Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:22 AM
jsr (3,530 posts)
Fanning furor, Justice Scalia says appeals court judge lied
Source: Reuters
(Reuters) - U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Monday escalated a war of words with a prominent appeals court judge, saying the judge lied in a recent criticism of Scalia's judicial philosophy. Scalia, 76, the longest-serving justice and a leading conservative on the court, said Judge Richard Posner, of the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, lied in a review in August of a book co-authored by Scalia. In the review, Posner accused Scalia of deviating from his own strict, text-based approach to interpreting law when he struck down a District of Columbia handgun ban in 2008 by considering the legislative history behind the law. "To say that I used legislative history is simply, to put it bluntly, a lie," Scalia said in an interview with Reuters Editor-in-Chief Stephen Adler. Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/us-usa-court-scalia-idUSBRE88H06X20120918
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41 replies, 5975 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| jsr | Sep 2012 | OP | |
| JRLeft | Sep 2012 | #1 | |
| freshwest | Sep 2012 | #2 | |
| WinstonSmith4740 | Sep 2012 | #9 | |
| rsdsharp | Sep 2012 | #27 | |
| WinstonSmith4740 | Sep 2012 | #36 | |
| progressoid | Sep 2012 | #13 | |
| OnyxCollie | Sep 2012 | #3 | |
| 1StrongBlackMan | Sep 2012 | #4 | |
| Skittles | Sep 2012 | #5 | |
| OnyxCollie | Sep 2012 | #6 | |
| elleng | Sep 2012 | #10 | |
| 1StrongBlackMan | Sep 2012 | #22 | |
| JudyM | Sep 2012 | #41 | |
| lonestarnot | Sep 2012 | #7 | |
| Hassin Bin Sober | Sep 2012 | #21 | |
| lonestarnot | Sep 2012 | #40 | |
| elleng | Sep 2012 | #8 | |
| msanthrope | Sep 2012 | #16 | |
| defacto7 | Sep 2012 | #11 | |
| StrictlyRockers | Sep 2012 | #12 | |
| LarryNM | Sep 2012 | #14 | |
| oldsarge54 | Sep 2012 | #15 | |
| Volaris | Sep 2012 | #18 | |
| oldsarge54 | Sep 2012 | #26 | |
| Dustlawyer | Sep 2012 | #17 | |
| trailmonkee | Sep 2012 | #19 | |
| ChairmanAgnostic | Sep 2012 | #20 | |
| 1StrongBlackMan | Sep 2012 | #23 | |
| ChairmanAgnostic | Sep 2012 | #32 | |
| 1StrongBlackMan | Sep 2012 | #35 | |
| elleng | Sep 2012 | #37 | |
| elleng | Sep 2012 | #31 | |
| annabanana | Sep 2012 | #24 | |
| annabanana | Sep 2012 | #25 | |
| onenote | Sep 2012 | #33 | |
| Ian David | Sep 2012 | #28 | |
| silvershadow | Sep 2012 | #29 | |
| former9thward | Sep 2012 | #38 | |
| zorro1 | Sep 2012 | #30 | |
| librechik | Sep 2012 | #34 | |
| Panasonic | Sep 2012 | #39 |
Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:24 AM
JRLeft (1,953 posts)
1. Just retire asshole.
Response to JRLeft (Reply #1)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:30 AM
freshwest (32,410 posts)
2. Yeah, the place needs some airing out, you stinking crook.
Response to JRLeft (Reply #1)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:07 AM
WinstonSmith4740 (743 posts)
9. Unfortunately...
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As much as I'd like to see that, after Obama wins in November, he won't. He'll never retire as long as Obama gets to name his successor. As long as there's a Democrat in the White House, they're going to have to carry him out.
He came in under Reagan, and I remember my husband being really uneasy about it. He always considered him kind of a "stealth" candidate. He came in under the radar 'cause he took Warren Burger's place on the court when Burger was made Chief Justice. It was viewed at the time as just one conservative replacing another, but in listening to the hearing, Mike realized then just how scary this guy could be. He was certainly right. |
Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #9)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:31 AM
rsdsharp (549 posts)
27. Burger was appointed by Nixon as Chief Justice
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When Burger retired, Associate Justice William Rehnquist was nominated to take his place, and Scalia took Rehnquist's.
On the DC Circuit Scalia voted to end the FCC's Fairness Doctrine. That decision led directly to the rise of right wing talk radio. |
Response to rsdsharp (Reply #27)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:41 PM
WinstonSmith4740 (743 posts)
36. Oops!
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Right you are! I though Nixon had just appointed him to the Supreme Court, but now that I think about it, didn't Reagan tempt Burger away with some big time job that made him retire so Rehnquist could step up? I just remember the whole thing being kind of creepy, especially the Fairness Doctrine being overturned. The Rethugs actually used the argument that demanding both sides of position be presented somehow gave people less information, or some such bullshit.
But then again, Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. |
Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:45 AM
OnyxCollie (6,744 posts)
3. Hey, Fat Nino!
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Vaffanculo!
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:48 AM
1StrongBlackMan (5,663 posts)
4. When I was in law school ...
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I remember reading Posner's Opinions and coming away thinking, "Okay, that makes sense" (whether I liked the outcome or not). More, his writings on Contracts, Torts and Federalism that helped me understand those areas of law ... I don't recall reading a single thing penned by Scalia.
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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #4)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:56 AM
Skittles (87,056 posts)
5. you'd remember puking if you had read Scalia, 1StrongBlackMan
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yes INDEED
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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #4)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:59 AM
OnyxCollie (6,744 posts)
6. I remember reading Scalia's opinion on Walmart v Dukes
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and thinking, "What a fucking dick head."
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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #4)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:09 AM
elleng (40,928 posts)
10. AND, Posner's been 'conservative,' an economist/judge,
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and VERY well respected, considered for Supremes over the years.
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Response to elleng (Reply #10)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:19 AM
1StrongBlackMan (5,663 posts)
22. Absolutely ...
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I learned to respect Posner's legal reasoning on matters that I was/am, politically, diametrically opposed to.
Since posting my original remark, I pulled, at random, 7 Opinions covering various topic, written by Scalia (while on the SCOTUS and the Appellate Court). After reading them, I was left with a feeling that he started with a desired result, then gathered law to support that result; rather than, what is customary (and proper), i.e., use the existing law to inform one's opinion. And from listening to him speak and reading other articles ... I get the distinction impression that he believes himself to be the smartest, most cunning, man in the universe. |
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #22)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:22 PM
JudyM (2,304 posts)
41. that's how he rolls. try reading his bowers v hardwick opinion
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so vitriolic and mean-spirited i'd never seen anything like it, seething with homophobic contempt, voting to uphold georgia's sodomy law using the bible for support!!! there's some strict construction for you.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:03 AM
lonestarnot (71,153 posts)
7. Can we get him more cholesterol for lunch?
Response to lonestarnot (Reply #7)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:04 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (8,723 posts)
21. We should send a case of Krispy Kremes every day to his office.
Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #21)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:11 PM
lonestarnot (71,153 posts)
40. LOL. mmmmmmmmmm
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:07 AM
elleng (40,928 posts)
8. POSNER???
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Sounds like tony's losing it!
"First Monday of October" coming up!!! |
Response to elleng (Reply #8)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 07:00 AM
msanthrope (16,906 posts)
16. Yep...attacking Posner is not a well-balanced move. nt
Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:58 AM
defacto7 (3,616 posts)
11. what we need is an Obama landslide, a senate majority
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and a congressional majority... impeach a couple of these fascists for treason or bad lunch choices, and get on with getting this country free and sound.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 02:20 AM
StrictlyRockers (1,826 posts)
12. That guys is a royal prick.
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He can't retire soon enough.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 02:55 AM
LarryNM (267 posts)
14. Term Limits on SCOTUS Members Along with
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strict controls on Senate Filibusters and abolition of the Electoral College. Perhaps if this nation does not do these things, then the nation that replaces it will.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 05:47 AM
oldsarge54 (582 posts)
15. Mr Justice,
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I've got a copy of your comments on District of Columbia vs Heller. You sir, are the one standing on an untruth.
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Response to oldsarge54 (Reply #15)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:41 AM
Volaris (1,594 posts)
18. No shit. I read that opinion, (and actually thought it was a rare decent one by Fat Tony)
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Last edited Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:42 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) but to state that he did NOT in fact, cite legislative, common law history going back to pre-colonial Britain is just a straight-up LIE. (Maybe he's starting to go senile as he progresses in years?) To rip into a fellow Justice over this strikes me as juvenile and unprofessional. You'd think a Supreme Court Justice (OF ALL fucking people) would have developed a thicker hide...
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Response to Volaris (Reply #18)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
oldsarge54 (582 posts)
26. I'm Not a Lawyer
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Just a retired GI and school teacher, but I wonder how he just deleted the first 13 words of the 27 words in the 2nd Amendment? That's 40% of the whole amendment struck out of the record. (40.9%) Then again, I'm no legal beagle, I didn't follow his logic.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:31 AM
Dustlawyer (1,436 posts)
17. His ego is what makes him talk, give interviews. The man could not be more full of himself if he
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tried! As far as him being a Koch sucker along with his own mini-me, Clarence Thomas, that's for the money and a suck up to POWER! He loves the affirmation he gets when he does a good job for those rich bastards.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:54 AM
trailmonkee (2,605 posts)
19. they should keep their comments to the court or formal papers, that would be the class move...
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this war of words stuff is unbecoming
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:54 AM
ChairmanAgnostic (24,055 posts)
20. I've read three books by Posner. I've appeared before him in court. I've read his opinions.
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In a battle of wits, or in this case, a wit and a halfwit, Scalia will be the clear loser.
Posner recently had a change of heart, especially in the battles between the little guy and big, bad corporations (including employers). He will be shaping some new law, I suspect. |
Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #20)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:25 AM
1StrongBlackMan (5,663 posts)
23. I argued before Posner? ...
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Wow! There are few individuals in this world whose mere presense would rattle me ... Posner would be one of them. It would be like being a cornerback trying to cover a receiver whose Football Card, one refused to trade.
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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #23)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:08 PM
ChairmanAgnostic (24,055 posts)
32. actually, the panel just wanted me to sit down and shut up.
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the facts and the law were so clearly on my client's side, that I probably said to much as it was. Nervous? ewe betcha.
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Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #32)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:48 PM
1StrongBlackMan (5,663 posts)
35. Oops ...
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I meant to write "You" argued before Posner. But I guess you understood.
the facts and the law were so clearly on my client's side, that I probably said to much as it was.
I'm sure you've heard: "If the law is on your side ... pound the law. If the facts are on your side ... pound the facts. If neither, the law nor the facts are on your side pound the table and talk real loud." So now we can add: "If both the law and the facts are on your side ... Shut the heck up; while the panel pounds your opponent!" |
Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #32)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:36 PM
elleng (40,928 posts)
37. I recall arguing before 7th Circuit,
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appointed case, not long after admission, and thought: If I can do THIS, I can do ANYTHING!!!
I did, Court thanked me for my 'service,' and client lost. No idea WHO was on the panel. Was in mid-'70s. |
Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #20)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:45 PM
elleng (40,928 posts)
31. Will be very good to see,
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as he's a fine jurist and very good writer.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:27 AM
annabanana (45,794 posts)
24. Scalia is a pig.
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He desecrates the robes he wears.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
annabanana (45,794 posts)
25. Posner... Obama's next appointee?
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Suck it Tony.
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Response to annabanana (Reply #25)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
onenote (22,032 posts)
33. Bad idea for several reasons
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Not the least of which is that Posner is 73 years old. Also, despite the fawning over him by some on this thread, one should keep in mind that Posner was comrade in arms with none other than Robert Bork in developing a legal theory that effectively guts antitrust law. And he dissented from a decision that struck down on first amendment grounds a law that made it illegal to videotape public events, such as an arrest, without consent of those being taped.
We can do better. |
Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
Ian David (68,663 posts)
28. Didn't Scalia say that the line about "a well-regulated militia" is just a "rhetorical flourish?" nt
Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:55 AM
silvershadow (1,596 posts)
29. I'm no lawyer. Is that, by chance, an impeachable offense in some way? I keep waiting for
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him to finally snap in some impeachable way.
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Response to silvershadow (Reply #29)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:15 PM
former9thward (6,649 posts)
38. No criticism is not impeachable.
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Nor is name calling or anything like that. No Supreme Court Justice has ever been impeached and convicted in the country's history. There have been many attempts but none have ever gotten anywhere.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:38 PM
zorro1 (26 posts)
30. Scalias days are numbered
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It won't be long before this sweaty, obese GOP insider falls over dead. Our country will be better off and hopefully his mid evil judicial philosophy will go with him.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:40 PM
librechik (25,161 posts)
34. it says something when a clear conservative is at war with a nutbag conservative.
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I await the conclusion with little hope and much amusement.
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Response to jsr (Original post)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:16 PM
Panasonic (2,921 posts)
39. I'm sure the esteemed jurist that Posner is, will hand a nice smackdown to Scalia
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after a recent history of Bush v Gore.
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