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Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:54 PM

Israel downs unmanned aircraft

Source: BBC

The Israeli air force has shot down a small unmanned aircraft after it entered the south of the country, the military has said.

Troops are searching for remains of the aircraft in the north of the Negev desert. It is not clear where it came from.

Local media quoted officials as saying the aircraft flew in from the west, but not from the Gaza Strip.

It was intercepted at around 10:00 local time (08:00 GMT).

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19857597

37 replies, 7116 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Israel downs unmanned aircraft (Original post)
Bosonic Oct 2012 OP
truthisfreedom Oct 2012 #1
Godless in Seattle Oct 2012 #29
lovuian Oct 2012 #2
HereSince1628 Oct 2012 #3
kentauros Oct 2012 #14
oberliner Oct 2012 #5
itsrobert Oct 2012 #6
MADem Oct 2012 #15
Brother Buzz Oct 2012 #17
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #18
oberliner Oct 2012 #4
leveymg Oct 2012 #8
oberliner Oct 2012 #19
leveymg Oct 2012 #24
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #20
leveymg Oct 2012 #25
pasto76 Oct 2012 #7
azurnoir Oct 2012 #9
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #10
oberliner Oct 2012 #21
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #26
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #22
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #27
Alamuti Lotus Oct 2012 #37
Vidar Oct 2012 #11
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #12
azurnoir Oct 2012 #13
donco Oct 2012 #16
heaven05 Oct 2012 #23
elbloggoZY27 Oct 2012 #28
oberliner Oct 2012 #30
Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #31
oberliner Oct 2012 #32
Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #33
oberliner Oct 2012 #34
Alamuti Lotus Oct 2012 #35
Alamuti Lotus Oct 2012 #36

Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:58 PM

1. From the west... hmm...

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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:07 PM

29. What if it turns out to be one of ours?

 

By neocon logic, we'd have to start bombing Israel. Immediately. Operation Justice For Rachel Corrie is my suggestion as a name for the campaign.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:00 PM

2. Are we talking a DRONE

I thought that was US ?
Does other countries have the technology now?

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Response to lovuian (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:01 PM

3. Well, it's either a drone or they've finally found the R/C sailplane I lost last week...

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:40 PM

14. Okay, that made me laugh!

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Response to lovuian (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:05 PM

5. Drones are all over the place

Not just the US.

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Response to lovuian (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:12 PM

6. I thought Iran was working on them

n/t

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Response to lovuian (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:58 PM

15. It's a giant Iranian model airplane. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:04 PM

17. Run for the hills, Brothers

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Response to lovuian (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:55 PM

18. A simple one's probably within the abilities of a lot of people. They aren't magic. (nt)

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:04 PM

4. The immediate suspect behind the drone that penetrated Israel: Hezbollah

Israel's defense establishment has decided, thus far, to refrain from divulging the full details regarding the origin of the unmanned aerial vehicle that was shot down by the IDF over the Negev earlier Saturday.

The only details published were that the UAV penetrated Israeli airspace from the direction of the Mediterranean, around the Gaza Strip.

Nonetheless, it is unlikely that Palestinian terror organizations from Gaza are responsible for the operation. In recent years, several reports surfaced in the Arab media that Gaza terror groups are showing an interest in UAVs. This incident, however, seems like a more complicated operation and therefore the immediate suspect is Hezbollah.

In the two years before the Second Lebanon War, Hezbollah launched drones into Israel twice. Two more drones were intercepted by the IDF during the war in the summer of 2006, and were believed to had carried explosives meant to go off over central Israel. A fifth drone launched during the war crashed inside Lebanon, likely due to a technical failure.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/east-side-story/the-immediate-suspect-behind-the-drone-that-penetrated-israel-hezbollah-1.468566

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:14 PM

8. Hezbollah explosives-carrying UAVs? Not much of a payload. They're model airplanes, not cruise

missiles. Here's a photo of an Iranian UAV:

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Response to leveymg (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:55 PM

19. What's your theory then?

Whose drone do you think it was?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 06:56 PM

24. Probably Hezbollah's, probably Iranian-built, probably harmless symbolism, unlike

Iran's highly-effective anti-ship missiles, which present a compelling argument against further escalation of tensions with Iran.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:56 PM

20. They still sent an Israeli warship to the repair yard with one in '06, I believe. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 07:02 PM

25. That was the work of one of these: an Iranian knock-off of the Chinese C-802 anti-ship missile.

Unlike the UAV, definitely not a toy.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:14 PM

7. "unmanned aircraft" is pretty vague; could be an RC deal or a globalhawk

you can buy UAVs online. Equip it with a wireless camera for live feed, or program a digital camera for intermittent photos. Retrieve and download later.

So often, as in the this thread, people express a belief that the rest of the world is basically in the stone age. OF COURSE other countries have drones. Remember that was one of the reasons we invaded iraq? I used to reprimand my soldiers when they expressed such a thought during our tour in iraq. "The enemy is wily. Do not underestimate him".

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:19 PM

9. more on past crashes from Ma'an

In December 2010 Israeli aircraft shot down an unidentified object near the Dead Sea, security sources said at the time. They said it might have been a balloon.

Israel's own drones have also crashed in and around the occupied territories in recent years.

One unmanned vehicle crashed in northern Israel in January, a year after an unmanned vehicle crashed inside the Gaza Strip. Hamas' armed wing took control of that drone.

In May, an Israeli military surveillance zeppelin crashed near the Gaza Strip after a civilian plane struck its cable, a military spokeswoman said at the time.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=526520

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:20 PM

10. Honestly difficult to imagine who would find utility in using a drone to scope Israel.

Think about it. What would be the full end-to-end utility of such a foray in a realistic military context? And by "realistic" I mean in the context of people who are likely to attack Israel with mortars, rockets, etc. I assume we're talking about a fairly primitive device here and not something Raytheon made. BTW, on Haaretz there's a video snapshot of the destroyed drone in the air. The attacking jet appears to be looking up at it, which means it was flying at a fairly high altitude. Strange.



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:56 PM

21. So what is your theory beyond this incident?

Do you have any thoughts?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #21)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 08:14 PM

26. No. I'm interested to see what their anlysis is of the debris.

It doesn't help that there wasn't a good description or image of the drone before it was destroyed. No idea of size or scale and I don't know how much of the explosion is a result of an AA missile or a payload detonating onboard.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 06:17 PM

22. I figured the attacking jet is the one you can see on the edge there

Not the one looking directly at it, but the one pulling away from the missile's flight path in the clip they released.

(Also, cameras aren't necessarily fixed and forward-looking.)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 08:15 PM

27. "Also, cameras aren't necessarily fixed and forward-looking."

Really good point!



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:03 AM

37. Just to show that it could be done

 

Psychology is an important part of warfare. Israel conducts itself largely on the assumption that it may act however it wishes with relative impunity (for a variety of reasons);--informing them that they are not the only one who can do this stuff is a strong message. I doubt it will be interpreted correctly, these things rarely are.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:22 PM

11. I hope it's one of our's. Death to the drones!

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:31 PM

12. Found a picture...

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:35 PM

13. according to ynet Israel says Iran or ally testing Israel

Downed drone: Iran testing Israel's capabilities

Unmanned aircraft shot down by F-16 jets in south Israel was apparently launched from Lebanon by Hezbollah, or perhaps even by the Iranians themselves

A few hours after two fighter jets shot down a small unmanned aircraft that penetrated Israeli airspace in the south Saturday morning, it is safe to say that an element operating in Lebanon under the auspices of Iran and with its support, apparently Hezbollah, activated the drone. The drone itself, which was downed in the south Mount Hebron area, was apparently made in Iran.

Operating a drone by remote control from such a long distance requires advanced capabilities, which Israel was not aware Hezbollah had acquired.

The drone was apparently launched by Iran or one of its allies to test the IDF's detection and interception capabilities, and perhaps even to search for specific targets in south Israel. The drone apparently began its flight in Lebanon and then headed in the direction of Gaza's coastline after flying over the Mediterranean Sea. This route was chosen not only because it utilized the depth of the sea's airspace, but also because Israeli UAVs regularly hover above Gaza.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4289188,00.html

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 05:02 PM

16. Didn't Iran post

some pictures to one of our downed drones a few month's back?

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 06:45 PM

23. uh oh

Last edited Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)

this is how things usually kick off. Provocation, counter provocation, sometimes false flag 'provocations, remember start of Hitler's campaign in Poland, then the feces usually hits the rotating oscillator.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 08:42 PM

28. Guess Who!

 

Like maybe Iran.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:51 AM

30. Lebanese TV channel: Hezbollah behind drone mission

Hezbollah-affiliated channel Al-Mayadeen claims drone that infiltrated Israeli airspace belongs to Shiite terror group. Meanwhile, Islamic Jihad denies involvement

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4289309,00.html

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Response to oberliner (Reply #30)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:48 PM

31. Holy misdirection, Batman!

The text of the article you linked to appears to clearly claim that Islamic Jihad was responsible, not Hezbollah.

Although Ynet writers deserve credit for muddying the waters with their intro blurb:

"Hezbollah-affiliated channel Al-Mayadeen claims drone that infiltrated Israeli airspace belongs to Shiite terror group. Meanwhile, Islamic Jihad denies involvement."

The "Shiite terror group" mentioned in the first sentence appears to be Islamic Jihad, not Hezbollah.

Whether Islamic Jihad is a cut-out for Hezbollah is another issue.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:08 PM

32. I think you are confused

Hezbollah is the Shiite group in question.

Islamic Jihad is a Sunni group.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:31 PM

33. It is a tad confusing, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Organization

This refers to Islamic Jihad in Lebanon as a Shia organization. Though it does say it is defunct. The Ynet article, however, refers to it as an actually existing organization, which denied responsibility for the drone. There is nothing in that report that clarifies whether the Islamic Jihad in the article is Sunni or Shia.

Can you point me to references for a Sunni Islamic Jihad in Lebanon?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #33)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:08 PM

34. Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Lebanon

Interview with the leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Lebanon

The following is an interview with Abo Imad Alrifai, leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) in Lebanon, an organisation that has been labelled as a terrorist group by the U.S. and the European Union. Alrifai gives his perspective on Israel, the potential fall of the Assad regime in Syria and what the revolutions across the Middle East and North Africa has meant for PIJ and for the future of the region.

http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/features/interview-with-the-leader-of-palestinian-islamic-jihad-in-lebanon_4082

He is the same person cited in this Wikipedia entry:

PIJís representative in Lebanon, Abu Imad Al Rifai noted, "Our position is to continue. We have no other choice. We are not willing to compromise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Movement_in_Palestine

That entry includes this reference:

Religion Sunni Islam

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #33)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:57 AM

35. let me clarify.. (long)

 

I don't have a wikipedia link (is that even a valid source to anyone?), but I know the history.. they are two entirely seperate and unrelated organizations.

Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a group formed by Fathi Shaqaqi and Abdelaziz Awda in the 1970s, among others, currently led by Ramadan Shallah after Shiqaqi was murdered by Mossad agents in Malta in 1995. Based from a more radical branch of the Muslim Brotherhood than Hamas (roughly from the same climate that produced the Egyptian Islamic Jihad group that assassinated the collaborator Sadat and eventually merged with al-Qai'dah and marched into obscurity and splintering as a result), they focus more on armed resistance than on statecraft & charity work. Shiqaqi was a fairly prolific theorist on the armed combat aspect of the conflict at a time when early Hamas leaders focused mainly on building their following through humanitarian work in collaboration with the Israeli occupation forces. It's an ugly period of time that neither Hamas nor Israel really likes to admit really happened, but it did. The PLO/Fateh was more of a secular/leftist/revolutionary movement (now they are without idealogy except collaboration for profit), PIJ/Hamas represented the forces oriented largely by religion, and the Brotherhood was the more organized force for this ideology at the time due to its ties to the parent group in Egypt and funding from Gulf oil tyrants who supported the reactionary forces against the potential for leftist/communist movements gaining sway anywhere.

Some branches of the Brotherhood (not all, and not dominantly so) were inspired by the Islamic Revolution in Iran and Khumayni(RA) reached out to them at the time in the spirit of a more pan-Islamic political revolution than focusing on any one particular sect or another; Saudi oil money at the time and especially now made sure it was always about particular sects, so the gesture was ultimately less than successful. The deeply conservative (and ancient, these fuckers were old even at that time) leadership of the Brotherhood preferred to keep tight their reigns of power over the group, and refused Khumayni(RA)'s offers of friendship at a time when the US-Zionist pet dictatorship in Egypt really could have been overthrown before Mubarak and his generals could have really cemented power. Instead of working for the best interests of the revolution, they got 30 years of the Mubarak dictatorship before they got their own chance to fuck things up in power now that they're even older. But I'm getting off track..

All the same, PIJ is closer to Iran (I think may even officially be based there now that Damascus has gotten noisy) than Hamas (which is now in the process of being fully coopted by the wahhabi dictatorship of Qatar), but officially of the Sunni schools of doctrine. Unrelated to the Lebanese group (see below), except in choice of what goes at the top of official company letterhead. They have a presence in Lebanon because several thousand Palestinians live there as refugees, and many of which are affiliated with the group. Occasionally fighting takes place on the border from PIJ members and other armed Palestinian factions with a presence there, but Hizbu'llah largely keeps a lid on those things. Some of the more firebrand Wahhabi/Salafi militants there (composed mainly of foreigners with a few locals on the Saudi payroll) greatly resent Hizbu'llah for this, and there has occasionally been conflicts between them based on this and other facts. The conflicts between these forces are much deeper now that the volume has been turned up next door.

The so-called "Islamic Jihad Organization" was (past tense) a shadowy front group primarily led by Imad Mughniyah and Mustafa Badreddin, composed mainly of Lebanon-based militants of an Iraqi Shiite organization called al-Daawa (currently the ruling party in Iraq, oddly enough--and the history of this group is truly fascinating, from its birth in the 50s/60s, to its period of blowing up embassies and being called by the US as the "most dangerous terrorist group in the world"--they were fighting important US ally Saddam Husayn at the time and fighting the Gulf dictators--, to its present collaboration period). Though Mughniyah is later referred to as a high commander of Hizbu'llah's military wing, at the time he was very independent and conducted a variety of operations completely seperate (and occasionally quite harmful to) the nascent Hizbu'llah command structure, then led by a now-grossly unpopular figure named Subhi Tufayli. Tufayli was a bit of a reckless firebrand at the time and following his fall from power in favor of the martyred Abbas Musawi and eventually Hasan Nasrallah. Tufayi has since made occasional trouble for Hizbu'llah and the state with his limited, but heavily armed, following in the Bekaa. Haven't seen much of him lately, but I don't think he's dead yet.

The IJO group, such as it was, conducted strategic kidnappings and high-profile bombings against foreign forces in Lebanon. They mostly made headlines (mostly of the "bad" kind), and did not really alter facts on the ground--aside from the smoldering ruins of certain embassies and foreign invader Marines installations. The famous kidnappings were very specifically intended to be a reaction and resolution to the kidnapping of many al-Daawa/other members in Kuwait (google "Kuwait 17" for an elaboration on this situation), Saddam Husayn's Iraq, and by the zionist occupation forces in Lebanon, but was viewed with negativity from the formal Hizbu'llah command structure and their primary backers in Iran. The organization's independent wings were eventually clipped and absorbed under the formal Hizbu'llah command structure following the ascent of their truly brilliant present leader Hassan Nasrallah. They were never more than a shadowy front for the operations of a couple prolific commanders to begin with, but have nothing to do with the Palestinian organization of similar name.

As an aside, nothing published by Ynet should really be taken too seriously. Merely referring to al-Mayadeen as "Hizbu'llah-affiliated" displays their relative absence of valid knowledge of the matter, and the Israeli writers cloud their piece with inflammatory, biased terminology that is not news reporting but mere editorializing. They probably refer to al-Akhbar newspaper in the same terms, despite the slight hostility that in fact exists between these papers and the party. It is slightly pro-Syrian gov't oriented in the present environment, but anything that isn't overflowing with Saudi/Qatari oil money and supporting the so-called "revolutionaries" is slandered, smeared, and crudely generalized as such.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:59 AM

36. Israeli spies fly warplanes over its neighbors (Lebanon) almost daily, but this is big deal?

 

this is the usual noise from brazen hypocrites, but needs to be referred to for what it is anyway..

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