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Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:35 PM

Jay-Z knocks Occupy Wall Street

Source: New York Daily News

Jay-Z says Occupy Wall Street had a fatal flaw: Its 99 messages.

The legendary rapper, in a new interview, says he never threw his support behind the protest movement because he didnít understand what it stood for.

ďWhatís the thing on the wall, what are you fighting for?Ē Jay-Z told The New York Times in a wide-ranging interview.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music-arts/jay-z-knocks-occupy-wall-street-article-1.1155236#ixzz261wwUsgC

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music-arts/jay-z-knocks-occupy-wall-street-article-1.1155236

117 replies, 18263 views

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Arrow 117 replies Author Time Post
Reply Jay-Z knocks Occupy Wall Street (Original post)
Pterodactyl Sep 2012 OP
zappaman Sep 2012 #1
Mojorabbit Sep 2012 #7
6000eliot Sep 2012 #38
harmonicon Sep 2012 #81
Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #44
FailureToCommunicate Sep 2012 #45
Hissyspit Sep 2012 #16
fasttense Sep 2012 #29
abelenkpe Sep 2012 #57
tama Sep 2012 #89
randome Sep 2012 #96
tama Sep 2012 #98
Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #103
proverbialwisdom Sep 2012 #70
randome Sep 2012 #71
proverbialwisdom Sep 2012 #73
adigal Sep 2012 #75
randome Sep 2012 #78
adigal Sep 2012 #94
Bjorn Against Sep 2012 #2
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #37
Panasonic Sep 2012 #3
midnight Sep 2012 #13
LovingA2andMI Sep 2012 #4
JRLeft Sep 2012 #10
LovingA2andMI Sep 2012 #17
loli phabay Sep 2012 #77
NJCher Sep 2012 #5
pitbullgirl1965 Sep 2012 #6
Major Hogwash Sep 2012 #111
OnyxCollie Sep 2012 #8
RoccoR5955 Sep 2012 #9
U4ikLefty Sep 2012 #11
harmonicon Sep 2012 #82
U4ikLefty Sep 2012 #115
harmonicon Sep 2012 #117
TomClash Sep 2012 #12
qanda Sep 2012 #14
LovingA2andMI Sep 2012 #18
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #15
proverbialwisdom Sep 2012 #72
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #76
harmonicon Sep 2012 #83
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #85
harmonicon Sep 2012 #86
Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #87
harmonicon Sep 2012 #88
Major Hogwash Sep 2012 #112
craigmatic Sep 2012 #19
2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #35
craigmatic Sep 2012 #58
2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #92
tama Sep 2012 #99
2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #105
tama Sep 2012 #106
2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #107
tama Sep 2012 #108
randome Sep 2012 #109
tama Sep 2012 #110
randome Sep 2012 #113
tama Sep 2012 #114
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #39
daleanime Sep 2012 #65
sendero Sep 2012 #69
tama Sep 2012 #90
lexw Sep 2012 #20
Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #26
2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #36
Tom Ripley Sep 2012 #21
limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #22
think Sep 2012 #23
Bigredhunk Sep 2012 #24
Quantess Sep 2012 #28
randome Sep 2012 #31
Quantess Sep 2012 #32
RandiFan1290 Sep 2012 #33
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #40
randome Sep 2012 #46
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #47
randome Sep 2012 #50
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #55
Tarheel_Dem Sep 2012 #25
RandiFan1290 Sep 2012 #27
lunatica Sep 2012 #30
OneGrassRoot Sep 2012 #34
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #42
OneGrassRoot Sep 2012 #43
JackRiddler Sep 2012 #48
harun Sep 2012 #41
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2012 #49
randome Sep 2012 #51
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2012 #54
randome Sep 2012 #56
tama Sep 2012 #91
randome Sep 2012 #95
tama Sep 2012 #97
randome Sep 2012 #100
tama Sep 2012 #104
harun Sep 2012 #62
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2012 #63
harmonicon Sep 2012 #84
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2012 #93
awoke_in_2003 Sep 2012 #52
NOLALady Sep 2012 #53
coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #59
NICO9000 Sep 2012 #60
truebrit71 Sep 2012 #61
Dash87 Sep 2012 #64
shanti Sep 2012 #66
and-justice-for-all Sep 2012 #67
proverbialwisdom Sep 2012 #68
adigal Sep 2012 #74
LittleBlue Sep 2012 #79
JI7 Sep 2012 #80
The Stranger Sep 2012 #101
Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #102
The Midway Rebel Sep 2012 #116

Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:42 PM

1. He's right.

But supporters of Occupy will tell you not having a leader and a lack of focus are good things.
It's a shame that all that energy was squandered.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:04 PM

7. Truly, I think it was pretty clear what occupy stood for.


It was the media who had some sort of problem reporting it. At least that is what I think.
Peace.
Mojorabbit

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:08 AM

38. My theory is that people who don't get it are part of what they are protesting.

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Response to 6000eliot (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 01:03 AM

81. Theory? I don't think there's much theory behind that - I think that's just about a statement...

of fact.

That said, it's for that very reason that I think the occupations were/are doomed to failure.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:32 AM

44. +1

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:06 AM

45. Yup, that toon pretty much nails it.

thanks for finding it again.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:56 PM

16. He's an asshole hypocrite.

Tried to make a buck ripping off the movement and then got annoyed that he was called out.

He's not right about much.

Whatever faults the movement might have had (considering what they were up against), they accomplished some amazing things and he sounds like a piece of shit arguing from deliberate ignorance

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 06:06 AM

29. There are many rich people who think the same thing.

So, I recommend Zay-Z hook up with the Koch Brothers, the Waltons and the Teabaggers and tells us all who the leaders of the Teabaggers are.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:28 PM

57. Their message was clear. Their rejection of political process

By refusing to endorsing candidates who could help them change the system from the inside is what creates confusion. I still have hope for Occupy getting something together. Their most memorable moment for me was when the pilots stood with them in NY.

Also was never comfortable with the paulites that were involved trying to influence occupy.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:23 AM

89. Our message

 

is not to give legitimacy to the corrupt power hierarchy by asking it to address a concern. The message is participatory democracy, not just in theory but in practice. We are inclusive global grass roots revolutionary movement manifesting in many forms, such as OWS, and much of what we relearn about democracy comes from indigenous people and is as old as humanity. Our message is that rather than trying to fix the problem, we should stop causing it. Our message is love and respect.

Partisan and sectarian attempts of co-opting, dividing and taming this revolution come from all sides and from inside, that is nothing new and it's all in vain, because this revolution is not about being in full agreement but about learning creative and peaceful ways of disagreeing for mutual benefit. Democracy.

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Response to tama (Reply #89)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:33 AM

96. Huh?

A lot of wishy-washy, multi-syllabic nonsense you've got there. It doesn't matter how 'correct' something sounds, how can you translate that into actual results?

The world is not going to suddenly start behaving better because you want it to.

Concrete. Results.

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Response to randome (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:54 AM

98. If you want the wold to start behaving better

 

be the change you want. Can't get any more concrete than that.

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Response to randome (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:46 AM

103. Yeah people only get elected and stuff by being really specific about concrete plans which always

deliver results as promised! Look at Mitch Romney, so exactingly clear about how his ideas translate into actual results, and Obama, why it's not like he got where he is saying 'Hope and Change' or anything...

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:10 PM

70. DU Homepage and the NYT front page TODAY detail two tragic examples of leaders targeted / harmed.

Maybe you missed the reports. The 'leaderless' diss is as clueless as the other remark.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021313360

An environmental hero died yesterday and no one seems to be paying attention.

Last edited Mon Sep 10, 2012, 04:20 PM USA/ET


His name was Larry Gibson... And he fought to raise awareness and stop the practice of mountain-top removal mining until the day he died, even as coal supporters shot up his house, killed his dog, ran his truck off the road, and threatened his life almost constantly.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/world/asia/killing-of-bangladesh-labor-leader-spotlights-grievances-of-workers.html?pagewanted=all

Fighting for Bangladesh Labor, and Ending Up in Pauperís Grave

By JIM YARDLEY
Published online: September 9, 2012
Published September 10, 2012 (print edition, A1)


ASHULIA, Bangladesh ó His tiny office was lost among the hulking garment factories that churn out cargo pants or polo shirts for brands like Gap or Tommy Hilfiger, yet workers managed to find Aminul Islam. They came with problems. Unpaid wages. Abusive bosses. Mr. Islam, a labor organizer, fought for their rights.

Security forces found Mr. Islam, too. His phone was tapped, the police regularly harassed him, and domestic intelligence agents once abducted and beat him, his co-workers and family say. More than once, he was told his advocacy for workers was hurting a country where garment exports drive the domestic economy.

And then no one could find Mr. Islam.

He disappeared April 4. Days later, his family discovered that he had been tortured and killed. His murder bore a grim familiarity in a country with a brutal legacy of politically motivated killings, and it raised a troubling question: Was he killed for trying to organize workers?

Five months later, Mr. Islamís killing remains under investigation. There have been no arrests in the case, and the police say they have made little progress.

<...>


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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #70)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:21 PM

71. So what's your answer, then?

Without a leader, OWS has faded like a soap bubble. With a leader, you claim they would all be assassinated or something.

The 1% were never afraid of OWS. They sat in their beach front homes sipping margaritas same as always while OWS got mired down in eternal camping rights instead of keeping the focus on income inequality.

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Response to randome (Reply #71)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:11 PM

73. I claimed nothing, I observed what frequently occurs illustrated by a pair of tragedies today.

I think you've got it all wrong. Check out the recent NYT article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/t-magazine/gene-sharp-theorist-of-power.html?ref=todayspaper

The Quiet American
Talk | By JANINE DI GIOVANNI | September 9, 2012


"Frst they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win."
- Gandhi

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:25 PM

75. How was it squandered? Almost everyone I know talks about the 1% now

They changed the conversation.

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Response to adigal (Reply #75)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 11:08 PM

78. So did 'Star Wars'. BFD.

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Response to randome (Reply #78)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:02 AM

94. Thank you for the intelligent rejoinder. :) nt

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:48 PM

2. It is really not too shocking that someone who writes lyrics like this doesn't get it...

In the Ferrari or Jaguar switchin four lanes
With the top down screamin out
Money ain't a thang

Bubble hard in the double R flashin the rings
With the window cracked holler back
Money ain't a thang

Jigga I don't like it if it don't gleam clean
And to hell with the price
cause the money ain't a thang

Put it down hard for my dogs that's locked in the bang
When you hit the bricks, new whips
Money ain't a thang

Come on, y'all wanna floss wit us
Cause all across the ball we burn it up
Drop a little paper, baby toss it up
Ya slackin on your pimpin, turn it up
See the money ain't a thang

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:03 AM

37. It's easy not to get it when you don't want to get it.

With lyrics like that, he doesn't want to get it.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:49 PM

3. The rapper is unforutunately part of the 1%

 

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:23 PM

13. Clearly- He is attempting to profit off of the first important social movement in 50 yrs.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:52 PM

4. Three Thoughts

One-Jay Z is the 1%

Two-Jay Z initially tried to PROFIT off Occupy Wall Street-http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jay-z-occupy-wall-street-shirts-removed-260830

Three-JayZ is a part of the Illuminati

In other words... to Jay Z's thoughts or opinions.

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:17 PM

10. You believe in the Illuminati bull shit?

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Response to JRLeft (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:57 PM

17. Yep...sure do.

Plus Jay Z is NO FRIEND to Occupy Wall Street, the 99% or the 95% for that instance either.

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:56 PM

77. i nodded twice then went wtf, kinda lost me on point three

 

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 10:55 PM

5. read the comments

Not very sympathetic to Jaye-Z.

People are asking where his research skills are.

Which is a good question. For somebody who supposedly thinks things through in an original way, his response to OWS is superficial.

One thing to remember about Jaye-Z is that he started his own ball rolling. He made CDs of his music and sold them out of the trunk of his car.

Thus I sometimes wonder if he thinks he "built it."

In the semester from last spring, I had a student who was puzzled by the OWS movement and who wanted to figure it out, so he chose this as his research paper topic. Eventually his paper developed into an exploration of leaderless movements in the history of social movements and change.

Which leaves the question: if my 20-year old student can do some research, why can't Jaye?


Cher


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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:01 PM

6. But he had no problem

co opting the message with his Occupy all streets T-shirts now did he?
He's part of the 1% anyway

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Response to pitbullgirl1965 (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:36 PM

111. Yup.

He probably couldn't unload all of those t-shirts.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:05 PM

8. He can rhyme.

Do I expect him to understand the naked class situation? No. Nor do I expect most people to understand the naked class situation, even here.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:07 PM

9. This is news coming from the 1%?

I don't think so, nor do I agree with him.
Everyone with a brain knows what Occupy is fighting for.
Yes IS fighting for. Just because the media hasn't reported them, doesn't mean that they (we) are doing nothing.
As a matter of fact I believe there are a couple of Occupiers running for Congress this time around!

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:18 PM

11. I'll take Tom Morello over jay-zzz

Tom knows what's up

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Response to U4ikLefty (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 01:10 AM

82. HAHA. Irony is funny. (nt)

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #82)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 01:20 AM

115. show me the irony

Morello has shown up with no fanfare to give Occupy a boost MANY-a-time.

I have talked with him personally & he is cool.

jay-zzz wouldn't let you get within 1000 yards of his fucking limo...because he's a king!!!

again, where is the irony?

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Response to U4ikLefty (Reply #115)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 03:39 AM

117. Pointing this out is like explaining to someone who doesn't understand humour why a joke is funny.

Ugh... I just can't do it. Rage on, dude.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:22 PM

12. New Rule

You can't call yourself Jay-Z if you don't ride the train anymore.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:43 PM

14. What I don't get is...

Why is this, or anything Jay-Z says or does, in LBN?

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Response to qanda (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:59 PM

18. THIS ^^^^

Good question.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:51 PM

15. Owns the Nets, Roc-a-Fella and has a net worth in the millions

Rapping and talking about how good he is.

Egotistical asshat. Put up or shut up. I have never seen one rapper do anything except USE their upbringing to enrich themselves.

Oh, your music sucks ass too, Shawn!

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:22 PM

72. Eminem - MOSH

Tour bus accident, cancellation of European tour... look it up.

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:38 PM

76. One example of a rapper with a social conscience is the exception, not the rule

Birdman, DMX, LL Cool J, 2pac, Biggie, Rick Ross. . .none of these people care. Even Kanye doesn't really give a rat's ass.

Jay-Z is another example.

So Eminem and the Black Eyed Peas have social consciences. . .I don't see the rest doing anything.

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #76)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 01:12 AM

83. As opposed to other types of musicians? (nt)

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 02:04 AM

85. Gordon Lightfoot, Queen, Harry Chapin, Phil Ochs, Pink, RATM, Harry Belafonte, John Denver

Just to name of a few none hip-hop.

Eminem sings "Mosh" and that's it? Public Enemy did more than that.

Give me a few hip-hop artists with some resemblance of a social conscience that don't use the things they rap about as a way to make "fat stacks."

Sorry. . .hip hop used to be socially redeeming. Now, it's all a product placement ego trip.

Jay-Z sold out and tried to make money off the Occupy movement.

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #85)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:15 AM

86. Yeah... and old and/or dead people are relevant to Jay-Z how?

Complaining about hip-hop is the polite way for white people to insult black culture.

I don't know jack-squat about any type of current popular music, but I do know music and musicians well. When discussing genres as vague as hip-hop or rock, there's very little to be gleaned about a general zeitgeist from looking at one performer.

John Denver flew his plane into a mountain... ergo folk musicians and/or those who make albums with the muppets will fly themselves into mountains? Such is the state of folk and/or muppet music.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #86)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:19 AM

87. nice false strawman.

I am now insulting black culture.

On ignore, pal.

"I don't know jack-squat about any type of current popular music," Yet you act like an expert on it.

Dismissed.

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #87)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:22 AM

88. Yep, that's what I thought. You can't answer questions.

You: one example of a rapper with a social conscience is the exception.

Me: Care to elaborate?

You: lalalala I'm not listening to this.

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Response to Suji to Seoul (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:37 PM

112. He was only in it for the benjamins.

You can bet on that.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)


Response to craigmatic (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:42 AM

35. maybe you should have joined them

instead of just complaining about them. Complaining about shit and posting on sites isn't enough.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:39 PM

58. Says the guy complaining about shit and posting on sites too.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:54 AM

92. I did join them. I did camp at Zuccotti.

So I complain about shit, post on sites, and put my 50+ year old ass on the concrete.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #92)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:56 AM

99. Hope you had fun

 

you and your 50+ year old ass!

(if the revolution ain't fun, don't do it )

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Response to tama (Reply #99)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:57 PM

105. We did have fun

and met some great people! We would really like to go back for the anniversary party but I don't think we can afford to go.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #105)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 01:07 PM

106. The fun has just begun

 

the way I see it, Chicago strike is direct continuation of Occupy movement. First people learn to self-organize in a fun and and decent way, creating the political body. That happened year ago and is still going on, as it's open process. Then the real challenging of the system begins. Strikes.

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Response to tama (Reply #106)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:08 PM

107. Chicago is a nice little trip for us

We made it for the Nato protest. It might be a nice little one day trip to support the strike. We can take the train.

Agreed the Chicago strike is a continuation.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #107)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:28 PM

108. I read somewhere

 

that CTU has long time ago asked Occupy! to organize a public assembly in support for the strike.

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Response to tama (Reply #106)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:39 PM

109. Remember what I said about hyperbole and exaggeration re: OWS?

"Chicago strike is direct continuation of Occupy movement".

and

"First people learn to self-organize".

Um, unions learned to do that a LONG time ago.

This is why few people 'believe' in OWS. Over-the-top characterizations like yours.

I'm sure the union had little to do with their decision to strike.

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Response to randome (Reply #109)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:24 PM

110. Self-organizing

 

I'm not interested in your attempt to frame the situation into OWS vs. Unions. It is anything but.

Self-organizing is a continuous creative process, not just something our forfathers did. CTU was radicalized and ready to strike by electing a new leadership of rank-and-file teachers instead of more traditional "professional" union bosses, and by possibly most democratic (small d) decision making procedures of all current unions. In a word, they self-organized democratically and that way found the unity and cohesion and back bone that voted amazing 98% for strike of 90% voting - to the astonishment of the corporate Dems who trusted that their anti-union laws would stop any and all strikes in Chicago (requiring 70% of Union membership voting for strike to make it legal).

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Response to tama (Reply #110)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:43 PM

113. I am NOT trying to pit OWS versus unions.

I object to your characterization that OWS is responsible for the Chicago strike. As I said before, if OWS is helping the union, more power to them.

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Response to randome (Reply #113)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:44 PM

114. That's a mischaracterization

 

I said continuation, which is a temporal relation, not "responsible for". Both are parts of the same larger global movement.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:09 AM

39. The Tea Party didn't infiltrate shit.

They already were the right-wing Republican base. To revive the Republicans after their 2008 defeat, they were rebranded as the brand new "Tea Party" using hundreds of millions of dollars flowing from the top-down into an astroturf "movement." The media enabled this by covering it as if it was a new thing, even though there was nothing, nothing in the Tea Party "program" that wasn't already Republican creed.

As for moving the Democrats to the left - for starters, have a look at how easy it is on this site.

Occupy accomplished more with street protests, and that is the message: the system is too corrupt to work only within it. Politicians won't do shit without popular pressure from outside the system. Mass street protests are unavoidable.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 04:07 PM

65. Amen.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:50 PM

69. Yeah..

..... so TPTB can take him out.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:38 AM

90. We are many voices and opinions and experiences

 

We do not only speak, even more importantly, we listen, we let the voices and experiences of others to occupy our ears, our hearts and minds. In the practice of democracy we are relearning each of us has power block a consensus, to veto a suggestion that is not good for our community as whole.

All suggestions of our grass roots revolution becoming the Democratic wing of the teaparty have been listened to, heard and blocked and will be blocked, no consensus will be found for that suggestion.

If you are looking for pro-Occupy candidates in the party politics, they are free to run and many do.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:37 AM

20. Say what you want...

but the Occupy movement woke up a lot of people, and gave a meaning to the terms 1% and 99%. Plus, I think it's what is helping Obama win.

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Response to lexw (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 05:52 AM

26. +1,000 ! 99% and 1% are now an integral part of the political dialogue--thanks to OWS!

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Response to lexw (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:46 AM

36. It sure as hell did.

I see people wondering what happened> What changed? And I have to ask,"weren't u watching?" I mean it's obvious that things started changing when the meme of the 99% was taken up.

We know where that meme came from.

Occupiers, by refusing to obey and camping where they were told they could not stay, is what got them the attention and started bringing the disparity of the classes and the mother fuckerness of the uber rich, to light.

Occupy changed this world. Period.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 01:18 AM

21. Blezz hiz heart

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 02:02 AM

22. Fuck it man, I won the rap lottery! Capitalism rulz!

But I wouldn't be surprised if this newspaper took his words out of context either.


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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 02:27 AM

23. Perhaps 12 years of receiving those Bush tax cuts has made him

utterly fucking stupid or more likely he just doesn't care.....

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 03:39 AM

24. Never Understood This Talking Point

That OWS had no clear message. Were they laser-like in their precision on that front? No. But I don't think it takes a genius to realize what they were protesting...corporations and the wealthy elite running away with the country, leaving everyone else to fed for themselves.

It just became a popular rw & media talking point, that the people didn't know what they were fighting for. Total b.s. The OWS movement didn't have kock money and groups behind it. Their perseverance was very impressive. It was regular people camping out in a tent for 6 months. Compare that with the crusty freaks at the tp rallies, who just sit in their scooters for 2 hours spouting nonsense and then roll on home.

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Response to Bigredhunk (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 06:05 AM

28. It didn't matter how often it was explained to anyone who asked, either.

The complaints were very cogently stated for anyone who cared to understand.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 07:18 AM

31. So you're saying no one cared. Right?

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Response to randome (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:10 AM

32. Sigh. What is is with DUers who insert their own meanings and assume the worst?

Not just you. This is really common at the DU. If I meant nobody cared I would have said so.

No, that is not what I am saying. I did not mean that No one cared. I did not mean that No one bothered to take 30 seconds to hear the rationale for OWS.

The media pundits who repeated the meme "what do they want, what are they about? I don't get it, blah-de-blah" had the information readily available to them, they just chose to not pay attention. This sentiment rubbed off onto RW leaning viewers.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:14 AM

33. Just doing their job...

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Response to Quantess (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:12 AM

40. The poster you are responding to...

seems to exist on this site for the sole purpose of trashing OWS 24/7, using all of the standard corporate media and RW talking points and whatever cheap sophistry is at hand. Nothing you say will make a difference. FYI.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:20 AM

46. Talk about sophistry. 1984 posts in 90 days and hardly any threads about OWS in that time.

The difference between us is that I don't cast aspersions on your motives or your character. It always seems to be the die-hard OWS supporters who want to be angry at their fellow DUers.

I wonder why that is.

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Response to randome (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:03 PM

47. Did you find any threads about OWS...

in which you did not run in to engage in these cheap assassination tactics?

A look at your responses on OWS threads shows you transparently out to defame Occupy by whatever means, it hardly needs emphasis.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:13 PM

50. Feel free to post my questions and conclusions here, if you wish.

I have nothing to hide. If asking questions and advocating that OWS needed to focus equals 'defame' in your eyes, I don't think you are very objective.

As for myself, as I've often said, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. I just want to see things for how they really are.

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Response to randome (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:27 PM

55. Of course you have nothing to hide.

You're busy on every OWS thread you find.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 05:12 AM

25. Sadly, he's only saying what most of the country thinks. nt

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 05:56 AM

27. Jay-Z and the DU trolls

I remember the taunts from the trolls about Occupy starting on a Saturday. They said it wouldn't last through that weekend. After that they had to find new excuses to trash us.

Great reading if anyone cares to search back for it
September 17, 2011

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 07:08 AM

30. I got their message loud and clear

Whether they continue to be effective is another thing. But never underestimate the concept they defined regarding the 1% and the 99%. Without that idea we'd all still be floundering in the dark trying to understand a very complex issue. The Occupy movement was able to pull together the ills of our government and society in one phrase. Occupy Wall Street. The retaliation against them was and is brutal.

I believe they have changed the fundamental way we perceive our society and that's no easy feat. Hopefully it will have a national rebirth after the elections are over. Right now the Presidential campaigns are sucking the air out of everything else.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 08:36 AM

34. IT'S SIMPLE (Russell Simmons explains to people like Jay-Z):



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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #34)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:13 AM

42. Hmm, Russell Simmons or Jay Z?

Which would you expect to know what the hell he's talking about?

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:19 AM

43. It's not a matter of having faith that either of them know.

I, personally, know that this statement -- which happens to be conveyed by Russell Simmons -- is truth.

I believe people are disingenuous when they act like they don't know what OWS is about. To say they don't understand EVERYTHING is reasonable, but to act like they're clueless as to what OWS is upset about is disingenuous for any thinking, even moderately informed person, in my opinion.




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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:09 PM

48. As you say.

Still, no surprise to see Simmons on one side and Jay-Z on the other.

It takes a lot of disingenuity for anyone with a functioning brain to even hear the name - Occupy Wall Street - and not understand what it's about. It takes blindness to the money-power in this country ("Wall Street"). And to the systemic injustice and corruption that make mass street protests necessary and inevitable ("Occupy").

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 09:13 AM

41. Jay-Z like all 1%'rs wishes they could make OWS go away

But those paying attention know very clearly what OWS is about.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:10 PM

49. Jay-Z is absolutely right! Occupy targeted the wrong people. It would have been more

effective had it targeted the Republican members of Congress!

There were too many messages, not enough focus.

If you want change, you need to target the people responsible for obstructing it. Those people are Republicans in Congress.

Just as the Teabaggers did, Occupy should have been on the steps of Congress from Day 1.

I work right down the street from the Capitol, and sure there may have been some Occupiers, but for the most part, the Occupy Movement was absent.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:16 PM

51. To be fair, the teabaggers have only succeeded in eviscerating the GOP.

So I don't think they are a good example. But whatever is the answer, it's obvious OWS is not it.

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Response to randome (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:23 PM

54. I agree. But I would have liked to see the OWS movement target Wall Street and those who

aid Wall Street in the halls of Congress. That goes for coward, Corporatist Democrats as well.

I'm sure Jay-Z is a hypocrite, but he's not entirely off the mark here.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:27 PM

56. Both those things can be true, can't they?

The 'Wall Street' part of OWS seemed to have gotten lost in the shuffle early on. Parts of OWS kept up the good fight but there wasn't enough momentum to sustain it.

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:49 AM

91. Teachers are striking

 

and not for money but a political strike against neoliberal agenda. I call that sustained momentum.

The authoritarian left in need of "leadership" has the same problem with democracy that all authoritarians do.

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Response to tama (Reply #91)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:31 AM

95. Chicago strike has what to do with OWS?

Or do you want to imply that I'm anti-union because I question OWS' effectiveness?

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Response to randome (Reply #95)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:51 AM

97. CTU is allied with Occupy Chicago

 

Their membership which voted 98% for strike and recently changed union leadership has been radicalized and empowered by the change in political climate that OWS signified and signalled, and in preparation for this political strike they have further strengthened their close ties of solidarity with Occupy Chicago and other grass roots movements for vital community support in the struggle against neoliberal policies of both parties.

Remember Oaxaca.

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Response to tama (Reply #97)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:19 AM

100. Most claims of OWS involvement are typically overblown.

We have heard in the recent past how OWS is responsible for the Arab Spring and is growing in ever-increasing numbers despite all the evidence to the contrary.

If an OWS group has anything to do with helping the teachers in Chicago, more power to them. But I'm sure you can appreciate the need for skepticism.

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Response to randome (Reply #100)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:07 PM

104. It's not "if"

 

First of all, CTU members recently kicked out old union bosses and chose new leadership, which are not "union bosses" but teachers. It's changed from a "traditional" union more into a grass roots social movement itself. Here's some material from my search for relations between Chicago teachers and Occupy movement:

On June 26, The Chicago Teachers Union joined forces with Occupy Chicago in an effort to, according to Occupy Chicago Labor Working Group leader Susan Dirr, begin the process of building solidarity for the CTU. Their reasoning: instead of reacting to a blow, they want to prepare a preemptive attack against CPS and Rahm Emanuel.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12523543

CTU members--who include not just teachers, but office staff and aides--are acutely aware that they're taking a stand in President Barack Obama's hometown on the eve of a close election. But rather than being intimidated, they're determined--and the rally gave expression to the same feelings of anger and defiance seen in last year's labor uprising in Wisconsin and the height of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
(...)
Even so, the effort to keep the schools open linked the CTU more closely with activist networks like Teachers for Social Justice and community groups like the Kenwood-Oakland Community Organization and Occupy Chicago. Together, KOCO and Occupy activists organized a "mic check" that succeeded in shutting down a Board of Education meeting. The school closures, which had been a routine story given perfunctory media attention, became a major issue.
(...)
Two unions stand out for their level of activism. One is Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) Local 241, which represents city bus drivers. Last fall, Local 241 allied with Occupy Chicago to fight attacks on their union.

The other is National Nurses United/National Nurses Organizing Committee (NNU), which represents nurses at Stroger Hospital, the main public health care facility in Cook County, which has also allied with Occupy. When NNU members volunteered to provide medical assistance to Occupy Chicago, Emanuel made an example of them by having them arrested and jailed longer than other activists. Significantly, activists from the ATU, NNU and CTU unions held a solidarity dinner to forge closer ties for the battles ahead.

Another key public-sector union notable for its activism is the Chicago branch of the National Association of Letter Carriers, which has developed ties with Occupy and labor activists in the fight against mass postal facility closures and job losses. A key labor-community coalition, Stand Up Chicago, initiated by the SEIU, has worked closely with the CTU and Occupy, too--as has Chicago Jobs with Justice, the longstanding coalition that's played a pivotal role in local labor solidarity efforts. ARISE Chicago, a religious coalition committed to workers' rights, will be key in reaching out to churches.

All this sets the stage for labor solidarity efforts with the CTU. The potential for such an effort was on display in January, when the Occupy Chicago Labor Working Group hosted a "Workers' Power" labor solidarity conference that drew 250 leaders and rank-and-file activists from a range of unions. It was already clear then that the CTU was heading toward a collision with Emanuel, and support for the teachers' union was a major theme of the event.
(...)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101641476

Chicago Teachers Union's Jesse Sharkey on Occupy Chicago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101756875

Occupy Chicago Rebel Arts Collective: Solidarity With Chicago Teachers: For the Schools (and Art) Our Kids Deserve!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101641467

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 02:39 PM

62. Sigh

Missing the point.

Blue Dog Dem's have done just as much harm to progress as the Republican members of Congress have.

It's about the system not the actors.

The people in Congress are just the representatives of the 1%. They bring forward legislation from the 1%'s think tanks. They vote favorable for the wars the 1% ask it to.

You do not live in a Democracy. You live in a Corporate Representative Republic. OWS is shining light on that and is against it.

If OWS picked one message, or one person to represent itself, the Corporate Media would have twisted and destorted both in a matter of days. It's what they do.

OWS is proceeding in the only way it can.

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Response to harun (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 03:41 PM

63. ABSOLUTELY!! Look at my response above. Corporatist Democrats have indeed been

a major problem!!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #49)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 01:17 AM

84. HAHAHA!!! You're fucking hilarious!! Do you have a standup routine I could watch?! (nt)

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #84)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:00 AM

93. Why thank you!! :)

...and welcome to IGNORE!!

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:19 PM

52. Says a man...

Who makes a living out of objectifying women in music videos.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:21 PM

53. I really do believe

he does not understand.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:55 PM

59. Who is Jay-Z and why should I give a fuck what he thinks or says? - n/t

 

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 01:10 PM

60. Talentless hack

Who cares what this asshole thinks? He's the same guy who rented out a whole hospital floor so his equally mediocre wife could have their little golden child in the opulence to which they've become accustomed.

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Response to NICO9000 (Reply #60)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 02:11 PM

61. ^^^^This

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 03:56 PM

64. B/c there's so many problems right now in the US

You can't really pick one without complaining about something else too.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 04:10 PM

66. gee, i wonder why?

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 07:22 PM

67. Really? it was rather obvious...nt

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 10:24 PM

74. He's pretty damn stupid, isn't he?

They stood for the 99%. Duh. Of course, he is one of the 1%, so it is more convenient of him to be stupid.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 11:24 PM

79. This is from the rapper who still uses the word "bitch"

despite having a wife and daughter.

He's a moron with no musical talent, just an overhyped marketing machine.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2012, 11:44 PM

80. isn't Jay Z the one who tried to Profit off of Occupy by selling Shirts or some other Shit ?

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:24 AM

101. Maybe because he's uninformed?

Maybe because he makes so much fucking money, he is actually against the 99%?

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:33 AM

102. Jay-Z tried to market his own for profit Occupy tee shirts. What a dirtbag Jay-Z is...

'I never supported them, but I did try to exploit them'.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 02:32 AM

116. Wow. Jay-Z is someones useful idiot.

Who knew?

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