Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:20 PM
Viva_La_Revolution (27,113 posts)
Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting
Source: NBC News
A long-awaited report on the U.S. government’s controversial gun-trafficking operation known as “Fast and Furious” released Wednesday found no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder knew of the botched effort to trace the flow of guns to Mexico’s drug cartels prior to its public unraveling in January 2011. The report by the Justice Department’s inspector general said there "no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation" before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011. The inspector general did determine that the acting deputy attorney general, Gary Grindler, received a briefing about the ill-fated gun-tracing operation in March 2010, but that the briefing "failed to alert Grindler to problems in the investigation." Read more: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13966068-investigation-finds-no-evidence-ag-eric-holder-knew-of-fast-and-furious-gun-running-sting?lite more at link
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44 replies, 3707 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| Viva_La_Revolution | Sep 2012 | OP | |
| monmouth | Sep 2012 | #1 | |
| democrat_patriot | Sep 2012 | #2 | |
| Panasonic | Sep 2012 | #3 | |
| Hoyt | Sep 2012 | #4 | |
| bongbong | Sep 2012 | #11 | |
| Hoyt | Sep 2012 | #15 | |
| bongbong | Sep 2012 | #16 | |
| Kingofalldems | Sep 2012 | #5 | |
| librechik | Sep 2012 | #6 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #20 | |
| pkdu | Sep 2012 | #31 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #35 | |
| lamp_shade | Sep 2012 | #7 | |
| hughee99 | Sep 2012 | #8 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #42 | |
| bpj62 | Sep 2012 | #9 | |
| mindwalker_i | Sep 2012 | #10 | |
| Mnpaul | Sep 2012 | #12 | |
| Scuba | Sep 2012 | #13 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #14 | |
| underpants | Sep 2012 | #17 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #19 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #21 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #22 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #25 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #27 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #28 | |
| pkdu | Sep 2012 | #32 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #36 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #41 | |
| underpants | Sep 2012 | #44 | |
| hack89 | Sep 2012 | #23 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #24 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #26 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #29 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #30 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #34 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #37 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #39 | |
| pkdu | Sep 2012 | #33 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #38 | |
| hack89 | Sep 2012 | #40 | |
| Spitfire of ATJ | Sep 2012 | #43 | |
| underpants | Sep 2012 | #18 |
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:28 PM
monmouth (21,078 posts)
1. During the Q&A period of the infamous Rmoney dinner in Boca, one of the questioners made the
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statement that Eric Holder "was one of the most corrupt people in the administration," before he went on to malign Nancy Pelosi. I wondered about that statement and wonder if this is what his low information comment was about.
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:28 PM
democrat_patriot (2,766 posts)
2. Some good ammo for those people that like to bring this up.
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You know...'those people'. |
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
Panasonic (2,921 posts)
3. Now can we send Issa to the Ethics Committe
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for a permanent expulsion from Congress?
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
Hoyt (12,367 posts)
4. Well, that will make the NRA and right wing gun crowd very unhappy.
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They've been hoping to impeach Holder/Obama with this or some other trumped up charges. |
Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:37 PM
bongbong (5,436 posts)
11. MIA
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The DU Gun Lobby is MIA on this thread. Maybe they're too busy having a collective whine-fest at the latest developments in the SYG murder case of Zimmerman.
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Response to bongbong (Reply #11)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 04:39 PM
Hoyt (12,367 posts)
15. Yep, their disappointment is palpable.
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How have you been? Say hello to everyone. |
Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:05 PM
bongbong (5,436 posts)
16. LOL
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Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:05 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) The DU Gun Lobby in the gungeon seem to be quite content spewing their lies without your inconvenient truths to sully their bubble world.
I might be joining you soon. Look at this post, about how worthless my posts are. Note the sender: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=72849 Just a matter of time until I get the Zimmerman treatment over there. I'll try to relate your greetings to everyone while I still can. |
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:32 PM
Kingofalldems (11,197 posts)
5. And I remember at least one gungeoneer pronounced him guilty as charged
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Imagine that.
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:36 PM
librechik (25,163 posts)
6. good news is that Issa is revealed to all as a malicious idiot. Bad news is
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why did Holder not know? mostly because the program had already ended months before he took office. But facts like these will not sway the RW narrative against Holder.
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Response to librechik (Reply #6)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:11 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
20. You must be thinking about another program.
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Fast and Furious began in November, 2009. Holder was the AG then.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #20)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:40 PM
pkdu (1,327 posts)
31. Flat Wrong on the start date of F&F n/t
Response to pkdu (Reply #31)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
35. If I'm "flat wrong" then why didn't you supply the correct date?
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Hmmmmm. I just go by what the Inspector General's report said. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:40 PM
lamp_shade (10,014 posts)
7. I really, really, really want to hear Issa's response. n/t
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:41 PM
hughee99 (10,241 posts)
8. Does anyone else find it disturbing that someone in the AG's office or ATF,
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can decide to hand guns over to violent criminals, and no one is required to actually tell the AG about it?
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Response to hughee99 (Reply #8)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:24 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
42. No. Because it was just one agent who was an asshole.
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:44 PM
bpj62 (236 posts)
9. Civil Contempt of Congress Charges
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Darryll Issa filed a civil case demanding that Holder and the Whitehouse turn over the disputed emails. Does this revelation by the IG make that civil filing moot. I have a feeling that Issa will take this case to the Supreme Court.
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:11 PM
mindwalker_i (1,529 posts)
10. DAmnit, that's the wrong answer!
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I heard that coming from the east from California.
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:38 PM
Mnpaul (1,420 posts)
12. The comments are priceless
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I can't just imagine the cons spitting at the screen as they type.
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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:56 PM
Scuba (27,209 posts)
13. Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder has a clue.
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 04:06 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
14. There WAS NO gun running being done by the government. ZERO.
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"Fast and Furious" was a reference to some guys they were monitoring who were running guns and using the money to trick out their cars. The officers wanted to arrest them but couldn't because the laws were too lenient.
The whole "Fast and Furious" story as presented by the Right Wing was a fiction. |
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:05 PM
underpants (105,663 posts)
17. Actually they ran 6 guns...6 total guns
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On June 1, Dodson used $2,500 in ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, and gave these to Fernandez, who reimbursed him and gave him $700 for his efforts. Two days later, according to case records, Dodson—who would later testify that in his previous experience, "if even one got away from us, nobody went home until we found it"—left on a scheduled vacation without interdicting the guns
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/ |
Response to underpants (Reply #17)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
19. That was one guy who got in trouble for it and later posed as THE darling of FOX "News",...
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Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:40 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) ...the agency itself had no gun walking program.
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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:24 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
21. That is not what the IG report says.
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It says officers wanted to arrest gun runners but were prevented by supervisors. Nothing about laws being too lenient.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #21)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:13 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
22. Read the article.
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #22)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
25. I read the chapter on Fast and Furoius in the IG report.
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I also read the conclusions of the IG report. Maybe you should try that. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf
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Response to former9thward (Reply #25)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:24 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
27. Now read this...
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #27)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:27 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
28. You are running from the IG's report for some reason.
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It is very thorough and complete, over 500 pages. I'll go by that, thanks.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:44 PM
pkdu (1,327 posts)
32. Even though you haven't read them by your own admission...say no more. Nt
Response to pkdu (Reply #32)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:52 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
36. I read the relevant sections of the IG's report.
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Try it. It won't bite you. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf
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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:21 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
41. That's like saying the 911 Commission Report is the last word.
Response to former9thward (Reply #28)
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:57 AM
underpants (105,663 posts)
44. I posted the Fortune Mag article too because that is a good summary
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granted the OIG report is more complete but the Fortune article spells out succinctly what all of the elements of this disaster were.
The Fortune article, of course, didn't or couldn't state Holder's knowledge of the operation. |
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
hack89 (21,561 posts)
23. The ATF stood by and let 2000 guns be smuggled into Mexico by cartel gun runners
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where they promptly lost track of them.
This is the actual footnote from the report that explains the Fast and Furious name. 84 The investigation of the first four individuals was initially named “Chambers, Jacob,
et al.” The investigation of Patino was initially opened as a separate matter. The merged investigation carried the Chambers case name, but was also referred to as “the Fast and the Furious” no later than February 2010 when agents learned that subjects of the investigation were members of a car club and ATF received approval to conduct the case as an OCDETF investigation. We refer to the Chambers investigation as “Operation Fast and Furious” for purposes of this report. |
Response to hack89 (Reply #23)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:44 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
24. I repeat, there was no gun running done by the government.
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From the article:
"The ATF's accusers seem untroubled by evidence that the policy they have pilloried didn't actually exist." The whole point was to attack for political gain. |
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #24)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:24 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
26. You quote an article, I'll quote the IG report.
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For the reasons we explained in Chapter Four, we found that
even though these FFLs were not under the direct supervision and control of ATF agents as the FFL was in Operation Wide Receiver, the extent and nature of ATF’s requests for cooperation from FFL1 and FFL2 created at least the appearance that sales to particular Operation Fast and Furious subjects were made with ATF’s approval and authorization. Second, the relationships with the FFLs in these two investigations created at least the appearance that ATF agents approved or encouraged sales of firearms that they knew were unlawful and that they did not intend to seize. In Operation Wide Receiver, agents clearly sanctioned the unlawful sale of firearms; in Operation Fast and Furious, we found that agents emphasized to the cooperating FFLs the value of their cooperation and sought additional cooperation that could be satisfied only by completing sales, at least giving the impression to these FFLs that ATF wanted the sales to continue. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf |
Response to former9thward (Reply #26)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:30 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
29. "at least the appearance"
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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:39 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
30. I think the only LOLing going on is people looking at your posts.
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I posted the link to the entire report. People can decide who to believe - you or the IG.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #30)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:47 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
34. Wrong choice. It's between fact and fiction...
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The article by Fortune blew the lid off of this whole thing.
That's why you don't hear about it anymore. Except for the cleanup on aisle 9.... |
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #34)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:54 PM
former9thward (6,654 posts)
37. So now the IG's report is right wing fiction??
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Ok. Aisle 9 for the tin foil hats.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #37)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:57 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
39. No, it's leaving and OUT to avoid criticism.
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:47 PM
pkdu (1,327 posts)
33. Yep, that phrase twice....and
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"at least the impression" too....
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Response to pkdu (Reply #33)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:56 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
38. That's legalese for "Not really".
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #24)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:03 PM
hack89 (21,561 posts)
40. True - just monumental incompetence
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that undoubtedly led to the deaths of people. People definitely deserve to go to jail for this.
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Response to hack89 (Reply #40)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:26 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (7,874 posts)
43. Why is it so hard for some people to realize they've been lied to?
Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:06 PM
underpants (105,663 posts)
18. LMELAO
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EverLoving
But then we all knew after the Fortune magazine article 3 months ago http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/ |

