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Thu Oct 11, 2012, 10:45 PM

Biden Pins Ryan Down On Taxes: ‘Oh, Now You’re Jack Kennedy?

Source: TPM

(snip)
Ryan insisted that the reforms could go forward without hurting the middle class.

“It has been done before,” he said.

“It has never been done before,” Biden shot back.

“Jack Kennedy — lower tax rates increased growth,” Ryan said.

“Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy?” Biden said.

Read more: http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/biden-pins-ryan-down-on-taxes-oh-now-youre-jack-kennedy.php



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Reply Biden Pins Ryan Down On Taxes: ‘Oh, Now You’re Jack Kennedy? (Original post)
cal04 Oct 2012 OP
Shuhered Oct 2012 #1
BlueStreak Oct 2012 #27
Shuhered Oct 2012 #39
BlueStreak Oct 2012 #40
Shuhered Oct 2012 #41
JenniferJuniper Oct 2012 #2
alp227 Oct 2012 #8
JenniferJuniper Oct 2012 #9
alp227 Oct 2012 #12
JenniferJuniper Oct 2012 #15
alp227 Oct 2012 #16
mahatmakanejeeves Oct 2012 #25
Retrograde Oct 2012 #32
Shuhered Oct 2012 #36
ffr Oct 2012 #3
FailureToCommunicate Oct 2012 #4
Shuhered Oct 2012 #42
QUALITYCONTRoll Oct 2012 #5
HankyDub Oct 2012 #6
Shuhered Oct 2012 #44
rationalcalgarian Oct 2012 #7
jsr Oct 2012 #13
Samantha Oct 2012 #18
SunSeeker Oct 2012 #19
bamacrat Oct 2012 #29
TorchTheWitch Oct 2012 #31
Gore1FL Oct 2012 #10
jsr Oct 2012 #11
railsback Oct 2012 #14
66 dmhlt Oct 2012 #21
surrealAmerican Oct 2012 #22
railsback Oct 2012 #30
David Zephyr Oct 2012 #17
LostinRed Oct 2012 #20
llmart Oct 2012 #23
City Lights Oct 2012 #24
Thav Oct 2012 #26
neverland_pirate Oct 2012 #28
cynzke Oct 2012 #33
Blue Owl Oct 2012 #34
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #35
Orrex Oct 2012 #37
RoccoR5955 Oct 2012 #38
markpkessinger Oct 2012 #43

Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 10:47 PM

1. Biden Owns Ryan!!!!

AHAHAHaHaHaHaHaHa, t
That was some GOoOOoD debating

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Response to Shuhered (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 09:36 AM

27. But now they have to follow up to expose this tax shell game Romney and Ryan are pulling

They want to cut tax revenues by 5 trillion dollars.

They say they can pay for it by eliminating loopholes and deductions, but they won't identify a single loophole or deduction they would eliminate.

They say the math works, but they don't have time to explain the math to anyone.

Their real con game was revealed by that comment about Kennedy and Reagan.

Ryan's math depends on one of the great myths in right-wing philosophy - that you can cut taxes and end up with more tax revenue because the blessings of free enterprise cause an explosion of economic activity as soon as you cut those taxes. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN UNDER REAGAN. It has NEVER happened any time.

It is true that Reagan cut taxes. And it is also true that eventually we got more tax revenue. However what Lyin' Ryan leaves out is that Reagan ran HUGE deficits, particularly in military spending. That is what caused the incremental economic activity. Without that deficit spending, there would have been a net lose in tax proceeds by a large margin.

I don't know why everybody is having such a hard time pinning these bastards down on this. It isn't that complicated.

Why didn't Biden ask him more specifically what loopholes and deductions he would cut? Why didn't Biden ask Ryan that if we cut taxes 5 trillion dollars, what does his secret math assume for additional economic activity resulting in additional tax payments?

We have to smoke these guys out and we're running out of time, just as we did on Romney's tax returns. If you don't go straight at them, they will duck and dodge, trying to run out the clock.

Go after them, somebody. Please.

Ultimately Republicans don't ever care whether the numbers add up because that isn't their big strategy. Their big strategy is Two Santas.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 05:13 PM

39. No Loopholes For Millionaires

<<< Putting in place loophole closures to multi-millionaire business owners would lower their much-needed revenues with which they might hire new employees. The 47% have their safety net-- why can't we have ours, if ya follow?? Try to be reasonable and understand. >>>. That's the philosophy of Mitt & Paul-- I am in a higher tax bracket myself but, having a conscience, I would never try to sell such a lopsided tax plan to the American Public. Bob Dole once asked, " Where's the outrage?" He wasn't referring to a tax plan, I don't believe, but I pray that America is outraged enough to show in a landslide how thoughtless & Contra-Middle class the Presidential GOP ticket is this cycle.

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Response to Shuhered (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:27 PM

40. 2 points

1) The ultimate loopholes for the rich are capital gains and tricks with bogus corporations (blocking corporations etc), and Romney has no intention of changing any of that, other than maybe taking cap gains to 0%.

2) Without doing something about those two things, there aren't nearly enough loopholes to make up a 20% cut in rates. Throw in everything -- charitable deductions, mortgage interest, health expenses, education -- it doesn't add up to 20% if you don't go after those two big tax evasion scams used by the 0.1% (laundering income through the lower cap gains rate and bogus corporations to shield income altogether.)

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 12:33 AM

41. Well Put Blue Streak

Yea he is an economic evil-doer, in the old fashion vernacular.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:12 PM

2. How dare that little puke refer to JFK as "Jack"...

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Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:00 AM

8. So was Lloyd Bentsen (Dukakis running mate) a puke?

He told Sen. Dan Quayle in the 1988 VP debate "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

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Response to alp227 (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:05 AM

9. Bentsen knew Kennedy personally

remember the beginning of the quote?

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Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:08 AM

12. So it's bad for Ryan to call JFK "Jack Kennedy"?

Because Ryan never knew John F. Kennedy personally?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:21 AM

15. Kennedy in his day was never referred to as "Jack" by the press

or by public officials. Bobby Kennedy may have been Bobby, but John Kennedy was never referred to by his nickname.

I thought it was disrespectful when that useless twerp Dan Quayle said it and I feel the same way about this punk Quayle wannabe. And I suspect the use of name Jack is part of what rightfully set Bentsen off.

Imagine if Obama referred to St. Reagan as "Ronnie".

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Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:29 AM

16. Makes sense. n/t

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Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 08:30 AM

25. "Everyone is voting for Jack"



Everyone is voting for Jack
'Cause he's got what all the rest lack
Everyone wants to back -- Jack
Jack is on the right track
'Cause he's got high hopes
He's got high hopes
1960 is the year for his high hopes

Come on and vote for Kennedy
Vote for Kennedy
And we'll come out on top!
Oops, there goes the opposition - ker -
Oops, there goes the opposition - ker -
Oops, there goes the opposition - KERPLOP!

K--E--DOUBLE N--E--D--Y
Jack's the nation's favorite guy
Everyone wants to back -- Jack
Jack is on the right track
'Cause he's got high hopes
He's got high hopes
1960 is the year for his high hopes

Come on and vote for Kennedy
Vote for Kennedy
Keep America strong
Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' - a -
Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' - a -
Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' along!

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Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:42 PM

32. I recall the media liked to talk about "Jack and Jackie"

that dynamic young couple in the White House. Or maybe the press was exceptionally rude where I lived (a city with a big Catholic majority). Referring to presidents by a nickname is an old tradition.

Quayle and Ryan are still twerps, though. I think Ryan brought up Kennedy 1) because he needed and example of a Democratic president lowering tax rates (forgetting to mention that they were in the 75%+ level at the top) and 2) he supposedly got coached by Quayle, who told him to just bring up JFK when things got rough.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 09:42 PM

36. Truth Must Be Involved

What is so sad about this, even having watched Ryan try to sit with his family for breakfast, is that he keeps a smile at every turn while he speaks lie after lie after lie. How he became annointed as some economic guru for the extreme fringe Right is beyond me. He is not that bright if he cannot think on his feet.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:15 PM

3. Biden pinned Ryan down on Romney's ever changing positions

Uh-oh. What's a shapeshifter to do????

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:17 PM

4. Congressman, you're no Jack Kennedy

Go get 'em Joe!

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:36 AM

42. Totally Agree, How Dare He?

Yea sorry, Lyin Ryan, you really diminished the discourse by attempting to cite one of the greatest Democrats ever in your skewed logic. Also, it didn't go unnoticed that you did so with the hope of De I ratio heads exploding, you cheap suit redneck with no similarity to either party, truth be told.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:19 PM

5. OUCH!

Lying Ryan...you have been schooled...

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:27 PM

6. Fucking great moment.

 

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 02:56 PM

44. Even BETTER moment

How about Mitt's goofy "When did you say terror attack?!" moment during the debate? Even Ms. Crowley corrected him. I was shocked at how mean he looked as he did the eyebrow raising thing, pretty creepy Mr. Romney, even for you. Chasing any demons, lately?

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 11:58 PM

7. I'm sorry...

but I can't look at Ratboy and NOT think of Eddie Munster!

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Response to rationalcalgarian (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:09 AM

13. He's a cross between Eddie and a sewer rat.

So he's both. LOL

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Response to jsr (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:48 AM

18. That is probably the most accurate description I have ever read about him

I am going to try to remember it. Pretty original.

Sam

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Response to jsr (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:32 AM

19. And maybe a touch of Gollum.

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Response to rationalcalgarian (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 10:38 AM

29. I know, terrible widows peak.

I mean c'mon man.

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Response to rationalcalgarian (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:09 PM

31. I can't look at him and not think of a teenage boy with that ugly bedhead hairdo

I absolutely hate that "do" and the only time I ever see it is on teenage boys. The "do" that says "I dropped my head in the toilet then passed out on my face while it was still wet". I just can't look at that guy and think anything else with that ridiculous teenage boy "do".


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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:07 AM

10. I wish he would have followed that up with

"I didn't know Jack Kennedy, but I knew Lloyd Bentsen."

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:08 AM

11. Priceless

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:10 AM

14. So what was the top marginal tax rate on the rich during JFK?

 

Something like 70% over $3 million. Ryan has now endorsed letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire.

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Response to railsback (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 07:47 AM

21. Table of Historical Highest Marginal Tax Rate by Year

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Response to 66 dmhlt (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 08:00 AM

22. To clarify 70% was ...

... after it was cut ...

... It was more than 90% before that.

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Response to 66 dmhlt (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:02 PM

30. Thanks for the link

 

Also noteworthy are the top marginals during the Reagan years, and when those were slashed the final two years, the economy went into a tailspin, forcing GHWB to raise taxes to try to stabilize it.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:33 AM

17. K&R. I can't get enough of that video.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 02:01 AM

20. OMG

That was the best exchange ever...the best line wasn't the Jack Kennedy line it was teh Republican lead congress 7% approval rating comment at the end.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 08:16 AM

23. Best put down of the night from Joe....

I love it!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 08:21 AM

24. Haha. I loved that line!

Way to go, Joe!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 09:21 AM

26. I was working at my small biz last night and couldn't watch

Looks like I missed quite a show.

When Obama picked Biden for his VP, I wasn't all that impressed. I now stand much corrected after watching some clips.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 10:27 AM

28. JFK was a liberal

 

Ryan won't mention that?

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 02:31 PM

33. Kennedy Tax Detail

Someone pointed out on one of the talk shows that when Kennedy lowered the tax rate for the highest income, it lowered to about 70%...we were still collecting higher revenue and could sustain the economy despite the cut. An important detail you won't hear from the GOP.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 06:26 PM

34. Jack Kennedy? He sounds even more like Jack Ass.

n/t

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 06:56 PM

35. I Read here that Paul's Bug Eyes Washed up on Florida's coastline

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sat Oct 13, 2012, 12:26 PM

37. I wonder if that was an even better response than we realize?

After Quayle, no GOP candidate would be permitted to invoke Kennedy so conspicuously unless it was intended as a set up. As soon as I heard it, I suspected that Ryan was trying to rope Biden in. Biden's response, however, simply shut him down and didn't really leave room for a canned comeback, and Ryan wasn't clever enough to come up with a new on in real time.

Can't say for sure, vt it seems to me that Biden gave an artful off the cuff preemptive answer to a would-be soundbyte zinger.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sat Oct 13, 2012, 12:33 PM

38. I just KNOW that Ryan

peed his pants after that one!
That was a great jab by Uncle Joe!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 06:35 PM

43. I'll be honest -- I thought that was one of Biden's weaker moments...

Don't get me wrong: I think overall he did a fantastic job. But Ryan wasn't claiming to "be Jack Kennedy." It was a rather poor attempt to play off of Lloyd Bentsen's famous debate line against Dan Quayle. In that particular moment, Biden came off as a bit smarmy.

There is an appropriate response to Ryan's claim, which can be found at:

http://www.businessinsider.com/gdp-growth-caused-by-tax-cuts-has-never-happened-2012-10

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