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Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:38 PM

"Most Dangerous City in America" Is Disbanding Its Current Police Force

Source: New York Times

"Most Dangerous City in America" Is Disbanding Its Current Police Force
Saturday, 29 September 2012 11:36 By Kate Zernike, The New York Times News Service | Report

Camden, New Jersey - Two gruesome murders of children last month — a toddler decapitated, a 6-year-old stabbed in his sleep — served as reminders of this city’s reputation as the most dangerous in America. Others can be found along the blocks of row houses spray-painted “R.I.P.,” empty liquor bottles clustered on their porches in memorial to murder victims.

The police acknowledge that they have all but ceded these streets to crime, with murders on track to break records this year. And now, in a desperate move to regain control, city officials are planning to disband the Police Department.

The reason, officials say, is that generous union contracts have made it financially impossible to keep enough officers on the street. So in November, Camden, which has already had substantial police layoffs, will begin terminating the remaining 273 officers and give control to a new county force. The move, officials say, will free up millions to hire a larger, nonunionized force of 400 officers to safeguard the city, which is also the nation’s poorest.

Hardly a political battle of the last several years has been fiercer than the one over the fate of public sector unions. But Camden’s decision to remake perhaps the most essential public service for a city riven by crime underscores how communities are taking previously unimaginable steps to get out from under union obligations that built up over generations.

Read more: http://truth-out.org/news/item/11850-most-dangerous-city-in-america-disbanding-its-police-force

72 replies, 10839 views

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Arrow 72 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Most Dangerous City in America" Is Disbanding Its Current Police Force (Original post)
Judi Lynn Sep 2012 OP
xchrom Sep 2012 #1
blkmusclmachine Sep 2012 #31
iemitsu Sep 2012 #55
aikoaiko Sep 2012 #2
choie Sep 2012 #3
AsahinaKimi Sep 2012 #22
geckosfeet Sep 2012 #29
Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2012 #60
Snarkoleptic Sep 2012 #4
freshwest Sep 2012 #25
leftyohiolib Sep 2012 #5
byeya Sep 2012 #6
Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Sep 2012 #45
alp227 Oct 2012 #70
tama Sep 2012 #7
DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #59
tama Sep 2012 #62
DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #67
tama Oct 2012 #68
MysticLynx Sep 2012 #8
freshwest Sep 2012 #34
bemildred Sep 2012 #9
mwooldri Sep 2012 #10
Taverner Sep 2012 #11
cstanleytech Sep 2012 #15
Taverner Sep 2012 #19
cstanleytech Sep 2012 #42
Cronkite Sep 2012 #12
byeya Sep 2012 #17
Lucky Luciano Sep 2012 #23
obamanut2012 Sep 2012 #13
McCamy Taylor Sep 2012 #14
ancianita Sep 2012 #16
cstanleytech Sep 2012 #18
obamanut2012 Sep 2012 #20
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #27
tama Sep 2012 #36
cstanleytech Sep 2012 #38
daleo Sep 2012 #21
tama Sep 2012 #26
daleo Sep 2012 #33
tama Sep 2012 #35
daleo Sep 2012 #37
tama Sep 2012 #43
daleo Sep 2012 #47
tama Sep 2012 #49
hack89 Sep 2012 #44
lunatica Sep 2012 #24
PavePusher Sep 2012 #40
neverforget Sep 2012 #50
PavePusher Sep 2012 #65
ThoughtCriminal Sep 2012 #28
Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #30
Shadowflash Sep 2012 #56
sarcasmo Sep 2012 #32
navarth Sep 2012 #39
Pterodactyl Sep 2012 #41
navarth Sep 2012 #46
wordpix Sep 2012 #48
Warpy Sep 2012 #51
Kalidurga Sep 2012 #52
tama Sep 2012 #53
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #54
cstanleytech Sep 2012 #57
valerief Sep 2012 #64
FlaGranny Sep 2012 #58
tama Sep 2012 #63
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #66
sweetapogee Oct 2012 #71
treestar Sep 2012 #61
Quantess Oct 2012 #69
KamaAina Oct 2012 #72

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:41 PM

1. good luck, camden. nt

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Response to xchrom (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:37 PM

31. Everything's going according to plan:

A GOP wet dream, wrapped in the disguise of "bi-partisanship."


Operation Northwoods

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Response to xchrom (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 02:30 AM

55. i don't wish the city that does that to the police union luck.

i hope it backfires big time.
for profit businesses never provide a better service than public sector workers.
its time we tax the rich to pay for our needs. they have gotten a free ride way too long.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:43 PM

2. Wow. Just when I thought nothing could surprise me anymore.


This is really stunning.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:47 PM

3. it's a Republican wet dream

bankrupting a city that then needs to disband a union job force and privatize services. Perfect!

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Response to choie (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:00 PM

22. I betting that

Chris Christie is just loving this..

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:20 PM

29. I'm betting Christie has ownership in several private security firms.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #29)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:24 AM

60. Chances are good that either Christie does or

one of his friends owns such a firm outright.

Any time "privatization" comes up, you can be sure they're going to pick someone who is a friend of the guys in power.

Example: A Republican state legislator from the western suburbs of Portland, Oregon was against public transit and proposed replacing further transit extensions with a system of jitney buses. Turned out that one of her major contributors had a business plan for a system of jitney buses and just needed a little public money to get started...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:52 PM

4. Oh, that's not going to go well.

This race to the bottom stuff will erode cop input into policy and procedure.
Also, who know what sort of hiring standards will be in place. I envision a bunch of cop wannabees like George Zimmerman patrolling the streets.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:20 PM

25. Think paramilitaries. Xe, whoever. Thanks, patriot/teabaggers, you are the fascist party.

Last edited Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:53 PM

5. yea it's the union contract. assssholes

 

Admin mismanagement somehow always translates into union contracts. Blame is better to give than receive

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:58 PM

6. When you fire people who have worked in an area - police in this case - you lose all your

 

information that the cops have built up over the decades on people, places, small businesses - everything. County scabs will start at zero and be ineffective at best.

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Response to byeya (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:25 PM

45. +1

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Response to byeya (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 02:05 PM

70. True. And you thought the replacement refs screwed up the NFL bad enough.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:00 PM

7. Police seen as part of the problem, not solution:

 

"Though the city is solidly Democratic, the plan to put the Police Department out of business has not prompted the wide public outcry seen in the union battles in Chicago, Ohio or Wisconsin, in part because many residents have come to resent a police force they see as incompetent, corrupt and doing little to make their streets safe."

"Officials say that simply adding officers will not make all the difference, given the deep suspicion many residents harbor toward the police. As the chief and his deputy drove through the Whitman Park neighborhood this month, people sitting on their stoops stood up to shake their fists and shout obscenities at them. When police officers arrested a person suspected of dealing drugs in a house on a narrow street in North Camden last year, residents set upon their cars and freed the prisoner."

Occupy Camden. Free drugs for all addicts.

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Response to tama (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:15 AM

59. Free drugs for all addicts?

Yeah, and free burials for the Overdoses, right?

I can understand why people can distrust the cops, but leaving the city open to ever Mafia, Crip, or (insert gang here) is NOT the solution.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #59)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:53 AM

62. Yep

 

That's what they do in many places, Switzerland, Holland, Germany, Portugal. The results are very good, addicts get clean stuff instead of street poisons, they don't have to do petty crime and/or sell drugs and get more customers to buy drugs, they don't have to be afraid of going to doctor but get health care as part of the program. And there is no black market demand for drug supply from Mafia, Crip, or (insert gang here).

Practical common sense. Something that drug war idiotism has huge problem with.

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Response to tama (Reply #62)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:01 PM

67. It is one thing to legalize drugs

Another to actively make them. I could even see giving addicts needles, to slow down the spread of disease to others that have no way of knowing their lover is doing smack, but to enourage something that will kill them and make their lives lesslivable is not heloing the issue.

Free treatment yes, free needles even, yes, but no free smack or coke.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #67)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 01:00 AM

68. smack

 

The results of the Swiss heroin program are very good (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2009/s2776476.htm). It's for addicts to whom no other treatment program works. Besides addiction, long term use of opiates gives only constipation - nothing compared to tobacco and alcohol. What is killing addicts and making their lives less livable is the consequenses of criminalization - impure drug etc. etc.

Coke and meth is another story, granted.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:00 PM

8. OWS

Needs to make sure the NYPD learns of this- once the 1% are done with the NYPD they will do the same to them.

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Response to MysticLynx (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:18 PM

34. Bet the NYPD already knows it. They got $4.6 million from JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, etc:

The NYPD, now sponsored by Wall Street

As it turns out, JPMorgan is not the only financial institution that has been generous to the police foundation. In the 2009-10 year, Goldman Sachs, Barclays Capital, investment bank Jeffries and Co., investor Carl Icahn, and investment firm The Renco Group each gave over $100,000 to the foundation, putting them in the top-tier of donors, according to the foundation’s website. Bank of America also gave over $75,000 that year. (Another $100,000+ donor was Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp.)

Keep in mind that’s just a single year’s worth of donations. As a private non-profit, the New York City Police Foundation does not have to release detailed donor information, so we don’t know of the the full scope of Wall Street money flowing into the NYPD.

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/07/the_nypd_now_sponsored_by_wall_street/

Privatization leads to FDR's definition of fascism:

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.” ~ Franklin D. Roosevelt


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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:08 PM

9. Fools. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:18 PM

10. I don't know NJ law, or for that matter how it relates with unions...

... but isn't what Camden, NJ doing essentially contracting out their police force to a sub-contractor? And if there are displaced law enforcement officers, aren't they entitled to keep their job with the new contractor, same pay & benefits and such? I may still be stuck in England with my knowledge of local government but over there if the local authority (link city hall, county commissioners) contracts out one of their core responsibilities to another company, the incumbent employees *must* be offered jobs with the new contractor at the same pay and equivalent benefits.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:26 PM

11. We should broadcast this low and high...to anyone you know who is in law enforcement

 

The union busters will shut even you down

Work together, or die alone

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Response to Taverner (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:40 PM

15. Oh in this case some of the onus might be with the police themselves.

"every day, nearly 30 percent of the force does not show up. (A typical rate elsewhere is in the single digits.)"

Assuming for the moment that that number is correct then you tell me, have you ever heard of a company being able to stay in business where 30% of the employees call in sick daily?

I'm not saying its a good idea that they are breaking up the union to do this just that the police arent innocent little lambs and do appear to share in causing it to happen.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:52 PM

19. You are correct - however, it also shows that the police are no longer the "protected" union

 

they once were

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Response to Taverner (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:57 PM

42. But there again by not showing up to do the job

they in essence did it to themselves.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:29 PM

12. A lot of the blame for public pension failures can be placed on the federal reserve.

 

When a pension plan uses an anticipated return of 8% on assets and the federal reserve sets interest rates at zero for years on end the pension plan is in trouble. All this crap has been done to save the TBTF banks from their bad business decisions.

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Response to Cronkite (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:44 PM

17. The Fed is engaging in interest rate suppression and pension funds; private citizens - a high %

 

of them retirees; and university endowments are all suffering because of it.

The Republicans refuse to allow a much needed public works program and Obama is unable to break the stranglehold so we are left with a Republican - Bernacke - to use what is available to the Fed.

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Response to byeya (Reply #17)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:23 PM

23. Bernanke is doing what he can and has pleaded

with congress to do something and they have not. He wants fiscal stimulus to work with his monetary stimulus.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:33 PM

13. Blame the unions as usual

They also got rid of their fire department a year or so ago.


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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:37 PM

14. Ah yes. Hire poorly paid cops who will supplement their wages with bribes and extortion.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:43 PM

16. I would lay odds on that.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:45 PM

18. Poorly paid?

"Officials say they anticipate salaries for the new force will range from $47,000 to $87,000."
Thats a hell of alot more cash than my brother who has worked full time as an assistant produce manager for the past 25+ years makes and hes lifting and moving heavy boxes nearly every day at work all day.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #18)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:54 PM

20. You should hope your brother is some day paid what the cops are

Not that the cops are paid less.

This is what they want you to feel and say. They want to divide labor using these tactics, and sow contempt for public employees.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:01 PM

27. This X1000

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:35 PM

36. Cops are special case

 

In this case they are not perceived as part of the community but enemy of the community.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:49 PM

38. Oh I do and I also hope to hit the lottery but the odds of either happening are

slim I fear, well ok the odds of the lottery are alot slimmer but not by to much.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:55 PM

21. Police corruption, bribery, etc. are likely results

Poorly paid cops are an invitation to corruption and disrespect foe the law. This ia common knowledge in poor countries.

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Response to daleo (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:25 PM

26. If you read the whole article

 

the community has no respect even for the current unionized police but perceive them as corrupt thugs who persecute people because of drug war. So that is not a very strong argument.

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Response to tama (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:17 PM

33. That may be, but making low wages would almost certainly make things worse

Poorly paid cops would add small time shakedowns to other forms of corruption.

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Response to daleo (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:33 PM

35. Yes, not a step towards better direction

 

but just the usual attempt to fix the problem by making it worse and creating additional problems.

What are the root causes of the problem and is there a way to stop causing the problem? Article clearly points out drug war as if not the only, certainly one of the main causes of the problem. So, just stop criminalizing drugs or if not possible, enforcing the law that creates organized crime = no police better than corrupt police making the situation just worse and save tax payer money for something that might actually help. Like healthcare, food, homes for homeless and free drugs for addicts so the the market demand for drug gangs goes away.

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Response to tama (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:45 PM

37. I agree that the drug war causes more problems than it solves

I also agree with you about improving the social safety net as being a more cost effective and efficient way to solve problems than an excessive emphasis on law and order (i.e. cops and jails).

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Response to daleo (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:00 PM

43. So, any better ideas

 

to work towards those goals than just voting Democrats?

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Response to tama (Reply #43)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:03 AM

47. It's a hard question

Political parties aren't all that responsive to social change, even when they talk a good game. We seem to be in a period where all parties are cozying up to corporate interests and that thwarts progress, to a considerable extent. I guess it's important not to give up, recognize change will come from below, and keep the discussion going.

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Response to daleo (Reply #47)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:16 AM

49. Hmm

 

On global level the idea of open "from below" processes of drafting new constitutions might be the new "mainstream" revolutionary idea. Iceland did it, Spanish people are demanding it, and anyone can call a General Assembly to discuss the idea. It would be dream come true for many net activists...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:44 PM

24. Underpaid cops in the most dangerous city in the US.

What could possibly go wrong?

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Response to lunatica (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:56 PM

40. Underpaid?

 

Not according to the article:
Camden’s budget was $167 million last year, and of that, the budget for the police was $55 million. Yet the city collected only $21 million in property taxes. It has relied on state aid to make up the difference, but the state is turning off the spigot. The city has imposed furloughs, reduced salaries and trash collection, and increased fees. But the businesses the city desperately needs to attract to generate more revenue are scared off by the crime.

“We cannot move the city forward unless we address public safety,” the mayor, Dana L. Redd, said. “This is about putting boots on the ground.”

Even union officials acknowledge that the contract is rich with expensive provisions. For example, officers earn an additional 4 percent for working a day shift, and an additional 10 percent for the shift starting at 9:30 p.m. They earn an additional 11 percent for working on a special tactical force or an anticrime patrol.

Salaries range from about $47,000 to $81,000 now, not including the shift differentials or additional longevity payments of 3 percent to 11 percent for any officer who has worked five years or more. Officials say they anticipate salaries for the new force will range from $47,000 to $87,000.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #40)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:41 AM

50. What wage do you think they should make?

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Response to neverforget (Reply #50)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:02 PM

65. I really have no idea, I haven't made a study of police pay scales.

 

But it seems pretty comparable to my military pay scale, albeit perhaps a larger starting salary.

I don't get overtime, or a shift incentive pay.

And I certainly don't get to have a union, so I'm rather ambiguous on that subject.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:04 PM

28. 400 Mall Cops

Sure. That's what they need.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:22 PM

30. Substitute refs in the NFL and substitute police in NJ - talk about a bad play book.

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Response to Tigress DEM (Reply #30)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:58 AM

56. yup.

We've already seen how this works out. Except, this time, they will have guns.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:50 PM

32. Makes me wonder if Detroit is next.

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Response to sarcasmo (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:53 PM

39. I hope you mean that in a concerned way

it would be so disappointing if you were making a snide comment about my hometown at a sad time like this. Sad for Camden, sad for all of us.

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Response to sarcasmo (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:57 PM

41. I hope that new company, Omni Consumer Products, can fix things in Detroit.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #41)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:52 PM

46. Thanks, I hope so too but

I'm not trying to steal the subject away from Camden; I feel bad for them right now. Your good wishes do you credit.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:11 AM

48. here's hoping the nonunion officers are better than the nonunion NFL refs

good luck with that

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:44 AM

51. They'll get what they pay for

which is a bunch of green cops with no old timers around to guide them in dealing with the crap cops see every day and in how to keep a lid on their own behavior.

I wouldn't want to live in such a place.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:56 AM

52. Most dangerous city in America, just got more dangerous.

I am not even sure if this is an issue of money. By going non union it seems to me they will have officers working that have less pride in their work. Not that the current situation is good, it isn't not even by a long shot however I would lay odds that at least some of the current officers have pride in their jobs, the non union police, not so much.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:03 AM

53. How necessary is Police Department?

 

Where I live there have been lot's of "rationalizations" of Police Departments, which means that especially some small rural communities are very seldom visited by police officers.

For example there is a small island community of few hundred people which I know relatively well, and the locals tell me that when a police unit is coming, ferry informs and warns some locals and grapevine informs rest, so everyone knows e.g. to drive "orderly" to avoid trouble with police. I heard there was once a thief visiting the island, but locals did not bother to call police but just put the guy on ferry and made clear that it would be very bad idea to return. So it would seem that at least small tight communities where everybody knows everybody else don't much need police and don't want police outsiders bothering them.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:29 AM

54. My experience with Camden cops is that they are a loutish, thuggish bunch.

And I'm a middle-aged white guy.

Camden is a deindustrialization disaster area. What it needs is jobs.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #54)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 08:13 AM

57. True but like the article points out without a safer environment getting companies to

Last edited Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

come in and invest in the area is difficult so they have to start somewhere.
Does it suck that its breaking a union? Sure but the members of the union shoulder alot of that blame themselves when you consider that they are having almost 30% of the force not showing up for work each day.

Edit: And to put it into perspective lets they have 200 officers scheduled to work during the day and 30% of them dont show up, thats a total of 60 less police officers which means only 140 are doing jobs meant to be done by 200. I dont know about you but to me its like those 60 are giving a big middle finger both to their fellow officers and to the tax payers.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #54)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:26 AM

64. Only jobs coming are rent-a-cop jobs. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 08:44 AM

58. Camden has been in severe

decline for as long as I can remember. I grew up 30 miles away. There is no longer any industry or jobs to speak of. The police have a tradition of corruption. The residents are extremely poor, the city has little tax revenue. Camden is a depressing sight.

Back in the 1960's the city/county tore down rotting buildings and built block after block of new low income rental housing. Within months, a drive through of those apartments showed that the residents were not taking care of their homes, yards full of garbage - nasty place. I imagine they deteriorated so badly that they have probably since been abandoned or torn down (just a guess).

The city is a complete drain on the surrounding county and the state, also, I'm sure. I hate to say it, but most of Camden should be razed to the ground, especially the building shells that stand abandoned and destroyed. They need factories and businesses, but who would want to build a factory or business in such a place?

The two gruesome murders of children mentioned above - I remember a gruesome murder of a 2-year-old many years ago. Died from suffocation when a parent forced the contents of a dirty diaper into the child's face and plugged his nose and mouth with feces. Lovely things take place in that town.

The cops in that town haven't been very effective in many, many years. I'm all for unions, but in this case, something really needs to be done. They need an entirely new city.

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Response to FlaGranny (Reply #58)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:13 AM

63. Occupy Camden

 

Start with guerilla gardening to build community gardens. Seriously.

PS: googled "Camden community garden" - lot's of links to Camden Australia, but also this:
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20120917/NEWS01/309170018/Community-gardens-help-change-Camden

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Response to tama (Reply #63)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:44 PM

66. I think something like that is the only real answer.

The organs of the state (New Jersey, the US) have done nothing to help. Rather, US macroeconomic policies have turned the place into a sacrifice zone.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #66)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 02:08 PM

71. I know you mean well...

but "nothing to help?" Did you make this up on the fly or do you know something the whole rest of the east coast doesn't? There is this thing call reality, even in Democratic cities. And exactly which location in Camden would you propose we occupy for maximum publicity and effect? Are you thinking The Big J? Sounds like fun! Meet you on the poop deck.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:44 AM

61. Wonderful, now they will be spared police brutality



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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 08:39 AM

69. This is unsettling.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 02:42 PM

72. If you liked scab referees, you'll love scab cops!

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