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Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:48 PM

Chavez wins Venezuelan election

Source: The Globe and Mail

Venezuela’s socialist President Hugo Chavez won re-election in on Sunday, quashing the opposition’s best bet at unseating him in 14 years and cementing himself as a dominant figure in modern Latin American history.

The 58-year-old Chavez took 54.42 percent of the vote, with 90 percent of the ballots counted, to 44.97 percent for young opposition candidate Henrique Capriles, official results showed.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/chavez-fans-celebrate-anticipated-venezuela-vote-win/article4594948/?cmpid=rss1

159 replies, 16138 views

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Arrow 159 replies Author Time Post
Reply Chavez wins Venezuelan election (Original post)
Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 OP
joshcryer Oct 2012 #1
harmonicon Oct 2012 #108
joshcryer Oct 2012 #116
Ash_F Oct 2012 #2
Warpy Oct 2012 #52
Ash_F Oct 2012 #64
Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #3
joshcryer Oct 2012 #6
2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #15
joshcryer Oct 2012 #16
Wilms Oct 2012 #21
joshcryer Oct 2012 #27
2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #55
joshcryer Oct 2012 #59
2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #106
Kurovski Oct 2012 #127
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #72
joshcryer Oct 2012 #92
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #95
joshcryer Oct 2012 #99
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #100
joshcryer Oct 2012 #103
Spider Jerusalem Oct 2012 #141
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #142
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #152
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #4
Ken Burch Oct 2012 #5
joshcryer Oct 2012 #7
Ken Burch Oct 2012 #51
Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #8
bluestateguy Oct 2012 #9
joshcryer Oct 2012 #10
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #11
Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #12
2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #14
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #32
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #37
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #39
cprise Oct 2012 #82
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #128
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #135
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #138
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #139
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #74
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #104
Hydra Oct 2012 #122
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #123
Hydra Oct 2012 #125
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #133
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #153
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #156
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #157
The Doctor. Oct 2012 #29
Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #124
Kurovski Oct 2012 #129
Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #149
The Doctor. Oct 2012 #151
Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #159
The Doctor. Oct 2012 #150
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #73
LineLineLineReply .
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #84
LittleBlue Oct 2012 #13
Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2012 #17
2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #53
Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #18
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #19
Justina For Justice Oct 2012 #20
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #22
socialist_n_TN Oct 2012 #158
Cali_Democrat Oct 2012 #23
tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #24
Lydia Leftcoast Oct 2012 #26
Overseas Oct 2012 #48
LarryNM Oct 2012 #62
tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #121
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #154
Kurovski Oct 2012 #130
moondust Oct 2012 #46
dipsydoodle Oct 2012 #70
bitchkitty Oct 2012 #119
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #143
The Magistrate Oct 2012 #25
I love weed Oct 2012 #28
The Doctor. Oct 2012 #31
Panasonic Oct 2012 #35
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #75
TBF Oct 2012 #80
harmonicon Oct 2012 #109
hauweg Oct 2012 #113
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #144
flamingdem Oct 2012 #30
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #44
flamingdem Oct 2012 #45
Cali_Democrat Oct 2012 #33
iandhr Oct 2012 #34
Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #40
Ash_F Oct 2012 #66
dipsydoodle Oct 2012 #69
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #76
Kurovski Oct 2012 #131
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #85
hughee99 Oct 2012 #107
DeSwiss Oct 2012 #36
onehandle Oct 2012 #38
a2liberal Oct 2012 #41
JI7 Oct 2012 #42
David__77 Oct 2012 #43
joshcryer Oct 2012 #49
davidn3600 Oct 2012 #47
David__77 Oct 2012 #56
Peace Patriot Oct 2012 #63
Ash_F Oct 2012 #65
davidn3600 Oct 2012 #89
harmonicon Oct 2012 #111
Peace Patriot Oct 2012 #140
davidn3600 Oct 2012 #148
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #146
Blue Yorker Oct 2012 #68
harmonicon Oct 2012 #110
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #147
NoGOPZone Oct 2012 #120
Kurovski Oct 2012 #132
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #145
Overseas Oct 2012 #50
Zorra Oct 2012 #54
joelz Oct 2012 #57
Vidar Oct 2012 #58
ronnie624 Oct 2012 #60
I love weed Oct 2012 #61
Jazzgirl Oct 2012 #81
Swagman Oct 2012 #86
frylock Oct 2012 #87
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #155
JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #67
leveymg Oct 2012 #71
Kolesar Oct 2012 #77
Ter Oct 2012 #78
harmonicon Oct 2012 #112
dharmamarx Oct 2012 #79
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #114
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #83
Great Caesars Ghost Oct 2012 #88
yurbud Oct 2012 #90
Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #91
yurbud Oct 2012 #93
Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #94
yurbud Oct 2012 #98
Kingofalldems Oct 2012 #96
bitchkitty Oct 2012 #97
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #115
bitchkitty Oct 2012 #118
Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #126
LiberalLovinLug Oct 2012 #101
Megahurtz Oct 2012 #102
Mosaic Oct 2012 #105
devilgrrl Oct 2012 #117
Kurovski Oct 2012 #134
cstanleytech Oct 2012 #136
Kurovski Oct 2012 #137

Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:50 PM

1. Good for him.

Doesn't sound like the opposition is going to claim fraud as they were accused of preparing to do.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:40 PM

108. Now, will you promise to calm down for awhile? Like, for his entire term, maybe?

Chavez is clearly very popular in his own country. I don't care what anyone thinks of his politics, but he's been repeatedly elected in fair and transparent elections. He is the choice of the Venezuelan people.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #108)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:58 PM

116. It was an election. C'mon, give me a break.

I was in the bubble. It was fun.

Yes I won't be posting as much because ... there won't be much to post about.

I just people would quit lying about me and saying I supported a right winger.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:54 PM

2. Those results seem to be inline with the polls I found.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:42 AM

52. There were exit polls favoring Capriles earlier today

but even had he won, it was no referendum on policy, not at this point.

I hope Chavez is smart enough to be grooming successors so the default when he dies isn't a swing back to the far right.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #52)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:50 AM

64. Exit polls by the firm Varianzas...Now look at the list

Varianzas has been deviating from the other pollsters numbers by 10 points in favor of Capriles. So there is either something wrong with their methodology, or there is something wrong with the methodology of the other 6 independent organizations on the list(and the Venezuelan election process...and Jimmy Carter's judgment). I think it is reasonable to go with the former scenario.

Chavez is polling weaker than the last election though. So there may indeed be a political shift happening.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:55 PM

3. The people of Venezuela have spoken (again).

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:59 PM

6. Yeah, 16% of the 26% Chavez won by in 2006 went to Capriles.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:27 PM

15. Uh? What? Please explain.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #15)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:29 PM

16. Chavez won by 26% in 2006. He won by 10% in 2012. 16% that went for him went to Capriles.

That is a major erosion in his base.

This explains why the opposition seemed upbeat even with the loss.

They're waiting for Chavez to kick it and will run again.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:40 PM

21. Not sure how you come up with that.

I'd say 9%.

Chavez got nearly 63% of the vote in 2006, Rosale 37%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006#Results

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Response to Wilms (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:09 AM

27. Fair enough, but he had to take votes *away* from Chavez.

So I guess I was double counting...

edit: still, Chavez won by 26 points in 2006 and only 10 points in 2012. That's a 16 point drop. While technically Capriles only gains 8 (every vote that Chavez loses Capriles gains), it's still a 16 point erosion in Chavez' base.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:53 AM

55. Remind me never to hire you as my accountant.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #55)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:51 AM

59. Fair enough.

Capriles took 16 points from the opposition. Anyone who disputes that can't do math.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #106)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:38 PM

127. LOL

Forgot about the Iraqi Tommy Flanagan.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:22 AM

72. Sour grapes news-splanation?

I'm really curious why anyone here would be supporting the rightwing dismantlement of democratic socialism in Venezuela.

The people of Venezuela once again voted to continue their experiment in Latin American democratic socialism. The elections were fair and open and monitored by international observers. Had Chavez lost, I would have accepted that defeat. I would not have, absent any actual factual basis, been attempting to discredit the outcome.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #72)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:35 PM

92. Capriles is not right wing.

For the millionth time.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #92)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:57 PM

95. Wiki says you are wrong, for the millionth +1 time.

You can pretend otherwise, and you likely will, but the fact remains that you have been cheering on the right in Venezuela.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #95)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:20 PM

99. The wiki is wrong.

The right wing in Venezuela don't like Capriles' views.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #99)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:27 PM

100. Then I suggest you edit the wiki page.

As you seem to believe you are or have more authoritarian sources, or perhaps instead you are engaged in a definitional argument over the term "right". Are you claiming that there exist venezuelan political parties to the right of primojustica, and that therefore primojustica is "left"?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #100)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:37 PM

103. I would but Wikipedia has a no original research clause.

It is easy enough to find a link to the right wing and to the left wing but I'm not concerned about it. I just don't like people lying about his views. If I asked anyone on DU who lied and said that he was a right winger what his views on housing were they wouldn't know what to say.

Capriles had the far left socialist and even communists backing him.

45% of Venezuela didn't vote for a right winger.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #100)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 08:00 AM

141. Psst. "Authoritative sources".

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #141)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 08:14 AM

142. good point, but on reflection the shoe fits.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #72)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:52 PM

152. I have wondered about that also. Anyone who would want to see all the work done, not just by Chavez

although he has been a driving force in Latin America, by the people of that region of the world to end the domination of their countries by predatory Right Wing Global Corporations, destroyed by electing a phony, Paul Ryan type right winger in Venezuela, in my experience has never been from the left in this country.

Latin America's shift from the far right dictatorships has been the hope of the world as we watch the destruction of other parts of the world by the same policies that destroyed South America not so long ago.

Never used to be like this on Democratic boards. It began, this opposition to the swing to the left in S. America around 2004 airc.

Had Capriles, with all his rightwing elements who were backing him, won, the whole region would have been in danger of returning to the days of the School of the Americas and the latest Pinochets who I'm sure are waiting in the wings.

On the good side, Capriles had to pretend to be somewhat 'left' in order to even rate in this election which shows that Chavez' policies are now too popular for the right to be able to destroy them openly.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:56 PM

4. Thanks, Guy Whitey Corngood. Great, wonderful news. n/t

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:57 PM

5. Were they also having congressional elections? If so, when will those results be known?

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:00 PM

7. Those aren't until 2015. State elections (governors) are in December.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:21 AM

51. Thanks for the info.

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #5)


Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:03 PM

9. I respect the democratic process. He is their choice.

That's all I have to say about that.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:11 PM

10. Capriles coneeding now on Globovision.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:13 PM

11. Whatta ya know? His show has been renewed for another season.

What gets me is he's not really that radical, it's just that America has gone so far to the right that CANADA is considered to be commie.

Quick example: In classic Communist takeovers all deeds on all property are null and void and large landowners have their land seized and distributed to poor farmers. Chavez didn't even shut down the local right-wing radio until they openly called for his death.

The man goes into surrounding jungle villages bringing health care and schools.

For that, he must die.

And people ask if the rich hate the poor. They really do. They are willing to kill leaders who are loved by them.

Want to see the same thing here? All Obama has to do is openly visit and fund homeless shelters and I guarantee you Limbaugh will consider it the last straw.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:22 PM

12. Well, that sucks.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:26 PM

14. Your displeasure is my pleasure.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:25 AM

32. 2ndAmForComputers, I agree with Pterodactyl

atleast about it sucking.
Not because I dislike Chavez but rather because I dont feel comfortable with the idea of a politician serving so long in such a high office, I mean imagine the horror if Bush had been able to run for a 3rd or 4th term *shudder*
But that aside I hope the people of his country made a good choice, thats all we can do really.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:36 AM

37. The United States had no term limits whatsoever when people kept electing FDR.

As you know, he died in office or he would have undoubtedly been re-elected. He pulled this country OUT OF THE WORST DEPRESSION IN HISTORY here, and managed the war, and put it behind the country in less time than either one of Bush's wars.

It was, of course, the reeking, stinking Republicans who drove to change our laws to make sure no President who was helping bring hope to the masses would ever have the chance to keep being re-elelected instead of allowing them to continue pillaging our national treasury and stufing their filthy pockets as fast as their meaty, sweaty, pale, squishy little hands can manage it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #37)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:41 AM

39. Yes, I know that judi and sure you sometimes get a gem but more often than not having someone in

power causes more problems than it solves.
I'm not saying Chavez is that bad kind either but he wont be around forever and some day someone else will be elected and if its someone say of the George Bush or Dick Cheney caliber then the country might well and truly be screwed without term limits to assist in damage control.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:12 AM

82. Then propose a bill that puts term limits on being super-wealthy

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:44 PM

128. Not if it is the people's will that they be in power.

But of course, they're brown people who talk funny, they need us rich anglos to figure it out for them. Silly foreigners.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #128)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:07 AM

135. Well I will point out that apparently it was the will of the people that Bush was given a 2nd term

which proves even us silly anglos (sadly I dont even come close to being a rich one) dont always do well in electing our leaders.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #135)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:52 AM

138. That's called democracy.

And with that example in mind, exactly how credible do Americans sound when they bitch about who other people elect? Do as we say, not as we do.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #138)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 01:01 AM

139. Well this American didnt vote for that asshole in either election.

Not that it mattered in the end *sigh*

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:24 AM

74. That whole fdr era was such a nightmare.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #74)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:39 PM

104. Did you just stop after the

" Yes, I know that judi" or did you read the entire post?
Just wondering because if you have a habit of that you might want to consider breaking it as I went on to say "and sure you sometimes get a gem but more often than not having someone in power causes more problems than it solves."
Take Clinton as example, a very good president and probably the best in the past few decades we have had however would it have been good for the country if he had been able to run for more terms in office? Sure it have been but what if we applied the same question to Bush being able to serve more than 2 terms? Would it have been good for the country?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:47 PM

122. Bush never got elected in the first place

And we know now that Reagan was elected by treason, and possibly Nixon as well.

It doesn't matter if you have term limits when people who aren't legally elected are never addressed in a legal fashion. They just install their cronies as the mouthpiece for another term or 11.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #122)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:07 PM

123. Term limits make it harder though for problems to become deeply rooted.

Or atleast thats my opinion.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #123)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:05 PM

125. It's a nice idea in theory

But how many times have we seen Poppy Bush behind the scenes running things? Cheney? Rumsfeld?

I look at the last 30 years, and it looks like an unbroken dynasty of Neocon BS. GWB is a good example of having someone sitting in the oval office while someone else is running the show.

I think it would help if we had a smart electorate. We don't. They take the word of people who polish lies until they shine like diamonds, paid millions a year to do so.

It's really sad how little influence the law really has these days.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #125)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:03 AM

133. I dont know, I still think its a bad idea but hey maybe it will work out for Chavez and his country

*shrug*

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:58 PM

153. Then you must hate our Congress, Supreme Court and Senate.

Bush would not have won a third term. People had begun to awaken to the destruction his regime had caused in this country and I doubt his own party would have encouraged him to run for a third term.

Chavez is a historical figure in South America. He has brought the whole region out of despair and back to sovereignty, not to mention totally pummelled the far right and their Corporate Monsters who kept South Americans in poverty and illiteracy for decades. He is loved in Latin America and in most other parts of the world since they are not exposed to the US right wing propaganda we get here which will always slam any leader who puts his own people first, over and above Corporations.

I am so relieved the right winger did not win even though they tried to pass him off as supportive of some of Chavez' popular policies. We all kow what the Republicans do to the people once they get into power.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #153)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 02:28 PM

156. I dont hate them, no.

I dont care for the whole unlimited terms those in congress and the senate can run for nor do I care to much for the long terms those on scotus have.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #156)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 03:18 PM

157. Yes I have felt that way at times, but then when I really think about it, I realize it is not term

limits that is the problem, it is the obscene amount of money that buys seats for people who if we had a politically savvy electorate an a truly free and questioning media, could never have their images and track records polished during election season to fool low information voters the way they do.

Money, the Media, thousands of unelected think tankers working to ensure that big Corps get their representation in Congress and on the SC (see Thomas eg and how his SC seat was bought by Citizens United and how he paid them back when it was needed), lobbyists etc are the problem. And the Republican owned voting machines which we cannot check, which is unbelievable frankly, which are so easy to manipulate.

Remove all of the above, shorten election season to six months at most, give free air time to viable candidates to make their cases in person, no ads, and term limits would not matter.

Even with all that they have to work with, money etc, they still haven't succeeded in totally taking over this country, but they do make it possible for morons like Bush, Cheney et al to be placed in positions of power.

Which tells me that removing all the, what should be illegal, influences on our elections would result in far better choices.

The reason that Chavez was able to overcome all of those influences, and they were present in Ven, outside money, the Right's control of the media there, Capriles family owns or owned a huge part of the media there, is because Venezuelans still remember what it was like before Chavez, they still recognize the deceptions, they still fear a return to the old days when Ven. was controlled by big money and 80% of the people lived in poverty and illiteracy.

Plus, Chavez has given them concrete proof that his promises are not just campaign rhetoric. Capriles was forced to pretend he was supportive of some of those policies because they are so popular now that no Right Winger can win an election there as they can here, by slamming his policies. But the people did not trust him and his right wing coalition, and good for them. Our electorate is not as informed as the people there still are.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:15 AM

29. And why is that?

 


Funny how Venezuelan elections are more transparent than ours, isn't it?

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Response to The Doctor. (Reply #29)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:17 PM

124. What do you mean? You think US elections are rigged?

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #124)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:47 PM

129. I think so. Rigged AND cajiggered.

That's why turnout is so important. More voters, Dems win is the rule these days.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0601-34.htm

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Response to Kurovski (Reply #129)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 10:51 PM

149. Well, I hope it's rigged in our favor instead of theirs.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #149)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:45 PM

151. There is no 'rigged in our favor'.

 


No matter what 'side' you're on.

If elections are rigged, then our 'representatives' don't have to give a damn about us.

Please, don't think like a right-winger. Grow up.

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Response to The Doctor. (Reply #151)

Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:03 PM

159. OK.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #124)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:42 PM

150. That's not what 'transparent' means.

 


Our elections are not transparent.

And given the 1000 or so hours I've spent studying them in the US, any of my opinions on the matter are quite easily and heavily supported.

Lemme guess; you've spent all of 15 minutes listening to what Limbaugh and Fox 'News' have to say about our elections and believe yourself to be an authority.

You could get a solid, well-researched, and reality based education on the matter here on DU, but that would be too much like work, wouldn't it?

Up to you.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:23 AM

73. Perhaps the right will win here to brighten your day.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #73)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:15 AM

84. .

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:22 PM

13. Good, f*** the NYT/Reuters Capriles propaganda

I'm tired of the western media blatantly propagandizing Venezuelan elections. You feel like you're reading Pravda USA. The New York/DC investor mafia must be reeling from such a crushing defeat.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:30 PM

17. Since when do Dictators run for re-election?





Mmmmm, the tasty tears of DU's right wing Chavez haters.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:51 AM

53. See #14.

And joshcryer's exceedingly creative math

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:31 PM

18. Well, I guess Matt Drudge is in mourning

he was practically orgasmic this morning over the election - and there go his whole red-baiting "Derpty derp socialism is being defeated! Just wait til November!" headlines he was planning to run for the week.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:36 PM

19. Venezuela's Capriles accepts defeat, congratulates Chavez on re-election

Venezuela's Capriles accepts defeat, congratulates Chavez on re-election
Reuters

11:18 p.m. EDT, October 7, 2012

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles accepted defeat and congratulated President Hugo Chavez on Sunday for his re-election victory.

"I send him my congratulations," Capriles told supporters at his campaign headquarters, looking downcast but saying he was proud of the large number of voters who turned out to cast their ballots for him.

http://www.courant.com/news/nation-world/sns-rt-us-venezuela-election-caprilesbre89702i-20121007,0,1093933.story

(Short story, no more at link.)

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:38 PM

20. Wonderful Victory for President Chavez, Big Loss for U.S. Capitalists and Their Puppets.



If you had read the U.S. and international media in the last six sixth months, you would believe that President Chavez was first dead from cancer and then defeated in this election. Chavez's energetic campaign and his victory tonight just prove how utterly dishonest our media is.

The big corporations that rule the U.S. are simply terrified that Americans would learn the facts about the wonderful programs the Chavez administration has implemented, including an efficient and verifiable voting system. The last thing the capitalists want is genuine democracy and a government that cares about the lives of its people.

Viva Bolivarian socialism! May the U.S. find its own Chavez and its own socialist revolution -- and quickly!

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Response to Justina For Justice (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:45 PM

22. I beg to differ - big win for the US...

A loss for the bad guys here, but that's good. I consider our people to also be winners, even if they're unaware of it. We can learn a lot from this example.

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Response to Justina For Justice (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 08:10 PM

158. Thumbs up and welcome Justina...........

GREAT points about Chavez's illness and defeat and their trumpeting in the mass media. Join us in the Socialist Progressive group. It sounds like you might like it.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)


Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:55 PM

24. I have never seen why this man is so criticized

It seems he's done a lot to improve a country that was in poor standing before, and the people like him enough to vote for him. He may not be a perfect leader, but none are and overall he seems to be the best leader for Venezuela.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:04 AM

26. Because the Venezuelan equivalent of country club Republicans used to run the country,

and they no longer do. Establishment North Americans feel more kinship with the country club types who started the attempted coup, not with that feisty mixed-race guy who dares to give the finger to international corporate interests.

Since there is no perfect society or perfect government, the Beltway Establishment types and the interns at their think tanks find it easy to pick up on failings of the Chavez government and paint him as a dictator.

By the way, real dictators typically "win" by much larger margins, like 99%, or they don't even bother to hold "show" elections.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #26)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:11 AM

48. Well said!! Thank you.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #26)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:31 AM

62. +1,000

Why don't the Beltway elites ever label Rick Perry as a rightist dictator?

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #26)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:01 PM

121. That's a good summary

It kind of makes you wonder what kind of propaganda machine we have going here. I wonder how we would see a guy like Chavez if he was an American running for office?

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #121)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:05 PM

154. If he was running here, we on the left would all be supporting him, he would be like FDR on social

issues and he opposes the Death Penalty eg, among other things. And the Right would be doing everything in their power to destroy him.

We learned that Western Powers spend millions on anti-Chavez propaganda, which you see in most of the copy and paste 'articles' that appear in Reuters, Yahoo, the NYT all the time here. They over use 'scary' words like 'socialist' etc and have never once credited him with all he has done for his own people. They outright lie about him knowing the average American isn't going to be reading independent news. And that is what they would still be doing if he was running here and we would be trying to fight them off.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #26)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:49 PM

130. Lydia's got it.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:00 AM

46. The U.S. has a history of supporting right wing parties and dictators.

Probably because they are pro-business and often corrupt, willing to admit foreign exploiters of their people and resources in exchange for personal bribes.

Apparently the Chavez experiment in socializing their vast national oil wealth is going more or less okay.

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Response to moondust (Reply #46)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:29 AM

70. That can be summed up as being

for their own selfish reasons.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:28 PM

119. Socialist. Oil. n/t

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:54 AM

143. Because the Oligarchy doesn't like that he neutralized them

To a large extent. They also hate that he seized their private golf courses. For real.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:03 AM

25. Good, Sir

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:12 AM

28. My condolences to the people of Venezuela.

 

The corruption, crime, and economic disintegration will continue to grow worse.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:17 AM

31. Keep smokin'.

 

'Cause reality ain't yer thing, bub.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:31 AM

35. Dude. You're making us look bad.

 

Go away, troll.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:26 AM

75. Wrong turn?

There are probably other places that would be more accepting of the view that a populist left wing democratic government is a disaster.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:18 AM

80. Viva Socialism -

and do enjoy your hopefully very short stay.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:46 PM

109. How dare they vote for the government they want. (nt)

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:33 PM

113. Democracy sucks

if it doesn't go your way huh?

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Response to I love weed (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:56 AM

144. Aren't you the cutest thing!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:17 AM

30. Live streaming of Chavez acceptance speech

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #30)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:53 AM

44. Cool! They're still celebrating in the streets. Thank you. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #44)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:54 AM

45. He can give a rousing speech

They are partying all night for sure

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:29 AM

33. This is going to make the GOPers angry

and that's a good thing!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:31 AM

34. What accounts for the exit poll win for the opposition?

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:45 AM

40. I'm waiting for an explanation from the Spanish newspaper that

made the claim. There are no exit polls in Venezuela that I know of.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:03 AM

66. Check out this subthread.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:17 AM

69. Failed precipitous optimism and wishful thinking

aka in their dreams.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:27 AM

76. Right wing disinformation.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #76)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:53 PM

131. It's "funny", The right wing wants to pretend fake exit polls in Venezueala are real

And that the real exit polls in The US are fake.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:16 AM

85. there were no exit polls

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Response to iandhr (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:04 PM

107. The CIA.

I'm sure that will be the answer.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:32 AM

36. K&R!!!



- Congratulations, El Presidente

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)


Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:46 AM

41. It's sad

but not surprising I guess, to see so many of the DLC/third way-type folks posting here unhappy about the legitimate re-election of a true progressive hero. At least this thread is less ugly than some of the others I've seen.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:46 AM

42. He knew saying he would Vote for Obama would help him

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:50 AM

43. Next presidential election, 2019.

It's not what I'd prefer, were I Venezuelan; however, they do of course have a recall provision which can be relatively easily utilized. Congratulations to the people of Venezuela for their election. I support Venezuela against any foreign attempt at interference.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #43)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:11 AM

49. I believe the recall must wait a year or two and I think that would be a stupid move.

The opposition will probably just bide its time. They have governor elections coming up in December (and no doubt the opposition will use their non-totally-obliterated defeat as proof that they can go far) and mayoral elections sometime next year.

The running theory within (the more cynical) opposition circles is to wait for Chavez to kick the bucket and run again. In Venezuela if the President dies or is not able to lead they must have new elections (with the exception that if it is the last two years of the Presidency the Vice President takes over).

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:04 AM

47. Im sorry but he's been in power for too long

4th term?

This is why I thank god we have a 2-term limit in the USA.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:41 AM

56. FDR died much too early.

And his presidency could have accomplished much more good. The term limits thing in the US is fairly new in historical perspective.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:18 AM

63. You regret FDR's 4th term?

Winning WW II?

Founding of the United Nations?

U.S. voters 4th endorsement of the "New Deal"?

You disagree with virtually all of the Founders of this country, who opposed term limits as reactionary and undemocratic?

If the people elect a leader who is serving them well, there is no reason whatever why they should not be able to re-elect that leader as often as they, in their collective judgement, wish to do so. That was the position of our Founders and they did not place any term limits in the Constitution for that reason. Term limits are undemocratic.

The Republicans rammed through an amendment to change this, in the mid-1950s, and put a two-term limit on the president, in order to prevent a "New Deal" from ever happening here again, and to begin to dismantle the one that we had (which they have very nearly accomplished).

In Venezuela, term limits were put to a vote of the people--in an election system that Jimmy Carter just recently called "the best in the world," and which has been closely monitored and certified as honest and transparent by every major elections group in the world. In an honest vote, they voted term limits down, for the president and for governors. And they knew, at that time, that this would mean that Chavez would run for a third term. He has now done so and they have voted for him again.

The thing is, it takes a lot of energy and a lot of time to create a "New Deal" for the majority of the people, in the face of the enormous entrenched power of the rich. The rich have their money and their power, and control of land and resources, and their exclusive clubs and their exclusive schools. The poor have TIME. That is all that they have. And so, when they get a leader who serves the majority, and makes things better for the majority, it takes TIME for that leader to re-order the economy and the institutions that favor the wealthy, who are are never quiet, of course--they called FDR a "dictator," too--and never not scheming to get even richer and more powerful.

That's just the reality. FDR needed time. Chavez needs time. The voters gave them time. Though the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean recently designated Venezuela "THE most equal country in Latin America" on income distribution, and though college enrollment has doubled and tuition is free for the poor, and though health care is now universal and free for the poor, and though economic growth is 5% with good wages and benefits and very low unemployment (after a period of sizzling economic growth--10%--during the 2003 to 2008 period (in the private sector and NOT including oil)), and though the Chavez government created a quick recovery from Bush's depression with no cuts to social programs--no "austerity"--there is still much to do in Venezuela, to finish the Bolivarian Revolution--Venezuela's "New Deal"--and to firm it up to the point that Venezuela's equivalent of Reaganites and Bushwhacks cannot dismantle it.

There are also justifiable criticisms of Venezuela's government and society that need addressing. Venezuelans love guns and have a high murder rate, for instance. But, in the judgement of Venezuelan voters, a rightwing government is not likely to solve these and other difficult problems. The majority of voters trusts the Chavez government which has been so successful at solving income inequality and so many other problems.

Why SHOULDN'T Venezuelans have that choice? Because YOU think so? They voted FOR that choice. You would...what? Cancel their vote?

THAT is why our Founders rejected term limits. It is an artificial CANCELLATION of the will of the people.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #63)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:53 AM

65. Great write-up. Thanks for sharing.

We took a rough turn in the 50s.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #63)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:52 AM

89. Our term limits is not about cancelling democracy, it comes from George Washington

Prior to FDR, no president attempted to run for a 3rd term because of this tradition set by Washington. After FDR, the 22nd amendment was passed which officially made it law restricting a president to two terms. If FDR was so fantastic, why did this amendment pass so easily? Even Democrats overwhelmingly agreed with it. Only two states in the Union (OK and MA) rejected it.

Washington himself could have decided to run for a 3rd term and would have no doubt won. He voluntarily stepped down for what believed was the good of democracy. He thought after 8 years the risks of corruption increase. And you will never get the guy out of power. The power of incumbency is quite extreme. It's too much power for our the American philosophy of check and balance government.

Washington also warned that political parties are inherently dangerous and a serious threat to democracy. I think most Americans, in both parties, would agree with this. Our two-party system is broken and damaging the nation. Massive amounts of money are being spent on political campaigns to a point where the average man has no chance to participate in government. Such positions are now restricted to the elite class or the super rich. Congress is LOADED with millionaires. This is what worried Washington...an elite class that thinks they know better.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #89)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:57 PM

111. I wouldn't look to someone who owned slaves for a reasonable example about anything.

Yes, the two party system in the US is totally fucked up. Maybe if we worked to elect visionary populist leaders (I liked Howard Dean a lot, and he supported this), we could have IRV in some races. That would be a great start.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #89)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 06:34 AM

140. The Founders steadfastly rejected putting term limits in the Constitution.

Washington made his own personal decision about retiring after two terms, as did subsequent presidents following his example, but those actually structuring the government and creating its fundamental law specifically rejected term limits as undemocratic.

There is another thing. Washington was making that personal decision in an atmosphere of uncertainty as to the direction that the United States would take. There were those who wanted to offer Washington a crown. Nobody had any experience of running a government with no king. Thus, Washington wanted to squelch any thoughts of hereditary rule. And circumstances did not arise until much later--after THAT issue had been settled--that might have prompted a leader to run for a third term. Lincoln was foreclosed from doing so by assassination. And not until the total fuckup of the rich and their Great Depression did the issue of a third or more terms arise again, with FDR, who had stabilized a failing country, and then, of course, had to deal with the Third Reich and the Japanese Imperium.

FDR was facing the starvation and homelessness of millions of Americans. He met that potential catastrophe not only with creativity and great energy but also with all-important courage and optimism. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That line was spoken about the Great Depression not about the war. We're talking about a real leader--someone who can turn the very psyches of a people around.

Chavez has had a similar galvanizing impact on Venezuela, which had been broken by "neo-liberalism"--by the kind of looting by the rich and "austerity" for the poor that we're seeing in Europe--an assault by the rich and the banksters that hit Latin America before it hit the rest of the western world. The Bolivarian Revolution, like the New Deal, took this catastrophe on, totally, and, though it is a country-wide transformation, driven by the people as much as it is led by Chavez, Chavez has provided those vital elements of courage and optimism. He is very like FDR.

It has been very clear, all along, that that is how Venezuelans view Chavez. They have been consistent in that view from the beginning. His approval rating has barely slipped below 60%, throughout his tenure, and he has won honest and transparent elections time and again, by big margins.

And Venezuelans have supported Chavez all this time in spite of the non-stop political campaign waged by the Corporate Media against him, including, during the 2002 coup d'etat, the Corporate Media directly participating in the overthrow of the elected government. So it is not as if Venezuelans are unaware of every rightwing "talking point" that the Corporate Media have tried to hammer into their heads, from the charge that he is a "dictator" to the charge that he is "incompetent," and everything in between. Venezuelans consulted their own experience and their own judgement of the Chavez government. They voted as a people to let him run for a third term and then they elected him again.

FDR faced similar circumstances--an often vitriolic anti-FDR, anti-New Deal press, which also called him a "dictator." Neither of these leaders is a "dictator." But both have acted in the interest of the great majority of the people against the interests of the rich few and their overweaning wealth and power, and that is why they got called "dictatorial"-- because they wouldn't be dictated to by the rich!.

I want to note again how the decision about term limits was made here vs. how it was made in Venezuela. Here, it was made by the political class, led by the Republicans, in an amendment to the Constitution that clearly violated the intent of the Founders. It was made in Washington and in state capitols. In Venezuela, the decision was made by a vote of the people in an election system that Jimmy Carter recently called "the best in the world" for transparency and honesty. If this matter had been put to a vote of the people here, it might well have become apparent to them that it was an anti-New Deal move made by the moneyed class. The Democratic leaders would not have been able to defend it, because their real reason for supporting it was their fear of an Eisenhower third term. This was foolish and short-sighted. The menace behind the 22nd amendment might have been perceived if the matter had been put to a popular vote.

The flawed amendment process, in our own Constitution, is an example of the less than democratic views that were current in that era. Many of our Founders didn't trust "the people" on some matters--on amending the Constitution by popular vote, for instance--but, curiously, they DID trust them to be able to judge a leader's performance in office as to keeping that leader in office for as long as they wished. They were quite adamant on this point.

Merely getting elected to a second, or third term, or more, does NOT make you a scofflaw, a "dictator" or anything else. What you are depends on what you do with the mandate you have been given, in additional terms of office. Chavez has never overstepped the law. NEVER! That can't even be said about FDR! (i.e. the Japanese interment camps). Chavez in fact has scrupulously followed the law and has also made his program very clear. Venezuelans have known very well what they were endorsing and what to expect from President Chavez. They are a very democratic people--passionately democratic--and it is an insult to them to presume that they are stupid peasants who don't know what they're doing--who somehow keep electing a "dictator" or an "incompetent."

Finally, I would just say this, about term limits: We have term limits on many offices now in the U.S. including president, and do we have a better democracy? Hm? The upshot of term limits is that corporate/war profiteer lobbyists run our government and write our laws! Term limits are part of a package of corruption and corrupt ideas that are in truth destroying our democracy--along with all those New Deal reforms that our forebears tried to insure for posterity--for us--by voting for FDR four times.

Power can be used for good or for ill. But without power, you can do nothing. Yes, incumbency gives you an edge of power. You have TIME to put regulators in charge of the banksters and make sure they do the job they are supposed to do. You have TIME to find out who's who, and what's what, in the systems that have failed, and TIME to correct them and correct them thoughtfully and well. You have TIME to create entirely new systems, to bring fresh ideas to fruition. You have TIME to change the culture within government and the private economy. You have TIME to appoint better judges, to influence legislative committees, to educate and mentor new and better leaders in every field. You have TIME to create a better democracy, with more equal income and opportunity, and more public participation.

You can abuse this power that TIME gives you, or you can use it to do the will of the people. And it is up to the people to monitor and judge what you have done. It is an arbitrary law that says that, despite how you have used the power that you have been given, the people cannot vote for you again, even if they very much approve of your actions and want you to continue. And it is an arbitrary opinion, from the outside, that says that they shouldn't do this--lift term limits, let their president run again (also, governors)--if, in their judgement, that is a beneficial decision.

In practical terms, Venezuela has universal free health care, universal free education through college, very low unemployment, good wages and benefits, strong labor protections, high economic growth, high public participation and clean elections. They don't have term limits.

In the U.S., on the other hand, education and health care have become unaffordable for many people; we have high unemployment, shit wages, vastly decreasing benefits; an outright assault on labor rights; economic growth is at a standstill; the banksters are out of control; our people are disempowered and demoralized, and our election system is extremely corrupt and riggable. And we have term limits.

I rest my case.





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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #140)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:49 PM

148. The problem in the US isn't term limits

The problem is most people are voting for the lesser of two evils and not for what they really want. They don't vote FOR a candidate anymore, they are voting against someone.

This is the average American voter right here:
"Well...I don't agree with 'X' very much. I actually agree with a 3rd party much more. But I hate 'Y' and think he's going to destroy the country. So Im going to vote for 'X' because I don't want 'Y' to win and waste my vote. But in the next election I'll vote for the guy I really want."

You wont see any real change in America until we all get out of that funk. The more we keep voting for the "lesser evil" the bigger hole we dig ourselves. Whether you admit to it not, you know that's the truth.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #63)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 10:00 AM

146. This should be an OP -- seriously

Excellent!

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:17 AM

68. I wonder if Venezuelans think it's too long

 

Oh yeah, they don't.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:51 PM

110. Why? Are Venezuelans too stupid to decide on their own government or something?

You know what's good for them?

We shouldn't have a term limit in the USA. If we had one earlier, there would have been no FDR in WWII, and if we still didn't, I suspect we'd be better off now as well.

Term limits are anti-democratic. I think eliminating them should be something big-D Democrats go for as well.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #110)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 10:01 AM

147. +1

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:39 PM

120. Yeah, he's a regular King Louis XIV

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #120)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:58 PM

132. So True! Louis would have sent heating oil to poor people in the USA if he could have.

I feel it in my bones.

Cake, too

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #47)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:59 AM

145. What did you not like about FDR?

I don't agree with term limits btw.It was only done to neutralize another progressive President.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:13 AM

50. K&R. Glad to hear it.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:51 AM

54. Woo-hoo! Congratulations Venezuela!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:42 AM

57. This is what a real democracy looks like

President Carter says its the best.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8935

A little history on how Bush and the C.I.A. tried to deny the People of Venezuela their rights

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144




























c.





























































i.











































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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:49 AM

58. Excellent news. Viva Chavez!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:59 AM

60. Sweet!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:00 AM

61. I don't think Capriles really expected to "win" this election.

 

But he has made his mark and planted the seeds for future victory. Now he just needs to sit back and wait for Chavez's health problems to reach their logical end.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #61)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:37 AM

81. Yes...we've been waiting for Castro's health problems

to reach the logical end for years. Still waiting......... Not that I agree with Castro but we've done a lot to interfere with their government too. Castro is still kickin'.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #61)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:05 AM

86. yes and he'll be waiting for 6 years..and if Chavez dies his VP takes over..you need to hold off

on the weed for a while and do some research on Venezuela's system of government.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #61)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:34 AM

87. people with your view have been salivating at the thought for quite some time.

i was arguing with one a few months back who was convinced Chavez would be dead long before the election. keep thinking those happy thoughts.

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Response to I love weed (Reply #61)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:10 PM

155. Back in 2002 Capriles and his fellow right wingers thought they could speed up Chavez' 'health

problems', but the Venezuelan people took care of those right wingers' plans back then, and they have done so ever since. Capriles is a lucky man that he was never jailed for his role in that treasonous coup.

Viva Chavez!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:08 AM

67. Good news!

Congratulations President Chavez!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:56 AM

71. Viva!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:27 AM

77. The oil companies lose another election...eom

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:33 AM

78. Seems like he runs every other year

 

How often are presidential elections there?

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Response to Ter (Reply #78)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:00 PM

112. Every six years.

Of course he was overthrown in a coup after the first election.

There was an attempted recall once, which was defeated.

There was a massive push he made for some changes in a referendum that he put up for a vote some years ago, but that wasn't an election for him.

So.. this is his third term, but not his third time dealing with large elections or referendums.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:08 AM

79. Good news for the region

According to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, there has been declining inequality in recent years in Latin America, and that decline in inequality is most obviously due to the influence of hard-left political parties: "the story is quite clear: there has been an overwhelming decrease in inequality and based on a casual observation, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil and Venezuela (four left-of-center countries) appear to have performed particularly well.... There is statistical evidence that countries with left-of-center governments have on average decreased inequality more than their counterparts." This is Chavez's broader political influence in the region.

Capriles, on the other hand, wanted to undermine this influence by ending ALBA.

Capriles also thought it was a great idea for Venezuela to confiscate two-thirds of neighboring Guyana's land. Here is a Guyanese newspaper on Chavez's re-election: "For Guyanese a Chavez victory would be good news since unlike the Opposition, Chavez has been very conciliatory on the Venezuelan claim to two-thirds of our national territory."

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Response to dharmamarx (Reply #79)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:51 PM

114. Thanks for the information on Capriles' idea of taking 2/3rds of Guyana's space. Did not know.

Inexcuseable.

So glad he's gone for now.

Welcome to D.U., dharmamarx.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:14 AM

83. long live democratic socialism!

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #83)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:36 AM

88. here here!!!!!

 

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:08 PM

90. I love your sig line. It needs (said no one ever) right after it.

I was very active in my union for a couple of years up to the state level, and they couldn't figure out why people never fully got behind their barely perceptible incremental political demands.

The attitude seemed to be if we work quietly enough, we might get what we actually want in a century or two.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #90)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:43 PM

91. Thank you. I've always found that saying to be both funny and sad because it

seems to be the mindset our country has adopted after the 60s struggles ( although I wasn't around back then).

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #91)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:40 PM

93. it's the mindset politicians have adopted to grassroots initiatives

If it comes from the bottom up, it can't be done slowly and incrementally enough.

If it comes from the rich and for the rich, it can't be done quickly enough.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #93)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:48 PM

94. We've kept our gun powder so dry that it's just turned into black talcum. nt

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #94)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:58 PM

98. I hate the saying, "The Democratic Party is where progressive movements go to die..."

but it is proving more and more true.

The gigantic protests in Wisconsin we're funneled into a recall election and the Democrats ran the same lackluster candidate who lost to Scott Walker in the first place. It was like the Democrats telling the rest of us, "You don't get it. We already took a dive. When we are paid to throw a fight, we stay down."

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:58 PM

96. The mole community not liking this one

K and R

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:47 PM

97. ˇˇˇViva Chavez!!!

Such happy news to wake up to. This calls for a celebration - red, RED wine!!!!

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #97)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:55 PM

115. And perhaps a modest celebration, why not?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #115)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:17 PM

118. Martha Reeves -

saw her with Little Stevie Wonder in Yokosuka in 67 - my first concert!

Such a joyous tune is fitting for this day!

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #118)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:09 PM

126. That would have been epic. What an experience you had.

There's no one like either act. No one.

Little Stevie Wonder was still little, too.

Youkosuka. I've been there, too. Lived in the Space A terminal waiting to catch a plane back to the U.S.

That would have been some place to get to know. What a country. Lucky you.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:30 PM

101. Congrats Chavez!

He may not be always the nicest person on the planet but he's keeping the right wing authoritarians at bay in South America and giving strength to other SO countries that are embracing a more socialized, bottom-up system.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:32 PM

102. WoooHooo!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:12 PM

105. Rock on Hugo

I hope your revolution spreads through the entire Western hemisphere!

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Original post)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #117)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:04 AM

134. Don't be so cynical!

The 1% are so sad to not have Venezuela's minerals, oil, and labor as is rightly theirs through the Lord Jesus christ, amen.

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Response to Kurovski (Reply #134)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:09 AM

136. Hey, you better fix that and pronto.

You totally forgot the Hallelujah.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #136)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:17 AM

137. We'll give a cry of "Hallelujah"!

When the wealth of Venezuela is rightly in the hands of the world's worthiest billionaires. God would have it no other way.

This is such a tragic injustice! Democracy ruins EVERYTHING!

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