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Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:55 PM

Feds Come Down Hard on Spill; BPs $4.5 Billion Plea Includes Manslaughter...

Source: Huston Chronicle

BP's felony plea agreement to settle manslaughter, obstruction and securities charges for $4.5 billion, and an indictment that could send three employees to prison for decades, combined for a one-two punch by the government that puts an exclamation point on fallout from the deadly 2010 Gulf of Mexico rig blast and oil spill.

A criminal complaint filed Thursday by the Justice Department singled out BP well-site leaders Donald Vidrine and Robert Kaluza for the failure of a pressure test on BP's blown-out Macondo well, saying the "negligent conduct of defendant BP" through the actions of the two men "proximately caused the death of" 11 rig workers.

A former BP executive, David Rainey, also was charged. He is accused of providing government officials estimates of how much oil was spilling that were much lower than what the company actually knew at the time.

A former BP engineer previously was charged with obstruction, accused of deleting text messages about the spill flow rate...


Read more: http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/Feds-come-down-hard-on-spill-BP-s-4-5-billion-4042439.php

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Reply Feds Come Down Hard on Spill; BPs $4.5 Billion Plea Includes Manslaughter... (Original post)
Indi Guy Nov 2012 OP
dsc Nov 2012 #1
OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #4
freshwest Nov 2012 #8
dsc Nov 2012 #9
OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #11
Xipe Totec Nov 2012 #2
GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #3
DreamGypsy Nov 2012 #5
Hekate Nov 2012 #6
RoccoR5955 Nov 2012 #7
marmar Nov 2012 #10
Flying Squirrel Nov 2012 #21
onethatcares Nov 2012 #12
Orrex Nov 2012 #13
CountAllVotes Nov 2012 #14
triplepoint Nov 2012 #15
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #16
leftyohiolib Nov 2012 #17
bahrbearian Nov 2012 #18
Earth_First Nov 2012 #19
Ash_F Nov 2012 #20

Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:56 PM

1. I think it should be felony murder

we need one gutsy prosecutor and someone gets life in prison.

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Response to dsc (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:03 PM

4. Levels of mens rea.

http://nationalparalegal.edu/public_documents/courseware_asp_files/criminalLaw/basicElements/ModelPenalCodeMensRea.asp

1. Purpose

A person acts purposefully (intentionally) if he acts with the intent that his action causes a certain result. In other words, the defendant undertakes his action either intending for, or hoping that, a certain result will follow.

2. Knowledge

A person acts knowingly if he is aware that his conduct will result in certain consequences. In other words, a person acts knowingly if he is aware that it is practically certain that his conduct will cause a specific result.

3. Recklessness

A person acts recklessly if he is aware of a substantial risk that a certain result will occur as a result of his actions. The risk must be substantial enough that the action represents a gross deviation from what a reasonable law abiding person would do.

The difference between recklessness and knowledge is that where a person acts knowingly he acts with the certainty that a certain result will follow from his actions. However, where a person acts recklessly, the person does not know for sure that a specific result will follow. Rather, he only knows that there is a substantial risk that the result will follow.

4. Negligence

A person acts negligently if they should have been aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a certain consequence would result from their actions. Although the level of risk is the same for both recklessness and negligence, the difference between the two is that with recklessness, the actor must be aware of the risk involved with her actions, whereas, for negligence, the actor is not aware of the risks but should have known what those risks were. In other words, where Wilma sets the bomb off to go at 8:30, knowing that there is a risk that someone might get killed, she has acted recklessly. However, if for some reason, she doesnt recognize that someone might get killed, she has acted negligently because a reasonable person would be aware that someone could get killed if they were to put a bomb on an airplane.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:24 PM

8. I've seen 3) and 4) used to bring about changes in behavior.

I went under oath on a case before it was going to court with the attorneys. defendents and plaintiffs . They were all trying to shuffle the blame until I pulled out proofs of their willful recklessness after being repeatedly warned.

They had done what they did with foreknowledge to cut costs and advance their careers. They were disregarding the pain they were causing until iot blew up in their face. As soon as the attorney for the plaintiffs sent tmy papers to be copied and they was passed around, defendents took one look, folded and settled immediately.

If only people would do their work with integrity and not avarice and venality, many things could be avoided, a lot of lives saved. BP has earned whatever is coming to them. They'll survive.

If Romney had been elected, this would not be happening. I look forward to seeing an continued cleansing of this corruption by corporations and others ruining the lives of others so they could play masters of the universe.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:26 PM

9. there are plenty of people serving life sentences for driving to robberies where a death occured

I think that is about the same as what these people did.

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Response to dsc (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:45 PM

11. Yeah, but those people were poor

and did not require their lives back in order to participate in yacht races.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:58 PM

2. Let's see if they start singing like canaries now and pointing fingers upstairs. nt

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:03 PM

3. That's equivalent to a $10000 fine for manslaughter ...

For an average American.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:05 PM

5. Oh, they "Come Down Hard", do they...

Check out Thom Hartmann's view of the punishment, posted earlier today:

Thom Hartmann: BP...How 'Big Oil' Got Away with Murder http://www.democraticunderground.com/101780648

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:09 PM

6. If corporations are people, my friend, where's the prison sentence?!

I'm waiting....

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:13 PM

7. I'll believe that corporations are people

When Louisiana or Texas gives the death penalty to BP and Exxon!

They didn't come down hard. This silly fine is a mere slap on the wrist!

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:38 PM

10. $4.5 Billion is a joke.


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Response to marmar (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:29 PM

21. That's like $1

For every year the solar system has existed.. coincidence? Hehehe

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:54 PM

12. If corporations are people

it's time for the entire upper echelon to go to jail for manslaughter or murder. I'm no lawyer and don't play one on teevee, but justice must be served.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:00 PM

13. Ain't that the goddamn truth!

Imagine that some guy from the inner city had killed a dozen people and caused billions of dollars in damage to the Gulf. Do you suppose he'd get off with a "tsk tsk" and a fine that amounts to a fraction of his annual earnings?

Bullshit!

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:36 PM

14. ...



& recommend.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:16 PM

15. phony wayward: "I just want my life back!"

 



Why is this fucker STILL NOT INCARCERATED?



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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:26 PM

16. I wonder when and how it will be paid. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:42 PM

17. they have 5 years to pay it, they pull in about 4.5 bil a quarter so the feds

really didnt come down on them very hard at all.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:59 PM

18. In other words they got away with murder and paid a parking ticket.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 08:16 PM

19. Not nearly enough...

This is an ecological catastrophe beyond comprehension which not only caused the untimely deaths of 11 BP employees, but the death and damage to ecosystems in the gulf region for generations.

The monetary punative damages are a fucking joke.

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Response to Indi Guy (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 08:16 PM

20. Finally. Some justice.

reccing

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