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Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:19 AM

Meatless Mondays': LA urges residents to turn vegetarian one day a week

Source: NBC News

Los Angeles is hoping to persuade people to become vegetarian at least one day per week. Under a resolution unanimously approved by the city council this week, all future Mondays in the City of Angels have been declared "Meatless Mondays." It's part of an international campaign to cut down on meat consumption for health and environmental reasons.

Both the spiritual home of the hamburger and a haven for the health-obsessed, Los Angeles became the largest city in the nation to support the Meatless Monday campaign. The nonprofit initiative, started in 2003, is associated with Johns Hopkins University's public health school.

Councilwoman Jan Perry, who introduced the motion with Councilman Ed Reyes, noted the environmental impacts of meat production, and she emphasized that a high-meat diet has been linked to health problems such as colon, prostate, kidney and breast cancers, as well as heart disease.

"Eating less meat can prevent and even reverse some of our nation's most common illnesses," Perry said. "We've become disconnected in some ways from the simple truth that our health is directly affected by the foods we eat,'' she added.

Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/10/15068169-meatless-mondays-la-urges-residents-to-turn-vegetarian-one-day-a-week

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Reply Meatless Mondays': LA urges residents to turn vegetarian one day a week (Original post)
onehandle Nov 2012 OP
Richard D Nov 2012 #1
xtraxritical Nov 2012 #44
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #55
antigone382 Nov 2012 #2
Salviati Nov 2012 #3
slackmaster Nov 2012 #4
antigone382 Nov 2012 #5
slackmaster Nov 2012 #6
antigone382 Nov 2012 #7
slackmaster Nov 2012 #8
antigone382 Nov 2012 #9
slackmaster Nov 2012 #12
antigone382 Nov 2012 #82
meti57b Nov 2012 #89
antigone382 Nov 2012 #91
PavePusher Nov 2012 #136
antigone382 Nov 2012 #137
slackmaster Nov 2012 #138
antigone382 Nov 2012 #139
slackmaster Nov 2012 #140
antigone382 Nov 2012 #142
slackmaster Nov 2012 #144
antigone382 Nov 2012 #146
slackmaster Nov 2012 #147
antigone382 Nov 2012 #148
antigone382 Nov 2012 #150
SoapBox Nov 2012 #10
slackmaster Nov 2012 #14
SoapBox Nov 2012 #18
CreekDog Nov 2012 #129
slackmaster Nov 2012 #131
antigone382 Nov 2012 #141
slackmaster Nov 2012 #143
antigone382 Nov 2012 #145
slackmaster Nov 2012 #157
antigone382 Nov 2012 #161
slackmaster Nov 2012 #171
antigone382 Nov 2012 #175
slackmaster Nov 2012 #178
Bette Noir Nov 2012 #101
Paladin Nov 2012 #102
MurrayDelph Nov 2012 #107
antigone382 Nov 2012 #110
Paladin Nov 2012 #116
antigone382 Nov 2012 #111
DRoseDARs Nov 2012 #21
slackmaster Nov 2012 #24
lalalu Nov 2012 #42
DRoseDARs Nov 2012 #51
freshwest Nov 2012 #69
CreekDog Nov 2012 #95
RebelOne Nov 2012 #120
mitchtv Nov 2012 #153
flvegan Nov 2012 #25
freshwest Nov 2012 #22
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slackmaster Nov 2012 #35
freshwest Nov 2012 #38
CreekDog Nov 2012 #128
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lalalu Nov 2012 #39
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neversaydie Nov 2012 #98
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #61
antigone382 Nov 2012 #81
alp227 Nov 2012 #78
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alp227 Nov 2012 #83
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CreekDog Nov 2012 #40
slackmaster Nov 2012 #113
CreekDog Nov 2012 #119
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CreekDog Nov 2012 #165
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SCVDem Nov 2012 #11
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freshwest Nov 2012 #23
2banon Nov 2012 #15
veganlush Nov 2012 #16
bitchkitty Nov 2012 #28
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #62
animato Nov 2012 #17
ET Awful Nov 2012 #27
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Ter Nov 2012 #30
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freshwest Nov 2012 #70
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lalalu Nov 2012 #31
forestpath Nov 2012 #34
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freshwest Nov 2012 #71
Gregorian Nov 2012 #41
lalalu Nov 2012 #43
onehandle Nov 2012 #45
thelordofhell Nov 2012 #47
lalalu Nov 2012 #52
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #63
RebelOne Nov 2012 #46
Ratty Nov 2012 #49
SoapBox Nov 2012 #57
Ratty Nov 2012 #74
ET Awful Nov 2012 #50
Blasphemer Nov 2012 #53
watercolors Nov 2012 #56
valerief Nov 2012 #58
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #59
AndyTiedye Nov 2012 #60
surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #64
roody Nov 2012 #104
snooper2 Nov 2012 #115
jtuck004 Nov 2012 #66
Harry Monroe Nov 2012 #67
Beaverhausen Nov 2012 #72
glacierbay Nov 2012 #75
AnnaLee Nov 2012 #76
alp227 Nov 2012 #79
slackmaster Nov 2012 #117
CreekDog Nov 2012 #158
slackmaster Nov 2012 #160
CreekDog Nov 2012 #166
slackmaster Nov 2012 #167
malthaussen Nov 2012 #86
Kalidurga Nov 2012 #87
Trajan Nov 2012 #88
frazzled Nov 2012 #90
revolution breeze Nov 2012 #92
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #99
RebelOne Nov 2012 #122
lunasun Nov 2012 #112
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #123
Paladin Nov 2012 #124
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Paladin Nov 2012 #126
slackmaster Nov 2012 #127
mary195149 Nov 2012 #134
onehandle Nov 2012 #135
llmart Nov 2012 #152
slackmaster Nov 2012 #163

Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:24 AM

1. Great idea . . .

. . . though real benefit would be had in having the ration reversed. Meat on Mondays, rest of the week vegetarian. Or something like that.

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Response to Richard D (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:48 PM

44. An even better idea would be automobileless Mondays.

 

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #44)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:08 PM

55. Automobileless Mondays won't work in my family.

Everyone works Mondays and they drive distances (minimal 21 miles one-way) to work. However, Meatless Mondays is a pretty good idea and I'm going to try it out since I'm the principle cook in our family.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:27 AM

2. Cutting meat consumption to a reasonable level is critcal to fighting climate change.

The fact is that supplying the amount of meat consumed by Westerners (Americans in particular) demands massive inputs of fossil fuel energy, and generates a significant amount of methane as well. As other cultures begin to adopt our level of meat consumption, so will carbon emissions.

To put this in perspective, check this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014296999 . The most severe, extreme predictions of global warming and its effects are proving to be the more accurate ones. Drastic reductions in carbon emissions, and a transition to more resilient systems is critical to our survival.

Agriculture is one of the largest sources of carbon emissions (by some estimates, the largest source); discussing our dietary choices and habits is not a matter of judgment, elitism, or "nanny-state liberalism." It is a matter of our survival.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:29 AM

3. I've definitely cut back on my meat intake.

I'm never going to cut it out completely, love those brats, burgers, and steaks too much, but my diet has become much more frugivorous of late. Fruit has become my go-to food, and meat more of a few times a week thing, a make it count meal, rather than an everyday thing.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:39 AM

4. Ignore the arrogant nanny-state psychos, onehandle

 

It's just one small step from there to "Tuesday is Soylent Green Day."

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:49 AM

5. Agriculture is one of the number one sources of carbon emissions.

Meat production at current levels requires tremendous fossil fuel inputs. Maybe that isn't the argument being made by the L.A. folks, but it's a reality. See post #2. Also, see this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014296999

This isn't about trying to sissify all those proud burger eaters. It's about the reality that if we don't drastically change our agricultural, economic, and cultural systems (and whatever other systems you can think of), such that they are more in line with environmental limitations, we are all going to fry. I don't think a gentle suggestion that folks may want to think about doing without meat once a week is going to violate anyone's human rights.

If I'm missing sarcasm on your part, don't take what I have to say too personally. I just want to put information out there.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:52 AM

6. A city government has no business telling people what they should and should not eat

 

It's not their job.

The amount of carbon dioxide released by agricultural activity is tiny compared to what comes from natural sources.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:56 AM

7. human activity is causing climate change. Agriculture is a part of that activity.

If you really want to argue that carbon emissions related to fossil fuel intensive agriculture are not contributing to climate change I will gladly bust out a wide range of charts and statistics from reputable sources refuting you. Check the World Resources Institute, Vaclav Smil, the IPCC, anyone doing the tabulations. This isn't something you want to challenge me on unless you want to be proven wrong, because I have educated myself about it.

And the city government isn't "telling" anyone anything. They're making a suggestion. They also suggest things like reading to your kids and weatherizing your home. That doesn't make them the Gestapo.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:00 AM

8. It's not the LA city council's job to save the planet from anthropogenic climate change

 

That is not a responsibility conferred to them by the city's charter.

ETA it seems ridiculous to me that they would make such a statement. Their job is to run the city. Anything they do that is not related to running the city is a waste of time that should have been spent running the city.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:08 AM

9. It's everyone's job to do that. Everyone's.

And have you read the city charter? I'm pretty sure maintaining an environment conducive to the health and well-being of its citizens is a part of their charter.

Change to prevent climate change absolutely has to come from every level because it sure as hell isn't coming from the federal government, and individual action itself is not significant enough, especially in the context of a society that relies on fossil fuels so intensively for all of its major functions. Cities are key to any strategy to prevent climate change because they are small enough to develop sustainable systems at the community level.


In any case, here is a very good article written a few years ago by Vaclav Smil that breaks down the environmental impacts of meat consumption by the numbers.

http://www.vaclavsmil.com/wp-content/uploads/docs/smil-article-2002-pdr2003.pdf

I don't have time to discuss this with you further. Educate yourself about climate change and the seriousness of it and get back to me when you know what you're talking about, rather than throwing out random references to soylent green. Have a great day.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:19 AM

12. As a matter of fact, the first thing I did before responding to the OP was to read the charter

 

I'm pretty sure maintaining an environment conducive to the health and well-being of its citizens is a part of their charter.

No, it's not. That is in the California state constitution.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:54 PM

82. Well when the city council walks into your dining room and snatches a chicken off your plate...

I'll be sure to protest for you.

Until then, their innocuous efforts to encourage voluntary food consumption that is in line with the capabilities of the planet gets my seal of approval.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #82)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:01 PM

89. lolz ...... well-said!

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Response to meti57b (Reply #89)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:04 PM

91. Thanks. This is probably the most textbook "first world problem" I've ever encountered.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #82)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:59 PM

136. You don't see the irony here, do you.....

 



One of the worlds' larger, more polluted cities, telling agriculture that it is the problem....



I know how to fix this... all the farms in California can stop selling food to L.A. That should fix the problem in about 2-3 weeks.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #136)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:10 PM

137. Umm, yes, I see that that is a problem.

There is a need for diverse solutions. This suggestion to citizens (not agricultural producers--I'm the one saying that agriculture needs to change, and I don't live in LA) addresses one of them--one that is relatively easier to tackle than others.

I have no problem with people pointing out that LA has bigger fish to fry regarding pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. I do have a problem with a lot of rather entitled and uninformed meat fetishists screaming "freedumb" because of an innocuous and scientifically correct suggestion to slightly reduce (not eliminate) meat consumption.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #137)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:14 PM

138. I dispute your characterization of the council's recommendation as "scientifically correct"

 

It's based on an ASSUMPTION that people signing on to a meatless Monday trend will actually reduce the overall amount of meat that gets consumed over time.

There is no science behind it at all. It's just speculation, and it's amazing to me that people are so quick to embrace it without questioning its validity.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #138)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:23 PM

139. What is scientifically correct is that high rates of meat consumption contribute to climate change.

And there is a body of sociological literature supporting the significance of official endorsements for legitimizing cultural change.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #139)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:26 PM

140. And there is NO BASIS for claiming that meat-eaters voluntarily giving up meat one day each week...

 

...will reduce their meat consumption.

And there is a body of sociological literature supporting the significance of official endorsements for legitimizing cultural change.

We're talking about dietary change here, not cultural change.

Show me the beef.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #140)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:28 PM

142. foodways are a defining feature of culture.

Anthropology 101

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #142)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:31 PM

144. Having meat eaters pretend to be vegetarians one day per week won't change foodways

 

Not eating meat on Mondays is just a menu choice. It has nothing to do with embracing vegetarianism, or even necessarily reducing overall meat consumption.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #144)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:34 PM

146. Well that sounds like a great argument for the city council to ban meat forever.

Because obviously implementing a small and voluntary program that educates people and asks them to consider their behavior once a week is not going to change a thing.

Bring on the tofu internment camps. All praise to our bean burrito overlords.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #146)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:35 PM

147. Typical authoritarian knee-jerk reaction

 

If people won't cooperate voluntarily with our obviously good idea, we'll force them tol

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #147)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:36 PM

148. Yes, that is precisely my view.

Lentils of the world, unite!

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #147)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:45 PM

150. P.S. Technically climate change will force them to...

...owing to the mass slaughter of livestock following droughts that cripple feed grain production throughout the major agricultural regions of the country.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:15 AM

10. I have no problem with my LA City Council doing this...

they cannot force anyone to not eat meat on Monday's...it'll just be a "recommendation".

And, most city councils are worthless anyway. One of the last BIG deals that the LA City Council did was to ban plastic bags.

zzzzzzzz

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:20 AM

14. I know many Angelinos. Nobody I know will take the recommendation seriously.

 

They are quite cynical about the city's government.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:37 AM

18. I'm sorry...

I've just got to chuckle about that.

I've been here for a tad under 30 years and have finally admitted it...I love it here. I'm very comfortable with the "crowd" and actually find most folks here in the area to be very nice and realistic. They understand that the area is really, really big...with a wide and diverse population. I also prefer to think of people as thinking and taking in a wide amount of data, to draw conclusions...most pretty practical. Maybe I just don't run into that cynical crowd. San Diego is different maybe?

I travel for work...around and across the country...every week. Generally speaking, I can't wait to get back to Los Angeles.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:25 AM

129. apparently you don't know many in Silver Lake

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #129)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:00 AM

131. Did they have a giant vegetarian get-together last night to celebrate the council's proclamation?

 

Or are some of them smart enough to recognize a politician giving empty lip service to a trendy "cause?"

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #131)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:27 PM

141. How can you argue simultaneously that this is a toothless and ineffective action...

And that it is a terrible, authoritarian intrusion into our rights, bordering on enforcing cannibalism?

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #141)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:29 PM

143. It's worse than any of that, I'm afraid

 

It's cynical politicians blowing smoke in order to create the perception that they "care."

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #143)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:32 PM

145. Can you read their minds?

Do you know why or how they have decided to spend two seconds of their time to bring up meat consumption?

Would there ever be a tactic to address how our personal choices impact our environment and health that you would consider legitimate?

If it is not the job of cities to address factors contributing to climate change, who should be responsible for this, and how do you propose their doing it in such a way that it will actually successfully address the problem before it is too late?

If you don't like actions like this, what are your alternatives, and how do you guarantee their efficacy?

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #145)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:10 PM

157. I don't have to read their minds. They're politicians.

 

I saw their lips move.

If it is not the job of cities to address factors contributing to climate change, who should be responsible for this, and how do you propose their doing it in such a way that it will actually successfully address the problem before it is too late?

Those are great questions.

It's everyone's responsibility, and because the biggest contributors to climate change are nations and groups of nations, I suggest that any effort to address it at less than an international level are bound to be fruitless.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #157)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:16 PM

161. If local politicians are that inherently dishonest and atavistic...

...what makes you think state level politicians (and I mean state in the broader geopolitical sense) will be any different? Are they not demonstrably more power- and influence- hungry, more pandering, and less likely to take dramatic and decisive action?

If it is a fruitless task to bring about effective change at a community level, how the heck is it any easier or more effective to strictly and exclusively implement that change at the national level, where issues are obviously far more complex and involve conflicts between many more stakeholders?

How do you expect such national policies to be effective if they are not integrated into local policies that speak to the unique social, political, and environmental factors contributing to pollution or greenhouse gas emissions that are unique to local areas?

Speaking strictly about the national level, how do you feel about efforts to encourage healthy and sustainable eating at the national level? Are you OK with Michelle Obama's actions and advocacy regarding food choice?

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #161)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:39 PM

171. I didn't say that local politicians are any different than state or national ones

 

In fact, just about everyone who holds an elected office at the state or national level started out in local politics somewhere. They're cut from the same cloth because they are the same people.

Politics as a career is deeply entrenched in this country, and even term limits don't address the problems that it causes. It wasn't always that way, but few of us have the ability to envision things being any different.

Speaking strictly about the national level, how do you feel about efforts to encourage healthy and sustainable eating at the national level? Are you OK with Michelle Obama's actions and advocacy regarding food choice?

I think the FLOTUS talking about that kind of subject is a whole lot more appropriate than it would be for most other people.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #171)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:43 PM

175. So in answer to my key question, what is an effective course of action regarding climate change?

If politicians at all levels are inherently and irredeemably out for themselves--and more importantly, if all of their actions are bound to be ineffective and wrong-headed--then what is the hope of challenging climate change before it causes an even wider scale of devastation than it already has?

What is your answer to the numerous logistical questions I presented to you?

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #175)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:58 PM

178. To me it seems that the problem is so big that it will require major commitments on the part...

 

...of all nations. Global compacts on fossil fuel consumption, the development of alternative energy sources, etc. Cooperation on a scale never seen before.

Small actions aren't necessarily wrong-headed. They're just ineffective. I find the L.A. city council's move that is under discussion here especially dubious because nobody can say with any certainty that asking people who are accustomed to eating meat as a major part of their diet to give it up for one day each week, will result in an actual reduction in the production and consumption of meat. There's nothing to back it up. For all we know, people who do give up meat on Mondays will increase their consumption on other days of the week to offset the lack of meat on Mondays. If that is the case, then meatless Mondays would be pointless. I think there should be some kind of sound science behind a government official giving people dietary advice.

...then what is the hope of challenging climate change before it causes an even wider scale of devastation than it already has?

I believe it's too late for that already. The best hope for mitigating the damage is to get the developed and developing nations to all agree to a serious effort to do the above.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:51 AM

101. Yeah? I lived in LA until two years ago.

They encourage neighbors to nark out their neighbors, if they have leaky faucets or broken sprinkler heads. Then the Water Cops come to the door with a $125 ticket.

I eat a lot less meat than I did a few years ago, but that's NOT the City's business. Letting them get away with this kind of suggestion gives fuel to the RWers who yell about liberals "hating freedom."

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Response to Bette Noir (Reply #101)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:44 AM

102. Do You Lose Sleep Over Right Wing Opinions?


I sure as hell don't---particularly after this most recent election......

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Response to Paladin (Reply #102)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:17 PM

107. sleep? No

but a good part of their loss was due to Republicans over-reaching, believing they have a right to control a woman's body.

We won because people believe we are better than that.

Now, within days of the drubbing, LA City Council thinks they have a right to control what legal substances I put in my stomach.

The irony and hypocrisy are thick-enough you can slice it, but there's probably some zealots here who would deny your right to serve it up.

Now, while reducing beef consumption is a good thing, the city government has no business promoting a policy discouraging a legal activity unless they are willing to reduce the taxes of all food companies in LA by 14%, to cover the one-day-a-week less business.

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Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #107)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:54 PM

110. They don't think they have a legal right to control anything of the sort.

They are endorsing voluntary behaviors that are sustainable and healthy. If the city council members invited citizens to join them in a jog once a week, would everyone be pitching such a snit about that?

Livestock were slaughtered en mass this summer because of a drought and heatwave almost certainly brought on because of climate change--which, given that agriculture is a major source of human driven carbon emissions, is at least partially due to eating habits that are beyond the capacity of the planet to heal. The price of meat and other animal products will rise significantly because of this, if it hasn't already.

In other words, if we don't learn to do things in moderation...like, I don't know, eat rice and beans, or even eggs for heck's sake, ONCE A WEEK, then there's a significant chance that many will be forced to go without meat a lot more often than that.

And quite honestly, I'm not about to freak out that a city that gets almost all of its water from distant sources takes a hardline approach to the preventable waste of said water. It sucks, but you also get ticketed if your tail light goes out, and I don't see anyone jumping down the throat of an "overzealous police state for that."

Seriously, complaining about the suggestion that maybe we could bring our food consumption in line with what is actually sustainable is about as "first world problems" as it gets. Go talk to farmers in the Sahel, who have watched their region's entire capacity to produce food dry up because of climate change, about how rough you have it because a city council in America asked you to think about not eating meat. Once a week.

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Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #107)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:13 PM

116. Jeez, Look Who's Griping About "Over-Reaching" (nt)

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Response to Bette Noir (Reply #101)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:00 PM

111. It does occur to you that LA gets almost all its water from somewhere else, right?

Preventable waste of that water is kind of horrific, given the number of people in the world who die every day from a lack of potable water. Granted, I understand that sometimes life gets away from you. Sometimes you don't have the time or money to deal with a leaky faucet.

Tickets suck. As a person who has had to share rice with her dogs to survive, I know that tickets can be a huge and unfair burden on the poor, and if you have a better way to deal with problems like these, let me know about it because I'd love to see it.

But the reality is I don't honestly see a ticket like the one you describe being any different from a ticket for a broken tail light. Wasting water and driving with improper illumination doesn't just create problems for you; it creates problems for other people.

The fact that we blather on about how we need to save the environment, while remaining clueless about how our careless resource use impacts that environment or the millions of people who live in the places that have been stripped of their own resources to gratify our desires, is really pretty infuriating.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:38 AM

21. Except that isn't what they're doing, Nancy Kneejerk. Are you forced into a church on Easter?

Shove turkey down your throat on Thanksgiving? Salute a soldier on Memorial Day or Veteran's Day? No, no you are not, so quit your bellyaching. They're asking people to voluntarily participate in an activity (that is well-meaning but ultimately just symbolic) that is easy and has good benefits for public health and the environment. I'm happy as an omnivore, I lurv mah meats, but I could easily skip a day without whining about it like a toddler.

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:44 AM

24. I hope you enjoy your Tofurkey

 

As has been pointed out by others here, Los Angeles is a very culturally diverse place. I can't imagine very many Indians (other than those who are vegetarian already) giving up their chicken, or Mexican-Americans eschewing carne asada or pork because the city council suggested it.

You seem to have missed my point completely.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:34 PM

42. "Tofurkey" and "Tuesday is Soylent Green Day"

 

Thanks for those.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:58 PM

51. What part of "voluntary" and "symbolic" confuses you so?

Are you now suggesting the LA city council is being culturally insensitive because... cultures eat meat? Hurp durp, White America is a meat-eating culture too in case you hadn't noticed, and they're just as free to eat or not eat meat as they choose. Never mind your point, I think you've lost the script in your impotent rage.

And did everyone notice his little dig at me with "tofurkey" after I'd already said I lurv mah meats? That speaks volumes.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:13 PM

69. I grew up and have eaten Comida Mexicana most of my life. Refritos frijoles and eggs IS breakfast.

But simply pintos and corn tortillas make a complete protein. Millions of people survived on this for centuries when meat wasn't available:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/402969-are-pinto-beans-a-complete-protein/

The Aztecs also used chia seeds on long journeys to supply needed amino acids and they are popular now:

http://www.ehow.com/about_6325757_chia-seeds-health-information.html

And you couldn't pay me to eat Tofurkey or Turducken, either. It's best to recognize your food. Those who push for a plant based diet know the importance of knowing what you eat.

The more processing, the more cost and less nutrition, or at least that's my opinion. I hope that everyone else's varies.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:57 PM

95. if you think Thanksgiving is on a Monday, LOL, you have no idea what you're talking about

again.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:10 PM

120. I am a vegetarian, but have never cared for Tofurkey. n/t

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:32 PM

153. cheese enchiladas

We skip meat for that anytime we can

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:45 AM

25. This may be the best response ever given on DU.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:42 AM

22. I'm sure it's only a suggestion, not a mandate. Fish for Fridays was cultural, not a law.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:46 AM

26. It's a suggestion that will be laughed at by a few, ignored by most

 

Count me among the laughing faction.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:58 AM

32. I wouldn't mind being given the option of a good meatless meal at a restaurant, if I ate out.

Some people cannot afford to buy meat, not only in much of the world, but here as well. It's a luxury.

Why all the hostility, the need to ridicule it?

They're speaking to people who want to save the environment since factory farming pollutes, improve health, since very heavy consumption of meat has its hazards per doctors, and vegans who want to feel better. about their food choices.

Are those impulses things you don't value?

What's so offensive about that?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #32)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:05 PM

35. You already have that option, unless you live in a small town or a rural area

 

They're speaking to people who want to save the environment since factory farming pollutes, improve health, since very heavy consumption of meat has its hazards per doctors, and vegans who want to feel better. about their food choices.

They're politicians attempting to create the appearance of "caring" in order to increase their chances of getting re-elected.

Would you care to speculate on the likelihood of all 12 council members personally complying with the suggestion?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:25 PM

38. Getting re-elected by voters who agree with it, is wrong, how? If they're the majority?

Speculate on the council members complying with the suggesion? Why bother, they aren't ordering anyone, so there would be no hypocrisy. This is a theme in large cities, nothing original or political involved. I'm not interested in the personal eating habits of the council members, why is that an issue?

I'm sure these guys didn't make this up and are not trying to force anyone to do anything. Some group suggested it, a group of citizens, who had every right to do so. They agreed.

And this is not a mandate, urban or rural, so the option should be for the person to eat what they want. Burger King offers a meatless burger. Why should the rural, if that's what you're saying, refuse to sell a meatless meal?

But L.A. is urban, as I'm sure you know. And it's also home to vegetarians, vegan and raw foodists cuisines, as I'm sure you also know. They have a culture of eating they celebrate, with each other.

I'm still not getting why this offends you. I'm not that excited about it, as I am one of those who can't afford the effects of heavy meat consumption anymore, nor the cost. But I know that being vegetarian or vegan is 'trendy,' and some practice it for religious reasons, just like Catholics eating fish on Fridays. I have never objected that being offered in restaurants.

Let and let live, I say.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:24 AM

128. I can tell you why it offends that poster

because liberal policies offend that poster, for the most part.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #128)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:58 AM

130. It's amazing how thoroughly your personal bias against me prevents you from seeing the truth

 

I'm offended by AUTHORITARIAN policies, even ones that are presented with no real authority to back them up.

As a Chinese co-worker once told me:

"A left jack boot up your ass feels no better than a right jack boot up your ass."

HTH

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:58 PM

96. it's great that you think the worst of our Democrats and liberals in office

that when they do something liberal, you criticize them and then attack the sincerity of the action itself.

if they did something Republican, perhaps then you would like it?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #96)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:04 AM

133. I don't regard the members of the L.A. city council as liberals in any sense of the word

 

Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:29 AM - Edit history (4)

They're corrupt career politicians, motivated mainly by money and power.

Why don't you send them all an email asking what they ate for dinner last night?

I know they wouldn't respond to me, since I don't live there.

ETA I know this will fall on deaf ears, but a REAL liberal wouldn't accept a feel-good proclamation that a meatless Monday suggestion would actually reduce the amount of meat consumed in a given population.

I was brought up to be curious and inquisitive, and to question authority at all times especially when the party claiming authority offers no documentary evidence that what is being said has any connection to the real world.

In science there is a thing called the null hypothesis - That which is to be assumed in the absence of repeatable evidence to the contrary. You can't get away (at least in science) with suggesting that there is some kind of effect without designing and conducting a study to rule out the possibility that there is no effect, or a DIFFERENT effect than the one hypothesized.

Suppose I had opted for bean soup last night (Monday) rather than the carne asada taco that I ate. If it turns out that on Tuesday night I'm especially hungry and eat two carne asada tacos or a burrito rather than my customary one taco, the net effect on meat consumption by me is zero.

Has anyone in this thread considered the possibility that what the L.A. city council said was just hot air? Many have pointed out that reducing consumption of meat can have benefits to personal health and to the environment. The Astute Reader(TM) will note that I have never argued to the contrary. For the record, I agree with those positions. But I am not willing to accept on blind faith that someone declaring Mondays to be meatless will result in a reduction in the overall consumption of meat without seeing actual proof.

Being a vegetarian in real life involves a lot more than not eating meat. It requires systematic adjustments to the entire diet including ways of coping with cravings for meat (which many vegetarians admit having,) not just the menu selection one day out of seven.

I submit that the L.A. city council has no intention of trying to measure the actual effect of the meatless Monday suggestion, and probably has no way to do so even if they cared about results.

If people are content with sunshine, rainbows, and lollipops, so be it. I find reality a lot more interesting and entertaining.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #133)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:44 PM

149. They aren't your city council and you mainly are criticizing them because they did something liberal

with few exceptions, that's when you criticize people here --when they do something liberal.

it's getting old man.

you live in San Diego and you're telling people in LA that they have the wrong city council people.

take off.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #149)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:45 PM

154. Your brand of liberalism is not sacrosanct on DU. This board is for Democrats of all stripes.

 

I was raised to think critically and not to reflexively sign on to every idea that is presented with good intentions, or the appearance thereof.

If my doubts about the wisdom or the motivations of the L.A. City council bother you, the proper responses are to try to refute what I wrote, to hit the Alert button, or to ignore me. I will not be intimidated by anyone telling me to "take off," so don't waste your time with bullying tactics. I think you are capable of better behavior.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #154)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:06 PM

155. liberalism IS sacrosanct on DU, absolutely

you don't really post any of it, so you may not be familiar with it.

(and that's not an attack --for some reason, pointing this out makes you feel attacked)

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #155)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:16 PM

162. Holy, inviolable, immune from criticism

 

You may have a point there, but you obviously haven't read anything I've posted about mental health issues.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #162)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:19 PM

164. nobody said "free from criticism", but free from criticism simply because it is liberalism

and your hostility to our issues across the board is what people are reacting to.

how many threads does this happen? look at this one and many of the others, for years now, all for the same reason.

people argue vociferously with you because you don't like ideas that most here hold and you mock liberals incessantly.

so you have a couple one-off issues. yippee.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #164)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:33 PM

168. As I have posted here repeatedly, giving people dietary advice without a scientific basis is not...

 

...something I consider to be a tenet of liberalism.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #168)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:37 PM

170. it is based on science

but you're moving the goalposts.

first you were criticizing them because the suggestion of something that would be good for your health and good for the environment (even if just a gesture and in a small way) somehow offended your god-given right to not be offended by anything (let alone a city councilman in a city 100 miles away from you).

now you're not saying the councilman is bad, just that he doesn't have the right degree to talk about climate change and the council doesn't have the right expertise to sign onto substantial idea that is based on science and nutrition.

first you attack it from the right, and now you're attacking it as not being sound science (which is also like attacking it from the right).

whatever. so transparent it's hurting my eyes.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #170)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:40 PM

172. Show me the science that demonstrates that asking meat-eaters to give up meat one day each week...

 

...results in a reduction in meat consumption over time.

That's the core question, and you haven't made any attempt to address it.

Without actual evidence it's NOT SCIENCE. It's pretend science.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #172)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:44 PM

176. so now you're saying it's scientifically valid *if* people follow the advice

but that since there's no proof they'll follow it, then we shouldn't even suggest it.

my god, we need to give an award of some sort for this.



i wish you would argue this hard for universal health care and universal free higher education.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #176)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:00 PM

179. I'd like to see what happens in a controlled situation with volunteers who WILL follow the advice...

 

Last edited Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

...and have their consumption of all foods monitored in great detail over time. On Mondays, no meat. Tuesdays through Sundays, they eat whatever they want. No other rules. (ETA there would of course have to be a control group of some kind to get baseline measurements.)

Designing experiments and analyzing results. That's how you tell whether or not a recommended behavior change would have the desired effect. But the L.A. city council doesn't care whether or not its advice would be helpful to people, nor have they thought about the possibility that it might actually be harmful.

Science education is dead in my country.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #154)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:07 PM

156. You aren't being "centrist" you're mocking a health and environmental campaign with right wing snark

here's some examples from this thread alone. the folks at Free Republic would love your stuff!

"arrogant nanny-state psychos"

"one small step from there to "Tuesday is Soylent Green Day." "

"Typical authoritarian knee-jerk reaction

"If people won't cooperate voluntarily with our obviously good idea, we'll force them to"

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:14 PM

37. The worst kind of nannyism.

I can accept government regulations and requirements that tell producers to label what is in their food -- especially in a nation of 300 million people and food produced and shipped in from around the world.

I can also accept associations of people trying to persuade me about what is good or bad to eat.

But government in a free democracy has no business telling me how and what to eat.

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Response to earthside (Reply #37)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:55 PM

65. 'The worst kind of nannyism'? Surpassing transvaginal ultrasounds, criminalizing abortion and...

Denying same-sex couples the right to marry under a secular government, destroying public schools for religion, rate a lot higher than a feel-good measure on eating a plant based diet on my personal list of undesireable government intrusions.

The 'government small enough to fit in a woman's uterus' laws are very personal and much more oppressive to many of us, and cause much more harm to many for life in terms of infringing on our freedom to live as we choose.

'Nannyism' is a term the right uses to denigrate all liberal and progressive policies such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. We'll just have to respectfully disagree on this.

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Response to earthside (Reply #37)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 PM

84. It's a voluntary suggestion.

And for someone with earth in your name and your avatar, I would think you would be more aware of and concerned about the implications of a meat intensive diet on global carbon emissions. Here's a link that very specifically breaks down the impact of the increases in meat consumption over the last century.

http://www.vaclavsmil.com/wp-content/uploads/docs/smil-article-2002-pdr2003.pdf

The fact is that agriculture is one of the biggest producers of carbon emissions (while ironically being the most dependent upon a stable climate to continue feeding us. This summer the intense drought forced farmers to slaughter their livestock en mass. If drastic efforts aren't made to bring our consumption habits in line with the capacities of the planet, you won't have the choice to go without meat once a week, you will be forced to go without it (and who knows what else?) most of the time.


People jump all over the climate change bandwagon without the foggiest clue about the very real and very drastic work which must be done to curb it. We know a whole lot about what the major sources of carbon are, and what aspects of our system must be changed to reduce those outputs. The fact is, massive increases in meat consumption are a significant factor in the fossil fuel requirements of our food system, and in the amount of greenhouse gases, both CO2 and methane, that are produced.

You don't have to stop eating meat if you don't want to. But I support it when cities encourage carpooling, usinig public transportation, switching to reusable rather than disposable items, and restoring a sustainable food system and food consumption habits.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #84)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:58 PM

109. +1000 Very well said!

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Response to earthside (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:50 PM

177. they aren't telling you how to eat

they are saying that how we all eat effects the world, each other and the future of the world.

if merely *hearing* that annoys you, then i don't know what to do with you.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:29 PM

39. True. Also vegetarians are not always healthy.

 

They often make up by eating a higher amount of carbs.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:37 PM

94. I am 73 years old and have been vegetarian for the past 15 years.

And I am healthier than most meat eaters that I know. And no, I do not eat a high amount of carbs. I just do not eat any animal products. But I do eat dairy products.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #94)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:42 PM

100. Not all but it is a problem

 

especially for those new to vegetarianism. I am not one myself so I am going by what those who are tell me. From what i understand making the transition is not easy and they made some mistakes in the beginning.

Personally I go meatless sometimes just because I want to. MY mother never liked red meat and still doesn't and we grew up with meat as a small portion of our meal. My father was a meat eater but was particular about cuts of meat and he also fished which we ate a lot of. So it's not a big deal to me and I sometimes believe that is why we don't have cholesterol and heart problems in our family.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #100)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:13 PM

121. Fish is the only meat that I will eat.

But I do not eat anything with hair, fur or feathers.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:54 PM

48. they aren't your city's government

you don't set the rules for governments you don't live under to follow.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM

77. LOL, let me know when LAPD starts raiding supermarkets!

Until then, "telling people what they should and should not eat" is a mis-representation of this non-binding resolution by the LACC. If you want to know about a gov that is bossing adults' dietary choices go to New York City with its ban on super size sodas sales.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:40 PM

98. who's job is it?

we all have and we all share that responsibility. I'm tired of "it's not MY job" and "it's not THEIR job"... the city can put the idea out there, as a service to their constituents, and let them decide. By raising the question they may educate a few people. But if we keep passing the buck... "it's not my job" ... then how does anything get done?

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:36 PM

61. Eat as much meat as you like, the best thing you can do for the environment

 

is to not reproduce.

Vegetarians with a kid are worse than carnivores with a vasectomy

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #61)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:47 PM

81. There are sustainable levels at which meat can be consumed.

There are sustainable levels at which children can be born.

If everyone who is *currently alive* in America continues to consume the products of our agricultural system as it currently operates, catastrophic climate change is a certainty.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:32 PM

78. What about hunting? Maybe it's time to eat deer now?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #78)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:45 PM

80. Well sure; I slaughtered a chicken myself this afternoon.

There are ecologically manageable levels at which animal products can be produced and consumed, and the fact is that animals products contain high quality proteins, b-vitamins, and other essential nutrients at levels that can be critical, especially for pregnant or lactating women and children. It is only the sheer amount of meat and other animal products that we consume in this country, and the systems that go into constantly furnishing us with that amount, that is destructive.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #80)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:56 PM

83. So how can the law prevent the cruelty of factory farming?

From what I know, the "free range" label has this loop hole where the farmer opens the broiler whatever it is holding the animals for the one day the inspector comes, the inspector says OK, then SLAM! back into the crowd the animals go. But is there any way of preventing such treatment without the government putting surveillance cameras in the farms? And what to do about surplus cows, pigs, chickens, etc.? Release them to the wild and let nature deal with them?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #83)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:07 PM

85. I don't really understand why you're asking this question in relation to the OP...

I don't think this specific recommendation by the city council addresses factory farming cruelty. I think laws are a start to addressing factory farming cruelty--perhaps most specifically by changing grain subsidies so that it is not artificially cheaper to feed confined cows corn (with a rather crappy conversion ratio), rather than having them graze. But culture change, such as the LA City Council's recommendations, could be a part of reducing demand such that factory farms are no longer a profitable model.

Lastly, I seriously doubt that meat consumption is going to drop off drastically enough that there will be unwanted cows and chickens. On the contrary, climate change decreased grain production so much this summer that farmers had to slaughter their livestock en mass, because they couldn't afford to feed them. Even if there was such a sudden reduction in demand, you can freeze and/or preserve meat for a pretty long time.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:30 PM

40. "nanny state"??? that's a right wing term and LA's advice is environmentally sound

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:47 PM

113. Would you care to place a wager on the likelihood that all 12 council members will comply with...

 

...their own suggestion?

The smart money is on some animals being more equal than others.

Meanwhile, down here in San Diego County, we have not just one but TWO equestrian circuses with performances beginning this week. We also have plenty of potholes that need to be filled, in case the L.A. council members are in need of real work to do.

BTW, calling something a "right wing term" is the cheapest of cop-outs. It's a thinly veiled personal attack.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #113)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:50 PM

119. "Nanny state" is a right wing term and going meat-free one day per week is sound advice

both those things are true.

your ranting against it confirms my ongoing opinion (based on your posts) that you don't care about the next generation's resources and want to change any of your behaviors, investments or anything to make the world a better place for the next generation.

oh, except to make sure they can buy more guns.



does that bother you? it would bother me if I held those opinions too.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #119)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:03 AM

132. I think people should decide for themselves what is best for them to eat, and how much of it

 

...your ranting against it confirms my ongoing opinion (based on your posts) that you don't care about the next generation's resources and want to change any of your behaviors, investments or anything to make the world a better place for the next generation....

I think the best way to make the world a better place for the next generation would be to stop taking more and more power away from individuals and families.

People will do the right thing most of the time, when they are given real information and real choices.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #132)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:47 PM

151. do you hate Spare the Air days? where we're encouraged to drive less?

you just rail at liberal stuff.

if you aren't a conservative, odds are that you're a strict libertarian.

except, unlike good libertarians, you look down your nose at people in Los Angeles because of the city council they've elected.

(it's not your damned city)

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #151)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:12 PM

159. You seem to be having a hard time staying on topic

 

And spending a lot of time responding to everything I post.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #159)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:25 PM

165. you are against the vegetarian day, so you are against the "don't drive day" too, right?

your posts here indicate that.

is one okay and the other is not?

there are rules against burning in old style fireplaces when pollution is high --against those too?

you don't like rules, fine. but your dislike of rules is not okay because you aren't the center of the universe. the idea is that children with asthma should get to breathe, and that grandchildren of the current generation should not suffer because you resented being asked to make *any* small change to your lifestyle to better the planet.

the mere REQUEST of your help makes you resentful.

maybe you are libertarian. that seems to be the common thread in your posts ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

is it not?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #165)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:35 PM

169. Wow, I can't imagine how you could have missed the point any more thoroughly

 

that seems to be the common thread in your posts ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

The most common thread in your posts seems to be following me around and responding to almost everything I write.

There's a word that people sometimes use to describe that kind of behavior.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #169)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:41 PM

173. No I liked this idea before you came to this thread to dump all over it with anti-liberal bile

And how many people here liked the idea before you came to rain on the parade. not from the left, "we should do more" but from the right, "don't do anything" --one better, "don't even *suggest* anything".

it's like Sarah Palin treats Michelle Obama.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #173)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:43 PM

174. If you can show me that the idea has actual merit, I might like it too

 

But nobody is presently able to do that, and it seems that insisting on proof is frowned upon by you and a few others.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:50 PM

108. "George, tell me about the rabbits again."

Implying it's merely one step from a city council suggestion to reduce meat consumption to mandatory cannibalism is not the most stupid thing I've ever read... and that episode of Happy Days when Fonzie jumps a bunch of sharks in his motorcyle was television at its best.


"George, tell me about the rabbits again."

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:16 AM

11. Who can afford meat anyway?

See? Cup O Noodles isn't poverty food, it's trendy!

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:19 AM

13. It's A Suggestion, Not An Edict.


I'd tell the usual group of DU libertarians to lighten the hell up, but I know how much they enjoy their imaginary persecution complexes. Y'all play nice with one another.......

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Response to Paladin (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:37 AM

20. I'll ditto that!

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:43 AM

23. Agreed. And sometimes a meatless day will even settle a person down.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:26 AM

15. Excellent

I had no idea this movement existed.. off my radar screen, certainly am very happy to see one of the largest consumption/polluter communities take enverionmental health and sustainability matters seriously enough to bring this to a resolution, thereby at least getting it the attention it needs to get the ball rolling.... thanks for posting this item and bringing it to my attention.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:27 AM

16. pigs are dogs

are people too. I'll never understand how people can know the suffering and go on contracting the torture. Switched to plant-based and everyone is better off. You can boycott cruelty, GO VEGAN!

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Response to veganlush (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:48 AM

28. +1

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Response to veganlush (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:37 PM

62. Er ... no.

 

Pigs are not dogs or people.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:33 AM

17. Does chicken count as meat?

I think it can be just as unhealthy

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Response to animato (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:47 AM

27. If it's a dead animal, it's meat.

Hell, if people would open their eyes (and their palates), they'd realize that eating a plant based diet (or even an animal based diet with increased consumption of plant foods) would result in lower cholesterol, higher energy, fewer digestive problems, decreased allergies, significantly reduced risk of heart disease, stroke, cancer (of all kinds), etc.

They'd also realize that factory farming is one of the largest contributors to not only climate change, but pollution in general (many recent salmonella and e-coli outbreaks are directly linked to factory farms that are near the farms where other things are grown (such as the spinach incident a few years back that was directly traced to a nearby pork farm).

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:03 PM

93. As a vegetarian, the question I am asked the most:

So you eat fish, right? I tell them no. They usually give me the "why?" look.

Um, no...that falls under meat for me.

I finally started telling people: If it EVER had a BEATING HEART, I don't eat it.

Then there is the whole thing where I guess they confuse vegan with vegetarian. Example, we had a breakfast buffet at work last week and a co worker saw me heading to the breakroom. First thing he said was "don't bother, there is nothing in there YOU can eat". Ok, well, thanks for your faux concern, I still want go look. While there were a few meat items, the rest was waffles, eggs, donuts, juices.

I have a manager who was offering to go to an onsite store we have that has groceries/snacks/goodies,etc.. and he was telling everyone he would get them munchies or whatever and I guess he took their preferences on what they wanted. Afterwards, he tells me that he WOULD have asked me but he knew there was NOTHING down there I could eat, anyway.

Nooo problem...I've gotten used to them not understanding, I just bring my own snack items and lunch to work. Especially since the lunch buffets they serve up sometimes is all meat (burgers, hot dogs, chicken) and they said to me one time: "um, there are potato chips you can have". Thanks, but no thanks, I need something a little more filling than a plate of chips for lunch!






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Response to rainbow4321 (Reply #93)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:48 PM

97. If it had a face or a mother

Many Asian countries have no meat cafeterias at all schools, and school and corporate mandatory calisthenics.
that's who we compete with. On the other hand ,they have things like caning and broad censorship.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:37 AM

19. My family is in Illinois and we've been at this for about a year.

My family moved to the Chicago area from farming communities, so we grew up eating meat 3 meals a day.
We occasionally struggle to come up new menu ideas, so I'm wondering what Meatless Monday menu items you've tried.
Suggestions?

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:50 AM

29. My immediate thought...

is spaghetti and a meatless sauce! Which is what we had for dinner last night because the refrig was absolutely bare! There was probably some old ice-crystaled stuff (including meat) in the freezer but I was late walking the dog and then in a panic to get something on the table.

Spaghetti
Hunt's Garlic and Herb Pasta Sauce (yup, in the can!) / big drizzle of EVOO after dishing up.
Frozen green beans, steamed
Fresh carrots chopped, steamed
Applesauce cups (for those that wanted)
Garlic Bread (well, it was just heavily toasted toast with margarine and garlic powder)

...and I had a glass of "two-buck-chuck" red.

Another aspect of this is, could the above been any cheaper? You could get cheap meats to add but this was even less money. With the winter months now on, a hearty soup / stew with tons of veggies, beans and/or grains served with a chewy, stout bread...yummy, makes me hungry now.

This would be a great topic for the Home & Family / Cooking & Baking area.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:58 AM

33. My favorite.

 

Stir fry various peppers, onions, garlic, and portobello mushrooms in a little olive oil. Serve over brown rice or even pasta if you like. You can also add grated ginger if you like the taste.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:22 PM

103. A wonderful food from Indonesia,

tempeh. Steam it first, then fix it many different ways. Unless you live in a hip-food place, you'll find it in the frozen foods.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:21 PM

105. I have been advising friends and family to try these:

Both at Trader Joe's:

> Meatless Italian Sausage

--- I am part Italian (1/4) and born in North Jersey to an Italian mom (1/2) - I was raised on Italian Sausage - TJs meatless sausage is delicious, with all the right spices and texture .... We love it ... I wish they made a HOT version, but I could always just add crushed red pepper if I really need the heat ...

> Soyrizo

--- Again ... Another great meat replacement ... Makes GREAT spicy eggs, and seems to work best when used sparingly, making it stretch out for 3-4 meals .... Use in breakfast burritos with eggs, cheese, onion, peppers, yum .... Everybody loves it ...



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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:51 AM

30. What's almost as bad as the right?

 

The ultra-left in Cali.

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Response to Ter (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:04 PM

54. Yeah!!! You should see us here in San Francisco...

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

When we walk up and down these hills we are ALL leaning to the ultra left!!! Right on! I mean, Left on!!!

HERE IS Typical San Francisco guy!!!

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #54)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:04 PM

68. When do we get to see...

larger pics of you?

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #68)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:30 PM

73. I thought I had a workable link but I don't, for my photo album.

Maybe one of these days I will post some photos..

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #54)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:20 PM

70. LOL! Love it.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #54)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:55 PM

106. LOL - that pic brings back memories

of sore calves and hamstrings! It was a major effort to take a stroll to the corner store. Forget walking home from the bars, we spent a fortune in cabs. I never got used to it.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:02 PM

114. with the typical SAAB falling apart in the background

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:13 PM

118. A can of V-8 would fix that problem

 

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:54 AM

31. It's fine if it is voluntary. I sometimes go meatless anyway.

 

Try to take away my juicy cheeseburger and someone loses fingers.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:59 AM

34. I think it's a great idea and find it sad that so many are so defensive about it.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:09 PM

36. Ditto to you

and lalalu.

And defensive at even the suggestion (which is all this will be), that people do this.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:27 PM

71. It's a personal and cultural thing. 'My mom fed me bacon and she loved me! Don't say she was wrong!'

Food is full of emotional triggers that lead back to feelings of family, love and community. Not the food itself, but the memories that the smell and taste evoke.

So it's logical that some are very defensive about it. They think you're interfering with their security. Or culture or family. It's simliar to the Apple vs. Microsoft thing.

No use being authoritarian and this little announcement didn't stop anyone from eating meat. But I think I understand the emotions here, and I'm not putting anyone down.

Frequently I long to eat the foods of my childhood, what was shared at family gatherings, although it's no longer appropriate for me. So I don't try to convert anyone, I just ask for tolerance for all lifestyles.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:31 PM

41. How about having fewer children. What about that environmental impact.

It's magnitudes more important than meat.

Good lord. When do we begin the real discussions? Green this, and meat that. What utter bullshit.

It's the population, STUPID.

edit- Dons flameproof suit for upcoming onslaught of replies from all of the people who I just offended.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:45 PM

43. You get applause from me.

 

I will also stand by with a fire extinguisher

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:51 PM

45. Health is the primary reason. Nothing to do with population. nt

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:53 PM

47. Doug Stanhope.......Sodomy is Eco-Friendly and Abortion is Green

&feature=related

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #47)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:01 PM

52. That was hilarious

 

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:38 PM

63. And yet suggesting that will get you berated by even the greenest vegan

 

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:51 PM

46. That would not be a problem with me.

I am a vegetarian 7 days a week.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:55 PM

49. I've always hated the idea of meatless Mondays

Or Fridays or whatever (I guess the Monday alliteration is catchier). I've always thought it should be meatFUL Friday. And go veg the rest of the week. To me that sounds like the optimal frequency of eating meat for the body and the environment. Once a week is about how often I eat meat. Without even trying.

I know, I know ... baby steps.

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Response to Ratty (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:20 PM

57. THAT is such a great idea...

and I've never thought of that.

But, yes, baby steps.

And the sheer panic of getting meals on the table sometimes...I make "it", serve "it", eat "it" and then think, sheesh, why did I use "it".

Popcorn anyone?

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #57)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:46 PM

74. I only have to cook for myself.

Plus I don't really know how to cook meat except for chicken. Meat kinda scares me. Pot roasts, steaks, thanksgiving turkeys ... all very mysterious to me. That's probably more the reason I don't actually eat meat that often.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:56 PM

50. From the way people are reacting to this, you'd think they'd actually outlawed meat.

Calling something Meatless Monday to encourage people to not eat meat on that day isn't a law and it's not forcing anything on anybody.

It's no different than having a "World No Tobacco Day".

It's to bring awareness, not enforcement.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:02 PM

53. Good idea...

We certainly eat far more meat than is necessary. Of course, moderating our intake 7 days a week would have the same result but the whole idea of a campaign such as this one is to raise public awareness. It is most certainly the job of government to educate the citizenry about public health and environmental crises.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:17 PM

56. I only have 1- 2 meals of meat a week,

We have more fish, beans & veggies. Live by ocean & hubby like to fish!

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:23 PM

58. I remember we did that as kids on Fridays so we could get into Heaven. nt

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:34 PM

59. I've cut down on meat consumption in general but mostly to save money

 

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:35 PM

60. People are Already Grouchy Enough on Mondays...

...without adding meat cravings on top of it all.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:45 PM

64. How effective are these sorts of ...

... PR campaigns? I can't imagine it making much difference in a city as diverse as LA.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #64)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:31 PM

104. It is like planting a seed. It gets watered,

cared for, and eventually bears fruit.

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Response to roody (Reply #104)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:04 PM

115. No, it's like planking..

everybody talks about it for a week and does their "Woo Hoo!", then it's dead...thankfully


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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:55 PM

66. Story in Ag news about this at



Apparently the university was opening a new dining hall with expanded vegetarian options and the HSUS tied it to a "Meatless Monday" promo after hearing of it. People got bent out of shape and they had to change the marketing stuff, but the cafeteria is still going ahead as planned, because there is demand.

That probably means demand in the community going forward for new business outside the university. Probably more sustainable in the local economy than a feedlot. I wonder if farming Tilapia raised in conjunction with the veggies might work as well.

Here.

How you market it is important.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:59 PM

67. Sorry, couldn't resist....

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:29 PM

72. Susan Feniger's new restaurant, "Street" offers a meatless Monday menu

I'm dying to go there. Foodies are into it.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:51 PM

75. I couldn't be a vegetarian for even one day

 

however I do my part, I don't by store bought meat, we hunt my own meat, we have our own vegetable garden.
But that's just me, I like the taste of wild game.
If LA wants to recommend this, more power to them, however, I think very few people will follow their advice.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:59 PM

76. Voluntary is OK.

But if it became non-voluntary (e.g. restaurants can't serve meat one then two then three ... days a week) I would have a hard time seeing the difference in this and women having choice. It is a person's own body.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:40 PM

79. So what have Perry and Reyes done about food deserts in LA that LACK fresh produce?

If LA wasn't afflicted by poverty and food deserts I'd be jumping up and down about this resolution. Problem is, how will this Meatless Monday message get across to the working-class communities in South Central or East LA that LACK stores with fresh produce, so people there end up NEEDING meat for a decent meal!

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Response to alp227 (Reply #79)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:08 PM

117. Doing real work is too hard. So is science and stuff.

 

I can't escape two thoughts that immediately came to mind when I read this story:

1. Even if some people adopt the meatless Monday concept, it won't necessarily reduce their overall consumption of meat. People who are used to eating something regularly tend to crave it more when they haven't had it recently. Not only that, but actual research shows that MOST people who switch to a vegetarian diet eventually switch back to eating meat.

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/most-vegetarians-return-to-eating-meat/

2. Shit that politicians say is just shit that politicians say. It's unfortunate that so many people are too naive to comprehend that.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #117)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:11 PM

158. Reyes has done more than you about Climate Change and certainly more for LA than you

http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2012/08/15/27905/los-angeles-parking-rules-initiative-city-council/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Reyes

looks like he's working to make his city a better place and help it be a better influence on the world.

and i'll bet most of the things he's doing you oppose.

but lazy? again, if you oppose liberalism, then that explains all of this. and you do oppose it. you post and snark here daily your disdain for liberal ideas, liberal politics and most liberal politicians.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #158)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:13 PM

160. Mr. Reyes is a recognized authority on land use and urban planning

 

Not diet and nutrition, or agriculture.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #160)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:29 PM

166. so you're saying he can't weigh in on those topics LMAO

because he doesn't have the necessary paperwork that satisfies the Slackmaster accreditation.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #166)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:32 PM

167. Says the guy who thinks I shouldn't weigh on on something the L.A. city council said

 

...because I don't live there.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:38 PM

86. You can have my burger when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. n/t

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:39 PM

87. Not eating meat is a good first step...

But, it isn't a solution to health problems all by itself. I stopped eating meat January this year. My youngest wanted to go vegan. I supported her in that by getting food we could both eat and not eating meat in the house, I quickly that is in a matter of days decided I would go without for a month even if I was by myself. To make a short story long it is very possible to eat unhealthy while not eating meat. Yes, I did start to feel better right away. But, I still had a lot of issues. Mainly I was eating a lot of simple carbs until about a month or so ago. So, if you stop eating meat for health purposes, don't just eat a lot or pasta and cheese pizzas. It's important to add a variety of vegetables, eat whole grains, and make sure your protein source is adequate. I am trying to have more vegan meals now. I will probably never give up cheese completely, but I am currently limiting my cheese intake. I was on some days eating up to 6 oz of cheese, that is too much.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:41 PM

88. I've been increasing our 'meatless' meals for years ....

I (and my family) have been REALLY impressed with Trader Joe's Soyrizo (spicy chorizo) and meatless Italian Sausage ....

I was born to an Italian mom from Greenpoint Brooklyn (back before it was cool), and was raised on Italian Sausage/pasta meals ...

I am quite pleased with their meatless Italian Sausage ... It has all the seasonings and texture of the real deal ...

The Soyizo spices are so strong that I use it sparingly in scrambles or omelettes and can stretch it for four meals .... yum !


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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:49 PM

90. We have meatless Sundays

Of course, we also often have non-meat meals a couple of other times during the week, just because we like them (especially during the summer months, when so many vegetables abound and need to be used up).

But Sundays are reserved for our son and daughter-in-law. They're vegetarians, so I try to make something hearty for them. It could be a vegetable paella, it could be homemade falafel with the fixings, a walnut-carrot-cheese loaf, or a butternut squash and rapini lasagna. Tomorrow we're going to try a mushroom burgundy stew: sort of like boeuf bourguignon, with potatoes and carrots and tons of mushrooms and wine, but without the boeuf.

The hardest part (for me) about vegetarian meals is coming up with ideas.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:16 PM

92. Prior to Vatican 2

this movement was called Friday by the Catholic Church.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:25 PM

99. Portobello Burgers

Stuff the cap with crushed garlic, sliced red onion, ricotta, and mozzarella cheese. Then broil it until cheese melts. Put on a bun with taco or tomato sauce.

If you like mushrooms, it's very good, and filling.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #99)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:16 PM

122. Vegetarian here and I love Portobello mushrooms.

And eat them often.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:51 PM

112. I'll take a Tofu Tuesday too!!

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:18 PM

123. On Mondays I will not eat my 20 oz steak.


I will limit it to 16 oz.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #123)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:53 AM

124. Use Your Savings To Buy More Ammunition. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #124)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:38 AM

125. You too my little gun owning friend.


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #125)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:56 AM

126. I Dunno.......


That 20-ouncer sounds pretty good.....

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:09 AM

127. I had a carne asada taco for dinner last night in solidarity with the meat eaters of Los Angeles

 

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:19 PM

134. No meat on Mondays,

but is fish considered meat?

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Response to mary195149 (Reply #134)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:23 PM

135. Yes. Fish is, for the most part, only meat I eat.

Sushi would be tough for me to kick out of my diet.

Pig, cow, chicken... not so much.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:54 PM

152. Who knew a "food" thread would get this much response:)

I go meatless about 29 days of each month, then if my daughter and son-in-law invite me for dinner on a Sunday I can expect to maybe have meat. My reasoning for this is that I'm on the Social Security diet - can't afford meat anyway

Seriously though, I have not eaten much meat in a long time. It's better for me not to. I just went for a complete physical - the first one in three years (can't afford those either) and the youngish doctor said to me, "I can't believe you're 63 and aren't on any medications." Huh? So now it's unusual not to be taking a cocktail of meds every day? All my lab work came back better than normal. She seemed disappointed that she couldn't write me a prescription for anything.

Unless I have a problem, I won't be going back for another physical for another three years. The farther I stay away from the doctors the healthier I am and the more fruits, grains and veggies I eat the healthier I am and the more money I save. It's a win/win.

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Response to llmart (Reply #152)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:17 PM

163. I'm 54 and eat about 1/5 as much (red) meat as I did in my 20s and 30s

 

I simply can't tolerate it like I could when I was younger.

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