Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:16 AM

bupkus (1,981 posts)

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This message was self-deleted by its author (bupkus) on Fri Sep 28, 2012, 06:57 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

38 replies, 3467 views

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38 replies	Author	Time	Post
This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)	bupkus	Sep 2012	OP
what could go wrong? nt	backwoodsbob	Sep 2012	#1
As a substitute teacher, I saw the term "savages" in a 4th grade history book	no_hypocrisy	Sep 2012	#2
Could you please change title to:	Blue State Bandit	Sep 2012	#3
WTH...	jonesgirl	Sep 2012	#4
Republican Convention 2008	Baltimore	Sep 2012	#18
I say let her have her ads. Any artists out there?	DinahMoeHum	Sep 2012	#5
Question	jonesgirl	Sep 2012	#6
You do understand that this is private speech that the Government was censoring?	ProgressiveProfessor	Sep 2012	#7
Do uou understand this can geT pEople killed?	robinlynne	Sep 2012	#13
I have lived in muslim countries...I understand the risk and circumstances	ProgressiveProfessor	Sep 2012	#19
I was just asking a question. That's all	jonesgirl	Sep 2012	#24
Legally its not hate speech	ProgressiveProfessor	Sep 2012	#8
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#16
A view from the Shia's	ChazII	Sep 2012	#9
It wasn't the Palestinians who bulldozed Rachel Corrie to death.	closeupready	Sep 2012	#10
NY subway system has already been targeted by jihadists - this just adds fuel to the flames	wordpix	Sep 2012	#11
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#15
oh hell no. Dont let it go up!	robinlynne	Sep 2012	#12
???	heaven05	Sep 2012	#14
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#17
Free speech means free speech, whether you like it or not.	harmonicon	Sep 2012	#20
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#22
Glad to see your laissez faire attitude	ProgressiveProfessor	Sep 2012	#25
What I am is a human being with free will writing about my expression of my free will in words.	harmonicon	Sep 2012	#29
As is bupkus. Yet, you condemn him, and glorify Geller.	closeupready	Sep 2012	#30
How and when did I glorify Geller?	harmonicon	Sep 2012	#31
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#32
I didn't condemn Bush's actions?	harmonicon	Sep 2012	#34
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#35
I have no idea what that would really mean, because "support" is a word that's been...	harmonicon	Sep 2012	#37
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#38
I support the Anti-Defamation League's Position on Geller:	Junkdrawer	Sep 2012	#21
"Support Israel"	Ash_F	Sep 2012	#23
"Hate speech isn't free speech."	rachel1	Sep 2012	#26
I wonder if equally hateful anti-Semitic ads were placed within the nyc subway system- would people	Douglas Carpenter	Sep 2012	#27
This message was self-deleted by its author	bupkus	Sep 2012	#33
Hey Geller...how bout supporting AMERICA and defeating corruption within our government!!!	jonesgirl	Sep 2012	#28
Is she starting the Kosher Klan?	Mopar151	Sep 2012	#36

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:19 AM

backwoodsbob (4,748 posts)

1. what could go wrong? nt

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:39 AM

no_hypocrisy (25,290 posts)

2. As a substitute teacher, I saw the term "savages" in a 4th grade history book

in its depiction of Native Americans. I took the opportunity to educate. Told the kids about the "real story" about the Pilgrims and the settlors who followed them. Stuff about their ideas of private property and letting their Native American benefactors starve as their hunting grounds, planting fields, water rights were taken away. And described what it feels like to starve incrementally.

Then I asked them who were the "real" savages.

If ads like the ones in the subways are going up, the only remedy is push-back with facts.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:55 AM

Blue State Bandit (1,574 posts)

3. Could you please change title to:

NY Judge Allows Bigot to Paint Target on NY Transit System. (snark)

When we are attacked, I'm sure it will be because they don't like our freedom and all that stuff. It will have nothing to do with the repeated insults, dehumanizing actions of people like this.

They are using our Constitution to destroy our Constitution.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:42 AM

jonesgirl (157 posts)

4. WTH...

In my opinion, Ms Geller is provoking something that is way over her head. Honestly, if she is so worried about Israel, then let's send her over there to help them. This way she can be up close and personal with her war on Jihad!
I wonder if she's republican? Seems like all that party wants to do is run their mouths and start war.

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Response to jonesgirl (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:13 AM

Baltimore (173 posts)

18. Republican Convention 2008

Wikipedia says she was the official blogger at the Republican Convention in 2008. She's also a birther, photoshopped a picture of Obama urinating on an American flag, tons of other horrible stuff.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:49 AM

DinahMoeHum (12,317 posts)

5. I say let her have her ads. Any artists out there?

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:51 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

If there are, I encourage you to: Do Your Stuff

I read in Salon that artists in San Francisco had a field day defacing similar ads:
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/21/anti_islam_savage_ad_set_for_subway/

It would be a lot of fun to ride the subways and see what our artist friends out there have done to that nubile pornographic priestess' (Pam "Pammycakes" Geller) ads.

Can't wait for someone to post some examples. Heh heh.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:59 AM

jonesgirl (157 posts)

6. Question

If our government cannot speak for or against religion, then how is this protected under our First Amendment Freedom of Speech?

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Response to jonesgirl (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:22 AM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

7. You do understand that this is private speech that the Government was censoring?

Ad space is sold on the subway system. The subway did not want to run this ad due to its content. The court said that the government agency could not block this example private speech but allow others. Good call by the court. The NYC Subway has a choice about pulling all ads but cannot censor ones it dislikes.

Bad choice by the people putting them out.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:55 AM

robinlynne (15,164 posts)

13. Do uou understand this can geT pEople killed?

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:07 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

19. I have lived in muslim countries...I understand the risk and circumstances

So I think I have a pretty good handle on it.

I could also give you a very lengthy list of things that can get people killed. The real issue is risk management.

Its small, its limited, and arguably it could also desensitize the mobs.

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Response to jonesgirl (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:05 PM

jonesgirl (157 posts)

24. I was just asking a question. That's all

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:26 AM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

8. Legally its not hate speech

or the court would have allowed the subway to block them.

As it is often said, the best remedy for offensive speech is more speech. groups should buy counter ads or ads supporting peace. Besides, the subway needs the revenue. It would also block the space from being re rented.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #8)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:28 AM

ChazII (3,150 posts)

9. A view from the Shia's

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235006474-new-york-mta-ad-support-israel-defeat-jihad/page__hl__%2Bsubway

This is an interesting site and I enjoy reading it for their point of view.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:48 AM

closeupready (19,462 posts)

10. It wasn't the Palestinians who bulldozed Rachel Corrie to death.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:53 AM

wordpix (12,478 posts)

11. NY subway system has already been targeted by jihadists - this just adds fuel to the flames

This is NOT in Israel's or the US's best interests at all.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #11)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:54 AM

robinlynne (15,164 posts)

12. oh hell no. Dont let it go up!

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:08 AM

heaven05 (2,372 posts)

14. ???

that will be a real, real stupid provocation. How ignorant can a group be? Stupid!

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #14)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 02:23 PM

harmonicon (11,933 posts)

20. Free speech means free speech, whether you like it or not.

If you want to get rid of it, by all means, lobby congress to amend the constitution. I'm not too worried about that, because I assume you'd fail.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #20)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:10 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

25. Glad to see your laissez faire attitude

Towards constitutional rights is not just limited to the Second Amendment

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Response to bupkus (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:13 PM

harmonicon (11,933 posts)

29. What I am is a human being with free will writing about my expression of my free will in words.

That you would seek to take right away from some is appalling.

I support non-violence in almost all cases, but I think I possibly would fight to preserve freedom of speech. Those who would seek to limit freedom of speech to appease terrorists are nothing but their allies. Thankfully, I'm free to say that.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:21 PM

closeupready (19,462 posts)

30. As is bupkus. Yet, you condemn him, and glorify Geller.

Why is that? Very confusing.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:29 PM

harmonicon (11,933 posts)

31. How and when did I glorify Geller?

Of course I condemn anyone who would suggest that we shouldn't have freedom of speech. I especially condemn the notation that we should abandon freedoms for the sake of appeasing violent extremists. I thought that was a real no-brainer, but I guess not. I'm sort of blown away that this could even be a topic of debate.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #31)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 05:42 PM

harmonicon (11,933 posts)

34. I didn't condemn Bush's actions?

Wow. I have a totally different memory of that time, but I guess you would know - you know me so well.

You seem to have a real cognitive dissonance going on here. Just because I support someone's right to say whatever they'd like does not mean that I agree that they should say it. There are a great number of things in the world that I don't think people should say and do that they do anyway, and I'm ok with that.

Just to be clear, I'm also absolutely ok with religious extremists having freedom of speech. They can say any crazy shit they want. It's actions that I have a problem with. It's actions which harm people - not words.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #34)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 09:59 PM

harmonicon (11,933 posts)

37. I have no idea what that would really mean, because "support" is a word that's been...

completely denuded of meaning the context of US politics.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #37)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 02:52 PM

Junkdrawer (26,008 posts)

21. I support the Anti-Defamation League's Position on Geller:

Letters to the Editor
New York Jewish Week March 26, 2012

To the Editor:

Pamela Geller attempts to change the subject when it comes to her own vitriolic rhetoric against Muslims (Letters, March 23). But let's be clear: Geller should not be allowed to get away with playing the victim and hiding behind the mask of a "patriot and proud Zionist."

Geller's self-righteous campaign to show the world the "true face" of Islam is abhorrent and morally repugnant. Geller, in views she outlines in her blog, has linked Islam to bestiality and rape of minors, compared Muslims to Nazis and asserted that Islam inspired Hitler. The Anti-Defamation League has closely followed her anti-Muslim scapegoating and that of Stop Islamization of America, the organization she leads, and has posted additional examples of her comments on its website.

Terrorism inspired by fundamentalist Islam is indeed a true threat to America, Israel and democracies around the world. But in directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith — indeed, in supporting campaigns to suggest that Muslims should abandon their faith entirely — Geller fuels and fosters anti-Muslim bigotry in society.

....

http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20120326_NY+Jewish+Week.htm

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:29 PM

Ash_F (1,743 posts)

23. "Support Israel"

These right-wingers are motivated by their hatred of Muslims, not any kind of support for Israel. Yet they try to mask it as such. Thank you for posting.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:14 PM

rachel1 (538 posts)

26. "Hate speech isn't free speech."

I could not agree more.

I'm expecting some defamation lawsuits against the NY subway system and the advertiser.

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:14 PM

Douglas Carpenter (15,138 posts)

27. I wonder if equally hateful anti-Semitic ads were placed within the nyc subway system- would people

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:15 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

be defending this as first amendment rights?

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #27)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to bupkus (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:28 PM

jonesgirl (157 posts)

28. Hey Geller...how bout supporting AMERICA and defeating corruption within our government!!!

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Response to bupkus (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 09:48 PM

Mopar151 (6,048 posts)

36. Is she starting the Kosher Klan?

Only appear in public with police protection, as offensive to their "own people" as they are to those they oppose. So twisted up with hate that they're completely delusional.

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