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Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:14 AM

Border Patrol agent kills woman near San Diego as he rides on hood of car that ran into him

Source: Associated Press

Border Patrol agent kills woman near San Diego as he rides on hood of car that ran into him
By Associated Press, Published: September 28 | Updated: Saturday, September 29, 12:46 AM

CHULA VISTA, Calif. — A Border Patrol agent fatally shot a 32-year-old mother of five Friday in suburban San Diego as he rode on the hood of her car after she ran into him, authorities and family members said.

The agent fired after being driven several hundred yards on the hood, Chula Vista police Capt. Gary Wedge told The Associated Press. The woman was later identified in a police statement as Valeria Alvarado.

The shooting occurred about five miles north of the Mexican border as plainclothes agents were looking to serve a felony warrant in the area to someone other than Alvarado, Border Patrol Deputy Chief Rodney Scott told U-T San Diego.

Scott said the agent was stuck atop the car as Alvarado drove.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/border-patrol-agent-kills-woman-near-san-diego-as-he-rides-on-hood-of-car-that-ran-into-him/2012/09/28/2d9f19be-09cd-11e2-9eea-333857f6a7bd_story.html

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Reply Border Patrol agent kills woman near San Diego as he rides on hood of car that ran into him (Original post)
Judi Lynn Sep 2012 OP
graham4anything Sep 2012 #1
trouble.smith Sep 2012 #2
graham4anything Sep 2012 #3
trouble.smith Sep 2012 #4
JoeyT Sep 2012 #5
glacierbay Sep 2012 #9
graham4anything Sep 2012 #10
randome Sep 2012 #13
graham4anything Sep 2012 #16
randome Sep 2012 #21
glacierbay Sep 2012 #17
crim son Oct 2012 #120
WeekendWarrior Oct 2012 #107
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #124
WeekendWarrior Oct 2012 #139
randome Sep 2012 #12
glacierbay Sep 2012 #15
graham4anything Sep 2012 #18
glacierbay Sep 2012 #19
graham4anything Sep 2012 #20
glacierbay Sep 2012 #25
graham4anything Sep 2012 #40
Th1onein Sep 2012 #46
randome Sep 2012 #50
COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #56
glacierbay Sep 2012 #61
COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #92
glacierbay Sep 2012 #62
Th1onein Sep 2012 #82
glacierbay Sep 2012 #83
Th1onein Sep 2012 #88
glacierbay Sep 2012 #89
Th1onein Sep 2012 #91
grantcart Sep 2012 #69
LanternWaste Oct 2012 #102
grantcart Sep 2012 #68
glacierbay Sep 2012 #73
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #94
glacierbay Sep 2012 #95
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #125
randome Oct 2012 #126
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #130
glacierbay Oct 2012 #136
grantcart Oct 2012 #113
glacierbay Oct 2012 #115
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #6
Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #29
snooper2 Sep 2012 #38
graham4anything Sep 2012 #39
Missycim Oct 2012 #99
pennylane100 Sep 2012 #70
jberryhill Sep 2012 #80
alp227 Sep 2012 #87
awoke_in_2003 Sep 2012 #78
Shitty Mitty Sep 2012 #7
SecularMotion Sep 2012 #23
Shitty Mitty Oct 2012 #97
SecularMotion Oct 2012 #98
Beacool Oct 2012 #109
slackmaster Oct 2012 #110
glacierbay Oct 2012 #116
Shitty Mitty Oct 2012 #118
glacierbay Oct 2012 #123
devilgrrl Oct 2012 #122
Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #8
randome Sep 2012 #11
Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #59
randome Sep 2012 #63
Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #65
slackmaster Sep 2012 #24
Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #60
4lbs Sep 2012 #14
Live and Learn Sep 2012 #58
lunasun Sep 2012 #74
slackmaster Sep 2012 #22
kirby Sep 2012 #26
slackmaster Sep 2012 #27
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #31
glacierbay Sep 2012 #32
slackmaster Sep 2012 #33
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #34
glacierbay Sep 2012 #36
TorchTheWitch Sep 2012 #47
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #53
JoeyT Sep 2012 #44
kirby Sep 2012 #52
jberryhill Sep 2012 #81
slackmaster Sep 2012 #90
jberryhill Sep 2012 #93
deathrind Sep 2012 #28
slackmaster Sep 2012 #30
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #35
glacierbay Sep 2012 #37
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #42
graham4anything Sep 2012 #48
glacierbay Sep 2012 #64
PavePusher Sep 2012 #71
valerief Sep 2012 #43
Strelnikov_ Sep 2012 #67
Matariki Sep 2012 #41
valerief Sep 2012 #45
MindPilot Sep 2012 #57
slackmaster Oct 2012 #101
DollarBillHines Sep 2012 #49
Gman Sep 2012 #51
regnaD kciN Sep 2012 #55
Gman Sep 2012 #84
randome Sep 2012 #85
Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #96
warrior1 Sep 2012 #54
glacierbay Sep 2012 #66
pennylane100 Sep 2012 #72
Occulus Sep 2012 #75
pennylane100 Sep 2012 #76
NBachers Sep 2012 #77
Serve The Servants Sep 2012 #79
alp227 Sep 2012 #86
slackmaster Oct 2012 #100
glacierbay Oct 2012 #104
uncle ray Oct 2012 #108
Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #105
slackmaster Oct 2012 #106
grantcart Oct 2012 #112
Sivafae Oct 2012 #119
grantcart Oct 2012 #127
JVS Oct 2012 #103
Beacool Oct 2012 #111
randome Oct 2012 #114
Gormy Cuss Oct 2012 #128
slackmaster Oct 2012 #129
Gormy Cuss Oct 2012 #132
slackmaster Oct 2012 #133
Gormy Cuss Oct 2012 #134
randome Oct 2012 #135
Sivafae Oct 2012 #137
JackRiddler Oct 2012 #117
crim son Oct 2012 #121
PavePusher Oct 2012 #131
crim son Oct 2012 #138

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:23 AM

1. the criminals are the border patrol racists

 

amnesty and instant path to citizenship for all in 2013.
and get rid of the corrupt border patrol.

Rest in peace Miss Alvarado.Sympathies to your family and friends.

as usual guns kill. a corrupt agent kills someone who accidentally ran into him.
again, punishment does not fit the allegation. Judge/Jury/Guns.

and 5 kids have no mother.

my heart weeps.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:34 AM

2. accidentally drove into him for several hundred yards?

 

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Response to trouble.smith (Reply #2)


Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:08 AM

4. yeah, he was in civillian clothes. that changes everything. Send that POS to prison forever.

 

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Response to trouble.smith (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:18 AM

5. It could change a lot.

If he didn't identify himself as a cop, just pulled a gun and ordered her to stop, running him over would be the reasonable course of action for the woman. It would be mighty hard to draw a gun while surfing a hood, so he might have had it out when she hit him. That situation would put him in the wrong rather than her. Of course I have no idea what actually happened, I'm just saying there are ways that this could be his fault, and they're not particularly far fetched.

*shrug* There's not enough information to say one way or the other.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:01 AM

9. Cops are guilty until proven otherwise?

 

Now I've heard everything. What a load of BS.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:08 AM

10. and in your world, the blue wall of silence is just a conspiracy theory not the truth

 

talk about a load of shit

when cops kill and unarmed person, they are guilty til they prove they had a reason to shoot to kill as if they were Rambo

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:13 AM

13. What's more plausible?

That he just decided on the spur of the moment to shoot someone? Or that he was in a very real danger of sliding off the car and getting run over?

If we're going to be in the business of judging a story based on few facts, why not go with the most plausible explanation?

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Response to randome (Reply #13)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:22 AM

16. how does killing a driver stop someone riding outside a car from getting hurt?

 

seems to me someone could be killed being thrown from the outside of a car after killing the driver who then crashes (maybe into a tree or building???)

for the police system to work, one always has to start with their using excessive force, then having the facts conform to that, not vice versa

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:02 AM

21. Stopping the car stops the possibility of him being run over.

'Riding' outside a car? You make it sound like a joy ride. Neither you nor I were there so we don't know every circumstance involved. But from what little we do know, it doesn't sound like an abuse of force.

Just going by what few facts we have and not making any conclusions.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:26 AM

17. You know nothing about my world and please don't pretend that you do.

 

Most cops are good honest cops trying to make their communities a little safer, but you usually only hear about the bad ones because it makes for better news, and the bad ones should be exposed and dealt with, but you're saying that all cops are racist criminals which is a vile comment and you should edit or delete your comment above.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:49 PM

120. The problem is, not only do we hear about (only) the bad ones,

but we therefore know that time and time again, those bad ones get off with a slap on the wrist. Nobody disputes that most cops are good people, but when good people cover up, ignore or defend the crimes of bad people they become less good.

Edited for content

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:26 AM

107. Wow.

I was always under the impression that we had a legal system that considered people innocent until proven guilty. Quite the opposite of what you're saying.

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Response to WeekendWarrior (Reply #107)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:42 AM

124. The dead woman's family might wonder why she was given the death penalty

without any consideration as to her possible innocence. Do you apply that principle to all the people who have been killed by cops who become judge, jury and executioner? A life was lost. Sometimes in a rush to defend law enforcement, lives seem to have little value.

I believe in innocent until proven guilty, not just for cops, but for everyone.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #124)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:31 PM

139. Of course

And until the facts are brought into evidence in a court of law, it's important to presume that EVERYONE was innocent here. You can't simply ASSUME that you know what the truth is—that's the whole point of the notion innocent until PROVEN guilty.

To assume that the cops became judge, jury and executioner when you don't really have the facts in front of you, is wrong. Period.

And if the facts bear this out in court, and a jury finds them guilty, then they should be appropriately punished.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:11 AM

12. Yeah, I know. Why wait for the facts when you can make them up on your own?

Amazing, isn't it?

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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:21 AM

15. What is really vile to me is his first post in this thread.

 

I'm a cop and a good one at that and I have tangled with him before. He has some really strange ideas of what our constitution allows for, like, he feels that criminals should be dealt with by any and all means whether constitutional or not, he believes that Mike Bloomberg is his hero and that his nanny state views are the greatest. He believes that citizens have no right to defend themselves even when being attacked, he even stated that killing a criminal that's attacking someone is bad because that criminal could one day find the cure for cancer or AIDS. I shit you not, this guy/gal is way out there with his views.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:31 AM

18. you have distorted my view(not surprising you would do that)

 

I think Zimmerman is guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt, and unlike what you say, I think
most criminals are only that due to circumstances (like racism) beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I don't much like cops, but told you in the other thread I wouldn't argue that point in that thread.) As long as there is one bad cop, and the good cops don't want to out the bad ones, all are suspect til proven guilty.

and yes, guns kill, bullets kill and I like Mike Bloomberg and want him to spend his money making the fight with the NRA equal.

No, he is not my hero, I would say LBJ might be, Mark Rudd might be, FDR might be, and Barack Obama currently is, but I do like Mike.

I believe one should walk away and not fight, takes a real man to back off.

and if there were opportunities for all (especially minorities,) and people would stop being racist, there would be no gangs needed. Gangs just provide any group througout history something or someway to feed their family and feel wanted. Most street crime is to feed themselves (sort of like lying gun lovers saying they kill deer so they have food).

And get rid of guns, you get rid of most killings. Get rid of crime, you get rid of the need for guns.

And stockpiling guns like the Wackos at Waco got them justice from Janet Reno, who btw is also a hero of mine. Took a lot of years to learn how great Janet was. (because of the spin meisters out there.)

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #18)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:36 AM

19. You can deny all you want

 

but your words are there for all to look up. You have stated time and time again that Hero Mike is going to use his billions to break the NRA, that's your own words, you have stated that Pres. Obama is justified in protecting the country by any and all means, even if it's unconstitutional, you have stated that cops can stop crime by any and all means, whether constitutional or not.

You, my friend, have a strange view of the Constitution and the BoR.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:00 AM

20. again you are wrong

 

Obama is doing WHAT CONGRESS AUTHORIZED A PRESIDENT TO DO.

Like it or not, CONGRESS AUTHORIZED IT.

And I do believe a president should never cede power it was 100% legally given. No matter which president.

And that my friend IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

You are misinterpreting the constitution as to powers. Obama has done nothing that wasn't authorized by congress TO FIGHT THE WAR ON TERROR.

Don't like Bush? Make sure Jeb don't become 45 in 2016 and Hillary defeats him soundly.

And sorry, #2 is misinterpreted by you, and only THIS CURRENT SUPREME COURT AND THE NRA MONEY MACHINE keeps that interpretation going. Some day, somewhere we will have a different court and maybe a different interpretation.

and someday we will have something to make ammo obsolete (much like the physical act of going to a clinic or backalley to have an abortion will become obsolete by new medicine that is 100% effective.)

just like cigarettes are now considered bad and 90% of America has gotten away from them, and the KKK is spit upon when they march (though I personally would consider them terrorists not worthy of free speech).

and you could look my words up.

wish the board I used to be on didn't disappear overnight that now one can't even find the cache in google of anymore, so that one could have followed the 80,000 posts I had made there, and how my positions evolved from 2004 to the present.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:15 AM

25. I stand by my comments

 

and I am done with you. Your hatred of LEO came through loud and clear with your first post of this thread. If you have any decency at all, you would edit or delete that post.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #25)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:20 PM

40. I did not post it in the other thread, but in this one it applies.

 

all Good cops should agree to get rid of all bad cops and to tear down the fabled blue wall of silence (and don't deny it does not exist.)

I stand by my opinion, you of course have a right to disagree, but not distort my opinion.


(btw-for those that do not know-in NYC at least, police have a couple of days to concoct a story before they need to be questioned on it, and the police conspire with each other to make the best spin out of a story. Very rarely will a police officer speak out against another officer, and once having done so, it marks that officer and puts that officer in danger the next time they are with the "bad" officer. So officers to protect themselves don't tell the truth when questioned it appears.
That is the blue wall of silence and why cops get away with murder.

one would think the good ones want to get rid of the bad ones, but it isn't necessarily true.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #25)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:49 PM

46. I tend to agree with Graham4anything on one point: There are no good cops

as long as the "good" cops don't do anything, except stand by, and let the bad cops get away with murder and torture. And, by and large, that's exactly what they are doing.

All the rest that Graham4anything says, I can't comment on, because I didn't see the posts, but it looks like you are characterizing those posts in a manner that is less than honest.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:51 PM

50. The dishonest part -the remake of Reality in your own image- is that there are no good cops.

That doesn't even make sense on the face of it.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 03:35 PM

56. As a practing attorney I've been closely involved

with cops and Prosecutors for some 23 years now, and since many of them are my friends I get to hear all the stories - the good, the not-so-good and the just God awful. I can honestly say that in all that time I have never heard of more than a couple of bad cops. Most cops are in fact people just like you and me, those you will find in any other walk of life - hard working, decent and with a generally shitty job to perform. In addition, the rise in the level of violence against law enforcement which has transpired over the last 20 years or so creates a level of stress in law enforcement persons which plays havoc with their emotional well-being as well as creating an atmosphere which is generally deadly for their marriage. Don't be so fast to try and tar the large bunch of good cops with the actions of the very few bad ones.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #56)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:29 PM

61. I thank you sir

 

everything you said is 100% spot on.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #61)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:04 PM

92. This broad brush "Fire bad, Cops bad" crap

just pisses me off. It's a hard, thankless profession. We're lucky there are still people willing to take the burden of this profession on to protect the rest of us.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:34 PM

62. BS

 

you know nothing about us obviously. I'm a good cop, have been for almost 30 years now and I find your comment as vile as Graham4anything's comments.
You say you can't comment because you haven't read his posts and then you accuse me of being less than honest, if you haven't read his posts, then how do you know I'm being less than honest?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:51 PM

82. I think that your characterization of his posts HERE, in this thread, are not true to fact.

It follows that your characterization of his other posts (which I have not read) would follow the same pattern.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #82)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:01 PM

83. My characterization of his posts here are quite accurate

 

notice he got a post hidden for his outrageous comments, so until you read his other posts, you have no basis to accuse me of being dishonest.
FWIW, I really don't care what you think of my characterizations of his post HERE.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #83)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:36 AM

88. Hidden posts are not available to read.

FWIW, I'm glad you don't care. Good for you.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #88)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 03:09 AM

89. Hidden posts most certainly are available to read

 

just click where it says "show", then you can read his vile post.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #89)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 08:31 AM

91. I didn't know that! Thank you!

Would you happen to know where I can find the post that he is referring to?

I wonder why it's hidden if you can read it anyway? Seems like that kind of defeats the purpose.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:31 PM

69. no good cops? what idiocy.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:37 AM

102. Odd that line of reasoning

"I don't much like cops, but told you in the other thread I wouldn't argue that point in that thread.) As long as there is one bad cop, and the good cops don't want to out the bad ones, all are suspect til proven guilty. .."


Odd that line of reasoning-- a close friend of mine who's RW believes that very same thing about Muslims.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:29 PM

68. Thanks for your service and I would simply advise to ignore anyone who paints LEOs as racist.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #68)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:18 PM

73. I plan to just ignore him from now on

 

I just wanted people to see where he is really coming from.
Thank you for the kind words.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #15)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:44 PM

94. Whoa...what....?

He believes that citizens have no right to defend themselves even when being attacked, he even stated that killing a criminal that's attacking someone is bad because that criminal could one day find the cure for cancer or AIDS. I shit you not, this guy/gal is way out there with his views.

That's insane. What about the many, many criminals who've snuffed out thousands of potentially brilliant lives for a few bucks or just thrills?

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #94)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 11:19 PM

95. Here's one.

 

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/117274760#post93

It's in this thread, makes for some interesting reading of posts from him.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/117274760

Kind of bizarre really.

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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:44 AM

125. Did the cop wait for facts?

I'm for that, waiting for facts. For everyone. What is your opinion on extending that principle to civilians also?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #125)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:25 AM

126. Um, waiting for facts is always preferable.

Which is why those who claimed the BP agent shot someone simply because he was in the mood appear to now be wrong.

The facts that are dribbling out appear to support the idea that this woman was as much to blame for what happened as anyone else.

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Response to randome (Reply #126)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:14 PM

130. And according to eye witnesses she was not to blame. Nor was the agent ever on the

hood of the car. So it seems you have accepted the facts that are dribbling from the police and have given no consideration to the facts told by eyewitnesses.

If you believe in what you said here, you would want to hear the woman's side of this story from the pov of witnesses who were there before deciding a mother of five deserved to die.

She was a beautiful woman, as described by her friends, and now there are five more children in this violent society we live in, who have lost a mother for the rest of their lives.

It's instructive how quickly, reading comments on articles about this story, people on the far right believed the cops and simply assumed with no evidence whatsoever, that she must be a druggie running from the cops. And wrongfully assumed she was an 'illegal'. Like you they have accepted the cops' story but there is other information that questions that story.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #130)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:17 PM

136. You might want to revise your statement

 

She most certainly did strike the agent and she knew that they were LE.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/03/tp-chula-vista-police-woman-tried-to-flee/

Or are you another one of those cop haters who won't believe anything the cops say despite the what the evidence says?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:36 PM

113. See my reply below. It turns out that the woman was on probation and was fleeing the scene

of a law enforcement officer serving a warrant on an alien drug trafficker and used her car to assault an officer who then used his weapon to defend his life.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=254456

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Response to grantcart (Reply #113)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 02:03 PM

115. I saw that

 

now Graham4anything owes an apology although I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for one.
Oh yeah, he can't post here because he had a post hidden.

Thanks for posting that update, it would seem that the BP agent is vindicated at this point.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:38 AM

6. but. . .but. . .but they're brown and they speak some funny not-English language

how can we let more non-whites into this great WASP country of ours. We need to keep our blood blue and pure.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:35 AM

29. Sounds like the woman had higher priorities than

Her kids. Several hundred yds. worth.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:04 PM

38. Is that instant path to citizenship open ended? LIke, does everyone have to come before 2013?

Or would you like to just keep it as an open invitation?

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #38)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:14 PM

39. since Columbus said he discovered America, all but native Americans came here as foreigners

 

open ended of course.

Isn't that what the Statue of Liberty implores to all people anywhere?

Unless you are a Native American, you or your relatives came from somewhere as did everyone else

That is what makes America the melting pot of the world.

tear down the fences and let the sun shine in.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #39)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 08:38 AM

99. Hate to break it to you but native Americans came here from somewhere else

 

just before most of the rest of us.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 06:36 PM

70. If she had chosen to stop the car she would be alive.

If and when a driver accidentally runs into someone and then proceeds to drive away with that person hanging on for dear life, it stops being an accident and becomes A CRIME.

While there are corrupt members of law enforcement, you have absolutely no reason to smear this particular person as you do not know anything about him other than he almost got killed by someone who drove for several hundred yards with him on the hood. If you waited until the facts were in before spouting off, you would sound a lot more credible.

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Response to pennylane100 (Reply #70)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:08 PM

80. That depends on how the person got onto the hood


If I believed I was being carjacked, attempted to escape, and the carjacker hung onto my car, I assure you the episode would not end well for the carjacker.

The whole setup is missing from this very brief news article. I would like to know more about how the officer came to be on this woman's hood.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #80)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:27 PM

87. See my reply 86.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:59 PM

78. I don't much care for law enforcement...

but your posts close o being the dumbest I have ever read.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:02 AM

7. Deleted because I caused some butthurt due to some people not being able to read

Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:03 PM - Edit history (3)

And off to ignore goes several more...

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:12 AM

23. What does "Alvarado" tell you?

Please share

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 2, 2012, 10:22 PM

97. Really?

"Border Patrol" agents don't exactly value people who don't have "white names." I shouldn't have to explain it.

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 04:59 AM

98. No, you should explain yourself. Your comment is racist and bigoted on it's own

It seems like you are defending Border Patrol agents who "don't value people who don't have white names."

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 12:48 PM

109. I see.

So the guy should have just kept riding on the hood of her car until she finally decided to stop????

Please........

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 12:54 PM

110. FYI, more than half of the BP agents in the San Diego area have Hispanic surnames

 

The chief of the Chula Vista PD, which is handling the investigation at the moment, is Mr. David Bejarano.



He has an extensive background in law enforcement, including serving as a US Marshal.

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 02:14 PM

116. That's a vile racist comment

 

you should delete this.

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:24 PM

118. I mean seriously, some people can't fucking read

Some people have no goddamn reading comprehension. How the FUCK could anyone mistake my post for supporting the BPA? And how in hell is it racist? LOL damn some people can't fucking read. I wouldn't have to deal with this if I were a 1,000+ post poster.

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #118)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 06:12 PM

123. Dude

 

nobody here is mistaking you for supporting the BPA, you made it extremely clear that you think the BPA are racist. It wouldn't matter how many posts you have, racists comment are racists comment.

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Response to Shitty Mitty (Reply #7)


Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:02 AM

8. How very bizarre!

The article provides few details...the agent was in plain clothes, which may explain why the poor woman drove several hundred yards with him on the hood...but no details about just how she hit him, how fast she was going, or whether she made any attempt to dislodge him. I know one thing for sure, she was scared out of her mind...and I rather imagine the agent was as well...but he had the gun. Hope we get more information.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:09 AM

11. Maybe he was afraid he was about to die.

Seems to me that he was in a life-threatening situation. Amazing how some DUers want to jump to conclusions.

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:02 PM

59. Seems to me

I said he was scared out of his mind as well. I am always disappointed when DUers assume conclusions clearly not offered.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #59)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:38 PM

63. My previous post was not meant to disparage you.

Just thinking out loud.

Sorry if it came across wrong.

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Response to randome (Reply #63)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:46 PM

65. And I shall apologize for pouncing...;-)

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:13 AM

24. Yes, any time a pedestrian in plain clothes looks at me, I aim right at him and hit the gas

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:03 PM

60. Is that what happened?

I haven't seen any additional info....

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:21 AM

14. More about this from the local newspaper

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/28/police-border-patrol-agent-fatally-shoots-woman/


EDIT:

By the way, this happened about several miles from where I live, but I was at work at the time.

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Response to 4lbs (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:52 PM

58. Wow, I think the the BP has some real explaining to do.

Why were they in plain clothes? Why did they try to stop the lady if she had nothing to do with the case?

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Response to 4lbs (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:21 PM

74. 5 - 7 shots according to the article

Many years ago I had a under cover cop run out between 2 parked cars and I nearly hit him and I was not speeding-the cops were going after some people or person on the other side of the street which since I was driving I was not seeing what was going on but figured it out and got the hell out of there since I did not know what was going to happen next
This guy must of been a little behind the rest since I did not see others crossing the street before getting to the area he sprinted out of or he came out of one of the cars
-but of course -the cop yelled obscenities at me (with young children in the car) when I screeched to a halt cuz it was my fault he ran out on the street from a blind spot in to traffic of course
I am assuming they were cops because he did not look like other people in the area and something was going down on the other side of the street
............from the article
The agent was taken to a hospital with unknown injuries, although witnesses said he appeared to be OK.

Family members identified the woman as Valeria “Monique” Alvarado, a 32-year-old housewife who grew up in Chula Vista and lived in Southcrest. She died at the scene.

She had five children, ranging in ages 3 to 17.

“I love her to the fullest. That’s my heart,” said her husband, Gilbert Alvarado, before choking up.
“.............
Authorities did not release further information, including how the agent was struck.

Chula Vista police said the crash occurred on Moss closer to Broadway, and the car drove west, coming to rest near Oaklawn. A large dent was left in the windshield where the officer had impacted, police said.

Witnesses gave differing versions of how the shooting unfolded, including whether they saw the agent on the car.

Hector Salazar, who lives in the area, said he was standing at his mailbox looking through letters when he heard a man yell, “Stop!”

He looked up and saw a man in civilian clothing on the hood of a two-door car, aiming a gun at the windshield.

The man then started pulling the trigger, shooting about five rounds.

Salazar hit the ground, and moments later saw other plainclothes agents approach the car.

Eduardo Comacho, 22, was walking on Woodlawn Avenue with his friend when they heard about seven shots.

He saw a man in a red shirt, without a badge, holding his gun. He appeared shaken. Other undercover officers joined him, pulling out their badges as they walked.

“The lady was hanging out the door, barely moving,” Comacho said. The agents checked her pulse, and medics who arrived shortly after began CPR on her on the ground. Comacho could see what appeared to be bullet wounds in her chest, shoulder, arm and leg.

“He did not miss,” Comacho said.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:12 AM

22. The BP agent used deadly force against a violent attack with a deadly weapon

 

That seems reasonable.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:25 AM

26. Really?

Some random plainclothes guy is somehow on your hood (unsure how that happened) and he is yelling at you and then pulls a gun.

In an area where there might be drug violence, kidnapping, robberies, or what not, I am not sure my instinct as a driver would be to calmly stop so that an armed gunman could approach me. I would more likely want the guy off my car hood.

How he got on the hood is not clear and the news article quote about 'stuck in the windshield' seems odd. I would think as an officer your instinct would be to roll off the damn car, not draw a weapon and fire. Seems like a complete overreaction and too much force to me.

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Response to kirby (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:29 AM

27. "...rode on the hood of her car after she ran into him, authorities and family members said."

 

There doesn't seem to be any dispute about how he ended up on the hood of the car.

I am not sure my instinct as a driver would be to calmly stop so that an armed gunman could approach me.

I can see mowing down someone who drew a gun on me who was not obviously a law enforcement officer, but nothing in the article indicates that he drew his gun before he was on top of the car.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:02 PM

31. Eyewitnesses say the BP agent wasn't on the car.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/28/police-border-patrol-agent-fatally-shoots-woman/?page=2#article

She said she happened to look out the window to see the Honda backing up slowly, and a man in a red shirt walking toward the car.

“Then I heard, ‘Pop, pop, pop,’” she said. She yelled at her children and aunt with her in the apartment to get down.

Apartment resident Prince Watson said he also saw the driver going in reverse, with no one on the car.

“She wasn’t speeding or driving erratic at all. I heard the agent say, ‘Stop.’ He was in the street and started shooting and walking toward the car,” Watson recalled.

Authorities did not name who they were going to arrest, but said it was not the woman.

Christian Ramirez, an immigrant rights activist with Southern Border Community Coalition, said the shooting was “troubling.”

“The victim was not wanted by authorities and she was a U.S. citizen,” Ramirez said.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:08 PM

32. And other eyewitness' say he was on the hood of the car

 

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:33 PM

33. Schrödinger's BP Agent?

 

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:41 PM

34. Not enough information yet.

Did she hit the guy in civilian clothes waving a gun around?

Did he roll off the car at some point?

Did he then shoot her as she backed away?

That would seem to be consistent with the eyewitness accounts. But it's not clear.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:56 PM

36. I agree

 

not enough info yet, and yet, there are a couple of posters here, one in particular, that have ready to convict the agent. I direct your attention to post #1

graham4anything (497 posts)
1. the criminals are the border patrol racists

amnesty and instant path to citizenship for all in 2013.
and get rid of the corrupt border patrol.

Rest in peace Miss Alvarado.Sympathies to your family and friends.

as usual guns kill. a corrupt agent kills someone who accidentally ran into him.
again, punishment does not fit the allegation. Judge/Jury/Guns.

and 5 kids have no mother.

my heart weeps.

As Abraham Lincoln stated, “We could not secure the good we did secure if we grasped for more".


As a cop myself, comments like this just sickens me.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:29 PM

47. you and me both

And I'm not a cop. There's no amount of money anyone could pay me to go to work every day wondering if I'll get killed before the end of my shift.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:58 PM

53. You ought to try working at a 7-11.

Being a cop doesn't even rank in the top ten most dangerous professions.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:41 PM

44. Have you ever worn a gun?

I'm pretty sure you have. Do you think you could draw it while sliding around on the hood of a moving vehicle without falling off?

I dunno. There's not enough information to guess either way. That pretty much means not giving either side the benefit of the doubt.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:54 PM

52. "There doesn't seem to be any dispute about how he ended up on the hood of the car. "

Of course there is, that is one missing piece of info. There is even contradicting eyewitnesses.

Was the lady talking on the phone and not paying attention and ran into a pedestrian, then freaked out when the guy pulled a gun out?
Did the plainclothes guy think this lady was fleeing some scene and he jumped in front of the car trying to stop her but she didnt see him?
Did the lady somehow know he was a border patrol agent and ran into him trying to flee?
Was this a murder being covered up as a 'hit and run'?

None of this is known yet.

Most accidents are accidents. I mean one second this lady is focused on something and then to her in the next split second some guy in on her hood yelling stop! That would freak me out.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:11 PM

81. How did he get onto the hood of the car?


Was he in plainclothes attempting to stop her, and leading her to believe she was a carjacking victim?

Way too little information here to form an opinion.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #81)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:55 AM

90. Either she drove the car into him, or perhaps there is another explanation...

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #90)

Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:45 PM

93. I'm thinking if he was trying to stop her...

...and she didn't know he was an officer, then one thing could have just led to another.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:31 AM

28. Hmmm

There is alot unknown here...if the BP agent was in plain clothes as stated chance are this lady had no idea who he was beyond a man with a gun. If i was driving and had some guy in front of me with a gun and no id... id hit the gas too.Hard to believe a mother of five would suddenly go homical like that out of nowhere. But anything is possible.

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Response to deathrind (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:46 AM

30. If he had the gun drawn, I can understand the woman trying to mow him down

 

That's a big unknown.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:54 PM

35. This story smells funny.

The dead woman is a 32-year-old housewife. There is no allegation of criminality on her part (prior to this incident where she ends up dead). She was not the target of the raid.

The BP agent was in plain clothes.

There are conflicting accounts about whether the agent was actually on the car when he shot her, or even whether he was ever on the car.

You have some eyewitnesses saying he was standing in the street and shot her as she backed away.

Of course the cop "feared for his life." That's the boilerplate language they use every time they kill somebody.

What is not clear from any of these accounts that I've seen is how the interaction between Alvarado and the agent began. Most young housewives don't go out of their way to run over cops. Maybe Alvarado was a secret cartel hitwoman out to kill cops whenever she could. Maybe she just got scared and drived to leave the scene when some unidentified guy started waving a gun at her. I suspect the it's closer to the latter than the former.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:58 PM

37. I've got a better idea.

 

How about we wait for the investigation to finish?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:28 PM

42. Of course. But that doesn't mean we shut up in the mean time.

The heat needs to stay on with these suspicious law enforcement killings. First, to let law enforcement know we are watching, and second, to ensure that the investigation doesn't end up in the circular file.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:29 PM

48. yup. but the cop spokesmen above needs to spin all cops as being perfect

 

when in all these stories over the years, the cops shoot people 41 or 50 times, and are like the ones who beat up Rodney King and then try to cover it up and blame the victim while they keep beating up the victim

(or worse, like the New Orleans cops on Danzinger Bridge who killed or attempted to kill any black who dared to want to find dry land.)

And defending the gun loving Zimmerman's out there to in cold blood shoot to kill anyone then claim self defense for cold blooded stalkings and asssasssinations.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:40 PM

64. You need to stop.

 

Show me where I have spun anything about all cops as being perfect? Your hatred of cops is so obvious that you have to make up stories about me now and try to smear me.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:02 PM

71. "the cop spokesmen above needs to spin all cops as being perfect"

 

That is a vile fucking lie.

Retract it.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:40 PM

43. The latter does make more sense.

I was driving through Kentucky once (I'm from New England) when a car was tailgating me. I put on my flashers so he'd back off. I even waved him away in a "back off" motion. Instead, lights turned on in his car and he got even closer. I was driving through the middle of nowhere alone, so I was scared. I gunned the gas, ready to take the next exit. It occurred to me he might be a cop in a normal car decked out with lights. It also occurred to me he might be an axe murderer in a normal car decked out with lights.

I took the next exit and pulled into a gas station. I wanted to be around other people when I got out of the car. I got out and he got out. I asked, "Are you a police officer?" He said he was and he chased me, because he thought I was having a fit (when I waved him away a couple of times as I was driving). I knew he was pissed I had the gall to turn on my flashers when he was tailgating me and he should have just driven around me, but I didn't say that. He was clearly an asshole.

I was obviously upset and frightened, but he could see I wasn't drunk or high. I forget what we said--nothing accusatory--and he let me go. It probably helped that I'm white. God knows what would have happened if I weren't. I might have been shot dead.

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Response to valerief (Reply #43)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:59 PM

67. Further, factor in the similarity to cartel roadblocks in this case


Graphic reporting by media of kidnappings and bloody mass killings by cartels at roadblocks.

Bunch of guys with guns that do not appear to be law enforcement blocking traffic.

Seems to me another case of the cops going after Ernest T. Bass like he was Pablo Escobar . . . and a nervous mother of five got caught in the middle.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:23 PM

41. Someone got paid to write that headline?

No wonder newspapers are going out of business. That person should be working at a salad bar...

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Response to Matariki (Reply #41)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:42 PM

45. Bwahahaha! So right.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #41)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:42 PM

57. Been that way ever since the anti-gay uber-right-winger Tea-partier Doug Manchester bought it.

What used to be a major metropolitan Daily is now a prolific source of bad writing and typos.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:26 AM

101. I have to agree. It was already pretty bad under the previous owner.

 

Doug Manchester is using the paper as a bully pulpit, even posting front-page editorials.

He's trying to buy the only other semi-viable paper in San Diego County, the North County Times.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:33 PM

49. Maybe she souldn't find the brake pedal.

Or maybe she was driving one of those trick Toyotas.

Several hundred yards?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:52 PM

51. I'm sure her family will sue for millions

along with pressuring the DOJ to bring civil rights violations charges. WTF?

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Response to Gman (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 03:15 PM

55. ...and will get nothing

The code of police solidarity is strong in Southern California. He could have walked up to her house and blown her away as she opened the door, and even admit it was "because some of those Mexicans need killing," and the police board would judge it to be "legitimate self-defense."

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #55)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 10:59 PM

84. Well, the article was about the Border Patrol and not the police

they are two different entities.

In any event, from the sound of the article, any board of review would be 100% correct in ruling legitimate self-defense. That's pretty clear.

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Response to Gman (Reply #84)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:12 PM

85. Which makes about 3/4 of the posts in this thread irrelevant.

Thanks for pointing that out.

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Response to randome (Reply #85)

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 01:03 AM

96. They're all cops.

The BP agent in question was doing undercover warrant work, although it's not clear about what.

People have generalized concerns about law enforcement. It doesn't matter if it's lovable Sheriff Andy in Mayberry or the FBI Swat team, it's those guys who have the power to kill you in the name of the state.

Some of the posts in this thread may, however, have been inelegantly stated, if I can go all Romney on you.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:58 PM

54. He committed murder.

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:48 PM

66. And you know this how?

 

By reading a newspaper? Why not wait for the investigation to be completed? Or are you another one of those people who hate cops so much that no matter what, they're guilty?

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 07:08 PM

72. What is so hard about holding back the opinions

until all the facts are in. Do we really want to sound like a bunch of uninformed freepers.

Yes there are bad cops, my friend got hauled in by two crooked cops and thrown into jail with a twenty thousand dollar bail because the the car he had just got out of (he was a passenger) was illegally searched. Supposedly they found two unidentified pills on the floor. They never wrote up a police report and after three court appearance with no police report the case was dismissed and my friend was out two thousand dollars bail. If I knew who they were, I would love to make their life miserable. However, that does not mean that all cops are bad.

Have you ever been stranded on a dark highway at night and a highway patrol officer stays out in the pouring rain to help you change your tire. Have you ever thought you heard someone breaking into your house in the middle of the night and within a few minutes there is a cop there to help you. There are all sorts of cops, good, bad and in between so why no give this one the benefit of the doubt and wait till the full story is told.

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Response to pennylane100 (Reply #72)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:29 PM

75. False premise.

Those who insist we "wait for all the facts" often aren't ever satisfied all the facts are in.

As a tactic for preempting further discussion, however...

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Response to Occulus (Reply #75)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:45 PM

76. Actually your's is the real false premise.

As all the facts are not yet known, you have no way of knowing (a) whether it will satisfy all those who want to wait for them and (b) if there will be further discussion. The Romney campaign did not wait for to learn all the facts before they started attacking the embassy staff and the Obama administration when four Americans were killed in Libya and look how stupid they made themselves look. So if that is the type of company you wish to keep, so be it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:47 PM

77. I remember watching Robert Blake wrestle cars on TV in Baretta

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:04 PM

79. Photo of the incident...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:27 PM

86. The way the AP reported this story (or how the Wash. Post edited the AP copy) leaves a lot of holes.

Further in the article:

Family members said Valeria Alvarado grew up in Chula Vista where the shooting took place but had been living about five miles away in the Southcrest neighborhood of San Diego, and they did not know why she was in her former hometown.

Hector Salazar, one of several neighbors who witnessed the incident, said he saw a man in civilian clothes on the hood of a black car aiming a gun at the windshield.

Salazar told U-T San Diego the man started pulling the trigger, and he heard about five shots. Moments later, other plainclothes agents approached the car, he said.


Undisputedly, the undercover Border Patrol agents wanted to arrest someone other than Alvarado. But how did the BP'er get hit in the first place? Article doesn't say. So I searched some San Diego news outlets.

San Diego Union-Tribune 9/29:

Border Patrol officials said Friday that agents were in the neighborhood to serve a felony warrant when the agent was “assaulted with a vehicle.”

“Fearing for his life, he discharged his weapon to get the vehicle to stop,” Border Patrol Deputy Chief Rodney Scott said.


KFMB/CBS 8 9/29:

Hector Salazar, who lives nearby, told the U-T he was standing at his mailbox when he heard a man yell, "Stop!" He said he saw a man on the hood of a two-door car, aiming a gun at the windshield. He said heard five shots.

Eduardo Comacho, 22, said he was walking on Woodlawn Avenue with a friend. He told the U-T they heard about seven shots. He said he saw a man in a red shirt, without a badge, holding his gun. He appeared shaken. Other undercover officers joined him, pulling out their badges as they walked.

Also from the U-T:

“The last time we heard gunshots in this neighborhood was maybe five years ago,” said Marco Garcia, who for 40 years has lived in the home at the corner where the incident ended. “We are not used to this type of publicity.”


If the BP agents were plainclothes, how would anyone know who they were? On the other hand, did Valeria Alvarado have some inside knowledge of Border Patrol roaming her old hometown?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:23 AM

100. UPDATE Wednesday, 10/3 - Chula Vista Police say woman tried to flee

 

A woman who was fatally shot by a U.S. Border Patrol agent after hitting him with her car had moments earlier been in an apartment known for drug activity where the agents were trying to arrest a felon, according to new details released by Chula Vista police Tuesday.

Police said Valeria “Munique” Tachiquin Alvarado, 32, struck the agent Friday as she pulled the car away from the curb. A second agent reached into her Honda to remove the keys from the ignition, and she pulled forward and struck the first agent again, this time driving with him on the car’s hood.

The agent, fearing for his life, yelled “Stop!” and then pulled out his gun, firing several rounds to halt the car, officials said.

Alvarado, a married mother of five, was on probation for a 2011 drug-related conviction, police said....


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/03/tp-chula-vista-police-woman-tried-to-flee/

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #100)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:58 AM

104. That puts a whole new twist on the story,

 

sounds like self defense, but I'll wait for the official investigation and report to conclude.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #104)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 12:47 PM

108. yup, she was clearly defending herself from a gang of crazed drug warriors.

but i'm waiting for the facts to come out.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #100)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:03 AM

105. Interesting. I wonder if those undercovers identified themselves as cops.

Were they waving badges?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #105)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:25 AM

106. CVPD Chief David Bejarano just spoke. He said badges were displayed. DETAILS ADDED.

 

Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (2)

There was no doubt the men were cops. There is much more, way too much to type on Crackberry. Stay tuned.

ETA from a real computer:

Chief Bejarano said that the BP agents involved were all displaying badges, either on chains or clipped to their belts. From his description there is no question that everyone in the apartment was aware that BP agents were looking for a known felon, and that the apartment was known to have been the location of "drug activity."

He said that the woman who was killed was on probation for a drug-related offense from 2011.

He said the BP officer who did the shooting was attempting to prevent her from driving away. She hit him with her car once, apparently not hard. A second BP officer used a special tool of some kind to break the driver's side window. He reached into the car and attempted to grab the keys, but the woman was able to drive off. She struck the first BP officer a second time, harder. He landed on the hood and may have broken the windshield.

The woman drove off and went about 200 yards. The officer on the hood was yelling at her to stop. At one point she drove into oncoming traffic to pass another vehicle. She made a U-turn. At that point the officer on the hood started shooting.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #100)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:34 PM

112. And the article goes on to say that she was in the apartment and was fleeing.



According to police, who are leading the investigation into the shooting, a group of plainclothes agents went to an apartment on Moss Street near Oaklawn Avenue shortly before 1 p.m. with an arrest warrant for a felon who had been previously deported and had a history of drug charges.

The unit was known to have prior complaints of drug activity, police Capt. Gary Wedge said.

Alvarado was one of several people inside the apartment when four of the agents approached and identified themselves as law enforcement, Wedge said.

She replied that the man they wanted was in the shower in back, then she brushed past the agents and walked toward her car, Wedge said.

The agents alerted two other agents who were guarding the perimeter of the apartment, and they tried to stop Alvarado as she got into her Honda. She struck one of them with the car as she started to pull away, police said.

The agent, who wore a badge on his belt, told her she was under arrest for vehicular assault, while a second agent with a badge around his neck smashed the driver’s side window and tried to remove the keys, Wedge said.





Whatever anyone thinks about any of the drug laws is quite beyond the point. When you flee a law endorcement officer who is serving legal warrants and use your car to assault a law enforcement officer then you should expect them to use lethal force to defend their life.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #112)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:42 PM

119. there's a whole lot i'm not getting.

Why were bp serving a warrant and not ice?

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Response to Sivafae (Reply #119)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:17 AM

127. I also did not know that BP agents serve warrants.

I did know that Border Patrol does more intelligence work than is widely known. In coordination with Customs they identify suspicious cars or trucks at the port of entry and let them pass and the Border Patrol then follows them with plain clothes. Customs has no authority to pursue past 100 meters (not sure on the exact distance) and that is the Border Patrol responsibility.

They are looking for the safe houses where they are taking either the contraband or the human trafficking. At that point they can either make an arrest or pass the information to ICE for more detailed investigation.

To be very specific Border Patrol uses plain clothes investigators to follow hot leads generated at the border. This is how, for example, they found people were cleverly using the Salton Sea to get around a Border Patrol checkpoint:

http://usopenborders.com/2012/07/border-patrol-stops-salton-sea-boat-smuggling-attempt-2/.

So the most likely scenario on this case is like this: At San Ysidro a license plate read at a computer alerts Customs that because of the data on the car or the past on the driver that it is possible that it is 'hot' and Border Patrol authorizes it to be waived through. Then it goes to CV where it is kept under surveillance for some time. People that enter and leave the residence are cataloged and the information is given to the DEA and ICE. When they decide to pull the plug then the Border Patrol executes a search warrant to arrest the primary target that will be arrested not simply on the facts of what they found at the safe house but for the crime of transporting from the border, hence the Border Patrol involvement.

That this woman was going to a location where, it appears, was a safe house with someone just arriving from the border makes her situation look even more suspicious. Perhaps she was in the business of transporting from the Safe House to LA or something like that. The facts that she was on probation, that she fled, that she refused to obey an officer's command, that she hit the Border Patrol agent, that she then avoided another agents attempt to turn off the engine and then assaulted the BP agent a second time indicates that she knew exactly what was happening.

For me the most interesting part of this story is that I talked with about 12 agents before the additional information was made known and none of them jumped to the defense of the agent. All of them said that they had to wait for more facts and that the agent could have screwed up. At DU, not so much. A lot of jumping before the facts were known. It is also worth noting that the primary target of the warrant and all of the others were arrested without injury.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:47 AM

103. Sounds reasonable.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:20 PM

111. Sad story, but there are so many unanswered questions.

How did she come to hit the BP agent? Why didn't she stop right away after hitting him? Did he approach her without identifying himself? Was she afraid that it was a carjacking?

Whatever the results of the investigation, I'm sorry that a young life is over and that 5 children lost their mother.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #111)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:46 PM

114. We're all sorry for that.

But it sounds like she created the situation that killed her.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #111)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:41 AM

128. A lot of questions are unanswered and some of the answered ones are suspect.

When the PR from a PD states that the officer was fearing for his life, that only means it was the justification for the shooting. It doesn't answer the question of whether the officer acted appropriately in the events leading up to it. That initial "vehicular assault" is the one I'd like to know more about.

From the scant facts available she may have been trying to avoid the probation violation. If that's the worst of her criminal involvement it's really sad that she ended up dead.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #128)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:55 AM

129. The biggest question in my mind is this - What was a mother of five who was on probation...

 

...for a drug-related crime doing in an apartment with a known felon?

From the scant facts available she may have been trying to avoid the probation violation.

That does seem like a reasonable explanation for her apparent panic, but why was she there in the first place?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #129)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:07 PM

132. Reasonable explanation: gave a ride to a friend or relative (one of the others in the apartment)

or went to visit a friend or relative, maybe even the felon. I could find myself in a room with a felon that way and trust me, I'm not there to do anything illegal. Growing up in a low income community means that I know a lot of felons, nearly all of them convicted for drug felonies only.

eta: and I'm also sure that I've been in the presence of felons without knowing it for the same reason.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #132)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:43 PM

133. That's possible, but if her reasons for being there were innocent then why did she panic?

 

It's pretty clear that she know that the man she hit was a law enforcement officer.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #133)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:06 PM

134. Even if she hit him intentionally (and some witness accounts suggest otherwise)

it was a very stressful situation, with a screaming man on her hood and another diving into the window to take away her keys. She may have simply panicked.

Again though, I have no idea who did what or for what reason. The woman may have been the head of a drug cartel for all I know. The agent may have used poor judgment in pursuing her so vigorously and by doing so created the situation which ultimately ended in her death. There's a lot that will need to be sorted out in this incident. Unlike others, I'm not willing to throw all the blame on her at this point.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #134)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:57 PM

135. It could even have been some combination of what you've suggested.

Unless we have a DUer as an actual witness, we are left to pick up clues where we can.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #129)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:32 PM

137. Perhaps it was as simple as

"Hey Slackmaster, can you take me to my friends house? I left my glasses over there the other night and I need them for work tonite. Why don't you come in and meet him? He's pretty cool."


One thing that infuriates me is guilt by association. There is no way that we will ever know that she knew she was in a felon's house, or that she even knew the people that lived there. It really could be an issue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And with her legal problems, she knew she wasn't going to get out it all that easy.

"Obviously being up to no good" is in direct conflict with "presumed innocent until proven guilty."

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 02:47 PM

117. Literacy Among Headline Writers Hits All Time Low

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 03:51 PM

121. I'm thinking that if the cop hadn't had his weapon he might have handled this a different way.

But he did and, fearing for his life, he used it. Of course there is very little real information in the story as written so this is pure speculation on my part.

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Response to crim son (Reply #121)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:40 PM

131. Did you read post #106?

 

How do you handle someone driving aggressively and erratically while trapped on the hood? Make them tea?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #131)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:20 AM

138. I'm not disagreeing with you.

Not sure if I read post #106, however.

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