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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:54 PM

With UN Vote, Bipartisan Senate Group Threatens Cutoff Of US Aid, Closing Of PLO Office

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON - A bipartisan group of senators warned the Palestinians on Thursday that millions in U.S. financial aid and its Washington office are in jeopardy if they use upgraded U.N. status against Israel.

Hours before the expected U.N. vote to admit Palestine as a nonmember state, four senators called the move provocative and introduced legislation threatening to cutoff U.S. assistance.

"The biggest fear I have is that the Palestinians achieve this status it won't be very long before the Palestinians use the United Nations as a club against Israel," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

The measure, which the lawmakers plan to offer as an amendment to a far-reaching defence bill, would cut off assistance to the Palestinian Authority if they file charges against Israel in the International Criminal Court. As a nonmember state in the U.N., the Palestinians could join the court and press war crime charges against Israel.


Read more: http://www.leaderpost.com/news/vote+looming+bipartisan+Senate+group+threatens+cutoff+closing/7628017/story.html

43 replies, 4647 views

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Reply With UN Vote, Bipartisan Senate Group Threatens Cutoff Of US Aid, Closing Of PLO Office (Original post)
Purveyor Nov 2012 OP
GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #1
iandhr Nov 2012 #2
bemildred Nov 2012 #3
bowens43 Nov 2012 #4
oberliner Nov 2012 #9
Chemisse Nov 2012 #17
oberliner Nov 2012 #35
Chemisse Nov 2012 #38
oberliner Nov 2012 #42
Posteritatis Nov 2012 #5
Purveyor Nov 2012 #7
Posteritatis Nov 2012 #8
freshwest Nov 2012 #15
The Old Creak Nov 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #10
magical thyme Nov 2012 #11
frylock Nov 2012 #12
go west young man Nov 2012 #22
leftynyc Nov 2012 #36
DeSwiss Nov 2012 #13
azurnoir Nov 2012 #14
bluestateguy Nov 2012 #16
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2012 #18
King_David Nov 2012 #26
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2012 #29
azurnoir Nov 2012 #41
AnOhioan Nov 2012 #19
L0oniX Nov 2012 #20
chuckstevens Nov 2012 #21
leftynyc Nov 2012 #37
byeya Nov 2012 #39
leftynyc Nov 2012 #40
EC Nov 2012 #23
Jefferson23 Nov 2012 #24
King_David Nov 2012 #25
Purveyor Nov 2012 #27
King_David Nov 2012 #30
Purveyor Nov 2012 #31
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #34
Freddie Stubbs Nov 2012 #43
blackspade Nov 2012 #28
David__77 Nov 2012 #32
FarrenH Nov 2012 #33

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:59 PM

1. Kinda hissy.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:01 PM

2. I would use the words stupid and counterproductive

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:03 PM

3. Always with the threats.

Don't these clowns ever think about giving themselves away? It's like they want to remove any doubt as to what the Palestinians ought threaten to do next.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:04 PM

4. Why does the US always get it wrong on this issue?

they should be cutting off aid to Israel...they're the bad guys in this conflict.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:22 PM

9. Israel is the bad guys?

Wow.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:52 PM

17. If they are not the bad guys, why are they afraid Palestine will invoke the international court?

All countries should be held accountable if they commit war crimes, not just the countries we don't like.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:39 AM

35. Because they don't believe they will be judged fairly

I do agree that all countries should be held accountable for war crimes.

Some might argue that the US ought to be on that list as well.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:43 PM

38. Israel has really dug its own hole in this regard.

Why would they not be judged fairly? Because so many people in that region hate them passionately. Why are they hated? Because they have behaved very badly for a very long time.

It's like a guy who says 'fuck you' to the judge, then whines that the judge is out to get him.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:59 PM

42. Lots of countries have behaved very badly for a very long time

I would argue that there are many countries that have behaved significantly worse for an even longer time.

Yet, for some reason, Israel appears to be especially despised by other countries and people in the region.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:08 PM

5. I'm surprised they aren't tantruming themselves into cutting off UN funding entirely. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:17 PM

7. Stay tuned... eom

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:21 PM

8. Yep. Though that would probably come if they somehow got in as a member state

I seem to recall that the US has a law on the books forbidding it from funding any organization that admits Palestine as a member, e.g., their cutting off funding to UNESCO recently.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:42 PM

15. They managed to act up on this, just as they shut off funding for autism under TRICARE:

Republicans oppose vote on UN disability treaty

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate plans to take up a U.N. treaty espousing equal rights for the disabled drew immediate opposition Monday from some Republicans wary of the treaty and asserting that the Senate should not be considering international treaties during a lame-duck session.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said that on Tuesday he would ask the Senate to consider legislation to ratify the U.N.’s Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

The chances of success are not good. It takes 60 votes to move a bill to the floor and a two-thirds majority to ratify a treaty. In September, 36 Senate Republicans wrote a letter saying they would oppose any treaty brought up during the lame-duck session.

On Monday Utah Republican Mike Lee, joined by former GOP senator and presidential candidate Rick Santorum, said he would “do everything I can to block” ratification.


From the thread by DonViejo:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014317645

The 'Pro-Life' party spreading peace and love daily. huh. And the red state GOP threatened to arrest UN observers on the elections. Their John Birch Society stance has never changed, but then the same goons still fund them.






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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:14 PM

6. What a sick

Fucking reaction!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:23 PM

10. Its black letter US law, just ask UNESCO

and this administration has followed it previously.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:32 PM

11. Schumer and Menendez

Quell surprise on Schumer.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:35 PM

12. why this fear of the ICC if israel isn't doing anything illegal?

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Response to frylock (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:31 PM

22. Good question.

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Response to frylock (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:16 AM

36. Because they wont be judged fairly

While the UN wrings their hands and tut tuts over the Syrian government murdering their citizens, it still manages to pass resolution after resolution about Israel. Why would the Israeli's trust an ineffective body like the UN? And this vote yesterday is more of the same - only now the Palestinians risk their aid being cut off.

But not to worry, I'm sure all the Arab states will take care of their Palestinian brothers - like they've been doing all this time.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:40 PM

13. ....

''All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.''~ George Orwell

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:40 PM

14. Chuck Schumer Bob Menendez Bob Barrasso Lindsey Graham are the 4 promoting this

and Chuck left little doubt about his feelings towards Palestinians a while back with this gem

The Palestinian people still don’t believe in the Jewish state, in a two-state solution. More do than before, but a majority still do not. Their fundamental view is, the Europeans treated the Jews badly and gave them our land — this is Palestinian thinking They don’t believe in the Torah, in David You have to force them to say Israel is here to stay. The boycott of Gaza to me has another purpose — obviously the first purpose is to prevent Hamas from getting weapons by which they will use to hurt Israel — but the second is actually to show the Palestinians that when there’s some moderation and cooperation, they can have an economic advancement. When there’s total war against Israel, which Hamas wages, they’re going to get nowhere. And to me, since the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas, while certainly there should be humanitarian aid and people not starving to death, to strangle them economically until they see that’s not the way to go, makes sense.


http://thinkprogress.org/security/2010/06/11/102026/schumer-strangle-gaza-economically/

The PLO recognized Israel and its right to exist on 9/9/1993

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:46 PM

16. Sour grapes

The UN had a vote, the US said our piece, we voted no, but the other countries out-voted us and we lost. So be it.

That is democracy, right? Retaliating because we don't like the outcome seems like sour grapes.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:58 PM

18. Oh no doubt - there will be plenty of Democrats who will line up with the Republicans for the cause

of making a just and lasting peace in Israel/Palestine completely implausible..no doubt about that...none at all

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:52 PM

26. I voted for The Democratic Rep and Senator and President ,

And proud of it.

Anyone who disagrees with them should have voted them out.

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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:28 AM

29. I voted for them too because the alternative is far, far worse

in spite of their morally repugnant position on Palestine. Voting for a progressive third party would only strengthen the Republicans and contribute to making matters much worse - on this matter and almost every other issue

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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:48 PM

41. well did you vote for Harper and Gillard too

I mean seeing as how your a world citizen and all

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:02 PM

19. Disgusting but not unexpected

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:23 PM

20. ASSHOLES! Call the f*ckin wambulance you cry babies!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:19 PM

21. Face Reality

Face the reality: The Palestinians are people who deserve a homeland and it time for the US to stop coddling Israel.

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:17 AM

37. Speaking of reality

A large majority of Americans (along with the President and Congress) support Israel. It's time for the small minority here to face that.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:47 PM

39. A large majority of the USA does not support stealing land; reneging on agreements; using starvation

 

as a weapon; and murdering children. Wise up.

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Response to byeya (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:22 PM

40. You're continuing

to behave like the Romney campaign and their unskewed polls. The MAJORITY of Americans see a lawless group like Hamas that calls for the destruction of Israel, rains rockets down on civilians and only see the Israeli's defending themselves. You can rant and rave and believe you're not in the minority on this issue but you're only fooling yourself. But feel free to live in your tiny little bubble - it did so much good for Romney.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:28 PM

23. Yet, for decades all I ever heard

out of both sides was 2 state solution...isn't this that? They have to be recognized as a state don't they?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:18 PM

24. Hey, don't hold back now, let your hypocrisy shine for all to see and so quick about it too!

Reprehensible position for them to take but not surprising.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:48 PM

25. "We are committed, Democrats''

"We are committed, Democrats and Republicans, to using every means at our disposal to ensure that this U.N. General Assembly vote does not serve as a precedent for elevating the status of the PLO," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

Read more: http://www.leaderpost.com/news/vote+looming+bipartisan+Senate+group+threatens+cutoff+closing/7628017/story.html#ixzz2Dg6haHGK

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Response to King_David (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:17 AM

27. "Committed" indeed... To AIPAC $$$. Thanks for the {{{chuckle}}} Most all know 'it is, what it

is.

Fortunately, the tide is on the wane of 'israeli first'...Congress.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:51 AM

30. 'AIPAC $$$' ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:56 AM

31. Indeed. eom

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:17 AM

34. I think someone may need to explain to Dave how Lobby groups operate...

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:21 PM

43. How much money to AIPAC donate to Senator Schumer?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:18 AM

28. Who cares if they press for war crimes charges?

If they have been committed they they need to be filed.
It's a two edged sword though.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 02:23 AM

32. ICC has no jurisdiction anyway, right?

Israel is not a party to the ICC.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:16 AM

33. It depends

From Wikipedia:

Territorial jurisdiction

During the negotiations that led to the Rome Statute, a large number of states argued that the Court should be allowed to exercise universal jurisdiction. However, this proposal was defeated due in large part to opposition from the United States. A compromise was reached, allowing the Court to exercise jurisdiction only under the following limited circumstances:

- where the person accused of committing a crime is a national of a state party (or where the person's state has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court);
- where the alleged crime was committed on the territory of a state party (or where the state on whose territory the crime was committed has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court); or
- where a situation is referred to the Court by the UN Security Council.

--- snip ---

Despite the fact that Israel has not accepted the ICC's jurisdiction, the PA has, some time ago. This could be read as exposing itself to being prosecuted under international law, or as a deft manoeuvre that anticipated its recent status upgrade.

Since the UN now recognises the PA as a state, and it is a party to the Rome Statute, the above provisions allow it to bring a case against Israel in the ICC on the basis of actions committed in the PA's nominal territory, under the second clause above.

AFAIK, most similar treaties require that member states implement their provisions in domestic law. The Geneva Convention, for instance, has the force of law inside the USA. Implementing these treaties often require additional processes within member states, such as passing acts of congress or parliament.

So countries that have ratified the Rome Statute will generally have some requirement in domestic law to enforce the decisions of the ICC, which could even include the requirement to detain an elected foreign leader should they set foot on a member state's soil. While the PA itself is obviously powerless to enforce any decision of the court against Israeli parties, such a decision might nonetheless have real teeth, thanks to domestic legal provisions in the 121 member states.

Both Israeli and Bush-era administration officials have cancelled trips to certain countries in the last decade because of charges being brought against them in those countries under domestic implementations of international law.

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