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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:35 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (anobserver2) on Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:16 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
anobserver2 Nov 2012 OP
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #1
aletier_v Nov 2012 #3
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #5
riverwalker Nov 2012 #12
olddad56 Nov 2012 #16
DCKit Nov 2012 #6
yardwork Nov 2012 #15
Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #23
amandabeech Nov 2012 #18
HooptieWagon Nov 2012 #27
loyalkydem Nov 2012 #2
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #4
MADem Nov 2012 #29
Tutonic Nov 2012 #42
MADem Nov 2012 #44
LeftInTX Nov 2012 #7
FightingIrish Nov 2012 #8
Corgigal Nov 2012 #10
FightingIrish Nov 2012 #13
Corgigal Nov 2012 #14
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #25
MADem Nov 2012 #45
lalalu Nov 2012 #20
MADem Nov 2012 #30
Corgigal Nov 2012 #9
MADem Nov 2012 #31
lalalu Nov 2012 #11
L0oniX Nov 2012 #17
FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #21
TorchTheWitch Nov 2012 #47
amandabeech Nov 2012 #19
MADem Nov 2012 #34
amandabeech Nov 2012 #38
MADem Nov 2012 #43
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #39
aletier_v Nov 2012 #41
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #22
MADem Nov 2012 #33
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #37
MADem Nov 2012 #46
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #49
MADem Nov 2012 #51
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #55
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #54
PSPS Nov 2012 #24
powergirl Nov 2012 #26
underpants Nov 2012 #28
DeSwiss Nov 2012 #32
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #35
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #36
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #40
MADem Nov 2012 #48
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #52
MADem Nov 2012 #58
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #53
MADem Nov 2012 #59
PavePusher Nov 2012 #50
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #56
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #57

Response to anobserver2 (Original post)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:39 PM

3. i think you have to assume it's an Allen underling

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #3)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:09 PM

12. because her then brother-in-law is this guy

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:23 PM

16. looks like her former brother in law is affiliated with the Bushco.

The plot is thickening with each passing day.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:44 PM

6. Or how she got the pass with her financial history. nt

 

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Response to DCKit (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:21 PM

15. That's my question. She passed a background check??!! Who would fail?

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Response to yardwork (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 05:17 PM

23. someone on high got it rubberstamped for her...

why was she such a frequent visitor, anyway?

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Response to DCKit (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:38 PM

18. No kidding.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:40 PM

27. Apparently Gen Mike DeLong.

Who introduced her to Gen Tommy Franks, Gen David Petraeus and other brass. She would host cocktail parties for MacDill elites.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:37 PM

2. This has the makings of

a movie.

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Response to loyalkydem (Reply #2)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:43 PM

29. They do--it was a scheme to get wealthy, well-behaved patrons into MWR facilities.

Jill was one of EIGHT HUNDRED civilians granted access.

The generals wanted to keep their two golf courses, so the colonel in charge of the base (the host command, as you will) ginned up a scheme and invited a select group of polite, well-off and well-connected locals to help fill the MWR coffers. They could also join the O club at a seventeen buck a month surcharge.

MWR facilities, if they do not make money to sustain themselves, are required to close. Congress no longer subsidizes them, they haven't for many years, so they have to find ways to stay open.

The backstory: http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/macdill/article1261501.ece

The ID first issued to Jill Kelley in November 2010 was revoked on Tuesday pending a Pentagon investigation...The ID is one of about 800 issued by MacDill's 6th Air Mobility Wing in a program called Friends of MacDill, which allows select civilians who pass a background check to visit MacDill without being accompanied by someone with a military ID.

The wing serves as something akin to a landlord for other commands at the base, including U.S. Central Command. Petraeus was CentCom's chief from 2008 to 2010. The wing is in charge of base security, and its armed personnel stand watch at MacDill's entry gates.

The program was launched in late 2010 by Col. Lenny Richoux, former wing commander who now serves in Europe.

Kelley obtained the ID four months after Petraeus left CentCom in June 2010 to take command of U.S. troops in Afghanistan. His deputy commander, Marine Gen. John Allen, served as CentCom's acting chief for six weeks after Petraeus' departure.

Kelley's pass was renewed in February 2012.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:40 PM

42. Well now to be fair to Ms. Kelley, she was providing "services"

to all of those strapping men in uniform. FBI guy was included in the list until he decided to disrobe.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:35 PM

44. They exist at MacDill--eight hundred people have them. It's a moneymaker for MWR/MWA.

It was originated at the host command level--no "generals" involved in any way, shape or form. The base commander, a colonel, signed off on this program a few years ago.

When you have a lagging O Club, an infusion of 17 bucks times eight hundred suckers a month ($13,600) is a nice chunk of change--enough to make the difference between keeping that club open or having to close it; meeting payroll or not meeting payroll for your self-sustaining entities on the base.

These people also buy meals at the base restaurants, bowl in the base bowling alley, tee off at the two golf courses (and pay a nice chunk of change--still way cheaper than "outside"--for the privilege), go to movies at the base movie theater, and all that money they spend benefits the base.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/macdill/article1261501.ece

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:45 PM

7. Good!!! Bye-bye gawdy, grifter groupie

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:56 PM

8. She doesn't need a pass because she's an honorary consul

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Response to FightingIrish (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:03 PM

10. I wasn't an MP back then

but I think she would still need a pass and her car would have stickers on it. All of those are now revoked.

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:13 PM

13. You mean this wouldn't get her in with a smart salute?

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Response to FightingIrish (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:17 PM

14. actually probably not

enlisted are on post at the gates and they have to actually work for a living and can get into trouble if they mess up. Unlike Generals , it appears to me.

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #14)


Response to Corgigal (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:36 PM

45. Lots of times, it's civilians on the gates--it is at Hanscom, more often than not. nt

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:40 PM

20. Back then they didn't care who you were.

 

You got checked. There have been many complaints about how lax things had become. One problem is that a lot more duties have been privatized and more civilians have been given access with phony titles like "social liaison".

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:47 PM

30. Air Force bases have dumped the stickers. You get in with an ID alone, now.

Makes it easier if you're driving a rental car.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:59 PM

9. I was stationed at MacDill for four years

sure it was a bit ago, but I never even heard of a unpaid social liaison. I guess back in my day (late 80's) General's didn't have civilian groupies and this "position" should never been allowed to occur in the first place.

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:48 PM

31. Every flag/general staff I've been associated with has paid protocol officers, either mid-grade

military or civilians--overseas, oftentimes they have a staff that includes both.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:07 PM

11. Was it like this scene from Branded

 

&feature=player_detailpage

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:36 PM

17. Jill Kelley stripped of cloths too. Google Jill Kelly ...check images.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:42 PM

21. I'm at work, so I'll just say: If those images are of a blonde, that's a different Jill Kelly.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:14 AM

47. there is a Jill Kelly that is a well-known blonde porn actress

This Jill Kelley (spelled differently btw with the extra "e") is a brunette and not a porn actress.





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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:40 PM

19. Paul Broadwell's security clearance has been pulled.

As per Barbara Star on CNN.

Broadwell had classified security material in her home, which is a no-no.

Clearly, a thorough investigation is underway.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:53 PM

34. Barbara Starr is a good reporter. She knows where many Pentagon bodies are buried.

She's been there for a long, long time. I remember her from back in the Clinton days!

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Response to MADem (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:00 PM

38. I like her person and very much respect her work.

Maybe when she retires she'll write a book--after a decent interval.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:27 PM

43. That would be a good read! nt

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:03 PM

39. "a thorough investigation is underway."

but will we hear of the results, I wonder?

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:07 PM

41. "security material in her home, which is a no-no"

That's not exactly true.

I just completed a security training video. Basically, it doesn't say I can't take docs home, it says I have to treat them with the same level of security as if I left at the office.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:47 PM

22. No sponsor, no employer, not a contractor, no reason to be there.

She should never have been more than a visitor with an escort or sponsor.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:50 PM

33. She was one of eight hundred that were invited to be there.

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Response to MADem (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:14 PM

37. Yeah, that's total bullshit. I used to live at MacDill, and that program

certainly didn't exist when I lived there--I don't know if that's a MacDill-only thing (hope so), but how hinky is it that it's by "invitation only" so that CERTAIN select civilians can use base restaurants and golf courses? Pretty much that means the buddies and girlfriends of the generals, no doubt. I doubt MY civilian friends would've been invited, wife of a junior officer that I was. The fact that there's a news article about it says to me that it's raising eyebrows.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:08 AM

46. It's not hinky at all--it's how base CO's are dealing with the Congressional mandate WRT MWR/MWA

entities on installations. If your club doesn't make money, you have to CLOSE it. If your golf course is in the red, you have to CLOSE it. If your bowling alley isn't profitable, you have to CLOSE it. That's the way it works now--no excuses, no exceptions--and no military people running that shit anymore, either--it's all civilianized and it has to turn a profit, or else.

As a consequence, you have a lot of creative management happening to keep these things afloat for the benefit of the uniforms on the installation. I've seen programs at bases where kids from religious programs unrelated to bases are bused in by the dozens to use (and PAY to use) the bowling alleys on a Saturday morning, when most of the usual customers--single servicemembers--are still sleeping off their Friday night of partying. I've been assigned to commands where the golf course was opened up to "select" civilians--i.e., community bigwigs who wouldn't get drunk and make trouble, and they were invited to join the club and pay monthly dues.

This program is, pure and simple, not a "general's perk" deal, it's an "installation management" device--a command tool. Nothing more. It's also, as I said, a consequence of a congressional mandate about MWR/MWA activities--there's no more profit-sucking perks allowed, anymore, with the taxpayers picking up the tab. With the exception of a few rare "hardship" outposts, MWR/MWA activities have to make money, or they must be closed. This was the CO's way of increasing his customer base by 800.

It's by "invitation only" so there's a vetting process (that includes a background check). You don't want assholes who tend to get drunk and create work for your MPs running around the clubs, after all. You want to be dealing with people who will be of benefit to you as an installation commander, who will support annual charitable shindigs, get involved in morale activities for the troops, and add to--not detract from--the overall Quality of Life effort at the installation.

Here--read about the guy who started the program (in an article in a blog that serves as a "bridge" to the civilian community, months before the scandal broke): http://offthebase.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/macdill-afb-a-community-bids-farewell-to-richoux/


Col. Lenny Richoux was certainly a popular commander when running Tampaís MacDill Air Force Base. He started a friends of MacDill program to encourage civilian members of the community to visit the base and get to know its work and people.
Richoux also worked to expand services to military families, about 80 percent of them, living off base in communities such as Brandon. So, itís no wonder that this billboard appeared in Brandon.
I donít know who sponsored the billboard, but you hope Richoux and his family have a chance to see it before flying off to Belgium, their new post.
And a welcome to Col. Scott DeThomas, a friend of Richouxís, and the new MacDill AFB commander and leader of the 6th Air Mobility Wing.




You have to be very careful how you implement these sorts of things--if you go overboard, you can get complaints from local businesses that the base is taking away their livelihood. You will never see any of those MacDill 'friends' shopping in the exchange or commissary, though you will see them in the "mall" portion of that complex where no ACDU/Ret IDs are required, where there's a food court, a GNC, a beauty parlor/barbershop, souvenir stands, stuff like that.

It's not the "generals" who are making the decision--it's the host commander, and he's making the call based on people who are "known" in the community and who are willing to pay seventeen bucks a month to join the O club (that's a lot of money when you have eight hundred "new members" keeping the club afloat).

Congressional appropriations committees scrutinize MWR/MWA on a line-by-line basis. They also gripe incessantly about personnel/medical costs. Believe me, I have personal experience in this regard.

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Response to MADem (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:38 AM

49. Sorry, I think it's crap. If there aren't enough military and retiree users to

keep bowling alleys and the like open and the base funding falls short, then they close or cut hours to match demand. I've lived on four AF bases, and though I'd hate it, I'd rather see the MWR stuff get cut than see "invited" civilian guests--bigwigs and not the "rabble", of course, wouldn't want non-connected regular joes getting in-- wandering around the base unaccompanied. Local prominence and $$ should not buy you unaccompanied access to the base, or you get the Tampa Twins, and no one is accountable for their actions. They could always use these facilities as sponsored guests and visitors, BTW--it's not like they're totally shut out. Just that someone needs to get them in and accompany them. I guess that's too much trouble for the brass who seem to like this sort of program--easier to just give their prominent golf buddies and mistresses their own ID cards. Bullshit. And edit to add: they'd better not get access to the BX and Commissary, or you will see AD and Retired go APESHIT. You know that's a cherished bennie.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:00 AM

51. I have some experience with this sort of situation.

Go on and close that bowling alley--and you'll hear from the ombudsmen that that's where they held their meeting of their charitable organization, or that's where their kids had their after-school program, or that's what kept those punk eighth graders out of trouble when the pool closed. You'll get an earful. Every opportunity you can take to keep a variety of MWR/MWA activities open and viable, you need to take. As an installation commander, you're judged not just on how well your base runs day-to-day, but on your bottom line. If you can't keep your non-appropriated funds instrumentalities up-n-running, you're a loser.

It's not a question solely of "local prominence," though that is not ignored, certainly, but it is a question of money, and if a regular visitor can help the base out in other ways (donating to a scholarship fund, for example, to be awarded to one of the kids of a servicemember graduating from high school, or contributing funding for a Welcome Home BBQ for returning deployed personnel) this kind of thing is helpful. It does forge better relations with the local community, and if the local community isn't hating the military, life is easier all around.

These people aren't nearly helpful if THEY have to be "sponsored" and signed in--their utility is that THEY can bring five others in during the daytime to spend money on base. Believe me, that money is critical to keeping the recreational services--that are used by junior personnel with not much money in their paychecks--available.

About the only thing run by MWR/MWA that can "legally" lose money is the gymnasium--that's because it's a "mission readiness" component--people need to be fit to fight and have to pass their PT test twice a year.

This sort of thing, where civilians are granted access, ONLY applies to MWA/MWR (non-appropriated funds) recreational activities. PX/Commissary privileges will NEVER be granted to them--DOD has made this very clear down the years, and it won't be changed.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #49)


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #37)


Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 05:49 PM

24. It cracks me up that the press keeps using the term "socialite" to describe this groupie.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:24 PM

26. Does this mean that

her lawn loses its diplomatic immunity?

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:37 PM

28. I got to "Socialite Jill Kelley stripped"... and then was disappointed

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:49 PM

32. Inviolability ain't what it used to be.....

- K&R

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #35)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:06 PM

40. but.but..I thought the "war on Terraaahhh" meant INCREASED security.

esp. at military bases.
esp. of people with Middle East backgrounds.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:17 AM

48. They're very open nowadays--they use the whole "circular zone" thing to restrict access.

Anyone with appropriate documentation (or accompanying someone with appropriate documentation) can get in most bases. They aren't going to be able to drive on the flight line or into operational areas, but they'll have no trouble getting around housing and the PX/clubs/movie/library/bowling alley areas.

I've gone on a number of bases with relatives who had nothing more than a non-military picture ID like a driver's license, and didn't have to "sign them in." So long as they came in with me, there was no issue. In fact, I've even brought family members who were unaffiliated with the military to stay at TLA hotel facilities on bases. It's much less onerous these days, 911 notwithstanding. The focus is more on protecting stuff that NEEDS protecting--and stores and golf courses and family housing are not regarded as "high risk" targets. Places where operational equipment like aircraft/weapons are kept, or where classified material is stored, those places get the extra security and they are separated from the social areas of the bases.

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Response to MADem (Reply #48)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 02:41 AM

58. Hanscom is, as USAF bases go, pretty shitty when it comes to facilities/services.

The new commissary/exchange is nicer than the old one, but what else do they have? The bowling alley, the little movie theater that doesn't show first run movies, a couple of clubs, the lousiest class six store I've seen in years, a gas station that doesn't offer any savings, a nine hole golf course that's miles away from the base-it's not a jewel in the USAF MWR crown--and the place is constantly under the BRAC gun. I wouldn't be surprised if they go on the block, again, in the next round. What might save them is that they intend to be the host base for some MA NG units--that will bring people to the base to spend money.

Also, Hanscom doesn't have a need for more MWR money--their MWR footprint is appropriate to the community they serve, and they don't have a lot of fluctuation in the numbers of personnel they support, like some other bases have to deal with (feast when there are personnel aboard; famine when they are deployed). They don't have much, but they don't need much. Even with the possibility of future NG assets, they still have plenty of room--they might need to hire a few people to handle the extra traffic, but they won't run out of room at their facilities.

I was at Hanscom a month or so ago--I had a relative with me who is not affiliated with the military in any way. I showed my ID, and in we went. I used to need a sticker on my car to get in there -- no longer. They've done away with those, too. The only time you have to go through that Visitor Center drill is if you work/live on base and a visitor, unaccompanied by you, is coming to visit you. If you're with the person, you're responsible for them.

Also, Hanscom does open their facilities to the public on occasion. Not as much as MacDill and they don't have a "Friends" program, but they still do it. Air shows, athletic contests--I think they let the local high school use their golf course, and I seem to recall a non-military church group getting in trouble owing to the misbehavior of one of their number at the bowling alley a few years ago.

MacDill has nicer facilities, and TWO golf clubs in a community where golf is quite popular and you sometimes have to fight to get a tee time--there's money to be made, there, and that's why the CO established that program. Hanscom just doesn't have much that would appeal to a civilian, that they could legally use (commissary/exchange are off limits to civilians, no matter where you go). There are better facilities out in town. It's just not a draw. Also, this is New England--local businessmen aren't going to welcome the idea of base facilities being opened up to compete with them for civilian dollars--that kind of scenario just would not fly. In any event, MacDill isn't the only base that has used this kind of program, but you need cooperation from the community and you also have to have "stuff" that's worth using--Hanscom just doesn't have that. It has "adequate" facilities but it's nothing to write home about.

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Response to MADem (Reply #48)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:02 AM

59. Just because the host command isn't subjecting these people to media scrutiny does not make the

program "secret." The only "secret" is what would disqualify a person from being able to get a pass--according to this article. Note the date on it--it's almost two years ago: http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/macdill/macdill-takes-step-toward-more-access-not-less/1145880

Here's another article about the "secret" program from May, 2011: http://bloomingdale.patch.com/articles/macdill-air-force-base-caters-to-personnel-living-in-brandon-area


There's a wordpress blog on the internet about the program too.

You apply to be admitted, and someone in the CO's office makes the decision to admit you, or not.

This is a non-appropriated funds instrumentality moneymaker, and it is not the only one the USAF is running. Nothing more. Certainly not a "secret" or if it is, it's a poorly kept one, seeing as the last CO touted the program in newspaper articles at every opportunity...

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:45 AM

50. Could also be sloppy reporting from an ignorant "reporter".

 

Most of them don't know squat about anything military.

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Response to anobserver2 (Original post)


Response to anobserver2 (Reply #56)