HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Firestorm Erupts Over Vir...

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:51 PM

Firestorm Erupts Over Virginia's Education Goals [Different goals set based on race, disability]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Rhiannon12866 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: NPR

As part of Virginia's waiver to opt out of mandates set out in the No Child Left Behind law, the state has created a controversial new set of education goals that are higher for white and Asian kids than for blacks, Latinos and students with disabilities.

Virginia Democratic state Sen. Donald McEachin first read about the state's new performance goals for schoolchildren in a newspaper editorial.

"And I was shocked to find that the state board of education putting in place permanent disparities between different subgroups Asians at the top, African-Americans at the bottom," says McEachin.

Here's what the Virginia state board of education actually did. It looked at students' test scores in reading and math and then proposed new passing rates. In math it set an acceptable passing rate at 82 percent for Asian students, 68 percent for whites, 52 percent for Latinos, 45 percent for blacks and 33 percent for kids with disabilities.

Read more: http://www.nwpr.org/post/firestorm-erupts-over-virginias-education-goals

22 replies, 2988 views

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Firestorm Erupts Over Virginia's Education Goals [Different goals set based on race, disability] (Original post)
Sgent Nov 2012 OP
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #1
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #2
lalalu Nov 2012 #3
adieu Nov 2012 #5
lalalu Nov 2012 #6
jtuck004 Nov 2012 #17
lalalu Nov 2012 #18
jtuck004 Nov 2012 #20
chuckstevens Nov 2012 #4
LeftyMom Nov 2012 #7
Sgent Nov 2012 #10
LeftyMom Nov 2012 #12
Sgent Nov 2012 #21
mwooldri Nov 2012 #8
lalalu Nov 2012 #9
AndyTiedye Nov 2012 #11
truthisfreedom Nov 2012 #13
underpants Nov 2012 #14
roaminronin Nov 2012 #15
hedgehog Nov 2012 #16
raging moderate Nov 2012 #19
Rhiannon12866 Nov 2012 #22

Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:01 PM

1. Race? No

Disabilities? A big YES. I say that having worked with special needs kids. One size does not fit all on that one. It should be left up to their own individual disability and IEP.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:02 PM

2. They did that here in FL...with Asians

having higher goals than whites....But oh my, our standards are much higher for everyone....

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:03 PM

3. This is why we need uniform federal standards.

 

This state crap is not working.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:16 PM

5. Not quite

This is why the whole concept of standards and grades make absolutely no sense. We should scrap the concept of standard altogether. It's a fiction.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to adieu (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:26 PM

6. Yes it is quite the thing needed.

 

Education should be treated like a civil right with the same standards across the country. No standards or grades? Seriously? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The dumbing down of America is reaching a peak.

The problem in education is the intrusion of private companies and their peddling of teaching packets and tests. I find it interesting that the same people who argue against standards find nothing wrong with bogus operations like the SAT racket.

If we can't come together as a nation and determine that every child should be taught basics like 2+2 =4, the earth is oval, and energy never dies then we have some serious problems.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lalalu (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:41 PM

17. I bet you would have called John Dewey a hippie. n/t

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:56 PM

18. Actually you would have probably called me one when I was a teen.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when some of his ideas were incorporated into public schools and it was successful.

Free thinking , active learning, and creativity can coexist with setting standards. The problem is we have become conditioned to think only in either/or ways. Another problem is that public education has become privatized and a moneymaker for some just like the prison industry.

Local school officials buy all types of inferior learning products from private vendors with zero oversight and a lot of kickbacks. Many of these products are loaded with errors and outright disinformation. Federal oversight would regulate and make sure they meet standards. That is another reason no one wants the feds to be more involved.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lalalu (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:01 AM

20. Lol. yeah. Anyway, I think we do a better job with local control,


when it works right. And when it doesn't I'm not sure some different group of experts setting in place a pre-designed set of instructions, because a few groups aren't proceeding as expected, is going to fix more than it breaks. It would be imposed on those who are doing fine as well, and with an unknown, unnecessary, and perhaps questionable result. (rhetorical...Would you get a better student if they passed college algebra successfully in a school that taught Creationism, or one who resentfully does the minimum in an imposed class where the science is not imaginary?) And if the Creationists got control of a new federal system there goes the neighborhood. Heck, given the right lobbyists and donations, they may not even have to get elected.

I do see the need to work on people who profit from stupid, but in a place with such free speech, I wonder if that is possible. Or maybe it gets so regimented that it discourages experimenting, like today.

Then again, I think parental education and involvement is more important than the curriculum. If the parents think learning is important, and they are provided with resources, they will seek it out. If they don't, or can't, it doesn't matter how much federal control one throws at the school, they will always be off target.

Then again, we are moving into a new century, but we still seem to be trying to rebuild the old one. I am truly amazed at how many people think we are going to come back to any semblance of what we had even 20 years ago. The wealth, those jobs, that knowledge which produced that lifestyle is gone, likely forever. We are moving into a time of even more income inequality, and large numbers of people with no work. We will have a few professionals, but massive numbers of people who serve coffee, empty bedpans, and sell insurance to each other. Hardly the material with which to create demand, and thus jobs. Time has moved on, and we haven't figured out how to compete in a world that we no longer sell everything to.

Given that the schools were designed to train people to that old industrial life, I can't help but think they might be changing radically sooner than we think. I am not at all sure the people at the top of the political food chain are ready to be honest and work the country through this. And if they can't level with the country, how can they hope to prescribe their education?

Speaking of which, are they teaching students on a daily basis that, for large numbers of them, their best opportunities might well be be outside this country for the next several decades? We will go through some drug booms and other stuff related to people aging, but real opportunity in the kind of numbers we have is in those countries around us that want to emulate our wasteful lifestyles.











Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:13 PM

4. Repeal No Child Left Behind NOW!

* According to the No Child left Behind Act, by 2014, 100 % of kids in America will be at grade level. Never in this history of American
education has been a realistic goal, but a man who only got into good schools because of daddy's clout made the decision.

* In Illinois all students take the ACT test. I mean literally all students; ESL, ELL, and Special Education students! The ACT was designed as an aptitude test that was designed to weed kids out for college, but it is being incorrectly being used as an exit exam for what students have learned. Gee a school with more bi-lingual, immigrant children and more special students due to related socio/economic issues aren't cutting for college. Ya Think?

* Arnie Duncan's "Race to the Top" is simply letting states opt out of No Child Left Behind if they are willing to bust teachers unions.

This whole farce must stop! None of this benefits kids. In the 1990's when the madness began, public high schools gutted almost all of their tech programs. Students lost great technical programs that could have led to a job and a well paying career, but no; we have to pretend that all kids can get a 30 and go to Harvard. Modern education has truly become a case of the Emperor's New Clothes.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:29 PM

7. As far as disability, isn't a lower pass rate for students with cognitive disabilities expected?

Obviously standardized testing is silly and doubly so for students with atypical cognitive abilities, but what's the kerfuffle about a lower expected pass rate for kids whose conditions often preclude grade level performance?

The race thing is obviously another story.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LeftyMom (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:56 PM

10. It depends

my brother has severe ADHD (over 25 years ago before everyone did) and did very poorly for a long time until it was finally recognized and treated -- including using an IEP and related provisions. He finished schools in the top 10% of his law school class.

ADHD, asperger's, and dyslexia are cognitive disabilities -- and there is no reason those students should not improve at grade level if given appropriate support.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:45 PM

12. Sure. But some kids' disabilities make passing a meaningful test impossible.

A friend of mine teaches severely autistic students. He has to adapt tests and write up plans for how to get them to grade level. Now unless he comes up with a cure for autism over his lunch break that's just not going to happen. His students are so impaired that getting them potty trained before their legal majority isn't always a realistic goal. And yeah, crazy as it is, they get (highly adapted, completely meaningless, time wasting and demoralizing) standardized tests, because God Bless America, it's required.

Those kids are part of that disabled student population too, so a very low overall expected pass rate starts to make sense, once you figure in all the kids whose severe disabilities mean they absolutely can not pass a meaningful grade level test.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LeftyMom (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:56 AM

21. I agree

I didn't mean to make light of the enormous challenge presented by those who aren't able to learn and cannot be streamlined. What I'm afraid of (and I don't know how to compensate for this) is that students who do have the ability, with work, will not get the attention they need -- since they are held to a lower standard.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:36 PM

8. WHAT?

I think this one deserves a meme of sorts:



Last I checked, the SAT doesn't account for race or ability. To set different "pass" rates based on your ethnicity does an absolute disservice to the whole of Virginia. Take a student of African-American heritage, and they perform at 150% of passing rate in maths, but their student friend of European heritage is performing at 100% of passing rate. Who statistically is performing better? Not the student of African-American heritage.

And as for students of Southern and Eastern Asian heritage being set a passing rate of 82%?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:40 PM

9. " What does that make us, Uncle Toms?" said Winsome Sears"

 

Some of the most racist people I have come across in education were black people who got their positions and then looked down on black students outside their gated communities. Anyone who doubts class divisions exist in black communities should sit in on a meeting with black educators. Some of them sound like KKK members the way they speak about poor black students.

There is also a financial incentive. They get more money for underachieving or labeled students. Then they spend the money on other things. I am sure this will upset people but it is very real. That is why some of them are going along with this.

When black educators tell black students they can only achieve so high then how do you think that makes the black students feel. I grew up in black community where we were told anything below an A and a top score was unacceptable. Now black students are told to rush to the bottom.

Yes they are Uncle Toms and other things I can't post.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:43 PM

11. What The...

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:47 PM

13. Obviously there's something wrong with something.

What that is, we may never know. When looking at this particular conundrum, no scientific examination of it will result in a politically acceptable solution, so that leads to this: There's something wrong with something and we haven't figured it out yet.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:49 PM

14. I have heard this firsthand from friends who are teachers

it is a fact. These are the standards.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:08 PM

15. Clarification

The standard base rates are set where they presently are in Virginia. The idea is that all lower performing subsets will be required to show more gains over the years, until they are all at the same base level. Yeah right. Lowest subgroups are Special Ed and English as a Second Language, they need the extra time. One size does not fit all.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:15 PM

16. OK - this year you have an entering class of kindergarteners -

tell me what would it take to bring every single child up to standard regardless of race, ethnicity, home background, etc. If some kids need more intensive attention to compensate for what happens outside the classroom, why aren't they getting it?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:58 PM

19. You do not understand how severe some of the impairments of our public school pupils are.

The public school system is responsible for, and has in its classrooms, children who function at about the level of the average 3-month old infant. There are some children with normal intellectual capacity but handicaps they can eventually overcome (social, emotional, or physical). Teams of teachers, aides, psychologists, nurses, and several kinds of therapists work very hard to help these children, and often these kids can make it into a good career and a full life. However, public schools nowadays have responsibility for ALL children, no matter how severely impaired they are. There is a huge range of deficits, much greater than is ever admitted by proponents of No Child Left Behind. Some children do not have the genetic potential to develop intellectual activity; that part of the brain will never grow. Others were normal at conception but have suffered some terrible injury or illness. Some children just do not have brains that can learn academic material. We have children who have to be constantly sponged because they cannot learn to swallow their saliva. Public school teachers and teacher aides in almost every district routinely do basic nursing care such as inserting feeding tubes into abdominal ports and catheterization for urinary tract problems. Some children have to be strapped for several hours per day in "standers" which force them into a standing position. This has to be done so their legs will grow to a somewhat normal length. Some children are just never going to capable of reading or doing math. In fact, some will never have the mental capacity to communicate verbally. Teachers, aides, and therapists all work to get them to be able to respond to a game of "catch," to consistently respond to a toy, or to indicate a picture of the food they want for lunch. That is, if they can actually eat. And then there is a whole large population of children with abilities ranging upward from this level but still impaired enough that they will always need a sheltered living center just to survive. Periodically, the educational teams meet to make sure they are doing everything they can to give all these children the very best chance possible, looking anxiously for any sign that the child may have greater potential than was previously thought, analyzing test results and performance logs, discussing whether procedure or placement changes should be made. The process is both heartbreaking and inspiring.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sgent (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:18 AM

22. Locking, sorry, this is over 12 hours old, from November 12th.

Please consider reposting in GD or Education. Thanks!

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink