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Mon Oct 15, 2012, 12:54 PM

Merkelís Government Rejects Second Greek Debt Cut to Ease Crisis

Source: Bloomberg

Germany rejected a second debt writedown for Greece, digging in against suggestions for European governments to accept losses on Greek holdings.

ďA new haircut is out of the question as far as the German government is concerned,Ē Steffen Seibert, Chancellor Angela Merkelís chief spokesman, said at a regular news briefing in Berlin today. ďWe are working on sensible solutions with the Greeks and our European partners.Ē

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Merkel, the leader of Europeís biggest economy and the biggest country contributor to euro-area bailouts, says she wants to keep Greece in the currency union while avoiding new aid as the country that set off the debt crisis faces a sixth year of recession.

International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde suggested that Greece may need another debt cut, saying on Sept. 24 that the countryís financing gap wonít be bridged with budget measures alone. She said last week that Greece may need more time to meet its targets.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-15/merkel-s-government-rejects-second-greek-debt-cut-to-ease-crisis.html

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:10 PM

1. Merkel signing EU economic death warrant

or playing chicken. Neither is advised.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:16 PM

2. She'll be out come next elections there.

The German public have had quite enough of her giving the taxes they pay away to other countries.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:47 PM

8. my understanding is that most of the money 'given' to Greece goes straight back to German banks

they are not bailing out Greece, they are bailing out the banks who lent to Greece

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Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:26 PM

12. No - it is to fund basic government functions for two years

Greece is so broke they will literally run out of money to pay for government services without the bailout.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:11 PM

15. yes, because they are servicing debts to other countries

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Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:23 PM

16. Part of the deal was that debt holders wrote off 100 Billion euros in Greek debt

Greece borrowed the money - it is not unreasonable that the people the lent the money should get something back.

Their only other option is default - which resolves the debt payment issue but opens up a whole different can of worms.

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Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:38 PM

13. The German banks to which you refer

are state owned.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:21 PM

3. If Greece were able to devalue their currency to regain some competitiveness, they would

 

be able to weather this storm. They gave up their currency, like the other countries in EuroLand, but the Euro strongly favors the Germans and works against Greece.

The countries under the Euro definately need a treasury which they don't have and won't unless Germany, as the leading economy, thinks of the union first before themselves.

Germany has not thrown its weight around, a positive thing, but as the leading economy, it needs to exercise leadership with a long term perspective. The emphasis on nonexistant inflation is counterproductive.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:29 PM

4. Extremely stupid decision imo on the part of Germany. nt

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:37 PM

5. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

Someone need to give Frau Merkel a little lecture in history - like when Germany got a rather strick punishment after the first world war - and even after it all was "re-financed" in the 1920s, had to pay to the country's Germany had occupied most of Western Europa - and devastated France and the Benelux nations... The war repretations was stiff, but not worse than that Germany was in the clear in 1988, if they had chosen to pay of their debt as planned.. But even after softening of the debt, germany was not exactly happy about it - and in 1933, one of the first thing Hitler did was to postpone the debt they was due - and was given a free pass... It was first in 1949, when BDR was recognized as a nation again, that West Germany was to pay off their war debt from WW1.. in small amount compared to pre 1933. And Germany paid of their world war one debt this year in fact.. Ahead of scedule...

But the point here is that Frau Merkel might need to be told the story about how angry Germans was because they had to pay a amount every year to the allied forces in world war one - And they was not even paying war repreprations to Soviet Union, even though they had waging a rather nasty war against the russians from 1914 to 1917... She might believe that the Greeks would not go the same road as Germany did in 1933, but it is a danger in this, that it could end up destabilize the Balkans again.. As it is a few cracks there who could fault under the right circumstances.. And by the way, Germany have a rather nasty history with Greece who they subjugated brutally between 1941 and to the end of the war, where they was thrown out of Greece... And Greece as a nation have never forgetting what Germany did under the war - and have troubles forgive it. Even today more than 70 year later they have not forgotten what Germany did..

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:48 PM

6. It's my understanding that the Germans, on their way out of occupying Greece, randomly slaughtered

 

Greek people and even burned down hundreds of schools. That should not be forgotten.

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Response to byeya (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:13 PM

7. byeya

byeya

The germans in Greece was rather barbaric in their occupying of the country - I would say savage was the norm in Greece... Even the barbars of the 400s was civilized compared to what germany did... It was absolutely horrible for the civilian population in Greece.. And Schools was just one of the things the Germans was burning to the ground.. Whole villages and smaller city's was razed to the ground.. And the civilians either murdered or had to flee to other parts...

The war in the Balkans was some of a "not the plan" for the germans - as they had planned to attack USSR in the spring of 1941 - but because of the italian flop in the Balkans had to put a "fire-brigade" to work, to repress any Yugoslav and Greece aspirations to fight the Axes in the Balkans... Both Yugoslavia and Greece was punished harshly by the germans - the Waffen SS, got their "steel" from rampaging the country's of Balkan, a method they also used in the USSR when that country was attached in the summer of 1941

And some say that Greece have not getting over the fact how they was occupied by the germans - some historians point out that the repreprations Germans was given Greece after the end of the war - and the end of the war - was far less than Germans did when they occupied and more or less burned down parts of Greece... Many have still painfully wounds from the war - and Germany is trying their best to look the other way...

But I guess, Frau Merkel, who was grown up in East Germany was not tough that in school... And I also suspect she doesn't care to much about what germans did in Greece under world war two..

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:11 PM

9. Thanks very much for adding to what little I knew about the situation. I appreciate

 

your taking the time to give me the facts, tragic and horrible as they are.

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Response to byeya (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 06:12 PM

10. byeya

byeya

The little I know I can share - history is a passion of sorts for me, but I am afraid I'm little rusty about how things was in the Balkans, it have not really be a focal points for my interest to be honest But the little I do know, is rather brutal - Germans really did a nasty job in trying to pacify the balkans. It is said that Hitler lost his head, when Mussolini attacked Yugoslavia - and then Greece as he doesn't had planed for the possibility that the italians should do that a miserable war in the Balkans.. The british had a military station in Greece as part of that country's alliance and more important friendship between UK and Greece - and some historians suspect Hitler deiced it was time to crush the british in Greece once and for all. The british had to leave - the Swazica was put on top of the Acropolis - and the greeks had to endure maybe one of the worst occupies they have ever experienced since the Persians for 2500 year ago... And both Yugoslavia and Greece was a place where the germans did horrible acts of war crimes.. Not that the Resistance was any better in that matter.. But the German did some crimes that was never really sorted out after the war.. The cold war kind of closed off that issue - and when the lit was off - Yugoslavia exploded in old hatred and newer ones - specially between Serbs and croats - who had had some issues going back to the war.. Many serbs was put in KZ camps, and used as slaves, both in Serbia, in the rest of Yugoslavia - but also all over Europe, even here in Norway. Where they was known as "serberfanger" and they was also the ones who build a part of a road, who now is part of E6 in the north of Norway - it is called Blodveien, or the bloody road, as hundreds of serbs and russian prisoners of wars was used under harsh conditions, with little or no food, and no medical help on any kind.. The result is that hundreds of poor POW was murdered for a road who goes maybe 400km..... The road was used by the germans when they was sending troops to the north/eastern front in Murmansk...

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 06:55 PM

11. Thanks for the additional history: All new to me. My father was in WW2 and severely wounded

 

in Italy when the Allies were driving Germany out of that country.
I really know little about the Balkans except that Tito led an effective guerilla effort against
the occupying Germans.

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Response to byeya (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:17 PM

14. byeya

byeya

World War Two was a horrible on most levels - and many americans was being killed - or wounded for life when they was over here to fight the nazis and turn the tide for Hitler.. And they did a great effort to fight the german forces in italy, as in the rest of europe... And I know that it cemented a friendship and alliance for more than 60 year - but I have to admit - when GWB was going to war in Iraq, against better judgment from the allies in Europe (the old Europe as your then defense minister Donald Rumsfeld told the world, when he was getting some heat from the allies) almost managed to destroy that alliance, and friendship... It survived but just... And I suspect it might not be easy to cement it as it was before GWB got into office.. I Have no clue if NATO and the alliance between Europe and US will survive if Mitt got into office... (I really fear for a devastating breakup) Europe have a lot to thanks for the war so many brave and young americans did in the war.. Many died - many got wounded for life - and some survived the war - and got home more or less intact.

Tito, or Joseph Brodz did led a rather effective guerrilla effort the germans - even though the titos partisans was brutal they too.. And the civilians was crushed in the middle, as the partisans and the germans did their best to squishes the smallest possibility out of the civilian populations - and they was also pretty good at punish what they was looking as "traitors".. And the partisans was not united in the fight against the germans, rather it was a alliance of "necessarily" as the partisans had different political motives.. Some was deeply conservatives - some was communist - others was nationalist and conservatives and so one... It was a mess - and the conservative and nationality could play it along with the germans - as they did it with the communists - and Tito was just the one who survived when the dust settled after the war... And Tito had also the support of the UK government - who looked at Tito as a pragmatic man who might be the future leader of Yugoslavia.. It is told that even Winston Churchill had a flavor for Tito.. Even though HE was as anti-communist as it comes

Diclotican

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