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Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:45 PM

Boeing Said It Will Deny Equal Pension Benefits to Married Gay Couples

Source: The Stranger

Today the Boeing Company told union negotiators that it would deny pension survivor benefits to same-sex married couples, even though Washington State voters decisively approved a marriage equality law earlier this month.

Representing 23,000 Boeing engineers and technical workers, Ray Goforth is executive director of the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA), IFPTE Local 2001. He was sitting at the negotiation table today—as part of ongoing talks over retirement benefits—and says the company's position "says to employees that they can be discriminated against based on who they are."

Goforth explains that his union has long sought equal pension benefits for same-sex domestic partners, to no avail. But since voters approved same sex marriage—establishing parity with married straight couples—Goforth re-framed the proposal to apply to all gay Boeing employees who wed. "Their answer was that they had no intention of granting pension survivor benefits to legally married same-sex couples because they didn't have to," Goforth explains. Boeing representatives told him that pensions are governed by federal law, which doesn't recognize same-sex marriage, thereby trumping the state law on the matter.

"We were profoundly disappointed to see that they would use a loophole to engage in institutionalized discrimination," Goforth says.


Read more: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/11/21/boeing-says-it-will-deny-equal-pension-benefits-to-married-gay-couples

58 replies, 8460 views

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Arrow 58 replies Author Time Post
Reply Boeing Said It Will Deny Equal Pension Benefits to Married Gay Couples (Original post)
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2012 OP
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #1
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2012 #3
HuckleB Nov 2012 #7
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #8
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #56
GodlessBiker Nov 2012 #2
pepperbear Nov 2012 #4
olddad56 Nov 2012 #5
Arctic Dave Nov 2012 #9
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #31
tidepooler Nov 2012 #40
sulphurdunn Nov 2012 #47
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #6
elbloggoZY27 Nov 2012 #10
Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2012 #11
jberryhill Nov 2012 #13
Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2012 #15
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #19
jberryhill Nov 2012 #21
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #22
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #32
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #55
alessiana Nov 2012 #12
heaven05 Nov 2012 #14
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #20
heaven05 Nov 2012 #42
glacierbay Nov 2012 #16
sakabatou Nov 2012 #18
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #33
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #17
silhouete2 Nov 2012 #23
evdebbs Nov 2012 #24
davidpdx Nov 2012 #25
Cha Nov 2012 #26
Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #27
DallasNE Nov 2012 #28
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #34
Marrah_G Nov 2012 #52
Science Geek Nov 2012 #54
LineReply .
blkmusclmachine Nov 2012 #29
Ash_F Nov 2012 #30
lunatica Nov 2012 #35
randome Nov 2012 #36
tammywammy Nov 2012 #37
randome Nov 2012 #39
tidepooler Nov 2012 #41
tammywammy Nov 2012 #44
mcgarry50 Nov 2012 #38
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #43
tarheelsunc Nov 2012 #45
former9thward Nov 2012 #50
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #46
Locut0s Nov 2012 #48
Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #49
MFM008 Nov 2012 #51
Politicalboi Nov 2012 #53
and-justice-for-all Nov 2012 #57
musical_soul Nov 2012 #58

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:50 PM

1. Is Boeing run by Jesus freaks...or is this just about being tightwads?

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:51 PM

3. More likely tightwads.

For example they want to offer an increased 401K benefit to new hires in lieu of a regular pension.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:07 PM

7. Greedwads!

That, and anti-equal rights freaks, regardless of the source of their bigotry.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:14 PM

8. Wonder how much Boeing stock Pastor Hutchinson owns?

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 09:48 AM

56. There may be contractual clauses at play here

Its a numbers game. Overhead rate and other costs all figure into it. If they cannot change those at this point, taking on more overhead hurts the bottom line.

IMNSHO, Boeing doesn't care one way or the other about gay issues, just the bottom line. When they can get it in their rates, I would expect it to be no problem.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:50 PM

2. Fucking bastards.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:52 PM

4. Another "DOMA Don't."

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:52 PM

5. maybe the government should deny a couple of military contracts to Boeing.

or any other corporation that discriminates against gay and lesbian employees.

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:16 PM

9. That's what I was thinking.

 

Slow down a few payments, postpone a couple of contracts and then have some go up for early renegotiation dates.

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:58 AM

31. Except that the government does exactly what Boeing is doing. You do know that,

don't you? Boeing can do this because DOMA is the law of the land. Because of straight people in Congress, including Democrats such as the adored Wellstone and other bigots. Clinton signed it into law, and it is the law.
You should be insisting that your government change the law. The discrimination against us is the fault of the law that allows this and much, much more constant discrimination against good people.
You are aware that no gay couple gets to leave behind Social Security survivor benefits to our spouses aren't you? Staights get to do that, of course. But we don't. That is 100% government. It is the will of the straight community that we all suffer to honor 'Sanctity' of marriages like Patraeus's or John Ensigns's. Very holy stuff.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:06 PM

40. Yep!

Not only that, but even when we live in a state that recognizes our marriage, we are TAXED on health benefits provided to our spouses. That is our government. It is considered part of our income. So, while other people often don't have to pay ANYTHING for having their spouses on their health insurance policy, it costs us hundreds of dollars in tax dollars.

The list goes on and on. Yes, great that states are getting on board, but our FEDERAL GOVERNMENT needs to get on the ball and eliminate DOMA. I'm hopeful that Obama will pursue this during his second administration, but it is precisely why I didn't vote for him in the election (that, and I didn't have to worry that Romney would win the electoral votes in my state anyway).

REPEAL DOMA to fix this shit.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:35 PM

47. Progress is being made

in these areas due in no small extent to the votes and goodwill of straight people. You do know that, don't you?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:02 PM

6. WOW

Terrible

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:34 PM

10. Intolerant

 

The FEDS should take Boeing to task and not renew any contracts.

Hey Boeing this is 2012.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:35 PM

11. I will fly on Airbus then

check your brand of plane before booking

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:43 PM

13. Yeah, go with the one that does the SAME thing AND doesn't employ union


Airbus picked Alabama for their US operations. So you prefer the one with the same policy on gay rights, but doesn't have to deal with a pesky union.

Makes sense.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:50 PM

15. Oh no!

then it I will have to drive! What about boats?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:58 PM

19. I've never flown since the airlines became truly cattle cars and

quite an unpleasant experience. I've run across many that have opted to drive than fly, in fact, sometimes it's quicker for some flights.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:03 PM

21. The San Francisco - Tokyo tunnel is a pretty monotonous drive, though

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:08 PM

22. LOL!!! Yeah, that scenery gets boring!!! n/t

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:06 AM

32. Of course Boeing policy is the policy of the US Government as well....

so boycotting Boeing while DOMA goes on would be an affectation with no value. Social Security survivor benefits are also denyed to gay couples, and that is done by 'we the people' using laws crafted by elected officials.
Of course, when gay folks say our rights are important, we are usually told we 'want a pony' and that it is 'poutrage'.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 09:45 AM

55. And you will be a more risk if you do...check the stats

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:39 PM

12. The issue for 2014

Looks like it's time for a presidential order until we can get a law through congress. Thank you Boeing for *the issue* we need to drive the #GOP out of office in 2014

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:48 PM

14. it's all about money

human hate and stupidity. always a shame. we are all the same on this little ball of spinning dirt. we make it so hard for each other. this is really getting difficult to deal with, the hate and stupidity because some just have to be better than others. pitiful. actually i am sick and tired of reading about the ignorance of human beings.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:04 PM

20. And I think the more crowded this dirt ball becomes the worse it's going to be. I often

think nothing short of intergalactic intervention will save humanity for the long term, because the STUPID on earth seems to be in exponential mode anymore. When it isn't eventual pollution killing of the species as we perish in our own garbage, people run around doing wars to kill off each other ... and if that's not enough persecution sets in. And on top of that the insanity of religion. Really, if one looks at humans objectively, we are a bunch of stupid fucks on this one little ball of spinning dirt.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 02:52 PM

42. no

problem with any of that.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:51 PM

16. I don't understand this

 

how does this hurt their "bottom line"? All Americans should be afforded the same benefits no matter what their sexual orientation.
This is just wrong in so many ways.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:57 PM

18. It doesn't hurt them in the slightest

Other than having to be non-douche bags.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:14 AM

33. Nice thought, but all gay Americans are denyed equal benefits in Social Security as

well. That is how straight American has long insisted we be treated. That is what DOMA is all about, and all that 'Marriage is a Sacrament' talk.
What Boeing is doing the US govenment is doing. It treats us exactly as Boeing does. Please understand that.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:54 PM

17. WHAT A BUNCH OF FUCKEN BULLSHIT! FUCK BOEING AND THE HOMOPHOBES!!!

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:19 PM

23. Oh please---they don't have to

because federal law trumps state law. I'm sure if it were the other way around they would be happy to provide this--right?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:30 PM

24. profits over people

 

There is a trial going on right now in the US involving Drummond Coal, headquartered in the third world state of Alabama. Drummond, it seems, hired the Columbian military and para military groups to kill union organizers in said county. Their reason: the union was organizing a strike that would reduce profits for the US coal giant. PROFITS OVER PEOPLE.
In Amerika, corporate chiefs are much more civilized; they deny rights and benefits to help grow profits. If they could, though, they would off, kill, gay partners to save a buck. Sociopathy wears many faces. leftbank

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:31 PM

25. Maddow said Obama had talked to some CEOs after the election

including Boeing's CEO. I wonder if they told him this was coming and what his reaction was if they did.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:38 PM

26. "Now Boeing is apparently performing some damage control." There may be HOPE!

Doug Alder, a spokesman for the aerospace giant, says that "any assertion that Boeing discriminates is blatantly false and, quite frankly, offensive." Late this afternoon, Boeing issued a statement to its employees saying it will assess the impacts of Referendum 74 on company policy. "Boeing is taking a closer look at how R-74 might impact company policies once it takes effect in December," the statement said.

Asked directly, however, if Boeing did in fact refuse these benefits at the negotiating table today, Alder evaded the question. "Nothing is ever final in negotiations until they're over," Alder told me. "What we said today is that are not currently addressed in the contract."


BEST of LUCK Same Sex Couples at Boeing!!

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:58 AM

28. That Is A PR Disaster In The Making For Boeing

It makes no business sense and it makes no sense from a public relations standpoint. What could they have possibly been thinking?

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:17 AM

34. The US government does the same thing, denies us equal Social Security benefits

Straights can leave benefits to spouse, LBGT people are denied that right. I do wonder what they are thinking, but usually they say it has to do with 'Sanctity' and 'Sacraments' and such.
But understand that Boeing is not doing a thing that your government is not also doing to innocent people and the government does it in your name.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:08 PM

52. They can get away with it

It's not like they are making products sold to the general public.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 02:05 PM

54. If 20% of all people just stopped flying...

...Boeing wouldn't have many orders for jets.


Just saying.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 05:09 AM

30. Boo

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:26 AM

35. I can see this headed for the Supreme Court

As it should be to be settled until the next backward kneejerk cycle comes around.

Even I can see this is a violation of equal rights with one eye closed.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:44 AM

36. They are on the losing side.

52 percent of businesses offer same-sex benefits.

Many Businesses Offer Health Benefits To Same-Sex Couples Ahead Of Laws

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Response to randome (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:38 AM

37. This is about pension survivor benefits

Boeing does offer other same-sex health benefits and has been for over a decade.

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:54 AM

39. Oh.

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:09 PM

41. Yes, and the federal government TAXES you for them.

If you attach your same sex partner to your health benefit program, you are taxed by the federal government as if it is INCOME.

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Response to tidepooler (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:23 PM

44. I know. It's yet another reason to get rid of DOMA. n/t

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:45 AM

38. welfare

 

another company that enjoys corporate welfare.

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Response to mcgarry50 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:01 PM

43. This country thrives on corporate welfare and it's a bunch of bullshit in USA, Inc. Citizens

are dumped on each day by corporate welfare and outrageous corporate entitlements. And people like Romney who are parasites on the US and don't want to pay their fair share.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:56 PM

45. There is no way this can be constitutional, either at the state or federal level.

It's discrimination on the basis not of marital status, but of the orientation of the marital status. While marital status discrimination is legal in many places, sexual orientation discrimination is not. Let them try to deny even one person, and there better be one huge lawsuit coming after them.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:01 PM

50. Not true unfortunately.

This is no law against sexual orientation discrimination at the federal level. Some states have such laws but most do not. There is no basis for a lawsuit unless you live in the few states that have such laws.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:20 PM

46. Well then, I'll be damned

if I'll buy one of their planes the next time I'm in the market for one.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:45 PM

48. WTF? How could this be about money? Seems more like a douche bag statement...

How many people could this possibly affect? It would have to be a minuscule percentage of their employees. It comes across more as a political statement which is a really stupid thing for Boeing to do.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 06:24 PM

49. That's it

I'll never buy another Boeing product again.

Seriously though, I can't see this policy lasting long now that other major companies are providing coverage for same-sex partners.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:05 PM

51. Hey Boeing Clowns

We in Wa voted for this, Its the law. Im not buying another airplane.... so there.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:42 PM

53. Hopefully

This will go to the Federal level. So cases like this sometimes are good for the cause. As long as our federal government can still deny benefits like SSI to living partners, we still have a ways to go. I know if I were married, I would want my partner to get the benefits they are entitled too. I hope Obama works on this for us.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:29 PM

57. Then they are breaking the law...

and should be slapped with paying damages for it.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:46 PM

58. He's scum IMO.

and you can't use the bible to justify this garbage. Nothing in the bible says that marriage includes pension benefits and all the other special rights we've been giving to married couples over the years.

I think this is more about the fact that people don't want to pay the dinero.

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