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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:51 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (anobserver2) on Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:17 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
anobserver2 Nov 2012 OP
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #1
Mr.Bill Nov 2012 #2
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #4
Ash_F Nov 2012 #3
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #19
riverwalker Nov 2012 #5
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #6
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #7
Ford_Prefect Nov 2012 #8
Iggy Nov 2012 #9
mzteaze Nov 2012 #10
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #11
Lurks Often Nov 2012 #12
grantcart Nov 2012 #13
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #15
grantcart Nov 2012 #16
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #17
grantcart Nov 2012 #18
uncle ray Nov 2012 #14

Response to anobserver2 (Original post)


Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:55 PM

2. I can see this policy changing very soon. n/t

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #2)


Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:55 PM

3. The upscale social elite are closely tied in with military brass.

The generals run in that crowd. If there was anything take away from this scandal, it's that revelation. Officers are closer to the 1% than the troops.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:39 PM

19. Perfumed princes indeed n/t

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:04 PM

5. excellent questions

I had no idea how strategic this base was until I googled. To think these nitwits had a free pass is horrifying.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #5)


Response to riverwalker (Reply #5)


Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:36 AM

8. The "friends" of top brass have always had special access of one kind or another to military sites.

That is old news. The unusual part is the so called list of "800" being codified. This whole thing seems to be one more extension of the Bush era special relationships between contractors and Command officers.

Talk about "embedding"! What needs examination is the unusual access and influence contractors and their "friends" appear to have throughout the military establishment.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:38 AM

9. Now That the Budget Ax (may be) Coming Out

 

regarding our bloated defense budget-- the crybabies moaning about "security" are going to have a hard time defending what's been going on at MacDill Social Club; errrrrrr, I mean MacDill Air Force Base.

WHY do 800 local civilians need unescorted access to this base? isn't MacDill where CENTCOM is located??

I wonder how many other bases are treated as social clubs with plenty of local attractive women given passes so they get access to the base??

FAIL.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:20 AM

10. Not Really Shocking

I grew up around Fort Meade, the Army's HEADQUARTERS. Civilians used to drive through the middle of the base as a short cut. No gates for years. It's really only tightened security since post-9/11.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:14 AM

11. I'm really beginning to wonder if Jill Kelley wasn't running a call girl/boy ring for top military

She just has all the earmarks of being a madame....

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:41 AM

12. This isn't that important

Lots of people have access to many military bases, that does not mean that have access to everything on the bases.

"Also located at MacDill are a division of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGIA), the Joint Communications Support Element (JCSE), the Air Force Reserve Command's 622nd Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron (622 AES), the Florida Air National Guard's 290th Joint Communications Support Squadron (290 JCSS), the Navy Reserve Forces Command's Navy Operational Support Center Tampa (NOSC Tampa), the US Army's 297th Military Intelligence Battalion, the Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory, activities of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, elements of the American Red Cross, the anti-medfly operation of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and Detachment 1 of the Air Combat Command's 23d Wing (23 WG) from Moody Air Force Base, GA, among numerous other organizations, activities and agencies."

and

"The base also supports the large military retiree community in the Tampa Bay area and surrounding environs."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDill_Air_Force_Base

That means civilians are routinely coming and going at MacDill AFB, it does NOT mean that civilians have access to the secured areas of the base.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:54 AM

13. Civilians and the public can enter most military bases without being accompanied by someone

with a military ID.


If you have a reason to be at the base you state the reason and present your driver's license, registration and current insurance.

At that point they will either waive you through, send you to the nearby security kiosk, or ask to inspect your vehicle.

Lots of civilians have business appointments on bases and enter every day. Moreover hundreds of thousands of servicemen live on base and their relatives and friends go on bases every day for simple social visits, including visits at the hospitals that are located on the bases.

Also security at the gates is mostly done by non military sub contracted guards, which is reasonable, because a) it would divert a significant percent of manpower b) when it was done by low ranking military personnel it was part of a rotation and they would never get as much experience as a dedicated security personnel would get.

The Tampa Bay Times seems to be unaware that civilians have regular access to bases after passing gate security (bases have MacDonald's, bowling alleys, drug stores, etc requiring thousands of civilians to enter every day) and framed the whole question about access around 'tours'. Most bases have some sort of museum about the base and encourage visitors to come and visit.

If this seems like a breach of security, it is not. More secure and sensitive parts of the bases that have munitions, or aircraft, etc have their own much higher level of security that is mounted with armed military personnel and access there is very strict.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:36 PM

15. All of those people you mention have to be sponsored. Someone has to

meet them at the gate, or they go to the visitor's center to get a pass for their vehicle for the day--with the sponsor. Contractors, workers, family, friends--all have to be sponsored by someone (or some agency) who IS allowed on base. You can't just present a regular driver's license and state that you have business there, and they let you on.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:00 PM

16. Its just not true. I have entered bases hundreds of times and am usually just waved through.

Sometimes I have to go in the kiosk and get a pass, but with the new driver's license swipe I haven't had to do even that.

As I said many bases have museums that are open to the public, for example. They also have public events and activities on a regular basis where civilians are invited to, including school events and civic events. Most of the bases have hospitals where people visit without any type of 'sponsorship'.

Some of the time I have appointments and tell them and there is no checking with the person I said I have an appointment with, beyond swiping my driver's license through a card reader. The old practice of having to get a day's pass has not been used by the many bases I visit for several years.

Some of the time I have no appointments and I simply tell the guard I am dropping off information at the Human Resource department and am waved through without any further checking.

I have been on Navy bases, Marine bases, and Air Force bases atleast 200 times over the last 8 years and on less than a dozen times have I had to fax down the information and formally get a 'sponsor' as you suggest.

Oddly the only base that I have found the procedure to be so restricted and cumbersome that it isn't worth my time is not a regular Navy, Marine, or Air Force base but March Reserve Air Force Base which is no longer an Air Force facility but a Reserve Air Force Base that also has a commercial component, I have gotten on there without a 'sponsor' but it required a lot of paperwork and the office I went to had to call back in 15 minutes after I passed the gate or they would send security out to look for me. It was more difficult than some of the areas with higher clearance and classified secret that I visit.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:32 PM

17. I believe you, but that hasn't been my experience.

My husband had to do gate duty fairly recently, and he said they either have to have DoD/military ID cards or they need a pass that came from the visitor's center (which is where the sponsor goes with the visitor). Just to get his parents on to the base for his retirement ceremony took a trip to the visitor's center with him to get a pass for their car (although had they ridden with us it wouldn't have been an issue, of course). They open up the base sometimes for special events like airshows, but that's occasional. It could be that the places you access aren't off-limits to civilian entry, but I have never visited or lived on any AFB where I didn't need stickers (old system) or military ID to get through the gate, or where my family could simply drive up and get through the gate without my meeting them there and showing my ID.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:38 PM

18. I understand, it does vary from base to base, and I mentioned a reserve base was far more difficult

than the others.

I think that one of the issues is to what degree is the base integrated into the local economy and also if they have had problems with off base visitors.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:44 AM

14. military bases are not on constant lock down.

my experience is you need to have some "business" on base. that business can be visiting a friend who lives on base. shortly after 9/11 i had very important business on a military base. i had to measure a room for carpet. at the gate they simply took my info off my id and let me proceed.

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