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Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:10 PM

Immigration Reform Effort To Begin In Senate Post-Inauguration

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- Senate Democrats are planning to quickly revisit immigration reform after President Barack Obama's inauguration, according to several Democratic sources.

What type of legislation they will end up pushing has yet to be discussed in detail. But the party feels emboldened by Tuesday's election results, in which Republicans suffered a blistering defeat among Latinos. And there is a sense that the political landscape couldn't be more ripe for a legislative topic that's proved dicey in the past.

"I am optimistic," Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said of immigration reform at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast on Thursday morning. Schumer chairs the immigration subcommittee. "It is a little bit of a mirror image like the fiscal cliff. I think there are a large number of Republicans who understand that the anti-immigrant position, no immigration, we couldn't even pass a STEM bill through the House because the Republican caucus said you can't have a net increase in any immigrants."

A Democratic Senate source who spoke on condition of anonymity told The Huffington Post that the full push for reform won't happen immediately, but will begin soon after Obama starts his second term. The Dream Act, which would give legal status to undocumented young people who came to the U.S. as children, will be included in the efforts, according to the source.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/immigration-reform-senate_n_2093178.html#comments



and if Republicans give in to the baggers and obstruct it, they'll only be digging a deeper hole for themselves.

32 replies, 3694 views

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Immigration Reform Effort To Begin In Senate Post-Inauguration (Original post)
Adenoid_Hynkel Nov 2012 OP
Vincardog Nov 2012 #1
lalalu Nov 2012 #2
leveymg Nov 2012 #3
lalalu Nov 2012 #4
leveymg Nov 2012 #5
lalalu Nov 2012 #6
leveymg Nov 2012 #7
lalalu Nov 2012 #8
leveymg Nov 2012 #9
lalalu Nov 2012 #10
AlphaCentauri Nov 2012 #11
lalalu Nov 2012 #12
AlphaCentauri Nov 2012 #20
lalalu Nov 2012 #22
lunamagica Nov 2012 #13
lalalu Nov 2012 #14
lunamagica Nov 2012 #15
lalalu Nov 2012 #16
lunamagica Nov 2012 #17
lalalu Nov 2012 #18
lunamagica Nov 2012 #19
lalalu Nov 2012 #23
lunamagica Nov 2012 #24
lalalu Nov 2012 #25
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2012 #29
lalalu Nov 2012 #30
pampango Nov 2012 #21
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #26
lalalu Nov 2012 #32
lalalu Nov 2012 #27
lunamagica Nov 2012 #28
lalalu Nov 2012 #31

Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:27 PM

1. Do it. I want PBO to be on the TV asking everyone to call their Congress critter to pass it.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:35 PM

2. It is still dicey.

 

A push for amnesty would be a disaster and wrong. Also if they push the Dream Act it should include a stipulation that anyone who becomes a citizen due to the act cannot sponsor another person.

It is wrong to believe that all Hispanics support illegal immigration. Hispanic Americans are just like other Americans and many do not want amnesty.

Hispanics are just like other Americans who supported President Obama due to many issues and not just immigration.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:16 AM

3. You can't place limits on the rights of naturalized US Citizens. Violates Equal Protection.

Could it be, you just don't like all those swarthy brown people? The election turned on the immigrant vote. Maybe that outcome bothers you as well?

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Response to leveymg (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:24 AM

4. LOL, I don't like "swarthy brown people"?

 

What are you smoking? You got some bad stuff.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:34 AM

5. Ok. Why then do you want to limit the ability of naturalized citizens to sponsor relatives?

And why place limits specifically on them, as opposed to native-born Americans? Just curious as to the origins of that notion you put forward.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:41 AM

6. The Dream Act would be amnesty and can have limitations.

 

Allowing people who become citizens through the Dream Act to sponsor other people would be a back door amnesty for their parents. Amnesty is not going to sell to democrats either and that includes many Hispanic democrats. For your information the majority of Hispanics are here legally and many have been here for several generations.

I know the popular myth is that all Hispanics support illegal immigration and that is why they voted for President Obama. That is a lie. First of all the Hispanic population is not some monolithic group and relegating Hispanics to being concerned with one issue is actually stereotyping.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:16 AM

7. Yes, on their initial legalized status. But, no limits can extend after people naturalize.

You don't seem to understand the distinction between Conditional Resident status and Naturalized US Citizen. While the family sponsorship ability of Alien Residents is already limited, you can't permanently handicap and disadvantage immigrants who later become US Citizens. They have all the rights and privileges of the native-born. Or do you think naturalized US Citizens should be treated differently under the law?

We don't have 2nd Class Citizens in the US.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:31 AM

8. The Dream Act would be an exception.

 

Like it or not the reality is that entering this country illegally is a crime. Essentially the Dream Act would be forgiving their crime with conditions. It can and will have limitations and that is the only way it will pass. Blanket amnesty given in the past was a disaster and people are not going for it again. That includes some very liberal people willing to compromise.

The irony of people trying to push amnesty is that they have done more harm than good for the same people they claim to champion. Cesar Chavez opposed illegal immigration because he knew it would drive down wages and working conditions and he was right. We cannot absorb all the poor workers of the world looking for better conditions. That's just the reality. Population control and pressure to improve conditions in other countries is the real answer.

The labor fight was over improving conditions for workers in this country legally and many battles were won. Reagan favored amnesty for the same reason he favored outsourcing. To hit back at unions and labor groups that had won and to suppress wages. There will be changes along with compromise and conditions as it should be. Contrary to the myth there are a lot of Hispanics who feel that is the proper response.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:46 AM

9. Many immigrants are allowed to legalize their status with various waivers as it is. DREAM doesn't

fundamentally change the status quo of how the existing immigration system already works. It just broadens the category of persons eligible for a waiver of inadmissibility. The 1986 Amnesty wasn't a disaster in any respect, except maybe for the Republican Party when it turned against the immigrant vote.

EOM.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:01 AM

10. Wrong

 

Importing illegal labor had a devastating affect on low skilled American workers. African American and Hispanic American workers were hit hard by the competition and lowering of wages. Their plight was just ignored.

Just as outsourcing was ignored when it hit them first. It only became an issue when it started moving up the ladder and affecting white middle class families.

Once again you have this notion that Hispanics only voted over immigration. Really? Every Hispanic I know was more concerned about social security , healthcare, education and other issues just like other Americans.

I live in one of the most diverse states and areas in this country. I can tell you for a fact there are a lot of democratic Hispanics who oppose illegal immigration and amnesty. It is not as clear cut as some pretend and there will be compromises.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:58 AM

11. Most of this arguments fail to address the problem

What was the distress for African-Americans and hispanic Americans during the golden years of the American economy?

That is during the Reagan-Clinton years? Not illegal immigration, actually many Americans were able to start their small business with undocumented worker but now those same Americans are playing the roll of "patriots" rejecting the hand that made them to rich their goal to become part of the middle class.

Then we have to ask, what is the alternative to "Amnesty" for the 9 million undocumented workers in the US?
I guess is none, so the best approach is Amnesty.
Why bother trying to NOT fix a problem when there is a solution?

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Response to AlphaCentauri (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:02 PM

12. There is reality.

 

I don't know anyone who profited from illegal workers. I do know people who own their own businesses and have played by the rules and had their profit undercut by those who didn't. The people pushing for amnesty and importing illegal labor are major corporations and churches wanting to fill their pews.

Illegal immigration actually picked up during the so called Golden years of the Clinton era and so did the loss of blue collar jobs. The problem is that people in certain economic groups didn't give a damn about Americans at the bottom. I remember well that during the Clinton years they were told they just needed to get better educated and move with the times. In the meantime plans were already in the works to help outsource jobs they were training for. It was all a big scam. Clinton was a big mover in helping China get trade status and outsourced jobs. Just as Hillary made millions helping companies from India get outsourced jobs or bring in VISA workers. It is why I believe we need new people in both parties that sold out American labor.

BTW, most Hispanics did the paper work and entered legally like everyone and have been here for generations. A little known published fact is that in some parts of the country and in some industries a large segment of illegals are white or black. They just get a pass because people assume they are American citizens or entered legally. People would be very surprised to find out who is here illegally. This isn't some exclusive Hispanic issue.

Also the poultry industry where low skilled Americans worked is a glaring example of how importing cheap labor affected American workers. Not only did they have American workers lining up to take the jobs when the feds did their job but some of these places were forced to unionize, raise wages, and improve conditions.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2009-09-13-plants_N.htm?POE=click-refer
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/an-immigration-raid-aids-blacks-for-a-time-467899/

You sound as delusional as the people who keep pushing outsourcing and the global economy. Amnesty is not going to happen again.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:52 PM

20. and reality check

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Response to AlphaCentauri (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:07 AM

22. You are checking nothing

 

First of all the conversation is about people already here. It was mainly about children brought here by their parents.

Also, in several of my posts I specifically stated that there are illegals here of other races and they get a pass. Most Hispanics are here legally and many would be surprised at who is here illegally. It is not a Hispanic issue as I stated previously.

Maybe you should check and read posts first.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:17 PM

13. Did you even read the article?

The majority of voters support a path to citizenship for undocumented aliens. Eve a surprising number of Republicans do.

And why would their citizenship be second class? Every citizen should have the same rights.

Looks like you also don't follow Univision and Telemundo. During this campaign, immigration reform was a top priority, so much so that 90% or more of the ads by both candidates focused on it.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:22 PM

14. Univision and Telemundo?

 

Maybe I would watch them more if they were more diverse. The last time I checked they were as white as a klan rally.
They should actually try representing the diverse Hispanic community themselves.

Maybe you didn't read my post. I said there will be a compromise but there will not be amnesty and that includes any back door amnesty. Polls also show the majority of Americans of all political persuasions are against amnesty. When the poll question asks directly if they favor amnesty the answer is NO.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:31 PM

15. I read your post. Looks like you didn't read the article

The MAJORITY of VOTERS last Tuesday favor a path to CITIZENSHIP. Call it wat you want, but there's support for undocumented immigrants to become citizens of the US.

And whatever you think of the people in front of the cameras at the two major Spanish speaking networks of the US, they have huge number of viewers, in the millions and millions. In many urban markets Univision is the most watched network.

Why do you think both candidates spent so much money there? To reach Hispanics. And both focused on Immigration more than anything else.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:41 PM

16. It isn't about what i think.

 

It is reality. Those stations are completely white and do not represent the diversity of Hispanics. Just as America for years had only white actors on TV. I guess you think that was OK too because millions still watched.

Amnesty is completely different from a path to citizenship. It is why amnesty will not be on the table.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:49 PM

17. No don't think it's OK. But it is what millions of Latinos watch

I don't even know what point you are trying to make here. The OP is about immigration reform. You say Most Hispanics don't see it as an important issue; yet both candidates spent millions to reach viewers on both networks, focusing on immigration. Now you go on a tangent about the make up of the anchors? what the...

And please explain about the difference between Amnesty and a path to citizenship. To me, it is just semantics

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:05 PM

18. Again you should go back and read.

 

Most Hispanics are in this country legally and voted on issues just like other Americans. Immigration is important to Hispanics just as it is to other Americans. It is not the most important or the only important issue. Saying the most important issue to Hispanics is immigration is just like republicans saying the most important issues to Black Americans are welfare and food stamps. Americans came together on a broad set of issues and immigration is just one of them.

I was then asked to explain why I thought there will be some type of compromises on the Dream Act and I explained why. I think this two year renewal deal for young illegal immigrants is crap. Either give them full citizenship or don't. I don't even like renewing my license. The fact is making them citizens and allowing them to then sponsor their parents who brought them here illegally was one of the sticking points preventing them from getting full citizenship. That is just the reality of the situation.

Last, there is a huge difference between amnesty and a path to citizenship. Obviously you must not have been around when amnesty was given. Amnesty starts the ball rolling towards citizenship immediately as long as people can prove they were here before a certain date.

A path to citizenship can take years just to get considered for citizenship. It just gives people a reprieve from being deported until
they move up the line just for consideration. It may also contain a provision that they pay a hefty fine or even leave the country until they move up in line. The difference is not semantics. It can be years and much more costly.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:35 PM

19. Well, then, I guess Obama made a big mistake in not consulting you before spending so much money on

these ads focusing on immigration, and also made a mistake when he went to a forum on Univision and admitted not passing immigration reform was the biggest mistake of his presidency. His staff which spent so much time on research on every group before making these ads. What a waste of time!|

-----------------------------------------

Obama Immigration Stance Locks In Hispanic Support

By NICHOLAS RICCARDI, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS -- Elizabeth Alvisar is exactly the sort of voter Mitt Romney needs.

A victim of the brutal economy in this swing state, the 30-year-old tax preparer has been out of work for months. She's a foe of abortion and gay marriage, and was naturally drawn to the Republican ticket.

But Alvisar has switched her support to President Barack Obama because of his support for legislation known as the DREAM Act. While Democrats failed to get the bill through Congress, Obama in August signed a directive that implemented its key provision - allowing young people brought into the country without authorization as children to avoid deportation if they graduate high school or join the military.

"I have a lot of friends who've taken advantage of that opportunity," Alvisar said.

In the heavily Hispanic neighborhood where Alvisar lives, unemployment is high and home values are down. But Obama's immigration stance, and especially his executive order, has locked in support from a fast-growing demographic group that has been trending sharply Democratic in the wake of increasingly hard-line Republican positions on immigration.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/22/obama-immigration-stance-_n_1999891.html







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Response to lunamagica (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:12 AM

23. Once again you post an article about a Hispanic

 

neighborhood as if that is one homogenous group. An article that also suggests that immigration is the only issue that matters to Hispanics because supposedly they are all here illegally. Seriously? That is your view of Hispanics.

But then again you link from Huffington Post and I am not surprised. Most of you don't even know that the founder was a big Reagan supporter that helped implement policies that destroyed this country and helped keep her ex hubby and his buddies rich. Only suckers believe that woman.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:10 PM

24. Seriously? My view of Hispanics comes from being one

And most Hispanic citizens are related, have friends or neighbor who are hard working, undocumented immigrants. That's why immigration was so important, and that's why both candidates mentioned so much when addressing hispanic voters.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:18 PM

25. Most Hispanics?

 

One of the largest groups of Hispanics in this country are Puerto Rican and they are not illegal. Many Mexican Americans have been here for generations and longer than those assuming they are illegal. Then there are people from Belize who have been coming to America for generations and integrating with the black communities. Now all of a sudden they are being labeled Hispanic although Belize is a former British colony. Like I said it is not a monolithic group and there are divisions over this issue.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:04 PM

29. "Amnesty is completely different from a path to citizenship."

No, it's not. It's exactly the same thing, except that "amnesty" is the right-wing buzz word.

We need comprehensive immigration reform, which includes a path to citizenship for those already here.

And this is a perfect time for it. Obama has had his mandate renewed, and illegal immigration is way down, taking off some of the "first we have to secure the borders" pressure.

Don't like depressed wages because of undocumented workers with no rights? Either make them legal through citizenship or make them legal through work permits, and then they can organize (or not) like other workers to protect their rights. This isn't a zero-sum game.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:26 PM

30. Yes it is completely different.

 

You sound like a republican trying to use Doublespeak.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:18 AM

21. 55% of repubs, 75% of Democrats but only 46% of teabaggers support a path to citizenship

as either the main focus of immigration reform or at least an accepted part of a comprehensive approach to reform.




http://www.people-press.org/2011/12/06/illegal-immigration-gaps-between-and-within-parties/?src=prc-headline

"Hispanic Americans are just like other Americans and many do not want amnesty." 85% of Hispanic Democrats want a path to citizenship included in immigration reform.

Apparently you are belong to the 21% of Democrats who believe that immigration policy should not have a path to citizenship as a priority or a co-priority with border security.

BTW your constant use of the term "amnesty" plays right into the right wing playbook in opposition to a path to citizenship.


Previewing the Right-Wing Playbook on Immigration Reform

Strategy 6: Stop Reform by Shouting 'Amnesty'


Opponents of any legislation that would provide an earned path to citizenship grabbed onto the word "amnesty" and plastered it even on legislation that required fines and significant other requirements for law-abiding immigrants to earn a path to citizenship. Decrying "amnesty" became a way to oppose any reform short of mass deportation without saying so directly, and we should expect "no amnesty" to be a rallying cry of those who oppose any responsible approach to reform. Indeed, Pat Buchanan has written, "'Comprehensive' is the code word for amnesty." He has insisted that "America is now risking national suicide…if a path to citizenship becomes law, nothing will stop the next invasion."

http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/previewing-the-right-wing-playbook-immigration-reform#strategy6

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Response to pampango (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:26 PM

26. I believe you've just outed that one.

Thank you so much for this incredible post.

I was getting tired of the "illegal immigrants" and "amnesty" bullshit it bandied about like a TeaBagger.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:29 PM

32. Reality will show you what the

 

bullshit is. Very soon people will learn that what is touted as a "path to citizenship" is not amnesty. Stay tuned, reality is approaching.

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Response to pampango (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:29 PM

27. Amnesty and a path to citizenship are not the same.

 

Pretending it is just semantics is false. Either democrats get in front of this issue and define it or they can sit back and let republicans do so. So often democrats sit back and play catch up with republicans because they are too worried about offending. The truth is that democrats have kicked this issue down the road just as much as republicans.

Border security is not a right or left issue. When amnesty was passed it was bipartisan with a guarantee of border security. Even labor went along because they felt the economy could absorb those who were here and securing the border would prevent this from happening again. It is not a coincidence that illegal immigration and hiring illegal labor increased after labor and civil rights laws had been passed and implemented. It is a corporate tool to drive down wages and rollback labor rights.

There are going to have to be two paths and democrats need to face that reality and start planning now. Children brought here and their parents will not get the same pathway. Now how it gets done and whether there is the will to actually get it done is the key factor. Time for congress to stop playing games and get it done.

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Response to pampango (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:58 PM

28. Wow, I just read this. Wonderful post!

ITA with BlueCaliDem. Thank you for outing that one. Great job!

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Response to pampango (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:27 PM

31. Here is proof.

 

Let go of your stereotypes.
http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2012/08/for_hispanic_voters_immigratio.html

"Are Hispanics solely concerned with immigration reform? A recent poll of registered Hispanic voters shows health care and unemployment scored higher than immigration on their list of concerns."

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