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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:10 AM

Rep. Clyburn: Republicans Using ‘Code Words’ To Attack Ambassador Rice

Source: TPM



PEMA LEVY 8:52 AM EST, TUESDAY NOVEMBER 20, 2012

Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) said that Republicans who called UN Ambassador Susan Rice "incompetent" are using racial "code words" to attack the ambassador, during an appearance on CNN's "Starting Point" Tuesday morning. Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and John McCain (R-AZ) have said they would try to block Rice if nominated as secretary of state and 97 House Republicans sent President Obama a letter Monday saying they opposed Rice as well.

"You know, these are code words," Clyburn said. "We heard them during the campaign. During this recent campaign we heard Sununu calling our president lazy, incompetent, these kinds of terms that those of us, especially those of us who were grown and raised in the south, we would hear these little words and phrases all of our lives and we'd get insulted by them."

Clyburn continued: "Susan Rice is as competent as anybody you will find. And just to paste that word on her causes problems with people like Marcia Fudge and certainly causes a big problem with me. I don't like those words. Say she was wrong for doing it, but don't call her incompetent. That is something totally different. A lot of very competent people sometimes make errors."

Clyburn's comments came after a question about Rep. Fudge's assertion that the attacks on Rice were a product of racism and sexism.

-30-

Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/rep-clyburn-republicans-using-code-words-to-attack

70 replies, 8245 views

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Arrow 70 replies Author Time Post
Reply Rep. Clyburn: Republicans Using ‘Code Words’ To Attack Ambassador Rice (Original post)
DonViejo Nov 2012 OP
Lint Head Nov 2012 #1
lalalu Nov 2012 #2
DallasNE Nov 2012 #3
SteveG Nov 2012 #10
yardwork Nov 2012 #4
Nancy Waterman Nov 2012 #5
Igel Nov 2012 #11
efhmc Nov 2012 #6
John2 Nov 2012 #7
Rob H. Nov 2012 #8
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #9
heaven05 Nov 2012 #15
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #19
Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #23
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #30
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #12
heaven05 Nov 2012 #14
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #17
heaven05 Nov 2012 #25
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #68
heaven05 Nov 2012 #70
athena Nov 2012 #16
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #18
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #20
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #21
MzShellG Nov 2012 #22
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #24
watrwefitinfor Nov 2012 #33
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #45
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #34
kwassa Nov 2012 #35
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #46
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #54
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #60
BeyondGeography Nov 2012 #26
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #27
hughee99 Nov 2012 #28
heaven05 Nov 2012 #39
hughee99 Nov 2012 #44
heaven05 Nov 2012 #49
hughee99 Nov 2012 #53
heaven05 Nov 2012 #57
heaven05 Nov 2012 #29
kwassa Nov 2012 #38
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #42
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #48
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #58
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #59
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #61
kwassa Nov 2012 #66
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #69
noiretextatique Nov 2012 #47
Beacool Nov 2012 #32
kwassa Nov 2012 #36
Beacool Nov 2012 #41
heaven05 Nov 2012 #50
kwassa Nov 2012 #63
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #43
kwassa Nov 2012 #62
Jasonrc42 Nov 2012 #67
heaven05 Nov 2012 #13
Beacool Nov 2012 #31
kwassa Nov 2012 #37
Beacool Nov 2012 #40
Puzzledtraveller Nov 2012 #52
Beacool Nov 2012 #55
kwassa Nov 2012 #65
kwassa Nov 2012 #64
graham4anything Nov 2012 #51
Uncle Joe Nov 2012 #56

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:13 AM

1. They are using Lee Atwater's Southern Strategy.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:14 AM

2. Countdown to "uppity" and "affirmative action."

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:09 AM

3. McCain Is A Fine One To Be Calling Dr. Rice Incompetent

Considering that he graduated 5th from bottom in his class at Annapolis back in the day. But then it doesn't take many smarts to learn a few code words in an attempt to degrade those that are heads and shoulders your superior. It must suck being so bitter as McCain.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:11 AM

10. And don't forget his choice of Running Mate...

Jus sayin

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:13 AM

4. Clyburn is right, and by the way, he's a good guy.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:19 AM

5. There is a clear pattern

Obama, Holder, and Rice - all attacked relentlessly by the GOP. No one else in this administration has
had to endure the constant onslaught. Gee, what do these three have in common?

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Response to Nancy Waterman (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:28 AM

11. Warren. Duncan. Jackson. Napolitano. Sebelius.

But only when what's under their jurisdiction is topical.

Why have as few entities when it's so easy to multiply them?

We can call the principle Sic'm's Brush.

(The constancy of the assault on Rice is also less than clear.)

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:54 AM

6. She's an African American WOMAN but not their AF woman.

Seems to make a difference.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:01 AM

7. And

 

they want to know why African Americans continously vote for Democrats. Every baseless and vicious attack they make on African Americans will just expose the people in the GOP. Colonel Wilkerson was serious about what he said about the GOP. They have a bunch of racists in their Party and they will try anything to keep this President from governing. I think Hispanics and other minorities are starting to find out the samething African Americans found out about the GOP a long time ago. That is why they don't even try to get votes in the African American community anymore. It is my way or the highway to the GOP. Just put all 97 of the GOP representatives' names in print and with their reasons against Susan Rice and expose the racists to the whole Nation. I can kinda figure out who their supporters are too.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:06 AM

8. I had a Republican friend on Facebook complaining all the time

Last edited Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

this election season about Obama being "lazy," and his right-wing friends would fall all over themselves to agree with him. Ironic, considering that Dubya took record amounts of time off during his two terms--he even broke the previous record set by the GOP's patron saint, Ronald Reagan!

I find it ironic that McCain and Graham are spitting bile everywhere about Susan Rice's nomination, yet this is what they said about Condoleezza Rice's nomination and they both voted to confirm Condi as SoS:

Asked if then-Sen. Mark Dayton's use of the word "liar" was justified, Graham pounced.

"Yes, that's even more unfair. Because it was all in terms of weapons of mass destruction and misleading us about the war and what was in Iraq. Well, every intelligence agency in the world was misled. And to connect those two to say that she's a liar is very unfair, over the line."

Before the vote, McCain noted from the Senate floor that the chamber had enough votes to confirm Rice to the job, questioning why Democrats wanted to debate her nomination.

"So I wonder why we are starting this new Congress with a protracted debate about a foregone conclusion," he said, adding that Rice is qualified for the job. "I can only conclude that we are doing this for no other reason than because of lingering bitterness over the outcome of the election." (Emphaisis mine)


Graham also claims, "(E)very intelligence agency in the world was misled." Unless he means "misled by the United States," I have three words for Graham: Downing Street Memo. Rice was also saying deliberately hyperbolic things about Saddam Hussein and Iraq like, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud" in order to gin up support for invading. Stopping at calling Condi Rice a liar is ridiculously mild criticism, imo; the reality is much, much worse.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:11 AM

9. Racist -- and not just racist but sexist too.

It is so obvious.

But if you were to ask them for their opinion, they would deny that their statements about Rice are at all racist or sexist. They would tell you that they have three daughters and that their chauffeur is African-American and so are the people who live two blocks away.

That is the sort of unacknowledged bigotry that lives on in America, especially in the Republican Party.

And, of course, they all enjoy First Amendment rights as do we. Every one of us has the right to express our prejudices, pretty much what they may be, as long as we do it politely and non-violently.

The problem is that the whole country suffers when Republicans allow their prejudices and stereotyped ideas about race and gender to deprive us of leaders who have the ability and knowledge we need.

I think that Susan Rice might make a better ambassador to the world BECAUSE she is a person of color and BECAUSE she is a woman. That makes me prejudiced too. But then, my statement is based on the fact that Susan Rice's job in this world at this time would be, to a great extent to reach out to people of color and to women in other countries.

Did you notice that the leaders in Thailand and Myanamar were women? So is the leader of Germany as is the leader of Australia. And check on Bangla Desh. Britain and India and Israel have all had female leaders. We women are one-half of the world. We should be one-half of the leadership of the world. That only seems unreal to male chauvinist old-guys in the US.

No. Not every woman is qualified to lead. Think Sarah Palin. Less experience in the world than a twig that just fell off the tree. But Susan Rice has made all kinds of valuable friends at the UN. She would be perfect.

I strongly support Susan Rice to replace Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. She had nothing to do with Benghazi but was just repeating talking points. And, besides, "ticking-bomb-in-Iraq" Republicans have no business criticizing people who are wrong in assessing what is going on in a foreign country in turmoil.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:52 PM

15. +10000

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:03 PM

19. +100000000

great post.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:30 PM

23. +1

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:35 PM

30. Thank you.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 12:39 PM

12. Sorry, "incompetent" is now a racist "code word"?

Is that what he's saying?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:50 PM

14. aww

missed the election process and history did we?

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:06 PM

17. Actually yes, I did. Would you mind filling me in? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:07 PM

25. well really?

if you have 'on demand', the rachel maddow show, yes I'm in love wth her, say from sept 1st, 2012. Mitt the twit lost and amerikkkan history hasn't changed. sorry for being flip.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:25 PM

68. apparently some people don't grasp that "the southern strategy" is not just an election strategy

old white men attack the black female face of the administration by calling her "incompetent" and "not very bright" but in reality she is far more competent and bright than them and most of the people who vote for them. now every racist asshole in the universe, from those on facebook to those on faux news, can continue the meme of a dim-witted, incompetent black female appointed by the muslin kenyan socialist who is "not like us" and "out to destroy our way of life" rinse, lather, repeat. WHAT ON EARTH will it take for people to SEE that racism is ALWAYS a ploy used by republicons to divide and conquer. why does it always work so well?! and you count on a bunch of relativists from "our side" backing them up, every single time. as if all of this exists inside some vacuum away from voter suppression (that doesn't target people in beverly hills) and all the other racial ugliness we've seen since obama's first campaign. it is mind-boggling.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #68)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:26 PM

70. you

said it much better than I, especially the 'our side' bit. There are a lot of apologists for the right wing 'code word' racists on this site. And that's just one of their hypocritical 'sins'.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:12 PM

16. "Incompetent" is often used in sexist and/or racist ways.

When I was a freshman in college, some of my (male) classmates called our female physics professor "incompetent" (behind her back, of course). Now, as someone who later went on to get a Ph.D. in physics, let me say that no freshman studying physics, regardless of how smart s/he may be, is in any position to call someone who has a Ph.D. in physics "incompetent". Never mind that the female professor was much better organized, and much better at teaching, than the male professor she worked with. And I'm sure those freshmen knew nothing about the research she was engaged in.

What they were doing was clear: by calling our female professor "incompetent" within earshot of their female classmates, they were communicating to us that we had no place in physics. They wanted to pretend that their possession of a certain organ automatically made them better in physics than we would ever be, and automatically gave them the authority to judge anyone, at any level of accomplishment, who did not possess that organ.

When I heard the adjective "incompetent" used to describe Ambassador Rice, this is what I thought of.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:28 PM

18. A list of other racist code words

can be found here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/incompetent.

Synonyms: amateur, amateurish, awkward, bungling, bush-league, clumsy, disqualified, floundering, helpless, inadequate, incapable, ineffectual, inefficient, ineligible, inept, inexperienced, inexpert, insufficient, maladroit, not cut out for, not equal to, not have it, out to lunch, raw, unadapted, unequipped, unfit, unfitted, unhandy, uninitiated, unproficient, unqualified, unskilled, untrained, useless

This conversation is a bit silly. Is "incompetent" more or less racist that the rest of those words or phrases. Can we stack rank these words in order of how racially offensive they are?

We could say that McCain is nuts for thinking Rice is unqualified for the position, and that it is all based on racism. But suppose for a moment it was not about race and he truly thinks she is unfit for the job for some crazy reason. How about some suggestions on how he could say it without using racist code words.

I suppose that I've used a couple of ageist code words when I said "nuts" and "crazy"

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:08 PM

20. no, it isn't "silly"...you are trying to distract by claiming this isn't what it is

and you are failing miserably, btw she's not unfit for the job, nor is she incompetent or "not very bright," but because she is a black woman, mccain, and others can say crazy shit about her, and people like you will defend him...and it's indefensible. two words: sarah palin. this bs about rice is coming from the same asshole who picked the confirmed imbecile sarah palin as a running mate, and claiming she was up to the task of being vice president he should keep his stupid fng mouth shut after nominating that pea-brained moran.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:43 PM

21. I don't care if she is purple, and I'm not trying to distract

The word "incompetent" has no racial meaning. It means someone is not up to the job. Let's assume that Rice is absolutely up to the job and would be tremendous in the role. Some people seem to have a different opinion. If someone thinks she is incompetent because she is black, then that person is a racist. They're a racist whether they call her incompetent, clueless, unqualified, or whatever. If they are basing those opinions on the fact that she is a certain race, then they are racists and what they are saying is disgusting. None of those words themselves have any racist meaning to them whatsoever.

So....let's agree that she's qualified for the job...more than competent to fulfill the role. How about challenging McCain and his ilk to explain and defend their misguided opinion about her incompetence with actual facts. Wouldn't that do more to diminish his credibility that just replying with the silly claim that a word like "incompetent" has some inherent racist meaning.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:09 PM

22. Normally it wouldn't be. However under these circumstances,

It definitely does. Especially being used in this context. Dr. Rice was only doing her job. She has a PHd and is a Rhodes scholar. She has been competent whole career. So this is a racial code word/dog whistle.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:38 PM

24. do you know what meaning mccain attached to the word "incompetent?"

no...you don't. i agree with Rep. Clayburn, who grew up in the south, and knows exactly what racist code language is, and yes, "incompetent" is one of those racially-coded words, just like "lazy." i mean really...average asshole maccain has the fucking nerve to call over-acheiver Rice "incompetent" and you want to pretend it has nothing to do with her gender or her race? you must be a white male...because only a white male has the luxury of living in a gender/race neutral lala-land.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:10 AM

33. Like Jim Clyburn, I grew up in the south. And

about the same time period, only in a white family. And I totally agree with you and Clyburn.

In context, McCain's "incompetent" slur had and was meant to have only one meaning: "dumb fucking n***r".

Period.

Wat

In retrospect, it is possible that the term was fed to McCain by his cohort, Lindsey Graham, who knows full well what all the dog whistles are about, Graham having grown up in the same state as Clyburn and me.

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Response to watrwefitinfor (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:12 PM

45. thanks, bro

i am so happy these racist assholes are uncloaking for all the world to see

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:37 AM

34. So how many words contain a secret code?

During the campaign, over on freerepublic.com they were suggesting that Obama's use of the word "Forward" was code for socialism/communism. Instead of simply meaning a direction....as in going forward, not back...the accusation was that this specific word has been used in communist/socialist propaganda in the past and when used in a political context it had the same meaning today.

Should I assume that everyone on this board considers that a perfectly reasonable point of view?

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:46 AM

35. The code discussed here isn't secret

I'm white, and I understood it perfectly, as soon as I heard it. The words have to be understood in the context of the events that took place. It might take a certain knowledge of the racial history of the United States to understand this code, but that is all.

The events: the Republican loss of the presidential election which was completely unanticipated by the Republicans, and has traumatized them. The Republicans don't feel safe attacking Obama directly, so they find a surrogate that they see as weaker, and go after them. They choose another African-American, of course, and go ballistic over nothing. Last term it was Eric Holder, this term it is Susan Rice. Neither case had an ounce worth of merit to it.

it is very interesting that McCain has almost no one behind him in the Senate GOP to back his attacks on Rice.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:14 PM

46. freerepublic? yarite...

that's exactly the site i'd cite to advance a coherent argument...not.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:25 PM

54. I'm not advancing it. Quite the opposite

If there are people over on freerepublic stating that "forward" is a code word for socialism/communism, tell me how reasonable you think those people are. Is that a logical argument by which Obama's policies should be dismissed out of hand without examining their merits? Just because someone says a code word was invoked? But I'm not sure that's any different than what I'm reading on this thread, and it's no way to win the debate. It works in an echo chamber of like minded people, but its no way to convince others.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:32 PM

60. false equivalency

fox news and free republic claim a lot of things that aren't true. unless you live in a bubble, you might have noticed the racism espoused from the GOP, fox news, and free republic. i am not talking about something that i made up. i am talking about something that has been and is apparent, real and obvious. and not just in my twisted rw mind.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:24 PM

26. McCain said she was not very bright

If incompetent doesn't do it for ya.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:25 PM

27. I think Clarence Thomas is incompetent, and not very bright.

So am I a racist?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:15 PM

28. Apparently, you are. BTW, Rachel Maddow called McCain incompetent the other day.

While there certainly are "code words" that exist, claiming that "code words" exist has also become a handy way to inject race into an issue where it may not be readily apparent (or may not exist at all).

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:01 AM

39. yet

Last edited Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:29 PM - Edit history (1)

this society exhibits such extreme racial hate, bigotry and sexism, all the time, that one of color, gender or sexual orientation difference must be on their guard 24/7 to repel the forces of hate, that because of people like David Duke who have become more subtle and sophisticated (code words)in their hate but no less virulent. Racism is always a suspicion in this country. Hell I have watched the evolution of racial hate in this country. At least when as a younger person I was racially hated, openly, I knew where I stood with that person. Now they are smiling in your face and hating with words like, not so bright, lazy, shiftless which has always been used, expecting/getting 'free stuff' urban dweller and on and on. So you doubting/denigrating people who know these 'code words' exist just helps to muddy the water. Not helpful at all.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:04 PM

44. Sorry, I'm just tired of seeing any criticism of someone who's not a white male being dismissed

as racism... when it's a democrat. Dems had all sorts of bad things to say about Condoleezza Rice, Clarence Thomas, and more recently, Herman Cain, but for some reason, "code words" are only "code words" when directed at approved people (Democrats). Bill Clinton was called lazy and dumb by some repukes, * was called lazy and dumb by dems, you know why? Because if you want to criticize someones work the two EASIEST was to do it are to suggest that the person is not smart enough or not motivated enough to do it "correctly". This is true regardless of the race, sex or party of the person doing the job. It seems to me like if a "code word" is really a "code word" it would be somewhat consistent.

If a non-white male happens to actually be "not so bright" or "lazy" (two characteristics which you can find among ANY demographic), is there any way someone could call them out on it without it being a "code word" and the person being considered a racist? Clarence Thomas is regularly called out for being both lazy and dumb by people HERE on a pretty regular basis, should I consider all those people to be racists as well, or does that not count because he's a repuke?

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:23 PM

49. awww

are you tired? Better get some rest and maybe you'll feel better after a nap. I have my code words for all three of those individuals you mentioned and Dr, Rice, is light years, intellectually and integrity-wise, from all three mentioned. Ms. Rice did not lie us into a war like bush's rice, Dr. S. Rice would not have her nose stuck up Scalia's ass like c.thomas, and Dr. Rice has more intelligence in her big toe than Cain. If that's racist, I've been saying it for years and all my peers agree with me. Your example fails. Dog whistle racism is a rethug/bluedog/tea party, white male domain brought to us by the Southern Strategy. Tired or not, I will believe that this fact has always been true. Like I said, take a nap if you're tired. You are not being fair, just.......

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:10 PM

53. Awwww, is condescension far less persuasive than you hoped?

Does it taint what otherwise might be a reasonable argument and turn the reader against you immediately?

IMHO, if someone is a racist, you don't need their use of ambiguous and conditional "code words" to tell.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:55 PM

57. nope

and yes sometimes you do.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:22 PM

29. no

you're right. Ms. Rice, intelllectually, is light years from Judge Thomas. To be called 'not bright' by a white man of Mccains stature is definitely a racist and in her case sexist insult also. Thomas being selected for the SCOTUS was one of BUSH THE SENIORS more cynical appointments, seeing as Thurgood Marshall had passed and I saw him as one of the progressive beacons on the court. Bush the senior knew exactly what he was doing when he nominated this uncle tom clown. Flawed.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:51 AM

38. You might be.

It depends on HOW you are critiquing Thomas, and what justification you have for arriving at that opinion. If you have very little rational basis for such a decision, the irrational must be considered, and that can include racism.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:49 PM

42. So it could be racism, but you have no idea

1. Now we need to determine who it is the arbiter of what constitutes a rational objection to a candidate. Is an argument irrational just because I disagree with it?

2. "that can include racism". So it could include other things too? Then why do we jump to racism as an excuse to dismiss someone when we ourselves may have no rational basis for making the claim?

Note - I have not once said that I think Rice is in any way unqualified, incompetent, or unable to serve in that role. Seems like a pretty tough case for McCain to make. Let him make it...without hiding behind or distracting with charges or racism....and watch him fail. Seems like a much more honest approach.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:17 PM

48. racism isn't an excuse. if you have been paying attention

you would know that it is a strategy that has been employed by the GOP to garner the votes of some white people. it is commonly known as the "southern strategy." google lee atwater.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:07 PM

58. pretty sure we agree with each other on Atwater's strategy

I also know that false charges of racism are a disgusting but sometimes effective means of discrediting an opponent and their opinions.

I'd like to think that we could agree on that as well.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:28 PM

59. no i don't agree with "false charges of racism"

i think given the open displays of overt racism by the teabaggers and the GOP, in general, it's really disingenious to drag out that tired, old canard. i really have to question your motives in doing so.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:45 PM

61. so false charges are just fine

my statement that false charges of racism are disgusting stands on its own and is not meant to claim some false equivalency between that and overt racism. Armed robbery and shoplifting vary greatly in their severity, but I wouldn't think that would confuse us into thinking that it makes the lesser crime an acceptable one.

So you do not agree that falsely charging someone of racism would be wrong. OK.

My motive is to point out the kind of crap and off topic conversation we get into when race is injected into a conversation that it should not have been a part of. I'd like the conversation about whether Rice is qualified or unqualified for the job to focus on...whether she is qualified or unqualified for the job.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:59 PM

66. Racism wasn't injected. Racism is there already.

A number of us in this thread have already seen it. Sorry you can't, but that is the limitation of your life experience. People of color see it; they've experienced this low-key, indirect attacks on their intelligence and competence forever.

It is a pattern of behavior. McCain's statements are part of that pattern.

You can deny it's existence, but what you are really denying is that you yourself have experienced it, which is something entirely different.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #61)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:35 PM

69. false charges of racism is to racism what voter fraud is to voter suppression

the first thing is not a big problem, the second thing is. the first thing is used as an excuse to diminish the harmful realities of the second thing. the first thing is what the dominant group uses to silence minority groups claims of the second thing. as a democrat, perhaps you should be more concerned about...let's call it "unfair" attacks on a democratic politician, than how that attackers get categorized. what exactly is YOUR DOG in that fight? do you have some intense fear of being falsely accused of racism, and if so, how do you think that will impact you? the impact of all of this on mccain and graham will be ZERO...except they might raise a few more dollars for their warchests because the people they are speaking to AGREE with what they are saying.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:16 PM

47. no...but rice is bright and competent

and mccain would probably defend the incompetent, ethically-challenged thomas, since he is one of "their blacks," to quote the detestable ann coulter. according to conservatives, "their blacks" are independent thinkers, while the 99.99% of black who vote for and support democrats are "brainwashed."

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:32 PM

32. Apparently so................

Funny how no one mentioned "code words" when Democrats went after Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. Don't get me wrong, I opposed these two vehemently, but I hate hypocrisy.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:48 AM

36. What hypocrisy?

point out exactly where code words existed in the Democrats' attack on Clarence Thomas, for instance.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:41 AM

41. Since when is the word "incompetent" a code word for anything?

Please, this habit of finding "code words" on any attack by the opposite side waters down instances of true racism. The Republicans would have gone after anyone who went on the networks that Sunday blaming a video for the Benghazi attack. Do you think that a public servant should be exempt of criticism if they happen to be female and a minority? I don't, I had no problem speaking against Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:25 PM

50. ???

"waters down"??? No it doesn't.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:34 PM

63. Since forever.

It is not about being exempt from criticism, it is HOW the criticism is made, a point you clearly don't understand.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:01 PM

43. How about all the racism toward him today.

Search for the following on Google:

"clarence thomas" incompetent

Over 1.5 million results. Maybe, just maybe, some of those criticisms of Thomas have some real merit and thought behind them. Maybe not. But I won't read any now that I know they are based on racism. Though it does kind of frustrate me that defenders of Thomas get to hide behind that word.

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Response to Jasonrc42 (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:33 PM

62. who is hiding from anything?

I frankly think you, mister 14 posts, are a troll.

Read whatever you like. No one is restricting you in any way.

Even if your logic is faulty.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:17 AM

67. that's fair

I get it. My being new here makes my sin of challenging conventional wisdom a much more grievous offense. I'll vow for now not to offer any contrary opinions and only voice agreement on all threads until I reach the required minimum number of posts.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:46 PM

13. 'code words'

always used to describe minority persons. lyinaynryan using 'urban vote' code word for the reason for their nov 6 defeat. 'lazy, not so bright in relation to someone of brown skin means stupid nword to them. The right in this country will remain racist/sexist idiots until they go the way of the Whig party.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:28 PM

31. Well, that was expected.

When our side strongly opposed Condi Rice, did Clyburn hear "code words" too? I doubt it.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:49 AM

37. So, you are denying that code words exist?

(edited for clarity)

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Response to kwassa (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:37 AM

40. I'm denying that Graham, McCain, et al. are going after Rice because she's AA and female.

They are going after her because she was the face of the administration that Sunday. If it had been Axelrod or some other white guy, they would be going after him.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:36 PM

52. Wow, a reasonable person still on DU!

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:33 PM

55. Well, yeah.

There's always been too little objectivity around here.





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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:10 PM

65. you mean, someone that agrees with YOUR viewpoint.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:09 PM

64. You're wrong. They wouldn't be calling Axelrod incompetent and not very bright.

They won't do that to a fellow white male.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:28 PM

51. Yup. Another lyncing of another Black American.

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:41 PM

56. I disagree with them but I don't view the word "incompetent" as a racist code word, Bush

gave new meaning to the word and I can't count the number times I used that adjective to describe him or his maladministration.

Having said that, I believe Rice would make an excellent Secretary of State and she is most competent to handle the responsibilities of that office.

Thanks for the thread, DonViejo.

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