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Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:05 PM

Venezuela election: Chávez holds mass rally on final day of campaigning

Source: The Guardian

Amid thunder and driving rain, Hugo Chávez stormed to the conclusion of his toughest presidential race yet on Thursday with a passionate address to hundreds of thousands of supporters in Caracas.

The mass rally transformed the city centre into a sea of cheering, dancing, red-shirted followers on the final day of campaigning before Sunday's vote, which looks likely to be the closest since the former tank commander won power in 1998.

The turn-out was bigger than the huge opposition rally staged last Sunday by his rival Henrique Capriles, who has narrowed the gap between the two candidates but is still significantly behind in most polls.

Chávez is the strong favourite, but few are predicting a landslide victory on the scale of past wins. Having battled cancer for most of the past year, he has been less visible than during previous campaigns.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/05/venezuela-election-chavez-rally

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Reply Venezuela election: Chávez holds mass rally on final day of campaigning (Original post)
alp227 Oct 2012 OP
joshcryer Oct 2012 #1
Flatulo Oct 2012 #2
joshcryer Oct 2012 #4
David__77 Oct 2012 #6
joshcryer Oct 2012 #8
David__77 Oct 2012 #10
joshcryer Oct 2012 #11
vinny9698 Oct 2012 #21
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #26
joshcryer Oct 2012 #33
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2012 #35
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #45
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #39
joshcryer Oct 2012 #44
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #25
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #3
bitchkitty Oct 2012 #5
Marksman_91 Oct 2012 #7
joshcryer Oct 2012 #9
I love weed Oct 2012 #12
Marksman_91 Oct 2012 #13
boppers Oct 2012 #14
joshcryer Oct 2012 #16
boppers Oct 2012 #19
frylock Oct 2012 #34
joshcryer Oct 2012 #43
joshcryer Oct 2012 #15
I love weed Oct 2012 #17
COLGATE4 Oct 2012 #22
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #27
joshcryer Oct 2012 #30
harmonicon Oct 2012 #18
joshcryer Oct 2012 #20
Ter Oct 2012 #23
yurbud Oct 2012 #24
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #28
yurbud Oct 2012 #29
joshcryer Oct 2012 #32
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #38
joshcryer Oct 2012 #40
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #41
joshcryer Oct 2012 #42
joshcryer Oct 2012 #31
yurbud Oct 2012 #36
joshcryer Oct 2012 #37
yurbud Oct 2012 #46
joshcryer Oct 2012 #47

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:16 PM

1. "Some had travelled hundreds of miles on overnight buses."











"Some" sure.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:19 PM

2. Nice work, Josh... "Some" indeed! nm

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:46 PM

4. No problem, thought it was funny. Twitter is amazing.

Activists were watching the buses and it was trending. Basically all of downtown Caracas was forced closed so the buses could get in.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:17 PM

6. That's good organization.

I wish the Democrats in this country would do this.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:02 AM

8. I would hope that the Democrats in this country wouldn't make attending a rally compulsory.

Obama's inauguration did have some people bussed in by state and Democratic people, though, but I think they genuinely wanted to see history being made.

Generally busing in supporters is frowned upon, imo.

I can see busing them in after an achievement, as a reward for helping do something, but before an achievement? It is really propagandistic.

Reminds me of Gaddafi busing supporters around Libya. It's all about the perceptions game.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:15 AM

10. I think that it's fine for it to be expected of party members.

But unfortunately the Democratic Party is not a "party" in that sense. No one should face discrimination for attendance or non-attendance (discrimination in housing, employment, etc.).

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Response to David__77 (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:25 AM

11. How else do you get people to go?

You have die hard supporters who would go anyway, with or without you providing transportation, and you have others who would only go if they had something dangled in front of them such as the possibility that if they didn't go they'd lose their job.

Anyway, they don't really order them to go and there's no official discrimination policy if they don't go, but there are lists being made of the people who don't attend and that can have repercussions despite it not being an official policy.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:18 AM

21. Just like the Koch funded freedom works bussing in tea party

Dick Armey makes $500,000 per year astro turfing for the Kochs.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:56 PM

26. Hundreds of thousands of active supporters want to go to a rally...

And you think you can spin this evident popularity of Chavez into a negative? Please. It's pathetic.

Also, I like the implication of "compulsory." You think they were brought in at gun point?

Why does the CIA have to invent talking points, like the ones you're dispensing? As we see, because reality is contrary. Nature abhors human bullshit.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:28 PM

33. Um, I read the personal experiences of government workers there.

I know you love to insult me as some CIA dude but you are just ill informed and when Chavez loses day after tomorrow it's going to be amusing to see your spin.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 05:27 PM

35. Chavez is going to lose?

I doubt that. Legitimately or not, he will win.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:36 PM

45. In 9 out of 1000 alternate realities.

According to string theory.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:59 PM

39. You are not some CIA dude.

You just talk the CIA trash, like a lot of Americans. You're very concerned about interfering in the business of countries (good or bad) that the US does not have direct hegemony over. You're always talking trash about the designated enemy of the week: Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Syria, Cuba, etc. But you're strangely silent about those countries with horrible conditions for which the US is directly responsible. Countries where US influence could actually improve the situation, without needing to intervene or employ bellicose rhetoric. Countries that receive US aid to do horrible things, like Colombia, Mexico, Israel. Demand that your own house clean up first, before you get obsessed with places that can genuinely say the US fucked them, and who have every reason to fear US influence.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #39)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:31 PM

44. There are plenty of other posters who do that already.

Why would I double the workload and ignore the countries whom aren't in the spotlight and whose issues are deflected, downplayed, ignored, marginalized?

I just post on a forum, I post what I see and the knowledge I gain.

What's important is that I don't go around defending Colombia, Mexico, Israel, etc. I often rec threads that denounce issues in Colombia, et al.

On DU there are posters who will rally around or who will deflect, ignore, or overall dismiss issues in countries that have an anti-American sentiment. Just because those countries have leaders that are anti-American (nevermind most citizens of those countries couldn't care less)!

I don't work that way. I judge situations on a case by case basis. It's not so black and white for me.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:54 PM

25. Crazy how hard you want to spin those pictures.

Thanks for providing the pics. They are clear evidence that many thousands of people traveled to the pro-Chavez rally from everywhere in the country. So many that the major thoroughfares were clogged with buses. This is yet another obvious sign of the Chavista's enormous popularity.

And you're trying to suggest what? Are they all hired drones! Several hundred thousand people in Caracas - all from central casting.

If a million-person march is held in Washington, you'll see hundreds of buses arriving at once.

But after the inevitable results Sunday you'll try to suggest it was a fix! No one is supporting Chavez. No one is in those buses!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:22 PM

3. I say good luck to Venezuela, and good luck to the next president whoever gets elected.

they say that is looks like it will be a fair election.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:13 PM

5. Viva Chavez! n/t

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:34 PM

7. Capriles had the same numbers as Chávez, maybe more, without any buses

If anyone has been paying close attention to both campaigns, you'd see that Capriles has the greater support of the people. He had just as much people in Caracas last Sunday, and he didn't need to bring in people from outlying towns and cities with buses. Those buses, by the way, were commissioned by the government itself to bring those folks in. And MANY of them are public workers who were probably threatened or bribed to go. People move for Capriles because of what he represents, chavistas move for Chávez for either money or fear.

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:13 AM

9. Nah, not threatened, they were "politely reminded" to attend the event.

Of course, at the event chavistas go around with a "pase de lista obligatoria."

If you didn't kindly attend the event?

Job could be at stake, personal contacts could be jeopardized, kickbacks almost certainly gone. Should have a damn good excuse. It's cronyism at its worst. Either you're with us or against us. Economic suppression for political views. Mitt Romney's "47%" realized to its fullest extent.

Chavez probably had a few thousand more than Capriles in Caracas, but as you point out, it would've never happened without the government paid-for buses (it damn sure didn't come from donations or people volunteering their time like with Capriles).

Capriles' event in Barquisimeto was amazing. It's going to be interesting how this pans out.

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:49 AM

12. What is your final prediction, Marksman?

 

Who will win? And what will the loser do after the election? I get the feeling that the election will be only the beginning...

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Response to I love weed (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:01 AM

13. My prediction? To be perfectly honest... I really don't know

I truly believe that Chávez no longer has the majority. But he will do anything to stay in power, and he's got the government's resources under his control. What gives me hope is that the opposition had the majority of votes in the 2010 parliamentary elections. And the many manifestations that Capriles has called for have shown a lot more support than Chavez's. Right now, to me, the elections seem pretty even.

Also, lemme show you an image of what Iris Valera, the woman Chávez put in charge to run the newly created Ministry of the Penitentiary System, posted on Twitter:



This is legit, check her twitter to see for yourself. In case you don't know Spanish, she's saying "Keep crying, skinnies (rough translation of "escuálidos", the term Chávez made popular when referring to anyone from the opposition). And buy LOTS of vaseline for Sunday because the rod we're gonna stick in you on the 7th is not made of water". Lemme remind you that this woman was hand picked by Chávez himself to run a MINISTRY.

AND another article where Chávez admits that his government hasn't been following his project to the fullest:

http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/129525/la-falta-de-seguimiento-a-los-proyectos-el-mayor-error-del-gobierno-admite-chavez/

Again, you need to know Spanish to understand. Basically he admits that his government hasn't really been efficient as it could be, and yet he's asking to be re-elected for another 6 years. If his gesture as president really hasn't been efficient in 14 years, with oil prices hitting historical heights, and with pretty much a National Assembly under his control for the majority of those years, then I think it's obvious what we can expect for another 6 years.

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:26 AM

14. Classy.

Ha ha, rape is funny if you support Chavez.

This is what happens if you make a person into a king for over a decade, and why the US has term limits.

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Response to boppers (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:45 AM

16. Chavistas have a lot of vile homophobes, too.

Here's an image of a Capriles effigy dressed in a bikini in a coffin at the Caracas rally (the one mentioned in the OP).



Chavez' Secretrary of State called Capriles and his supporters an atrocious epithet for homosexuals. Chavez has called Capriles everything from a Nazi to a pig (Capriles has a Jewish background and his grandmother was in Warshaw, just to put things into perspective).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:19 AM

19. It's time for Chavez to go.

If his ideas are good, he doesn't matter.

If people worship him, it's not about his ideas.

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Response to boppers (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 05:09 PM

34. the US has term limits because the repubs didn't want another FDR

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Response to frylock (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:22 PM

43. True.

Clinton would probably still be President (I know people here would hate that but that's what I think).

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:29 AM

15. The funny thing about "escuálidos" is that Capiles supporters have embraced it.

They love their skinny boy.

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 03:13 AM

17. I don't read Spanish.

 

But that tweet from the "Minister" is absoultely disgusting. Corruption must run extremely deep in your country.

I simply can't imagine Chavez giving up power voluntarily. There is no way he will "lose" the election, I think.

The question is - will the country accept questionable results? Or will there be civil war?

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:18 AM

22. True class from a Chavez cabinet Minister! nt

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:59 PM

27. At least she didn't stage a CIA backed coup d'etat.

And your indictment of Chavez is that he can admit mistakes?

Your accusation against this terrible dictator is that he apologizes because he knows they can do better?

Basically anything Chavez says or does will be spun into your pre-set narrative.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:23 PM

30. The opposition has been saying that for years! He would shoot it down every time!

C'mon. It's his Romney moment. Romney comes out against the middle class and poor, which is what Democrats have been saying for so long. Chavez comes out and says the country is in disrepair and crime is unjustifiable, which the opposition has been saying for so long.

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Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 03:58 AM

18. We'll find out tomorrow, won't we?

Was it fear of Chavez that made low ranking officers assist him in escaping from his kidnappers after their coup?

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #18)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:47 AM

20. Still about 48-54 hours before we know.

If it's close the CNE won't call the election until they're 100% sure.

48 hours from now would be the earliest I reckon it'll be called unless there's a blowout one way or another.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:17 PM

23. It seems like he's always running for president

 

How often are the elections there?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:31 PM

24. leaked docs show anti-Chavez candidate plans to go full neoliberal after election

In early September 2012 David De Lima, a former governor of Anzoategui, published a document he said showed secret MUD plans to implement much more neoliberal policy, if elected, than their public statements showed. De Lima said the document was a form of policy pact between some of the candidates in the MUD primary, including Capriles. On 6 September 2012 opposition legislator William Ojeda denounced these plans and the "neoliberal obsessions" of his colleagues in the MUD; he was suspended by his A New Era party the following day. Capriles said that his signature on the document was a forgery, while the MUD's economic advisor said that the MUD had "no hidden agenda", and that its plans included the "institutionalisation" of the government's Bolivarian Missions so that they would no longer be "subject to the whims of government". Nonetheless, several days later four small parties withdrew from the MUD coalition. One small coalition party claimed De Lima had offered them money to withdraw from the MUD; De Lima denied the claim. On 30 September, another opposition politician, Aldo Carmeno from christian-democratic party COPEI, withdrew support to Capriles, criticised Capriles for "false" and "tricking of venezuelan people". Carmeno announced support to Hugo Chávez.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2012#cite_note-31

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Response to yurbud (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:03 PM

28. Shh! Don't notice the oligarchy.

Capriles and his rich friends are "the people." The millions for Chavez, who even travel from everywhere in the country to join his rallies, are all "compulsory" party drones.

Tea Party rhetoric against Obama is prohibited on this board, but just take the same statements and replace Obama's name with Chavez, you can post it here all day.

If we saw even 1/10th as much persistence on DU from people drawing attention to the truly repressive governments that happen to be US "allies," like Colombia, Honduras... dare I say Mexico with its US-designed drug war?

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:09 PM

29. no one apparently has the time, and definitely no one is getting a paycheck to do the latter.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:27 PM

32. The millions for Capriles didn't have to be bussed in.

And they weren't compelled to wear the "party colors."

The "pase de lista obligatoria" is real, there are pictures of the roll calls being called out and many government workers are coerced into going because if they don't they won't be on the list and will have to have a damn good excuse for not going (they get a paid day off, the buses are paid for by the government).

It's akin to the President telling all government workers they get a paid day off, to attend his rally, and then a roll call is made, and if people who took the day off aren't on the roll call, they get political recriminations (fired from their job, demoted to a worse position, forced to work harder hours, etc).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:51 PM

38. No, merely invented by you.

"Millions." Sure. There will be a count shortly, and that should settle who has more support.

Just no bullshit after Sunday, okay? Jimmy Carter says Venezuela has the fairest elections of any country, I'll take his word over your constant retail dispensary of CIA talking points about all of the Officially Designated Enemies. Okay?

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #38)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:04 PM

40. I will admit my mistakes if I am wrong.

I expect to be trashed to fuck and back by vile haters here if I am wrong.

I do not take my prediction lightly.

It would be very demoralizing, depressing, outright toxic if my prediction doesn't pan out.

I mean, hell, just by making the prediction I have you calling me using CIA talking points.

What kind of shit will you throw at me if I'm wrong?

I would not be so confident, I assure you, if I didn't have a lot of information to back up my position.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:11 PM

41. How courageous.

If I'm wrong in my impressions of Chavez's popularity (gathered from reading what people in Venezuela report), then I suppose I could "apologize," but I'd be wrong regardless. The results will demonstrate that, either way.

I won't throw shit at you. I'd love to see you take a break for a few months from repeating the State Department line on Venezuela (and other countries).

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #41)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:20 PM

42. I hope something else comes up because I'll be damn bored...

...the Venezuelan elections have been very entertaining and I won't know what to do with myself.

Maybe go back to playing video games or head back into Environment and Energy (but then the state of the environment is not very positive, either, and I need to get away from the depressing shit).

I thank you for not throwing shit at me if I'm wrong, sadly there are a half dozen others who will happily oblige. Can't say I won't deserve it though, I have been very active in Venezuelan electoral threads.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:24 PM

31. That has been denied by Capriles and he has actually come out in favor of the missions.

In fact Capriles wants to make the missiones law, and has called for the legislation on several occasions.

It's a nice scandal but the Venezuelan people aren't buying it.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:57 PM

36. it sounds like some of the other parties in his coalition have

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Response to yurbud (Reply #36)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:07 PM

37. He doesn't represent those parties, now does he?

I think either it was faked by the Chavistas (they did after all try to get one of Capriles guys' caught taking graft money but when it came out Capriles fired him not even an hour later) or a pipe dream from the other more far right wing groups.

It's simply not rational and doesn't fit Capriles' platform and is untenable to begin with. It makes no sense. Capriles would have a recall election instantly if he tried that crap. That's what people don't understand about the Venezuelan election process.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:53 PM

46. our politicians never have things in their platforms they have no intention of doing?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #46)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:35 PM

47. You can't recall the President of the United States.

You can recall the President of Venezuela.

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