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Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:17 PM

Mali: Girl in Timbuktu whipped for speaking to men

Source: AP

BAMAKO, Mali -- A teenaged girl received 60 lashes in Timbuktu after Islamist extremists convicted her of speaking to men on the street.

The girl, about 15 years old, was allegedly caught standing alongside men by the Islamists of Ansar Dine who now run Timbuktu.

"The Islamists charged that the girl was warned five times by Islamist police but she continued to speak to men in the street. After the hearing, the Islamists gave 60 lashes to the girl. The population did not turn out in large numbers to attend this flogging," said Ousmane Maiga, a Timbuktu resident contacted by phone from Bamako

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/15/3051170/mali-girl-in-timbuktu-whipped.html

http://www.iol.co.za/polopoly_fs/iol-news-pic-timbuktu-may-03-1.1288221!/image/285477618.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/285477618.jpg

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54 replies, 6974 views

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Arrow 54 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mali: Girl in Timbuktu whipped for speaking to men (Original post)
L0oniX Oct 2012 OP
leftynyc Oct 2012 #1
L0oniX Oct 2012 #4
sakabatou Oct 2012 #6
leftynyc Oct 2012 #9
L0oniX Oct 2012 #10
Ecumenist Oct 2012 #42
leftynyc Oct 2012 #43
Ash_F Oct 2012 #51
riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #15
leftynyc Oct 2012 #41
L0oniX Oct 2012 #54
Ash_F Oct 2012 #29
msongs Oct 2012 #2
CrispyQ Oct 2012 #5
littlemissmartypants Oct 2012 #3
Daemonaquila Oct 2012 #7
Ash_F Oct 2012 #8
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #21
Ash_F Oct 2012 #22
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #24
Ash_F Oct 2012 #25
arewenotdemo Oct 2012 #39
azurnoir Oct 2012 #44
Scairp Oct 2012 #23
Ash_F Oct 2012 #28
whathehell Oct 2012 #11
Cleita Oct 2012 #27
whathehell Oct 2012 #34
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #38
azurnoir Oct 2012 #45
Cleita Oct 2012 #40
secondwind Oct 2012 #12
L0oniX Oct 2012 #14
ZombieHorde Oct 2012 #13
Bluenorthwest Oct 2012 #16
840high Oct 2012 #17
samsingh Oct 2012 #18
heaven05 Oct 2012 #19
L0oniX Oct 2012 #30
heaven05 Oct 2012 #33
pnwmom Oct 2012 #37
Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #49
Arugula Latte Oct 2012 #52
dorksied Oct 2012 #20
tblue Oct 2012 #26
azurnoir Oct 2012 #47
DirkGently Oct 2012 #31
Odin2005 Oct 2012 #32
limpyhobbler Oct 2012 #35
SpartanDem Oct 2012 #36
azurnoir Oct 2012 #46
L0oniX Oct 2012 #48
azurnoir Oct 2012 #50
L0oniX Oct 2012 #53

Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:25 PM

1. Is she still alive?

Where is her family?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:30 PM

4. Yea I wonder that too. Is 60 lashes enough to kill a young girl?

A public spectacle of savagery.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:35 PM

6. Yes

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Response to sakabatou (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:55 PM

9. There is no mention

of whether she survived, what happens now. And not too many people concerned here either. Makes them feel icky.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:00 PM

10. Now if the Mormon LDS had a 15 yo girl whipped 60 times...

hmmmm

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:27 AM

42. Uh, actually a few years ago, some mormon nut whipped his daughter because she had been FORCED to

marry her cousin at 16 and ran away from this guy. He took her to the barn and whipped her with a belt. It was all over the news....

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Response to Ecumenist (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:33 AM

43. Is that from the fundamentalist

Mormon group? Because that's the only place that googling takes me. This group was excommunicated from the Mormon church. I think the Mormons are nothing but a cult but it's dishonest to say the fundies are part of the mainstream religion.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #43)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:20 PM

51. "it's dishonest to say the fundies are part of the mainstream religion"

That's right. The same goes for Islam.

This year, Muslim Americans are going to turn out overwhelmingly in support of Barack Obama. In 2008, they went 90% Dem with a 95% turnout; among the highest, if not the highest, turnout of any demographic. A lot of the reason for this is that they or their parents left their own countries due to right wing takeover, and they are averse to right wing ideology. Of course they wouldn't go Republican; this is a largely progressive population.

So Democrats should stay away from with right wing ideas. "Cultural relativism" is a right wing catch phrase, soon to join the ranks "separate but equal". Democrats should stay away from arguments that are little more than "THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY!" every time something like this ends up in the news. Everyone gets it, and it's ugly. Let the Republicans tow that line and further distance themselves from yet another demographic. Don't latch on their talking points and act indignant about being called a right winger or a bigot.

Furthermore, to say nobody cares about the victims of right wing Muslim fundamentalists is swinging at windmills(and "Cultural relativism" said in a different way). Nobody on this board thinks that. There is about to be a full scale war over that land and the main motivating factor behind the people who are going to do the fighting is the humanitarian situation. So obviously many people care, whether or not you think war will bring the best outcome.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:46 PM

15. There's a contingent of DUers who denounce posters as Islamophobes if they call out the barbarity

of some of this stuff.

Its gotten really abusive and frankly tiring to be labelled as a bigot if you don't adhere to their cultural relativism or if you don't exhibit appropriate respect or deference to religious beliefs.

There used to be many days of feminist fury on my part about the hideous oppression of women, and stories like this would have me gearing up to do (verbal) battle. Now its a sad K&R.

Sorry lefty.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 05:23 AM

41. I've been accused of bigotry myself

But I can shut up about this. The cultural relativism argument is used to blunt the hideous way women are treated in many Muslim countries and many here are too shortsighted to realize their silence is looked at as acceptance.

It's embarassing to see Democrats shy away from this kind of religious punishment because it's not Christians doing it. And you know it were a Christian, this thread would have hundreds of comments slamming what happened. Nobody has this girls back (or the millions like her) and yet many will puff out their egos to proclaim how important womens issues are to them. It's nauseating.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 08:17 PM

54. Indeed ...if you look below you will see the attempt to re-frame this incident with an excuse...

because of the anarchy that is going on. In other words it's more acceptable or less abhorrent because there is anarchy in the country? Good thing we have more government controls here to prevent the religious fundies here from doing the same sort of things or we'd have dead women, girls, gays, anyone deemed to be different, ect. Let them try to re-frame and denounce me ...I welcome their hatred!

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:52 PM

29. Timbuktu is a no-go area for Westerners

and I don't think there is much in the way of local journalists, considering the situation.

The story probably made it South through word of mouth, though I don't doubt it true, considering they are so hostile that reporters can't even get in. We can only hope she lived and the family chose to flee to a better place.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:27 PM

2. were the men whipped? of course not nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:33 PM

5. This.



The woman hate is growing all over the planet.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:29 PM

3. kick...

Thank you. LMSP

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:47 PM

7. This is where violence is warranted.

Bash back.

Yup, there are people who find that shocking, but it's the way that you deal with scum like this. I have no problem with a woman shooting her abuser, whether in self defense while being beaten in her living room, or a group of female vigilantes taking down a squad of religious police. If women are so evil, let's show them what evil can really look like.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:55 PM

8. Mali is on the brink of civil war

EU to plan military training mission for Mali
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-mali-crisis-eubre89e11m-20121015,0,3610162.story

"Al Qaeda-linked Islamists from the MUJWA group threatened on Saturday to "open the doors of hell" for French citizens if France kept pushing for armed intervention to retake the north."

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:27 PM

21. On the brink? It's been in the middle of one for months. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:45 PM

22. Well there hasn't been much shooting yet.

But it looks like it won't stay that way for long.

Mali extremists vow to attack French over calls to oust militants
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/10/mali-extremists-vow-to-attack-french-as-forces-plan-to-oust-them.html

"Last week the U.N. Security Council asked Mali and its partners to come up with a plan to retake the north, the first step toward giving the green light for military action. West African countries say they will send forces, but want support from the powerful body before acting."

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #22)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:50 PM

24. Uh, half the country's under rebel control and a quarter million people are displaced

It's very much a civil war.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:05 PM

25. 30K, due to the conflict

http://www.internal-displacement.org/8025708F004BE3B1/(httpInfoFiles)/978BA1D74D325DFAC1257A8A00312A53/$file/mali-overview-oct2012.pdf
"On 17 January 2012, Tuareg rebels of the
Mouvement National de Libération de l’Azawad
(MNLA), a separatist group formed in October
2011 and bolstered by the influx of fighters returning from Libya, launched an offensive against the
Malian army to secure independence of the north
(The Daily Telegraph, 19 January 2012). Fighting
affected all of northern Mali, including the towns
of Ménaka, Tessalit, Aguelhok, Tinzaouaten, Léré
and Niafunké. Within three weeks at least 30,000
people were displaced (ICRC, 8 February 2012).
"

But my point was that things were cool and had been for a while, but it looks like will get hot soon. There is pressure from the UNSC(France) on West African nations to escalate the situation, and it seems like they are relenting, with some trepidation.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 12:33 AM

39. "bolstered by the influx of fighters returning from Libya"

 

So maybe it wasn't such a great idea to support Islamist rebels against Gaddafi after all.

I wonder what happens when we help take down Assad?

You can bet Wolfowitz will be pleased.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:45 PM

44. soon like now -Mali prepares for attack on northern insurgents

West African troops are gearing up for a military intervention in Mali after the government said it will meet a United Nations security council deadline to begin recapturing the country's north from al-Qaida-linked insurgents.

The government said a plan for military action by its army and the Economic Community of West African States (Ecowas) would be ready within 45 days. One senior security official told the Guardian he believed plans for the offensive would break the "vicious cycle" that has seen months of inaction and a rapidly worsening humanitarian situation in the north since rebels seized key towns following a 22 March coup.

"The government does not have one single representative in northern Mali, we have absolutely no control of the territory," the source said.

"But the UN security council has given 45 days to Ecowas and Mali to present a plan for military action to recapture the north and we are confident that this will be enough time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/16/mali-prepares-attack-northern-insurgents

Timbuktu is located on the edge of the Northern insurgent held area

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:48 PM

23. Um, they've gone over the brink I believe

This coup began about a year ago, as I recall. I read about a couple being stoned to death for some kind of alleged "immoral" behaviour not that long ago. It's very bad there. And it's a real tragedy because the people of Mali seem like really good people. They were known for embracing foreigners. It's unclear what the world can do about Mali but surely there must be something. It's horrible to see these people being abused and killed for manufactured reasons by psychos using religion as an excuse to do so.

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Response to Scairp (Reply #23)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:14 PM

28. The world can and should do something.

But I am incredulous about French designs for the the region, since it was their colony after all. I would rather see nation with a less dubious past in the region play the role as mediator.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:08 PM

11. Hideous...More woman hate. My spouse thinks the US should offer "sanctuary" immigration

status to women from these misogynist cultures and I wholeheartedly agree.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:11 PM

27. Me too and I wonder why it's not mentioned more often.

You know when we pull out of Afghanistan that the western world, not just us, is going to have to do something like this.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:21 PM

34. I don't know...

Some international legal problems, e.g. "America trying to take "their" women away"?..I don't know..that might

be bs as I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like something Hilary Clinton might consider initiating, if it's legally

feasible, dontcha think?

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Response to whathehell (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 12:21 AM

38. There's no reason it'd be legally unfeasible, just politically

Xenophobes and the substantial anti-immigrant community in the US would flip, of course.

Abroad it would definitely be spun as "America trying to take their women away," but that'd be a matter of politics and diplomacy again, not law, unless the other country was doing something ridiculous like refusing to give women passports or let them travel. (In that case, "America taking their women away" would not only be correct as far as they were concerned, it'd be right too, in the general sense of "fuck people who put up those kinds of hurdles.")

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #38)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:50 PM

45. okay then what would the rules be concerning this?

would proof of abuse be needed or is being Muslim enough? would this be limited to unmarried women only? what if the women has children? moreover what if some of those children are boys, would there be an age limit on that say 10, 12, 14 years of age? there is more than just "theys takin our wimens" involved here

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Response to whathehell (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 02:03 AM

40. Yes, I don't see why the refugee status should be any different for women than

for any persecuted ethnic group.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:25 PM

12. The photo in the second link above shows a young girl with skinny arms holding a plate

of bread or biscuits on her head... IS THIS THE GIRL?

She is selling something, and cannot speak to people? grrr

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Response to secondwind (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:42 PM

14. A young vendor wears a veil as she walks along an alley in Timbuktu.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:27 PM

13. Absolutely disturbing. nt

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

16. So disgusting, so very disturbing.

nt

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

17. Disgusting.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 06:16 PM

18. are Islamist Women going to stand up to this crap?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:10 PM

19. religion

This is a case of religious insanity. Religion is sick. This shows that religion has no place in civilized society, or 14th century society or 3rd century society. Sorry. I went off. Religion is in the hands of sick, depraved people whose only aim in life is to control others.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #19)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:06 PM

30. Religion is a poison, a toxic brew of authoritarian legalism that will never get anyone to God.

No one can obey all the rules and thus will fail. Humans being imperfect never will reach perfection in this life. Any belief in God must be enabled by a power above what a human has if a human is ever to reach perfection. It is not possible for any human to attain salvation by their own efforts.

I would say that todays fundamentalist Islamics are the worst of them all. You have to go back to the religious crusades to find savage barbarianism that comes close to Islamic fundamentalists. Even our own fake christian abortion clinic bombers do not come close to being as barbaric.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #30)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:11 PM

33. like

I like that toxic brew stuff. And the other words also. so true.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #19)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:48 PM

37. This is a case of cultural insanity. Religion is merely the particular vehicle. n/t

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:11 PM

49. Some religions certainly are.

I don't see too much of a problem with Joe Biden's Roman Catholicism, for example.

But religions that shoot schoolgirls for wanting to be educated, or stone women to death for committing adultery, are indeed "sick".

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #49)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:44 PM

52. Leaders of the RCC are a depraved nest of grifting, misogynistic, gay-hating, power-hungry criminals

Joe Biden is not any of those things, but by maintaining membership in that fucked-up church he is enabling the scum-sucking Vatican and its loathsome U.S. bishops.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:16 PM

20. Extremism needs to be exterminated.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:10 PM

26. Women in those countries should be eligible for asylum.

Bring them here. Their lives are in danger and they have no rights

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Response to tblue (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 05:13 PM

47. okay women in THOSE countries what countries would THOSE be?

do you assume that all Muslim countries are alike ? do you have the slightest bit of knowledge as to what the actual laws in Mali are vs what is happening in that country right now?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:08 PM

31. Horrific.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:14 PM

32. OMG!

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:02 PM

35. I just figure this happens all the time. It is horrible.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:28 PM

36. I'm shocked a Muslim female, in that part of world, being treated brutally

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 05:07 PM

46. A question for the OP

prior to reading replies on this thread (assuming you have) were you aware of the conditions in Mali were you aware that Mali is on the verge of being declared a failed state? were you aware that the UNSC had an emerency meeting in this last week? or is you concern for Muslim women so great that all of that can be ignored or denounced as cultural relevency?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #46)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 06:57 PM

48. While the focus is on the girl who was shot for promoting education others are also being harmed and

or killed. Maybe it matters to some only if the woman/girl is shot or killed for promoting a cause. Maybe many others don't get the lime light but are being killed none the less without promoting any cause. As far as your questions go ...I'm not going to play your game.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #48)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:13 PM

50. my game? what game? and oh the girl in your OP did not get shot

she was lashed a lethal number of times for speaking to men as we are told, my point was that Mali is at the mement in to put it mildly a state of anarchy and as horrible as this incident is, anarchy just possibly maybe might could have something to do with this incident

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #50)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 08:09 PM

53. I don't see where it would make it less worth looking at because of the state of the country...

it happened in. I still blame the fundamentalist Islamics in any country (anarchy or not) who would do this ...who don't IMO even obey the precepts of the Koran which speak against killing. I don't find that anarchy is any excuse to do this sort of thing or to accept it ...no more than it being acceptable to rape women because a country is at war. If Mormons or the fake christians did this I would have the same opinion of the perpetrators. IMO these acts are savage and barbaric.

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