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Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:12 PM

 

Chicago's Cook County drops bullet tax, keeps gun levy

Source: Reuters

"It is very important to us to tax guns because we know that guns are the sources of the incredible violence we have in our neighborhoods," Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle told a news conference. She said 29 percent of guns used in crimes in Chicago were purchased legally in suburban Cook County.


Under the plan, the county would impose a $25 tax on the purchase of firearms. The tax is expected to raise $600,000 in revenue in 2013. Preckwinkle abandoned a proposed tax o f 5 cents a bullet because the tax in some cases would have exceeded the price of ammunition.


If approved by the board, the nation's third most populous county with nearly 5.2 million residents c ould be the first major U.S. metropolitan area to impose a tax as a form of gun control, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/31/usa-guns-chicago-tax-idUSL1E8LVE9W20121031



This is a tax on citizens exercising one of their natural, inherent, unalienable rights.

SCOTUS may decide it's unconstitutional just like a poll tax.

78 replies, 5997 views

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Reply Chicago's Cook County drops bullet tax, keeps gun levy (Original post)
jody Oct 2012 OP
NYC Liberal Oct 2012 #1
jody Oct 2012 #2
NYC Liberal Oct 2012 #9
jody Oct 2012 #10
CreekDog Nov 2012 #40
PavePusher Nov 2012 #43
CreekDog Nov 2012 #44
PavePusher Nov 2012 #45
CreekDog Nov 2012 #61
PavePusher Nov 2012 #66
CreekDog Nov 2012 #67
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #20
rDigital Nov 2012 #75
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #12
jody Oct 2012 #15
sir pball Oct 2012 #23
onehandle Oct 2012 #3
jody Oct 2012 #7
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #13
Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2012 #4
-..__... Oct 2012 #5
naaman fletcher Oct 2012 #6
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #17
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #14
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #21
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #27
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #34
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #36
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #62
slackmaster Oct 2012 #8
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #16
slackmaster Oct 2012 #19
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #26
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #22
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2012 #30
slackmaster Nov 2012 #37
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #11
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #18
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #24
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #25
-..__... Oct 2012 #28
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #29
-..__... Nov 2012 #31
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #32
hack89 Nov 2012 #39
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #48
hack89 Nov 2012 #50
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #51
hack89 Nov 2012 #52
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #53
hack89 Nov 2012 #54
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #55
hack89 Nov 2012 #56
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #57
hack89 Nov 2012 #58
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #60
hack89 Nov 2012 #63
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #64
hack89 Nov 2012 #65
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #68
hack89 Nov 2012 #70
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #74
hack89 Nov 2012 #78
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #69
hack89 Nov 2012 #71
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #73
hack89 Nov 2012 #77
hack89 Nov 2012 #38
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #47
hack89 Nov 2012 #49
CSAcitizen Nov 2012 #33
byeya Nov 2012 #35
Remmah2 Nov 2012 #41
jody Nov 2012 #42
sl8 Nov 2012 #46
slackmaster Nov 2012 #59
PavePusher Nov 2012 #72
rDigital Nov 2012 #76

Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:16 PM

1. If this is unconstitutional, then so are taxes on paper and pens.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:17 PM

2. And poll taxes? nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:01 PM

9. They had to pass an amendment to ban those.

Before that, poll taxes were perfectly legal.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:13 PM

10. The 24th Amendment (1964) applied only to federal elections. The OP case is for state rights.

 

"In the 1966 case of Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, the Supreme Court overruled its decision in Breedlove v. Suttles, and extended the prohibition of poll taxes to state elections."

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_%28United_States%29

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Response to jody (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 03:00 PM

40. I never see you put up this much fuss about children going hungry or without health care

but a tax on a gun, when we pay taxes for tires, for clothing, for our cars, etc.?

to me it's pretty transparent when someone who claims to be one of us really doesn't care about what most of us care about.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 05:47 PM

43. Associational fallacy writ large?

 

Walk and chew gum. Some of us can do both.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 06:35 PM

44. some can, that poster chooses not to

not my fault. we all get excited about the issues that truly matter to us.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 07:35 PM

45. Are you his/her next-door neighbor?

 

How do you know this?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:42 PM

61. yes

we go way back.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:11 PM

66. Well....

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:18 PM

67. ok, that's appropriate

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:21 PM

20. Intent...

"Guns are the source of incredible violence..."

This will be duly noted by any judge. Incidentally, the "source" is the enabled and empowered gang and thug culture. Further, "keeping" and "bearing" are protected activities not to be infringed.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:35 AM

75. We better start putting all of those guns in jail. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:17 PM

12. Clueless

Taxes on guns have been ruled Constitutional. It's a product.

Taxes on votes has been ruled unConstitutional. No product.

No comparison.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:20 PM

15. IMO the case will go to SCOTUS. I'll wait on their decision. nt

 

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:32 PM

23. That IS illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis_Star_Tribune_Company_v._Commissioner

Sales tax is one thing, this is likely too specific to pass muster in the wake of Heller.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:22 PM

3. Tax Gun Nuts!

Tax Them In Term Two.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:26 PM

7. Ineffective, tax gun grabbers and use the money to purchase guns for law-abiding citizens who are at

 

great risk because Chicago is unable to protect them.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:18 PM

13. Works for Me!!!!

.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:23 PM

4. What was it they got Capone on... ?

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:24 PM

5. Bring it on... let the city's legal bills keep on piling up.

 

Hopefully... into bankruptcy.

That "$600,000 in revenue" will seem like pocket change.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:26 PM

6. and of course

 

they won't even get the 600K because people will buy their guns elsewhere.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:24 PM

17. One Should Hope they move in the Process

.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:19 PM

14. Nonsense

They are paying FAR more investigating and prosecuting crime.

Your logic is really just ....silly.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:24 PM

21. Yeah what's a few hundred thou' Gs to politicians?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:23 PM

27. Nothing compared to the NRA spends on a single election cycle.




.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:16 AM

34. ...but the NRA doesn't use tax-payers' money.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:48 AM

36. Ok

The taxpayer is paying FAR more investigating and prosecuting crime which is NOT done by elected officials where I or most Americans live.

Your logic is really just ....silly.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:49 PM

62. Silly is one thing. Obfuscated (as your's is)? Please. Boring.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:33 PM

8. How hypocritical. If Preckwinkle really thought guns were a source of violence, he would be working

 

...to ban them completely (except, of course, for guns in the hands of government employees.)

He just wants to soak people for as much money as he can get from them.

If approved by the board, the nation's third most populous county with nearly 5.2 million residents c ould be the first major U.S. metropolitan area to impose a tax as a form of gun control, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Disingenuous tripe. It's just a way to get money from people, not "gun control."

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:23 PM

16. Huh

You write. ' ...to ban them completely (except, of course, for guns in the hands of government employees.)'

Are you really that scared of your own government? Tell me, if having a gun is a protected 'right' to overthrow your goverment, do you really think there is a protected right to treason?

What paranoia logic not dissimilar to right wing GOP scare tactics.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:33 PM

19. I'm not scared of government at all. I'm simply pointing out that people who SAY they want all...

 

...guns banned, don't really mean all guns.

What paranoia logic not dissimilar to right wing GOP scare tactics.

I believe you have willfully misinterpreted my position.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:22 PM

26. No

I did no such thing and if that was your argument, you did not express it well enough to make that point. Now you have and I think it is you who has willfully misrepresented the position of gun control advocates.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:31 PM

22. On "paranoia." You guys project too much, or protest too much

Take your choice, psych 101 or English Lit. But remember:

"He who first smelt it dealt it" -- Euripides

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:05 AM

30. Preckwinkle is a she, and she's a good fighter for her constituents.

Wants to end the drug war, too.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:10 AM

37. She's not taking very good care of her poor constituents who want to buy firearms

 

Last edited Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Wants to end the drug war, too.

Nobody is wrong all the time.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:15 PM

11. Taxes

You write: 'This is a tax on citizens exercising one of their natural, inherent, unalienable rights.'

You mean like permit fees to lawfully assemble as provided by the Constitution?

Perhaps you mean like federal corporate traces on broadcasting and newspapers exercising their First Amendment Rights?

No, you must mean like the taxes paid when I buy a newspaper each morning?

Guess you mean the taxes I pay to watch a First Amendment protected movie?

How about the taxes on gun purchases you already pay.... Oh right....that's what we are talking about!

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Response to jody (Original post)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:13 PM

18. Craven and Weird

something is wrong gun lovers... it's definitely deep.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:32 PM

24. Hunted down any? Lately?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:03 PM

25. yes, with intellect, words

which people can live with.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:51 PM

28. More like ignorance and bullshit.

 

And despite that... 2n'd amendment rights marches on.

Get over it... we've won.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:55 PM

29. Read the Party Platform

You Lost.

Seems we support an AWB. Of course, you probably think Dems support a ban on abortions rather than an AWB.......But the REALITY of our platform is far removed from what you think.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:07 AM

31. So... by your reasoning, I/myself/others...

 

have to march in lock-step... 100% with the "party platform"?

Sorry... but I just don't see it that way.

The "party platform" fumbled the ball on this one.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:17 AM

32. No

You stated. 'Get over it... we've won.'

I merely pointed out you have not....certainly not by any reasonable reading of our party's platform and statement of beliefs and legislative priorities.

Leave it to a Democratic opponent of the AWB to argue 'we've won' when Democrats support an AWB.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:46 AM

39. So gun control suffers legislative defeat after defeat

and you think you are on the winning side?

You haven't even slowed down the tidal wave that is making the gun control movement irrelevant. A plank in the party platform doesn't change that stark reality.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:18 PM

48. Your Characterization

Not mine. We all know from the gun clutching right wingers that (sarcasm coming)....Obama is engaging in the ultimate gun control.....taking your guns. Just watch Obama win on Tuesday!

Yes....we are winning.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:21 PM

50. The president has expanded gun rights - he is no threat to my guns.

Please point out to me your victories .

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Response to hack89 (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:29 PM

51. Obama winning inspite of the GOP Saying He Is Going To Take Your Gun

Pretty good victory if you ask me!

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:34 PM

52. But not for gun control - it is a spent force in American politics

Obama will win because (among other things) he had the sense to not talk about gun control. Hell of a victory for gun controllers when you are shunted out of sight like a crazy aunt.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:37 PM

53. Simply Not True

Obama will win despite the ongoing assault by the gun clutching crowd who fear their guns will be taken.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:45 PM

54. How can he win when he refuses to fight?

he had four years to advance gun control legislation as President - why hasn't he?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:48 PM

55. GOP House of Representatives?

Just a guess. LOL.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:07 PM

56. Doesn't stop him from trying. He refuses to even talk about it

why would he refuse to mention it at campaign rallies unless he understands that it is not a priority to the majority of Democratic voters? What reason has he given you to think he cares about gun control?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:10 PM

57. Refuses to Talk About It?

Read the transcript.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:13 PM

58. All I know is that he is not a threat to my guns - and never will be

he and congress have more important issues to address in the next four years. The voters care about jobs, healthcare and tax equality. They care less about gun control. The President is a smart man - he will focus on what the voters want.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:24 PM

60. He Doesn't Refuse to Talk About Guns

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID DURING THE DEBATE IN CONCERT WITH WHAT IS IN THE PARTY PLATFORM

"When asked what the administration has done or plans to do to limit assault weapons at the Oct. 16 debate, Obama said part of the solution to gun violence "is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced."


Refuse to talk about guns? That's BS.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:52 PM

63. He threw you a bone

He will do absolutely nothing about an AWB once reelected. You know that as well as I do.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:57 PM

64. Bones?

Is that what he did when he added he supports the Second Amendment? LOL.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:06 PM

65. He actually did something to strengthen the 2A.

action =/= throwing a bone. Talking about the AWB but not doing anything about it = throwing a bone

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Response to hack89 (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:20 PM

68. LOL

sounds like you are choking on that bone.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:32 PM

70. What are you talking about?

why do you think Obama is a threat to me or my guns? That's the point here - he is not going to push gun control in his next term. I guarantee that he will never even mention it.

Why do you think his reelection is a victory for gun control? What specific actions do you think he make in the next four years?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:58 PM

74. I Don't

The right wing gun clutchers and GOP do and his victory suggests otherwise.

Plain and simple.

Actions... Depends on whether GOP returns to House.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:18 AM

78. There will not be an AWB

he is not going to waste political capital on feel good laws that have no effect on public safety.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:31 PM

69. Hack89 thinks the President is Not Honest When He Said in the second debate

Hack89 thinks the President is Not Honest When He said in the second debate:

"I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theatres don't belong on our streets." He added, "What I want is a comprehensive strategy, part of it is seeing if we get automatic weapons that kill folks in amazing numbers out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill."

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:37 PM

71. Well, he was misinformed if he thinks criminals are using automatic weapons.

They are so tightly regulated to make private ownership of them rare and expensive.

He sincerely believes what he said. But he will do nothing about it. He understands that even if he wanted to introduce an AWB he doesn't even have the full support of his own party.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #71)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:56 PM

73. Actually

He does.

Read party platform.... Again. LOL.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #73)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:16 AM

77. He doesn't have the more important support - votes in Congress.

there will not be an AWB. If that party plank makes you feel better well then fine. But that is all you will get on the matter.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:43 AM

38. Which is why the AWB is constantly mentioned by the President in the campaign ... oh wait.

The gun control faction of the party was thrown a bone to placate them - it is telling you haven't figured that out yet.

There will never be an AWB - the President and Congressional leaders want nothing to do with it.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:14 PM

47. Right

The party threw us a 'bone' with the AWB with the same spirit of conviction that they did when they threw you a 'bone' in the same paragragh affirming the 2nd Amendment.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:19 PM

49. Considering President Obama has expanded gun rights

I wouldn't call it a bone - it appears to be something he takes seriously enough to do something about. Unlike the AWB.

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Response to jody (Original post)


Response to jody (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:46 AM

35. Nuisance taxes and Sin taxes have been with us for a couple of centuries and have not

 

been ruled unconstitutional to my knowledge. Taxes on alcohol and tobacco are narrowly based taxes and firearms should be treated the same way.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:20 PM

41. Why don' t they just collect tax on drug transactions?

 

Like criminals are really going to pay a $25 tax on their guns..........

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:28 PM

42. Darn it Remmah2, you are not allowed to use facts to rebut anti-RKBA rants. nt

 

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Response to jody (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 07:50 PM

46. What about the Federal Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax (FAET)?

Is that unconstitutional?

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Response to sl8 (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:14 PM

59. It's applied uniformly. The federal government does have the power to regulate interstate commerce.

 

I don't believe it's unconstitutional, for those reasons.

Most people aren't aware of it.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:51 PM

72. I think it should be.

 

If the funds get pillaged away from their current purpose, I would certainly fight it. Right now, I can't summon up enough moral outrage. YMMV.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:40 AM

76. Why don't they just tax newspaper ink, paper, computers and electrons. Same deal, right? nt

 

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