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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:50 PM

Hamas Kills 6 Suspected Israel Collaborators: Witnesses (GRAPHIC PHOTO)

Source: AP

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Masked gunmen publicly shot dead six suspected collaborators with Israel at a large Gaza City intersection Tuesday, witnesses said. An Associated Press reporter saw a mob surrounding five of the bloodied corpses shortly after the killing.

Some in the crowd stomped and spit on the bodies. A sixth corpse was tied to a motorcycle and dragged through the streets as people screamed, "Spy! Spy!"

The Hamas military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, claimed responsibility in a large handwritten note attached to a nearby electricity pole. Hamas said the six were killed because they gave Israel information about fighters and rocket launching sites.

The killing came on the seventh day of an Israeli military offensive that has killed more than 120 Palestinians, both militants and civilians. Israel has launched hundreds of airstrikes, targeting rocket launching sites, weapons caches and homes of Hamas activists, as Palestinians fired hundreds of rockets at Israel.



Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/20/hamas-kills-suspected-col_n_2165236.html

79 replies, 9232 views

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Reply Hamas Kills 6 Suspected Israel Collaborators: Witnesses (GRAPHIC PHOTO) (Original post)
Bacchus4.0 Nov 2012 OP
COLGATE4 Nov 2012 #1
Archae Nov 2012 #2
msongs Nov 2012 #4
Marrah_G Nov 2012 #9
aandegoons Nov 2012 #23
Welcome_hubby Nov 2012 #28
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #37
oberliner Nov 2012 #43
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #57
ronnie624 Nov 2012 #73
leftynyc Nov 2012 #3
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #39
CrawlingChaos Nov 2012 #67
Ed Suspicious Nov 2012 #5
mrf901 Nov 2012 #13
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #6
Marrah_G Nov 2012 #8
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #34
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #46
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #59
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #61
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #71
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #72
bitchkitty Nov 2012 #75
Marrah_G Nov 2012 #7
Ash_F Nov 2012 #10
zellie Nov 2012 #11
joshcryer Nov 2012 #12
leftynyc Nov 2012 #26
joshcryer Nov 2012 #53
happyslug Nov 2012 #14
David__77 Nov 2012 #16
happyslug Nov 2012 #58
cali Nov 2012 #18
happyslug Nov 2012 #55
cali Nov 2012 #63
happyslug Nov 2012 #77
cali Nov 2012 #78
happyslug Nov 2012 #76
hack89 Nov 2012 #42
happyslug Nov 2012 #54
glacierbay Nov 2012 #56
happyslug Nov 2012 #60
cali Nov 2012 #65
glacierbay Nov 2012 #68
cali Nov 2012 #79
glacierbay Nov 2012 #69
cali Nov 2012 #64
hack89 Nov 2012 #70
oberliner Nov 2012 #44
tabasco Nov 2012 #66
David__77 Nov 2012 #15
Socal31 Nov 2012 #74
azurnoir Nov 2012 #17
cali Nov 2012 #19
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #20
leftynyc Nov 2012 #27
azurnoir Nov 2012 #31
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #41
leftynyc Nov 2012 #62
azurnoir Nov 2012 #24
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #38
azurnoir Nov 2012 #40
zellie Nov 2012 #29
azurnoir Nov 2012 #30
aandegoons Nov 2012 #21
JI7 Nov 2012 #22
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2012 #25
cali Nov 2012 #33
Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #36
oberliner Nov 2012 #45
David__77 Nov 2012 #48
oberliner Nov 2012 #49
David__77 Nov 2012 #51
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #32
slackmaster Nov 2012 #35
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2012 #47
slackmaster Nov 2012 #50
Bradical79 Nov 2012 #52

Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:51 PM

1. Oh, those jolly, fun-loving Palistinian scamps

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:54 PM

2. And Israel is "just as bad?" Yeah right.

Arafat use to get rid of his rivals this way, too.

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:00 PM

4. israel uses american made jets instead of motorbikes nt

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:17 PM

9. Actually yes, I think they are

They didn't murder suspected " collaborators" but they do quite often murder innocent civilians.

Both sides suck, both sides have blood on their hands and the victims are the innocent men, women and children of Israel and Palestine.

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:20 AM

23. Yes... Yes they are.

So is America by the way.

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:35 AM

28. Ask the parents of the 27 dead Palestinian children

 

Do you think they'll say Israel not "just as bad"?

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:50 AM

37. I bet you miss the days of civilized rule in South Africa. Look at necklacing --and people say

apartheid is bad, when clearly the ANC are barbaric terrorists.

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:07 PM

43. I bet you are actively following the conflict in the Congo

Or do only certain conflicts hold your interest?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:47 PM

57. Conflicts committed by my government or actively funded by it get my top priority.

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:46 AM

73. If body count is any measure.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:59 PM

3. Don't expect a lot of comments

It goes against the moronic "Israel is the devil" nonsense so ubiquitous on this site.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:55 AM

39. Oh please there is plenty anti-Arab racism on this site that goes unchecked. More so than Israel is

the devil.

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:37 PM

67. +1000

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:02 PM

5. It's all fucking sensless. n/t

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:39 PM

13. not at all ...

 

get rid of your political rivals.
people you do not like.
crimeland competitors
any type of business competitors
anybody you don't like

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:11 PM

6. The Palestinians have to execute suspects without trial because their lives suck

and since its all Israel's fault, it makes sense that extrajudicial executions in the public square without a trial have to happen.

Got that?




(I don't either but that's how it will be spun).

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:15 PM

8. IMHO both governments are run by assholes.

They all have blood on their hands and seem to be willing to do nothing to stop it.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:45 AM

34. I bet you think necklacing justified the Apartheid regime in South Africa as well?

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:21 PM

46. Shameful disgusting slam. You can condemn Hamas' lynching without implying support for Israel

But you knew that.

This kind of ridiculous and over the top rhetoric only cements the impression that Palestinian supporters are being willfully blind.

FWIW, I haven't taken ANY side in this conflict. After almost 12k posts on DU, if I were a strong supporter of either side, it would be well known by now. I condemn the atrocities on both sides.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:48 PM

59. Yes you can, but your post didn't do that. And you know it.

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:02 PM

61. Oh FFS!! This THREAD is about HAMAS, not Israel, LYNCHING their own people!

NOT ISRAEL.

This is beyond ridiculous and into the seriously irrational that there's got be some kind of qualifier that has to be added to EVERY post, on EVERY thread on the I/P conflict.

Its sick.

Fuck that shit and if you DON'T know that then I feel very, very sorry for you.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:48 PM

71. You are the one who brought Israel into it not me. I merely responded.

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:52 PM

72. Nope. You're the one who seems to require a "purity test"

before critique.



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:34 AM

75. So why did you even bring it up?

You said:

and since its all Israel's fault, it makes sense that extrajudicial executions in the public square without a trial have to happen.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:14 PM

7. Disgusting

The killing needs to stop!

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:13 PM

10. Sad. If anything, this story shows not all Palestinians are unified on the rocket attacks.

And yet all Palestinians must suffer racist abuses.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:41 PM

11. And these are the people Israel

 

is supposed to make peace with.

The same scum that calls for Israel's destruction.

They are heinous.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:56 PM

12. Read up on the Second Intifada.

Explains how Hamas got into power.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:25 AM

26. So what?

Just how long are they (and you) going to use that excuse for their behavior. Just when can we expect them to act like adults with responsibilities towards their people? hamas is supposed to be the leaders. It wont happen as long as there are people like those here who treat the Palestinians as children.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:30 PM

53. Huh? I wasn't excusing their behavior.

You have an option, Israeli occupation of Gaza for an indeterminate period of time, or Israel leaves. It's a very very tough choice. Israel left. That's what we got now. Am I arguing for Israel to have stayed and blaming Israel? No, I am just telling people to read up on the history so they can understand the reality.

Hamas' support in Gaza is questionable, since they had to prolong the elections. They started this mess so that in the end they could assure their reelection. They were supposed to have elections this year but they pushed it until 2013.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:07 PM

14. And how do you handle traitors, where they are no prisons????

Remember, any sentence made by the GOVERNMENT OF GAZA, an elected GOVERNMENT, elected by the MAJORITY of the people of GAZA, has to be severe to show that helping Israel at the expense of the GOvernment of Gaza is NOT worth it.

All Governments handle traitors severely. Not dissenters, but traitors. The US executed the Rosenbergs in the 1950s for espionage, they were American Citizens who were convicted of spying for the Russians (whether they were or not is NOT a issue here), For that crime, they were executed. While technically NOT treason, the punishment was the same, execution.

Now, today, the US, like most countries just jail its traitors. We have not had to many, Pollard is the most recent, but he was just an Israeli Spy, Aldrich Hazmas Ames is another spy, the US plans to keep in Jail for the rest of his life.

More on Jonathan Pollard, who is still in jail (and in my opinion should die in Jail)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

More on Aldrich Hazmas Ames
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames

The problem with Gaza is how do you keep someone in Jail, in a country twice the size of DC for the rest of that person's life. Hamas managed to keep an Israeli Soldier in hiding for five years, so it is possible, but it took a lot of effort by Hamas, much more then what the US has done and will have to expend on both Pollard and Ames due to that fact Israel is over looking Gaza and made every effort to get that soldier free. Israel will do the same for any Gaza traitor, and such traitor will not have the value to Hamas as the Soldier they held for five years.

Thus, sooner or later you come down to the issue, what is the punishment the Government of Gaza can perform to these traitors, given that life imprisonment is not really an option? When life imprisonment is NOT an option, that leaves the death penalty. I don't like it, but I really do not see another option open to the Government of Gaza.

Remember, these traitors are telling the Israelis where leaders of the Government of Gaza are, where supplies owned by that Government is, and movement of any troops of the Government of Gaza, putting those troops at increased risk. No government is going to permit such reports by traitors without punishing them if they fall into the hands of the Government. Just because the US and Israel can imprison people for life, does not mean the government of Gaza can do the same. Thus why these people were executed. They are no other alternative punishment that the government of Gaza can do to them, thus traitors must die.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:43 AM

16. OK, come now - these would be lynching, not simply capital punishment.

By sanctioning the elections, Israel did appear to "pre-acknowledge" Hamas' authority in Gaza, but even if we were to agree that Hamas has sovereignty in Gaza, the manner of these annihilations is very crude at best.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:48 PM

58. Drum head Court Martial always are.

Remember a Drum Head Court Martial is when do to combat conditions it is impossible to hold a formal court martial, but at the same time the people in command can NOT afford to leave the person who committed a crime escape given the stress of the combat situation.

Now, in a proper Drum Head, the person who ordered the execution would be himself subject to a Court Martial when peace returns. The purpose of this second court martial is to give him a chance to justify his actions, and if he fails he is sentence as if he or she murdered the person who had been subject to the Drum Head Court Martial.

Technically, the US has never permitted Drum Head Court Martial, but Officers in command had done things close to it and been subject to court martial for they actions. At the same time, it has been rare for US forces to be under the stress that occurs in Gaza. Even in the Philippines campaign in 1941-1942, the US had time to hold traditional Court Martial, but then the no one was trying to commit treason for the Japanese had NOT had years to establish a spy network in the Philippines at the local level, while Israel has been doing so since the 1967 War when the Gaza Strip first came under Israeli Control.

Thus I do NOT agree with these Actions, I am just pointing out I understand where the people doing such actions are coming from.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:43 AM

18. Your post is deeply flawed.

A lynching is no way to handle anything. It's always profoundly sick, dear. And these people who were executed could well be wholly innocent.

Defending brutal lynchings on DU? How utterly vile.

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:39 PM

55. How would you handle a traitor? Someone whose action lead to deaths of your fellow citizens

Given the situation in Gaza? i.e. no prisons that can prevent the people the traitor betrayed your fellow citizens to from freeing the traitor? i.e. Death or leave them on the street to kill again? That is the choice of the present Gaza Government. I do not like it, but I understand it. Thus what is your solution?

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Response to happyslug (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:24 PM

63. you do not know that these men were traitors

My solution? A free and fair trial beats the fuck out of murder any day of the week.

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Response to cali (Reply #63)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:33 PM

77. There is NOTHING in the Article that said they did NOT have a Trial.

I suspect this was a summary Execution after a Summary Trial, but that is still a trial. Why else would they be moved to the place of execution and then an announcement made as to why they were being executed? If this was a lynching, they would have been killed when they were captured, that is NOT what happened here. Sorry, sounds like they had a "Free and Fair Trial" and lost and the punishment was death.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #77)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:33 PM

78. there is nothing that said there was a trial

not one article even hints of any such claim. Nada, honeypie.

It damn well was a lynching.

sick, sick dog shit you're spewing, pumpkin.

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:28 PM

76. Who Said this was a Lynching, sounds like a Public Execution after a trial.

Remember, the people shot where pulled out of a van, then shot in the head. It was announced at the time of the execution WHY the prisoners were being executed. Being shot in the head would produce a quick death, thus everything afterward was to dead bodies NOT to living people. It is the execution I am discussing, not what the people did with the bodies afterward.

Sorry, the fact that an announcement was made as to WHY the people were being executed makes the killings sounds like a quick public execution after a trial, not a Lynching. It probably was a Summary Trial followed by a Summary Execution, but even in a Summary Trial is NOT a lynching, the prisoner had the right to be heard and see the evidence against them. Yes, public execution is NOT how we execute prisoners in the US (At least one US Prison warden, who has had to attend executions have come out to make them public, so that the people can see how horrible they are and abolish capital punishment) but is it any more inhuman the how we execute prisoners in the US? You may not like the concept of a quick shot to the head, but it stops all nerve movement, so a body dies almost instantly. I would say quicker then if someone is given poison into his or her veins.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:05 PM

42. Built prisons? And courts if needed. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:35 PM

54. How do you do that, when Israel can break into them and free the traitors?

That is the problem, HOW do you keep such people in a Prison, when the people who they betrayed you to, can easily free them? Yes a Country that can secure its borders from outside forces can do so, but you can NOT say that about Gaza.

Thus your statement is nonsense, it is like saying someone does not have to drown if he just make sure he does not try to breath underwater, even if he is under water for hours. It is a true statement, but people need to breath. The same with prisons, they are ONLY good, if the state sending people to that prison is the only group that can leave that person out. In Gaza, the Government of Gaza does NOT have that power, thus the death penalty is all that is left.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:40 PM

56. This wasn't a death penalty

 

This was an execution without even so much as a trial and your excusing it is very telling and disturbing.
I'll be willing to bet that if Israel had done the same thing, you'd be the first one condemning Israel and demanding condemnation from the intl. community.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:53 PM

60. Who said they was no trial?

Yes, all we see is the execution, but I fully suspect some sort of trial took place, but outside any camera. In fact given that the four persons killed were DRIVEN to the spot in a van, taken out and executed on the spot, implies they had had a trial and all we are seeing is the execution.

Please note, the actual killing was quick and quick bullet to the head. The people around the area then mangled the dead bodies. Typical of people who accept that these people were traitors.

Just because they judge involved does not wear a robe or sit behind a desk, does not mean it is not a trial. Trials can be done with everyone standing, in an open field. Such Trials have been done in the past in almost every country in times of criss with varying degree of due process.

Again I like to point out, I do NOT agree with this method of trial and execution, but I also understand where they are coming from and why they are doing it. Gaza is NOT a place where normal rules of Due Process can be observed, especially when the Israeli Defense Force is firing weapons all over the place.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:30 PM

65. wow. sick and sicker.

You can bray all you wish, but you sure as shit are excusing the inexcusable. I refuse to do that- not with Israel's actions and not with this crime.

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Response to cali (Reply #65)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:06 PM

68. Thank you

 

I know we've clashed on Israel, but you are very fair, you criticize Hamas as much as you criticize Israel, I deeply respect that.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:35 PM

79. Thank you. My heart is with the Palestinian people

and I do see Israel as perpetrating an awful occupation, BUT that doesn't mean I'm about to condemn everything Israeli or condone or praise everything Palestinian.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:08 PM

69. Oh man

 

this is sick to the extreme. Do you hate Israel that much?

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Response to happyslug (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:28 PM

64. Actually, your statements in this thread are bullshit.

Israel cannot simply waltz into Gaza and free prisoners- nor do they have a history of doing so. Furthermore there are detention facilities in Gaza.

You're making up shit and you're excusing murder- not a DU value, honeypie.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:43 PM

70. Ok - so justice by street mobs is the answer. Got it. nt

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Response to happyslug (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:09 PM

44. "traitors must die."

Wow.

Your whole last paragraph is just a complete invention from your mind.

And you know that these people are traitors how?

What was the evidence?

When was the trial?

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Response to happyslug (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:31 PM

66. Defending summary executions.

Sucks to be you. Seek help.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:40 AM

15. This sort of mob violence is great against Syria though, according to the US.

In fact, suicide bombers are cheered on when the targets are government officials in Damascus. The US is playing a dangerous game of fomenting terrorism in the Middle East. It cannot be without adverse consequences both now and later, including for Israel.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:50 AM

74. Do you view all world news through United States glasses?

I'm just curious as to why some people cannot comment on any world happenings without a comparison to the United States.

I don't know you and have no reason to pick on you specifically, I just happened to read your post after reading several that sounded the exact same, and am astounded.

I just don't see why Israel or Hamas cannot be condemned without some false equivalency to the United States.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:44 AM

17. Hamas leader condemns killings of accused collaborators

The deputy chief of Hamas on Wednesday condemned the killing of six men accused of collaborating with Israel.

...................................................................

Abu Marzouq said the killings were "not acceptable at all" and that those responsible for the killings must be held accountable. The incident "must never happen again," he added.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=540443




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Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:44 AM

19. OH please. Hamas committed these murders.

That's called ass covering.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:06 AM

20. And with that comment, it's time for me to put you on Ignore. Doubt you'll

 

see this, as you claim to have put me on Ignore some time back.

On the off-chance you do see this, hope you have a nice life with your synecdochean fantasies.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:27 AM

27. Hamas just took responsibililty

for blowing up a bus in Tel Aviv. Would you like to defend this as well? And make no mistake, finding excuses is defense.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:37 AM

31. Do you mean me ? but thanks if true you just proved my point to cali n/t

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:04 PM

41. Oh, FFS, the Tel Aviv bus bombing was EMINENTLY PREDICTABLE . . . AFTER ISRAEL

 

KILLED PALESTINIAN CHILDREN IN A CIVILIAN STRUCTURE.

According to you, those were probably terrorists disguised as children.

Bet you dollars to donuts the Israelis who put Netanyahu in power didn't reckon that he would take actions that would place their lives at risk. There's probably some serious cognitive dissonance at work today. Just guessing.

So why don't you just fuck off back to the Realpolitik Hell whence you slimed?

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:08 PM

62. I see reason has left the building

Carry on with fantasyland. I'll be in the real world.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:36 AM

24. uhm all things considered why on earth would Hamas feel the need to arse cover for this?

I mean considering everything else Hamas has done why this? seriously
but more likely is that it's matter of authority, who's in charge here , if we don't kill'em no one else will, there are splinter groups running around Gaza that make Hamas look moderate by comparison like the Salafist one that killed Vittorio Arrigoni and I do not find it at all a stretch that under the current conditions they would assert themselves

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:53 AM

38. And how do you know this? I don't doubt Hamas would do this, but I question your special knowledge

on this situation. The situation in Gaza is basically chaos. I mean we can't even stop murders in Baltimore and yet in densely populated, isolated part of the world that's being starved and bombed you can't imagine any random acts of violence by desperate people that weren't centrally organized by some evil conspirators? You're kind of being a tad bit silly don't you think?

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:03 PM

40. Hamas has denied doing it and there are Salifist groups in Gaza

like Jahafil Al-Tawhid Wal-Jihad fi Filastin that are Taliban style crazies that believe Hamas is not Islamist enough, IMO this is precisely their style, not saying that Hamas would not have executed them but Hamas likes to go through the motions of a trial ect first

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:45 AM

29. LOL

 

Hamas commits this atrocity and when the press gets bad, they CYA.

These people in charge are terrorists murderers.

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Response to zellie (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:34 AM

30. see reply #24 get back to me if you need further explanation n/t

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:10 AM

21. Murder is murder

Whether it is over skittles, collaboration, or the chance you happen to be born in Gaza.


Edit to add this quote:

“You think the end justifies the means, however vile. I tell you: the end is the means by which you achieve it. Today's step is tomorrow's life. Great ends cannot be attained by base means. You've proved that in all your social upheavals. The meanness and inhumanity of the means make you mean and inhuman and make the end unattainable.”

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:12 AM

22. they showed the guy being dragged, it was so fucked up

fuck Hamas.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:06 AM

25. Could you imagine the African National Congress ever being violent against collaborators? Or any

other national liberation movement EVER being violent against collaborators? Why, this is completely unheard of!

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:07 AM

33. That hardly makes it better.

And these are alleged collaborators. It could just as well been a way of getting rid of rivals or had an element of personal vendetta. And even if they were collaborators, they got lynched. there are no excuses for this anymore than there are excuses for the bombardment of Gaza and others do it too is one of the worst excuses in the entire world.

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Response to cali (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:49 AM

36. The point is that most people here are all ok with the ANC, when in fact they did comparable or

debatably worse things than this. It doesn't excuse them I think executions are always deplorable and the necklacing in South Africa was particularly deplorable. But people on this thread on using this to justify Israel's actions or demonize the Palestinians as opposed to condemning a horrible horrible act. I mean using the logic of many on this thread we should have supported the apartheid regime in South Africa in the 1980s. Of course, I suspect at one point many of the pro-Israeli posters on this thread would have had advanced that argument had they been around (and remember a lot of "respectable" people did), but since it's now beyond the pale of socially acceptable sentiments they would never admit to it. I suspect history will look onto this situation similarly.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:11 PM

45. They held trials

How do you know the people killed here were actually collaborators? What was the evidence? Did they get to state their case?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:33 PM

48. ANC held "trials?" Really?

There was no distinction between the ANC "young comrades'" trials and mob violence. The alleged offenders were necklaced and burned alive before a cheering crowd. No doubt many of them were innocent. And I mean none of this to cast aspersion on the ANC and the revolutionary armed struggle it waged.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:43 PM

49. Yes

Trial exposes Buthelezi as collaborator

The trial of Magnus Malan and the other apartheid generals in Durban is revealing the extent of Mangosuthu Gatsha Buthelezi's sordid collaboration with the apartheid regime. It is now apparent that Buthelezi himself was part of the conspiracy to create apartheid-backed death squads.

Documents published by the Weekly Mail and Guardian reveal that the decision to establish hit squads was made by the State Security Council. The highest officials of the apartheid state sat on the SSC, including current GNU members deputy president F.W. de Klerk and mines minister Pik Botha.

An SSC subcommittee organised the training and arming of 200 Inkatha loyalists to counter the popularity of the United Democratic Front and the ANC's military wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe, in KwaZulu/Natal. The group was trained by the SADF special forces in the Caprivi Strip in Namibia in 1986.

Throughout the 1980s, as Pretoria stridently denied charges that Buthelezi was an apartheid puppet, documents show the SSC's operation was cynically code-named "Project Marion", derived from the word "marionette". The core of the project was to boost Inkatha and other black conservative groupings militarily and politically.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/11858

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Response to oberliner (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:54 PM

51. There were trials and there were "trials."

The ANC itself recognizes this. One can wave one's hand and say "these things happen in war," but is this necessarily so? The attack in Gaza could be very much analogous to the quite common annihilation of accused informers by ANC supporters during the 1980s.

http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=2639

On a number of occasions both the ANC and UDF/MDM leadership condemned violations of human rights which occurred as a result of "peoples` courts", "necklacing", and other unacceptable practices, whilst recognising the context in which such actions took place. The most cursory research of the 1980s press and the archives of the UDF will confirm this fact.

In its attempts to suppress the mass uprising, the state relied on an extensive network of secret informers, and constantly attempted to turn activists into a fifth column within the mass democratic movement. In some cases these attempts were successful; such recruits passed on information on activists to their handlers in the security forces: this resulted in lengthy detentions, the smashing of organisations, and many murders of respected leadership figures and other activists. Other informers became state witnesses, schooled to give false evidence needed to convict activists of treason, terrorism and sedition under the Internal Security Act. Yet others were recruited into death squads, or deployed as agents provocateurs who incited or perpetrated violence and then claimed to have been instructed by the UDF and /or the ANC to do so.

In yet other cases, young activists who wanted to serve the cause of liberation by participating in the armed struggle were lured into fatal traps by agents of the regime posing as members of MK or the ANC, who gave them arms and ammunition and wrong instructions on how to use them, or booby-trapped grenades which killed or grossly maimed the users. These cynical killings were then attributed to the ANC`s armed wing. These and other heart-rending experiences gave rise to a culture of extreme intolerance among the youth in particular for informers and those suspected of being agents provocateurs. In a situation where the forces of law and order were deployed to attack rather than defend the people, it is not remotely surprising that activists turned towards meting out summary justice against suspected agents, and those who openly sided with the apartheid system, including members of the hated security forces.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:55 AM

32. Never mind graphic photo

we had the video on UK tv news.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:46 AM

35. Barbaric behavior

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:30 PM

47. How does it compare on the barbarism meter with bombing the shit out of Gaza?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:52 PM

50. It's worse, because the thugs in this case killed their own people without even a trial

 

The bombing of Gaza is a response to years of missile attacks. At least it has a justification.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:57 PM

52. I feel terrible for Palestinians who just want a normal life

Not only do they have to worry about Israeli jets, missiles, and tanks, they even have to worry about being murdered by their own "freedom fighters". Wish I could think of a good solution to end the fighting permanently, but there's too much religious fanaticism and bad blood for me to even think of a good starting point. Honestly, I find it pretty amazing that negotiators can even get temporary cease fires.

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