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Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:43 AM

That Loaded Gun in My Carry-On? Oh, I Forgot

Source: New York Times



In fact, the T.S.A. says the number of guns found at airport security checkpoints has been steadily rising for the last couple of years. Through Friday, 1,105 guns have been found this year, a pace that is higher than last year’s. In 2011, the total was 1,320, up from 1,123 in 2010, the agency says.

Security experts attribute the increase to two factors: a rise in gun sales and the sharp growth of so-called right-to-carry laws across the country that significantly relax regulations on carrying guns in many areas of public life, from colleges to hospitals.

Invariably, according to the T.S.A., travelers at airports with guns in their carry-on bags say they simply forgot they had them. “It’s almost always inadvertent rather than intentional,” said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the agency

Like other professionals in security, law enforcement and firearms safety, Mr. Castelveter was baffled by how anyone could forget that they were carrying a gun. “I’m a Vietnam vet, and when I went through training I was taught that my gun was my best friend — and God forbid you should ever lose sight of that fact. I would never, ever not know that I have a gun in my bag.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/business/tsa-is-finding-more-guns-at-airport-security-checkpoints.html



Because they are largely dickless idiots who don't understand what a gun is and are a threat to society.

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Reply That Loaded Gun in My Carry-On? Oh, I Forgot (Original post)
onehandle Sep 2012 OP
ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #1
psychopomp Sep 2012 #7
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #24
Mojorabbit Sep 2012 #86
FailureToCommunicate Sep 2012 #2
slackmaster Sep 2012 #3
HankyDub Sep 2012 #19
AlbertCat Sep 2012 #21
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #22
pscot Sep 2012 #41
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #92
pscot Sep 2012 #107
Scootaloo Sep 2012 #127
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #129
Scootaloo Sep 2012 #131
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #133
Scootaloo Sep 2012 #134
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #135
Scootaloo Sep 2012 #137
oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #73
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #97
oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #111
jtuck004 Sep 2012 #29
Lightbulb_on Sep 2012 #30
HankyDub Sep 2012 #66
Lightbulb_on Sep 2012 #88
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #100
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #120
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #26
slackmaster Sep 2012 #36
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #38
slackmaster Sep 2012 #40
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #46
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #52
RC Sep 2012 #55
PavePusher Sep 2012 #56
RC Sep 2012 #60
PavePusher Sep 2012 #63
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #65
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #67
DanTex Sep 2012 #69
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #75
DanTex Sep 2012 #77
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #84
DanTex Sep 2012 #85
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #87
hack89 Sep 2012 #110
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #115
hack89 Sep 2012 #117
hack89 Sep 2012 #118
slackmaster Sep 2012 #57
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #121
fightthegoodfightnow Sep 2012 #28
Arctic Dave Sep 2012 #32
fightthegoodfightnow Sep 2012 #35
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #33
slackmaster Sep 2012 #37
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #109
Hoyt Sep 2012 #42
slackmaster Sep 2012 #43
Hoyt Sep 2012 #48
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #53
Hoyt Sep 2012 #64
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #71
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #102
Paladin Sep 2012 #50
slackmaster Sep 2012 #58
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #124
Swede Atlanta Sep 2012 #112
slackmaster Sep 2012 #114
denverbill Sep 2012 #4
slampoet Sep 2012 #11
cosmicone Sep 2012 #13
Viva_La_Revolution Sep 2012 #14
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #15
petronius Sep 2012 #47
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #74
oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #76
petronius Sep 2012 #89
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #103
SemperEadem Sep 2012 #18
AlbertCat Sep 2012 #23
kestrel91316 Sep 2012 #34
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #39
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #54
PavePusher Sep 2012 #59
valerief Sep 2012 #62
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #98
petronius Sep 2012 #113
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #122
PatrynXX Sep 2012 #5
Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #6
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #8
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #99
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #101
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #104
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #106
drm604 Sep 2012 #9
Monk06 Sep 2012 #10
aikoaiko Sep 2012 #12
Hoyt Sep 2012 #45
aikoaiko Sep 2012 #83
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #119
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #125
Hoyt Sep 2012 #126
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #128
Hoyt Sep 2012 #130
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #132
Hoyt Sep 2012 #136
DanTex Sep 2012 #72
aikoaiko Sep 2012 #82
MADem Sep 2012 #16
SemperEadem Sep 2012 #17
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #20
ronnie624 Sep 2012 #25
fightthegoodfightnow Sep 2012 #27
lunatica Sep 2012 #31
pscot Sep 2012 #44
uppityperson Sep 2012 #49
Gormy Cuss Sep 2012 #51
valerief Sep 2012 #61
JoeyT Sep 2012 #68
oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #70
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #78
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #105
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #79
nichomachus Sep 2012 #80
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #93
Skittles Sep 2012 #81
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #94
Skittles Sep 2012 #123
Incitatus Sep 2012 #90
Bocks Car Sep 2012 #95
Incitatus Sep 2012 #108
TheFarseer Sep 2012 #91
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #96
Jim Lane Sep 2012 #116
ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #138

Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:49 AM

1. Peace to all beings,

Last edited Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:41 AM - Edit history (1)

weather they cary a gun or not.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:39 AM

7. Oh, shut up

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:37 AM

24. At least spell whether right.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 03:10 PM

86. I believe that is the correct spelling in the Zombie language. nt

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:04 AM

2. “It’s almost always inadvertent rather than intentional” Yeah, right.

Not a fan of the TSA, but they were able to catch weapons like these before the TSA. Those thousands of flights are safer because of plain old airport security.

We don't need the windows opened because of gunfire at 35,000feet!:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:05 AM

3. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

 

Every high school graduate should understand the importance of keeping deadly weapons secured, and always being mindful of where they are.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:00 AM

19. what we really need to teach in public schools

 

is that solving problems with guns is always wrong.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:13 AM

21. solving problems with guns is always wrong.

We could start by pointing out a gun is not a kitchen gadget.... or the like.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:14 AM

22. By which logic the police should be disarmed...yes?

 


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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:26 AM

41. That would be a start

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Response to pscot (Reply #41)


Response to Bocks Car (Reply #92)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:57 PM

107. Surprisingly, that has never happened to me

or to anyone I've ever known. No. I take that back. I knew a guy who the cops kicked down his door. They, of course, were heavily armed. You must live in a really rough neighborhood.

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Response to pscot (Reply #107)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:34 PM

127. Yes, all the gun nuts live in "thug" central.

it's a standing refrain.

And once you realize that a "thug" is a dog whistle...

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #127)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:38 PM

129. Gay bashing is not limited to thug central

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #129)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:48 PM

131. Please read the hidden post above.

And then go back to constantly pretending you have no fucking clue what anyone is talking about when they mention the standard tropes and propaganda of the Gun Nuts.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #131)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:11 PM

133. I teach firearms on the weekends, mostly to GLBTs and women

People who have often had violence directed at them or their loved ones. Its not talking points or propaganda for them. They are pretty clued in too.

I read the standard memes here...NRA talking points, gun nuts, etc. It pales when you read of TGs shot down, gays/lesbians harassed and attacked, home invasions or rapes where the woman lacked the capability to resist. Those are the reasons I teach...real people with real incidents of violence.

Those who want fewer guns, particularly self defense weapons, in society need to solve the violence problems. Then those at risk will voluntarily disarm. Carrying a gun is a hassle that most would dispense with if they thought it unneeded.



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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #133)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:18 PM

134. But it is propaganda for the overwhelming majority of people who spew it.

It's very unfortunate when such incidents really happen. No one's arguing otherwise.

But then we have people like "Bocks Car" exploiting and sensationalizing those crimes, turning htem into talking points and trying to create the image that absolutely everyone everywhere is in constant danger of having their home invaded and daughters raped by "thugs."

If you want to ignore the dog whistling, you go right ahead. Looks like at least six DU jurists are more aware of the reality than you are, though.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #134)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:25 PM

135. And I would have voted to hide it too.

and I won't paint those who support CCW with as broad a brush as you do.

There are more than enough ideologues on both sides. I have no problem with those who choose to arm themselves and those who don't, as long as it is a reasoned risk analysis and not ideological crap.




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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #135)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:33 PM

137. When did we start talking about CCW?

Oh right. We didn't. Thanks for proving another gun nut trope though

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:58 PM

73. And you know what

Last edited Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

I saw a British policeman (in Cambridge, specifically), take down a thief with his stick from half a block (small block, this is England). You don't need a gun all the time.

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Response to oldsarge54 (Reply #73)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:18 PM

97. "A British"? What exactly is that? And what's a 'theif'?

 


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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #97)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:47 PM

111. happy now?

I did see it happen, twice. Once in person, once on the news that evening.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:44 AM

29. That's a bad philosophy if your opponent doesn't agree.

Gun safety is much better and more useful.

Though we should have ongoing conversations about power...

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:49 AM

30. Except when it's not...

 

Superlatives in any statement are usually wrong...

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Response to Lightbulb_on (Reply #30)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:40 PM

66. Yup, we should teach kids to shoot their way out of every situation!

 

Dumbass gun nuts.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #66)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 03:19 PM

88. See? Superlative...

 

Not all.. likely not most...

There are some situations however, that could potentially call for deadly force or the use of a firearm.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #66)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:30 PM

100. Dumbass gun banners.

 

Sauce for the goose, etc.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #19)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 11:27 AM

120. So . . just call the cops and let them solve it with their . . . er . . . whistles? nt

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:39 AM

26. Yes well the problem is that deregulation

is doing exactly the opposite, it is putting more guns, and more lethal guns, in the hands of idiots who carry everywhere.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:05 AM

36. What deregulation?

 

...it is putting more guns, and more lethal guns, in the hands of idiots who carry everywhere.

How do you explain FALLING crime rates?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:14 AM

38. changes in the the crime rate are not explained by guns.

neither side can claim the crime rate as evidence for their position. You know that.

By deregulation I mean the relaxation of concealed carry regulations. I thought that was obvious.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #38)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:19 AM

40. So, if you can't make a connection between guns and crime rates...

 

...what's the problem?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #40)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:39 AM

46. oh there are problems with guns

Last edited Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)

that gun proliferation does not correlate with the crime rate is a fact, but I never claimed that it did or that this is the problem. Note also that your argument works against your position the same way: if the proliferation of guns does not make us safer, why support SYG, deregulation of concealed carry laws etc.?


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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:18 PM

52. Your "deregulation" hasn't resulted in more crime.

 

In fact, there has been a reduction in crime.

Where is your evidence that "the proliferation of guns does not make us safer"?

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:41 PM

55. The crime rate has more to do with the economy than with anything else.

 

Worsening economy, crime goes up. Good economy, crime goes down.

Paranoia through scare mongering, gun ownership goes up. That is what we are seeing now.
Anything else is diddling with the symptoms for personal reasons.

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Response to RC (Reply #55)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:46 PM

56. Got stats for that?

 

Because the ones I've seen don't agree with your assertion.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #56)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:02 PM

60. Start with this.

 

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/GIVAS_Final_Report.pdf

Goggling crime and economy or some such, brings up lots more.
It only stands to reason that people need to do what they need do to survive and in a bad economy crime may be the last resort.

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Response to RC (Reply #60)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:16 PM

63. If there's a correlation, it's very weak, and not well demonstrated to be linked to economy.

 

And, interestingly, no U.S. data is presented. I am guessing that's because we didn't fit the trend they wanted to show....

It only stands to reason....


Corporal Carrot, is that you?

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Response to RC (Reply #55)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:29 PM

65. I don't disagree, but that wasn't the question.

 

Where is the evidence that we're less safe with laws that allow things like CCW?

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:45 PM

67. I never claimed it did. It also hasn't decreased crime.

Where is the evidence that proliferation of guns makes us safer?

My only claim regarding crime rates in this thread is that they are not correlated to gun proliferation.

Guns are a public health issue. 30,000 deaths annually.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #67)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:48 PM

69. Actually, homicide rates are correlated to gun availability.

The statistical evidence shows that overall crime rates are not highly associated with guns, either way. But, more guns have the effect of making crime more lethal, since gun crimes are much more likely to end up in death.

This is why the overall violent crime rates in the US are comparable to those of Canada, Western Europe, Australia, etc., but our homicide rate is around 5X higher.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #67)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:59 PM

75. It also hasn't demonstrably increased crime, yet you say it's bad.

 

If your only claim is that crime rates are not correlated to gun proliferation, why is this gun "proliferation" a bad thing?


Also, by your measure, CARS are an even bigger "public health issue" than guns.

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #75)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:08 PM

77. It causes more deaths, not more crime.

Cars kill slightly more people than guns, and yes, car accidents are a very serious public health issue. There are major differences, of course. One of them is that cars are highly regulated in ways that guns are not, and a lot of this is the result of public health research into how cars and roads can be made more safe.

But another major difference is that cars are essential part of life. Without cars, the country would immediately grind to a halt and society would collapse. Without guns, not much would change, except of course for a great reduction in death and injury.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #77)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:41 PM

84. Lifestyle choices cause even more deaths.

 

They're not regulated by law and they're a serious public health issue.

Society would not grind to a halt if we legislated healthy lifestyle choices. Is the potential gain worth the benefit at the loss of freedoms?

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #84)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:55 PM

85. Some of them are already regulated.

The thing with guns is that a lot of the victims are innocent people. Not so with most lifestyle choices.

But, in areas where the threat extends to other people besides those making the choice, there is much stricter regulation. Drunk driving, for example.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #85)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 03:12 PM

87. Guns are heavily regulated.

 

They must meet certain federally-regulated specifications. Only certain people with certain licenses who pay for certain tax stamps are allowed to own certain guns. Purchases from gun dealers require a federal background check. There are additional legal penalties for many crimes if they involve the use of a gun.

How are lifestyle choices regulated in any even close to the manner in which firearms are regulated?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #67)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:59 PM

110. We have cut deaths due to murder and manslaughter in half since 1992

so it is clear that more guns have not made America more dangerous.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #110)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:25 AM

115. Rates of gun ownership are

Not correlated with crime rates. Any claim that they are is suspect, for either side of the debate.

What is factual is that there are 30,000 deaths annually from firearms. That is a public health issue.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #115)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:11 AM

117. Cutting the mortality rate of any public health problem in half would be considered a success.

or do you have different standards for guns?

Half of that number is due to suicides so it is more accurate to call it a mental health issue. Why not implement single payer health care with good mental health care? If it is a health issue then lets fix it with health care.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #115)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:13 AM

118. But it is a fact there there are fewer shootings, injuries and death.

And it is a fact that there will be even fewer next year and the year after for the foreseeable future.

And it is also a fact that there are more guns.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:49 PM

57. IMO you have structured the question exactly backward

 

I believe that freedom of choice is inherently good. If you can't provide an affirmative reason to prohibit people from owning, saying, or doing something, then creating arbitrary restrictions is inherently wrong.

Note also that your argument works against your position the same way: if the proliferation of guns does not make us safer, why support SYG, deregulation of concealed carry laws etc.?

IMO the burden is on someone who opposes these things to explain why they shouldn't be allowed.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #26)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 11:28 AM

121. And crime rates are spiking because of this

 

well spiking downward.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:43 AM

28. Common Sense?

If someone doesn't have the common sense to not bring an undeclared loaded gun in a carry on bag through an airport security checkpoint, they should not even be in high school.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:55 AM

32. I would say, spend the money on mental health screening before buying

 

each firearm and a two week waiting period on every firearm sold. And, no personal firearm sales without a mediator to track the weapon.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:02 AM

35. EXACTLY

.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:56 AM

33. Great. Another unfunded mandate on the schools. No thank you!

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:05 AM

37. If it saves just one life...

 

...It's worth doing.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:55 PM

109. Again. another unfunded mandate levied on the schools. No thank you.

My history class will solely deal with history/government and economics, not how to safely use a glock.

Let the parents have some responsibility. They want to give their kids a gun, let them teach the little bastard how to use it.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:26 AM

42. Who will teach gun safety? - Some gun proliferating NRA (out to beat Obama) sanctioned instructor?

I'd agree if half the course is presented by those who see the proliferation of more and more guns, in more places, does not bode well for our society.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:31 AM

43. Local law enforcement agencies, shooting ranges, gun clubs, colleges, retired military people

 

There are plenty of qualified people available in any community.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #43)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:59 AM

48. I think we'd be better off if people steeped in guns were not involved.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:21 PM

53. I think we'd want people who were falimiar with guns teaching the class.

 

"steeped in"? That's a little harsh.

I'm just curious...who would you consider proficient enough to teach an effective gun safety class yet not "steeped in guns"?

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #53)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:27 PM

64. "Familiar" or wedded to them to point they tote everywhere and

accumulate guns designed and marketed to appeal to gun cultist's baser instincts? There is a big difference.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #64)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:55 PM

71. Can you explain your definition of "gun cultist"?

 

I have friends who are more into guns than I am. They love the precision, the workmanship. They appreciate all of the little nuances of how a firearm works. They buy new stocks at gun shows to replace the ones they already have because the grain in the wood is more attractive. They have libraries of the history of weapons and warfare, they have collector-grade historical items from WW1 and WW2, they have individual rounds of ammunition in odd calibers simply because that round hasn't been made in 100 years.

They also own 20, 30, 40 guns.

Are they "gun cultists?


I'm not a competitive shooter, but I also have friends who competitively shoot. For them, shooting is a sport (compare it to archery). They are meticulous about the mechanics of firearms and how to improve a firearm's performance. They shoot hundreds of rounds per practice session and they regularly stock thousands of rounds because they stock up when they find deals.

They own a dozen or so guns.

Are they "gun cultists"?


I'm not a hunter, but I have friends who hunt. For most of them, it's a family tradition that's passed down from generation to generation. All of the hunters I know use the meat. None of them take an iffy shot because they don't want the animal to suffer. I know one hunter who got off of work at 5:00pm, sat in the woods for seven hours, shot a deer, dressed it and then drove the carcass to a butcher the next morning on the way to work for the sole purpose of donating the meat to a homeless shelter.

They typically own 3-10 guns.

Are they "gun cultists"?


I'm an air traffic controller. I'm not a historian, I'm not a competitive shooter, I don't hunt. I enjoy some target shooting and primarily own guns for home defense. I don't have a CCW, but have considered getting one.

I own three guns.

Am I a "gun cultist"?


All of us are rabid about gun safety. All of us have used guns regularly and are very familiar with what a gun can do.


So, are any of us qualified to teach kids about gun safety, or are we all "gun cultists"?


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Response to Hoyt (Reply #64)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:34 PM

102. I see your problem, you're worried that same-sex marriage will lead to man-gun wedlock.

 

Are you Rick Santorum?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #43)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:04 PM

50. Who Would Pay For It?


Most school systems and parents are already strapped for cash. Any potential instructors volunteering to do the job for free would probably show up with pro-gun agendas on their sleeves. Oh, and I love your "Even if it saves just one life" sales pitch; how receptive are you to that argument when gun control advocates use it?

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Response to Paladin (Reply #50)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:51 PM

58. Everyone who pays property tax, just as they pay for sex education

 

Including people who have no children, and parents who opt their own children out of sex education.

Oh, and I love your "Even if it saves just one life" sales pitch; how receptive are you to that argument when gun control advocates use it?

I think it's a great argument, and I've often cited it as a reason that all children should have access to publicly funded swimming lessons. I only oppose that reasoning when there is no rational reason to believe that something actually would save one or more lives.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #42)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:19 PM

124. Curriculum can be set up to be neutral

But both sides would probably have deep differences on what neutral would mean. The goal is to stop accidental shootings, so some basics on firearms handling would be required, something the "neutral VPC or Brady Bunch cannot do.





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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:51 PM

112. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic is what needs to be taught in schools....

 

I encounter high school graduates all the time that can hardly speak a complete sentence, write anything other then LOL, BFF, etc. and have to have a calculator to decide if they have $1.00 and want to purchase a pack of gum that costs $.35 and a gumball that costs $.55 if they have enough money.

We have, in many cases, not all, dumbed down our students to the point they are incapable of competing in the 21st century.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #112)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:57 AM

114. If schools have the bandwidth to spend multiple days on sex and drug education,

 

...they can afford an hour or two dealing with firearm safety.

Kids respond well to breaks from their school routine. I believe most of them would find it enjoyable and entertaining, and they might learn something that could prevent needless injuries or deaths.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:36 AM

4. Charge them with a felony, revoke their right to carry guns, period.

If you are too stupid to remember you are carrying a gun, you can't be trusted to own one.

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:13 AM

11. +1

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:22 AM

13. + 1,000,000 n/t

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:26 AM

14. +10000000 nt

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:33 AM

15. That sounds reasonable. Anyone here disagree?

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:53 AM

47. I'll disagree. People do make all sorts of mistakes, some of them fairly

stupid errors. In the absence of criminal intent or a harmful outcome, it would be improper to apply severe legal penalties to an innocuous screw-up. I'll assert that as a general principle, by the way, not something specific to firearms...

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Response to petronius (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:58 PM

74. 1,105 gun-toting idiots have tested the system so far this year.

That's all we need to know in this case.

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Response to petronius (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:01 PM

76. Stupid Error.

Then they should pay for that stupidity. You know, Darwin and company.
Personally, I would like to see DC vs Heller overturned.

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Response to oldsarge54 (Reply #76)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:56 PM

89. An (in)action or mistake with no criminal intent and no harmful outcome

does not rise to the level of a felony or anywhere close, and does not merit harsh legal penalties. I hold that opinion in general, and apply it equally to any genuine and ultimately harmless error.

As for the people in this specific example, they can 'pay' for the error by forfeiting the item in question or missing the flight, just like everyone who accidentally carries a prohibited item to a TSA checkpoint...

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Response to oldsarge54 (Reply #76)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:35 PM

103. How about Lawrence vs Texas? Does that one offend your anticonstitutional sensibilities too?

 


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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:54 AM

18. +1

exactly.

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:18 AM

23. + &#8734;

"Now...where'd I leave that gun... silly me!"



(BTW "& # 8734; shows up as an infinity sign on my PC, but apparently not in bold.... watch, I'll type it sans spaces: ∞ )

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:58 AM

34. + 5 brazillion

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:18 AM

39. The gun owners treat a gun like a toothbrush

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:24 PM

54. All of your liquids must be in a ziploc bag outside of your carrryon.

 

...and they all must be 3oz or less.

If one forgets to comply with this TSA regulation do you support charging them with a felony and revoking their right to use shampoo?

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:53 PM

59. Why do you want to invent new felonies?

 

Just turn them back, or make them put it in checked luggage. How difficult is that? There is no reason to, literally, make a federal case out of it.

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:10 PM

62. + a googol

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Response to denverbill (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:20 PM

98. What would be, in your opinion, an appropriate punishment for a person who forgets his child

 

in the back seat of the car and leaves the kid there to die in summer heat? This happens frequently and actually results in tragedy unlike a gun in some luggage that did nothing but sit there.

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #98)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:37 PM

113. The better analogy, actually, would be that the kid is noticed and retrieved

unharmed 20 minutes later...

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #98)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 11:29 AM

122. Zero tolerance

 

They should be permanently stripped of their right to procreate.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:37 AM

5. test Mitts window open theory

accidentally goes off on carry on. out the window it goes. (oh I forgot) as you see the plane getting smaller and smaller

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:39 AM

6. Proof that more guns make us safe.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:59 AM

8. Hey, you never know when some nut might have sneaked a gun on board.

Got to be ready for any crisis, right?

Toothbrush - check
iPad - check
Extra underwear - check
Pistol and ammuntion - check

Bunch of jerkwads..............

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:26 PM

99. Are the pilots who (legally) carry guns with them in the cockpit also 'jerkwads'?

 

I'm trying to figure out which people, if any, are exempt from the shitbrush.

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #99)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:33 PM

101. I'm sure you can figure that out, if you try hard enough.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #101)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:36 PM

104. I just did. The shitbrush is VERY wide.

 

I occasionally run into people in person who think like the anti=gun nuts who seem to post here.
I treat them exactly the same way I treat members of KKK.

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #104)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:40 PM

106. ..and you're holding it.

Be careful, hoss.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:04 AM

9. “It’s almost always inadvertent rather than intentional”

While this is probably true, how do they know this? They just take people's word?

Notice they said "almost always". That would seem to indicate that in some small number of cases it's intentional. How do they know which is intentional and which isn't? It seems to me the everyone would claim that it's unintentional, whether it is or not.

Maybe if your skin's a little too dark or you have a funny accent, then it's intentional.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:09 AM

10. How many moslems get to use that excuse?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:18 AM

12. Every gun owner I know agrees that gun owners should follow the law


The TSA should detain these travelers to ensure they are not a real threat. At very least they should be fined if the transgression appears unintentional and jailed/prosecuted if intentional.

Gun owners are responsible their actions.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:33 AM

45. What would really be nice is if gun owners wouldn't push gun laws to the envelope.

For example, just because one has the right to carry a gun into public parks, restaurants, etc. -- why do it?

Or, just because the right wing NRA helps push through right wing "stand your ground" type laws, gun owners wouldn't view it as justification to shoot an unarmed teenager who "scares" them.

Any private citizen who carries a gun into an airport -- intentionally, or "inadvertently" -- should be subject to imprisonment.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #45)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:39 PM

83. I agree that not all civil liberties have to be expressed constantly, but


I don't have a problem with them being in expressed lawfully in public.

If someone breaks the law they should be punished. I agree with that, but I'm sure we disagree on the level of punishment.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #45)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 11:27 AM

119. People are never assaulted in parks?

 

That's news to me.


Or, just because the right wing NRA helps push through right wing "stand your ground" type laws, gun owners wouldn't view it as justification to shoot an unarmed teenager who "scares" them.


Because literally all 150 million gun owners did this. That's why we have no teenagers left.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #45)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:20 PM

125. So some people should not have the right to address the government for changes in the law

Real progressive of you there...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #125)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:31 PM

126. No, professor, I'm saying lots of things are best not done even if legal.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #126)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:35 PM

128. You are free to maintain that position

However the pendulum is certainly swinging against you at this point and rightly so.

Solve the violence problem to reduce the risk and those who carry/own for self defense will not feel the need. Do that and much of your concerns will be addressed.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #128)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:43 PM

130. Act responsibly in society's best interest, rather than your own,

would work better. Besides, folks with overblown fears - and carrying guns in public to allay them -- ain't good for 99+ % of us and, of course, those who profit from guns and accessories.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #130)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:02 PM

132. Self defense is a basic human right and is also in society's best interest

Meet those I teach on the weekends...almost all of them are there due to violence directed at them or a loved one. Their fears are not overblown. Several have moved out of CA since the law prevents them from having what they need to be safe.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #132)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:26 PM

136. We can all come up with a reason to carry lethal weapons around.

And, there are a few.

But to let and promote almost anybody with irrational fears, the callousness to shoot an unarmed teenager, and perhaps a chip on their shoulders, carry just about anywhere, anytime, is not in our best long-term interest. Guns cause a lot of crud that our current policies don't address. We let too many people pollute our society with all things guns, just to appease the few.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:58 PM

72. Except for the ones who don't.

There are also far too many gun fanatics who feel naked or vulnerable without a gun, and think it is their god-given right to carry a gun wherever they want, no matter what the law says. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117275348#post13
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117275348#post18

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Response to DanTex (Reply #72)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:34 PM

82. People not following the law? What are we to do?


Oh yes, we catch them and punish them like everyone else.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:38 AM

16. This thread brings Mrs. Lou Dobbs to mind!

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/2003-01-23-dobbs-gun.htm

01/23/2003 - Updated 12:55 PM ET


Dobbs' wife arrested for having handgun at Newark airport

NEWARK, N.J. (AP) — The wife of CNN "Moneyline" host Lou Dobbs was arrested at Newark Liberty International Airport on Wednesday for having a loaded handgun in her handbag, authorities said.

Debi Dobbs, 49, of Sussex, was arrested at the security checkpoint at Terminal C after the gun was discovered, according to Allen Morrison, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airport.

She was arrested at 3:15 p.m. without incident, Morrison said. Debi Dobbs was charged with criminal possession of a weapon and released on her own recognizance.

...

Debi Dobbs was at the airport to board a flight to Florida, authorities said. Christa Robinson, a CNN spokeswoman, confirmed that Debi Dobbs is the wife of Lou Dobbs, the host of that network's nightly business show "Moneyline." ....

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:53 AM

17. they know they've got a loaded gun in their carry on luggage

they're just playing dumb and hoping the tsa goes along with the routine.

ignorance of the law is no excuse--arrest them and maybe they'll learn to take some ginko biloba to help their "memory loss" the next time they travel.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:13 AM

20. Thanks to Mr. Castelveter & his troops we were able to win that war in Viet Nam.

 



(Who are 'they' in your last sentence?...)

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:37 AM

25. 'They', of course, would be those who attempt to carry handguns onto flights.

What does the comment in your title line mean, exactly?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:39 AM

27. Forgetting?

If these folks don't have the common sense to remember they have a gun prior to going through a security check point, they are certain to lack the common sense to remember they have one when they might actually need one.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:52 AM

31. OK. So you're going on a trip and you pack the essentials

But you forget that you packed your gun along with your change of underwear and your toothbrush. Sure. I can understand how that can happen.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:32 AM

44. You're packing for your flight

You pack you're carry-on bag, putting in a gun. Stop right there. Have you forgotten you're about to go through airport screening? Maybe you're just too stupid to be trusted with anything more dangerous than a pencil.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:59 AM

49. It is understandable. As more people become more fearful and more start carrying, it can become

"just another thing in your pocket or purse" sort of thing. Like many people I know carry leathermans or pocketknives.

It doesn't mean it is in any way ok, but it becomes a common item and people just don't think.

To a poster upthread, sure, take them away from most of the police. That'd help the over use of them. Or have them in cop cars but make them fill out a shitload of paperwork if they ever even draw one on anyone. There are cops in other countries that don't routinely carry and have to figure out ways to work WITH people they encounter and in most cases it works. Of course there are incidents when a gun is needed. Also times when a can opener is needed. But do cops run around with can openers just in case they need one?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:10 PM

51. I'm sure that most say they forgot.

I wonder how often that's the case though. How can you walk up to a security checkpoint at an airport and not remember where you left your LOADED gun? If you're a CC type you'd want to know where that weapon is at all times, else there's no point in carrying it. As to flying, the relatives I have who fly with guns are very careful to understand the regulations because they don't want the TSA to confiscate them.

I smell something else going on here. I wonder if there is an organized effort to test TSA or test the ability to restrict carrying. I know that there has been an effort by small government right wingers to discredit the publicly-run TSA in order to transfer security back to private companies for example.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:09 PM

61. And this, my friends, is how "responsible" gun owners let their guns get into the hands

of kids. They simply get all "absent-minded professor" about the guns.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:48 PM

68. Yeah, I'm sure it's an accident.

Just a big ol' misunderstanding.

If they want people to stop "accidentally" leaving guns in their luggage, they should treat them like they would if it were a Muslim that had done it. That'd put an end to this shit in a hurry. I guaran-goddamned-tee you the people doing this are mostly old white dudes.

The first time they see one of their own treated the way everyone else is treated, they'll scream about tyranny for weeks, but they'll knock that shit off.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:52 PM

70. Proof Positive

That all those militia members are well trained and well regulated. Remember, courtesy of that 5/4 decision in DC vs Heller, the second amendment has NOTHING to do with militias.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:09 PM

78. Being added to a No Fly List might jog their memories.

Screw these idiots. Let them take a bus or taxi next time.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #78)


Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:19 PM

79. Ok, they forgot

Poor dears!

I am sorry, you do not forget you are packing. If you do, you are too much of an idiot to pack!

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:30 PM

80. If you don't know where your gun is, it really doesn't provide much protection

Evildoer: Stick 'em up or I'll blow your fuckin' head off.

You: Give me just a second, please. I know I have a gun here somewhere. Maybe it's in my bag next to my underwear. Hang on. I'll be right with you.

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #80)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:09 PM

93. Or much support for terrorism:

 

Evildoer: "Okay all you airline passengers, you better sit down and shut up because I'm in charge here as I will demonstrate right after I dig through my bag in that there overhead compartment and find my Assault .22 caliber pistol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:32 PM

81. fucking idiots

and they are allowed to carry guns

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Response to Skittles (Reply #81)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:11 PM

94. What should we do about the cops who forget they left their guns on the bureau

 

which were found by their own kids and "accidentally" went off? Ban kids, I suppose.

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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #94)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:07 PM

123. LOL

gun nut logic

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:20 PM

90. Come on people. Who here never forgot about a loaded gun you were carrying before?

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #90)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:12 PM

95. Having a gun in your luggage is hardly 'carrying' it.

 


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Response to Bocks Car (Reply #95)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:07 PM

108. They weren't carrying their luggage?

Maybe I find it silly because I consider myself a more responsible gun owner than that.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:36 PM

91. well

people forget their kid on top of the car in the car seat, so maybe!

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/mother-drives-5-week-old-top-car-164426051--abc-news-topstories.html

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:13 PM

96. "Dickless" good thing you're leveling that kind of insult

 

at a man. Otherwise you'd be banned immediately.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:10 AM

116. Unlike just about everyone else, I find this credible.

For example, it happened to Maurice Hinchey, one of the best Congressmembers, whose retirement this year is a real loss and who is hardly brainless or whatever other insults are being so casually tossed around in this thread.

I think his situation was that he put the gun in his suitcase with some clothes and other things that he thought he might need, then put the suitcase in his car and drove from his home to Washington. As it turned out, he didn't have need of anything in the suitcase, and he didn't even open it. Later, he was flying back to New York. He grabbed that suitcase and brought it to the airport without opening it and without remembering that it had a gun in it.

I've never owned a gun but I can totally see this happening. It's just human nature, folks.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 04:15 PM

138. It seems that it is not really the carry-on bags.

The problem seems to be the every-day/"personal" bags: the purse, the briefcase, the backpack. The contents of these bags have become so common that they are no longer conscious thought for the owner.

The "carry-on" bags are purposely packed with the stuff needed for daily convenience normally left at home when not traveling by air. This seems to be where the guns normally are NOT found.

At least the way I read lots of these news reports.

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