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Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:11 PM

56% of Britons would vote to quit EU in referendum, poll finds

Source: The Observer (UK)

Well over half of British voters now want to leave the European Union, according to an opinion poll that shows anti-EU sentiment is sweeping through all three main political parties.

The Opinium/Observer survey finds that 56% of people would probably or definitely vote for the UK to go it alone if they were offered the choice in a referendum. About 68% of Conservative voters want to leave the EU, against 24% who want to remain; 44% of Labour voters would probably choose to get out, against 39% who would back staying in, while some 39% of Liberal Democrats would probably or definitely vote to get out, compared with 47% who would prefer to remain in the EU.

The findings will make sobering reading for all three major parties, which are at risk of losing support to the buoyant anti-EU party Ukip – now two points ahead of the Lib Dems on 10%.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/eu-referendum-poll

29 replies, 3763 views

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Reply 56% of Britons would vote to quit EU in referendum, poll finds (Original post)
alp227 Nov 2012 OP
MisterJones Nov 2012 #1
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #2
MisterJones Nov 2012 #3
bossy22 Nov 2012 #8
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #9
Hav Nov 2012 #10
Ashened Nov 2012 #18
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #23
Hav Nov 2012 #27
Drahthaardogs Nov 2012 #14
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #15
Drahthaardogs Nov 2012 #16
pampango Nov 2012 #4
freshwest Nov 2012 #5
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #6
freshwest Nov 2012 #7
T_i_B Nov 2012 #25
Ter Nov 2012 #11
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #17
Ter Nov 2012 #21
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #24
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #26
onehandle Nov 2012 #12
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #13
ZombieHorde Nov 2012 #20
BooScout Nov 2012 #19
madville Nov 2012 #22
pampango Nov 2012 #29
burnsei sensei Nov 2012 #28

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:47 PM

1. Good

nt.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:47 PM

2. sad sad sad

especially as the UK has the most to gain from EU membership;she is the only serious challenger to Berlin, and the rest of Europe will want someone to challenge German domination. If London pulls out, do not expect paris to take upthe slack, as many French, on both right and left, are angry with the EU.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:53 PM

3. The EU is a flawed concept and its disintegration is nearing the point of inevitability.

nt.

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Response to MisterJones (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 07:44 PM

8. I wouldnt say the EU is flawed

just the concept of the "Euro". without a unified fiscal authority you cannot effectively have a unified monetary authority

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Response to bossy22 (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 07:54 PM

9. I am no fan of London

I watch BBCAmerica, read the Guardian, and am admittedly an Anglophile, which are all reasons I despise the Tories. All the same, if either Lodon or Paris bail, there are only a few possible ends:

1) Germany uses the leverage and we have a de facto fourth Reich, where Berlin runs the show. I realize Germany is not the abomination it was under Hitler, but sorry, I still see the new 4th reich/Holy Roman Empire as good, as it is the champion of austerity. This is sad considering that they grew because they rejected austerity, and built what the right would call a nanny state, but one that did indeed keep the trains on time despite that.

2) the whole EU implodes, not good for the world, especially as it would throw the finances of the world helter into a tailspin. The only hope for a united Europe rests, ironically enough, with the Russians, and frankly, Comrade Putin does not need them. He also remembers when they bathed in the blood of the dying bear, hiding behind the eagle's wings.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:03 PM

10. Seriously,

I donīt know where this theory comes from that Germany wants domination over the other European countries. Again and again one hears comparisons to the Nazis and accusations they want the 4th Reich. Itīs complete bs.
Yes, terms are dictated concerning financial issues but is it an alternative that certain countries just continue with their policies that caused their problems and rely on other countries to bail them out that do a better job?
What I rather see is politicians who have to answer to the people whose votes they need. And they need the people to believe them that their money wonīt be spend endlessly if these countries arenīt willing to make changes. Iīm not very optimistic that these current programs primarily aimed at cutting spending will help, but it would be impossible to justify spending so much money if these countries could just go on as if everything is ok. It just wonīt work.

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Response to Hav (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 02:46 PM

18. How about...

Instead of thinking of Germany as potential Nazi supervillians, we think of them as people with their own interests and motivations.

Of course they want domination over the other European countries, and they will take it if they can get it.

So would France. So would Britain. So would Italy.

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Response to Ashened (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:40 AM

23. Of course they do

and it is never wrong to want domination over other nations, right? Especially when it has resulted in rather bad results for your nation in the last century. It might be one thing to defend themselves against London, Paris or Rome, it is another to want to rule them.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:59 AM

27. Of course, they don't

Again, your misconceptions that they want to rule all of Europe or any country in the EU aren't based on facts. They also have no intentions to rule France or the UK (who seriously believes that??) nor do they need to defend themselves against them. Contrary to your insinuations, they have indeed learnt from the past as have most of the other European countries. Your fears, that they might "want to rule them", is simply a fantasy. There is absolutely nothing that could lead one to believe that they, or France or the UK want to make Greece a part of their own country, for example, or any other country in Europe. What would their be to gain? Greece is burning through 100s of billions of Euros. Sure, it makes sense that Germany wants a greater part of that mess to waste even more money.

What is certainly true is that Germany and all the other countries that are asked for their money, have their interests and their ideas, mostly concerning economic issues. One of these interests is, that they hope not to spend their taxpayers money again and again for the failed systems in other countries.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:33 AM

14. The problem with the EU is that they let EVERYONE in.

They should have demanded that the Brits adopt the Euro as part of membership. They should have never let a bunch of countries in.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:54 AM

15. UK joined the EU in 1973.

The Euro didn't exist until 1999. There was at that point no provision for making any country join the Euro. Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies too amongst others.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:57 AM

16. Yeah, and they shouldn't.

Adoption of the Euro should have been mandatory.

And on edit:

Great Britain has pretty much reaped the benefits without having to deal with the downsides. Italy, Germany, France, and the rest of the founding members are screwed because they carry the dead weight countries while economic giants like the UK do not adopt the Euro. It is pure bullshit.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:56 PM

4. Not surprising - Conservatives are the group that most wants to leave the EU (68%-24%).



Conservatives everywhere tend to want less openness and cooperation between countries. They are more supportive of nationalism and building walls between nations and peoples.

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Response to pampango (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:08 PM

5. +1,000 to what you said.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:31 PM

6. In effect

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 04:51 AM - Edit history (1)

only 16.25% of the electorate were in effect responsible for returning the 306 Conservative MPs. Maybe that should be put in context with what is claimed to be the likely outcome of a referendum instead spinning an apparent Conservative issue. I've no doubt that most here in the UK who are aware of the situation are able to grasp why for example 40% of the EU budget is used to finance French farming subsidies. There are many issues and doubtless most would vote one way or the other with their own selfish interests at heart.

Origin of 16.25% figure here : http://www.ptolemy.co.uk/uncategorized/elections-journalistic-rhetoric-electoral-reform

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:41 PM

7. Agreeing less with the numbers or individual reasons, but on conservatives of our own kind. Eeww!

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Response to pampango (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:46 AM

25. Opposition to the EU is a big thing amongst right-wingers

Some on the soft left are all in favour of the EU, but the pro-EU camp doesn't make its arguments very well at all.

There's also plenty on the left who dislike the EU. It's not really a left/right issue, although the tea party-esque idiocy of UKIP doesn't help.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:22 PM

11. Now they're talking

 

They should have never joined that NWO nightmare in the first place.

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Response to Ter (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:20 PM

17. What do you think was wrong with it, when the UK joined?

It is just entities joining countries in general that you object to, eg NATO or the United Nations? Or was there something specifica about the European Economic Community you didn't like?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:16 PM

21. For a Democrat, I'm a massive believer in sovereignty, for countries as well as states

 

NATO and the UN were necessary at one time, and may still be. But I believe in country's rights. It would never be tolerated here. Imagine a NA Union and them making rules that the US had to follow? It's not even allowed in our constitution, thank God.

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Response to Ter (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:41 AM

24. Be careful

Dixie thinks we did exactly that.

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Response to Ter (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:35 AM

26. Why were borders drawn at the end of World War Two the best place to define rights?

It seems very strange to give a country, which has borders typically set by the conclusion of a war, 'rights', rather than the people in the country. Membership of the larger entity has meant that people in the countries have gained further rights, that their own country might not have granted them. Freedom from the death penalty, for instance, which must be abolished by a member of the EU.

Your US constitution, of course, sets rules for the states to follow. Of course, 'Novus Ordo Seclorum', from the US Great Seal, appears to be what inspired the 'New World Order' phrase that you dread so much. Yet you thank God for your constitution, which sets rules for over 300 million people. Why is that so different from an EU with rules about what the individual countries can do (not that they're very proscriptive - the EU contains both monarchies and republics, for instance, each with their own military).

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:42 PM

12. They don't use the EU currency. This is Tory bullshit.

The EU must survive.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 04:48 AM

13. What's the currency got to do with the issue ?

Sweden and Denmark amongst others still uses their own currency.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:10 PM

20. Why do you think the EU must survive?

I am not seeing a lot of pro-EU posts here, and I would like to consider your opinion.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:53 PM

19. I think it's actually probably a higher precentage of that....

Most people I know would vote to leave the EU in a heartbeat.....and most people I know are Labour voters. People are fed up with the France's abuse of subsidies, bailing out economies such as Greece who have lived with a black market economy for years hiding income and not paying taxes.

The only reason the EU hasn't totally sunk is because France and Germany are the big lenders and are desparate not to have it sink.

The EU was wonderful in theory.........but it get's old subidising other countries over the decades.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:34 AM

22. The one's with the money always want to leave

I'm sure the UK and Germany are eager to distance themselves.

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Response to madville (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:36 PM

29. Actually Germany is (along with France) one of the EU's biggest supporters. And Germany has more

money then the UK.

It's more a matter of political philosophy rather than money. As the poll in the OP shows, conservatives tend to value national sovereignty over international cooperation.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:16 AM

28. I felt that the idea of a European Community

was much wiser than the European Union.
In a community people compromise.
In a union, it's either go along or swallow your bitterness.
Bad things happen when Europeans harbor a sense of wrong.
The Eurozone ends badly.
Europeans have had extended periods of peace.
In this one, the Germans truly dominate.
Will it end in roses and chocolate for all? Oh, I think not.


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