Thu Sep 6, 2012, 06:25 PM

alp227 (20,426 posts)

Judge orders accused Fort Hood shooter to have his beard shaved

Source: CNN

A judge has ordered that the beard of Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of fatally shooting 13 people at Fort Hood, be forcibly shaved ahead of his upcoming military trial, base spokesman Tyler Broadway said Thursday.

Col. Gregory Gross issued the order, which will likely trigger an appeal that would further delay a case that has dragged on since the 2009 mass shooting.

Hasan's attorney had filed an appeal when Gross threatened to order the shaving, but the appeals court said it wouldn't issue a decision until the shaving was actually ordered. Thursday's order by Gross opens the door for that appeal.

The last time he was in court, Hasan told the judge, "Your honor, in the name of almighty Allah, I am a Muslim. I believe that my religion requires me to wear a beard."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/06/justice/fort-hood-trial/index.html

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122 replies	Author	Time	Post
Judge orders accused Fort Hood shooter to have his beard shaved (Original post)	alp227	Sep 2012	OP
Good for the judge.	MADem	Sep 2012	#1
Why?	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#2
Why?	cstanleytech	Sep 2012	#3
It won't ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#8
Between his trial and his execution, he'll have plenty of time to re-grow the beard	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#12
Or ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#18
If that happens he'll still be able to re-grow the beard	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#22
The law is the law, and military courts forbid beards.	alp227	Sep 2012	#13
So military law ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#19
All rights are subject to regulation through due process of law	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#27
That doesn't cut Constitutional muster ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#36
That all sounds great in theory, but in reality all rights are subject to restriction	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#39
No disrespect intended; but ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#51
Defending one's rights against infringement takes more resources than most can muster	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#104
It's actually not, enlisted service members VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP SOME RIGHTS, whether YOU	LaydeeBug	Sep 2012	#119
Military also allows some Special Forces types to grow beards	Hugabear	Sep 2012	#82
What Special Forces Op is this dude participating in? nt	msanthrope	Sep 2012	#89
First, strict scutiny analysis doesn't apply to the UCMJ. Read Parker v. Levy and Quarles.	msanthrope	Sep 2012	#88
I accept most of what you have written ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#102
Your reason number three strikes me as the important one	jberryhill	Sep 2012	#108
Easy - because exceptions are discretionary, not mandatory	jberryhill	Sep 2012	#107
Actually, yeah	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#46
"Laughingly" ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#52
But they do get to restrict your right to free expression	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#90
If you are a member of the military...	awoke_in_2003	Sep 2012	#49
No ... it doesn't. n/t	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#76
Yes, it does...	awoke_in_2003	Sep 2012	#83
Yes, it does.	pasto76	Sep 2012	#74
No, it doesn't ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#79
Actually, the UCMJ	Old Troop	Sep 2012	#114
In voluntarily joining the US Military,	S_B_Jackson	Sep 2012	#121
Except he didnt ask for a waiver when he signed up and instead agreed to abide by the military rules	cstanleytech	Sep 2012	#50
Americans ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#53
Then try looking at it as a contract. When he signed up he agreed with the contract	cstanleytech	Sep 2012	#65
Okay ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#67
You do in the military	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#95
If I sign a contract with you....	jberryhill	Sep 2012	#109
because uniform regulations make no allowances for religion.	gejohnston	Sep 2012	#86
Sikhs can now get advance permission to join and wear their turban	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#96
good news to know	gejohnston	Sep 2012	#111
If he were really serious about practicing his religion, he wouldn't have shot 42 people	Freddie Stubbs	Sep 2012	#100
He voluntarily joined the Army and abided by regulations	jberryhill	Sep 2012	#106
He is still in the military. It's a military court.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#4
So violating ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#9
Discharge him, when he's suspected in a mass murder? He's gotta go thru trial!	alp227	Sep 2012	#15
Discharge ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#20
But Hasan still has to abide by military court requirements,	alp227	Sep 2012	#32
Not under the U.S. Constitution. n/t	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#37
US constitution does not govern miltary trials. try and wrap your head around that.	pasto76	Sep 2012	#75
I beg to differ ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#80
You need to talk to a JAG, because you are mistaken	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#97
He'll be discharged after his conviction and before his execution	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#33
Discharge from the military would mean no trial.	Angleae	Sep 2012	#87
Since logic. Has to be tried before can be found guilty of a crime worthy of punishment & discharge.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#30
Not true ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#38
He is still military and subject to its rules and regulations. His protestations of faith are a sham	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#40
A sham????	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#54
A sham. He shaved before he went psycho. He can shave now without religious exemption. nt.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#56
Okay ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#58
The military is all about the exercise of authority. Duh.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#63
Exercise of authority? ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#66
Exercise of authority (military discipline) is how it protects and defends. Now just let it rest.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#68
You mean	Missycim	Sep 2012	#85
It is true. He has to be tried, whether in absentia or not.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#41
Absentia	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#98
He is breaking regs -- why should he get a pass?	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#6
See Response #9 n/t	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#10
He is a service member in a military prison	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#94
He is still in the army	nadinbrzezinski	Sep 2012	#7
See Response #10, Reference Response #9 n/t	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#11
Endless repitition does not make your point clearer or stronger. It makes it less convincing.	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2012	#31
good -- about time	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#5
And if.....?	Red Mountain	Sep 2012	#14
Thank You ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#23
Sikhs ask for prior approval before formal enlistment	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#99
Don't get me wrong ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#16
Could it be argued his "conscience" led to him shooting and killing?(n/m)	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Sep 2012	#17
And other than ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#25
It's all manipulation.	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Sep 2012	#34
If people were tried only based on what they did and not what they thought, the term "hate crime"...	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#35
Bingo! ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#55
I'd like to see him shaved and have his hands removed.	spayneuter	Sep 2012	#44
Because ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#57
To be fair	glacierbay	Sep 2012	#73
tHANK YOU.	emilyg	Sep 2012	#84
His defense lawyer gets paid, but otherwise,	Quantess	Sep 2012	#112
What conscience?	MicaelS	Sep 2012	#21
Conscience being another ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#26
WADR to his choice of religion, he's using the beard issue to delay the administration of justice	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#29
Maybe ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#59
I don't care much about what happens to Hassan as long as he's kept out of circulation	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#69
Wow ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#71
Why not?...it's in their Holey Book.	spayneuter	Sep 2012	#43
Nothing in Islam says he has to have a beard	obamanut2012	Sep 2012	#105
Not that it matters to me, but the Xian bible has prohibitions against shaving...one	spayneuter	Sep 2012	#115
If only his conscience were as staunchly against murdering innocents in cold blood	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#47
This argument ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#61
Yes and it says that to US it doesn't matter what sky fairies you worship	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#93
People need to chill the fuck out	Fearless	Sep 2012	#24
Again ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#28
If this is part of the military code he agreed to	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#48
Research the term "accommodations" ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#60
laughing here. "Accomodations" in the Army. As only the uninitiated can say...	pasto76	Sep 2012	#77
I have no doubt ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#81
One fuckup doesn't justify all the others.	spayneuter	Sep 2012	#120
People who are not legal experts and have no knowledge of the military say one thing	4th law of robotics	Sep 2012	#91
This	RobinA	Sep 2012	#110
I wonder why he didn't use the defense that his "religion" requires him to kill infidels?	spayneuter	Sep 2012	#42
Having the beard will prejudice his trial. The military is going to be scrupulous in this case	riderinthestorm	Sep 2012	#45
I would probably agree ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#62
"I would probably agree" I doubt that.	cstanleytech	Sep 2012	#70
Why is it so difficult ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#72
Why? Because you have used pretty much the same argument with everyone in this thread who	cstanleytech	Sep 2012	#92
"My religion requires me to wear a beard."	Pterodactyl	Sep 2012	#64
Right. PLenty of regular church goers were denied access to religious services during our deployment	pasto76	Sep 2012	#78
This creep gunned down 13 people and he is whining about his beard?	Quantess	Sep 2012	#101
Let's just refer to him as a "barbarian"	slackmaster	Sep 2012	#103
there is a good reason for making him shave the beard..	Green_Lantern	Sep 2012	#113
why is the judge making a big deal aboit it? does it really matter?	neovente	Sep 2012	#116
Military law makes it a big deal.	alp227	Sep 2012	#117
Hopefully they use a rusty spoon...	PavePusher	Sep 2012	#118
This POS is still in the military	indypaul	Sep 2012	#122

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 06:28 PM

MADem (85,949 posts)

1. Good for the judge.

The guy was fine with being clean shaven before he decided to shoot up the joint. Playing the Religion Card now is horseshit.

He's lying about his religion, too. That "beard" thing is not a mandate, any more than a prohibition about mixing fabrics, or burning offerings on altars, is a mandate of christian religions.

Judge orders accused Fort Hood shooter to have his beard shaved

1. Good for the judge.

2. Why?

3. Why?

8. It won't ...

12. Between his trial and his execution, he'll have plenty of time to re-grow the beard

18. Or ...

22. If that happens he'll still be able to re-grow the beard

13. The law is the law, and military courts forbid beards.

19. So military law ...

27. All rights are subject to regulation through due process of law

36. That doesn't cut Constitutional muster ...

39. That all sounds great in theory, but in reality all rights are subject to restriction

51. No disrespect intended; but ...

104. Defending one's rights against infringement takes more resources than most can muster

119. It's actually not, enlisted service members VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP SOME RIGHTS, whether YOU

82. Military also allows some Special Forces types to grow beards

89. What Special Forces Op is this dude participating in? nt

88. First, strict scutiny analysis doesn't apply to the UCMJ. Read Parker v. Levy and Quarles.

102. I accept most of what you have written ...

108. Your reason number three strikes me as the important one

107. Easy - because exceptions are discretionary, not mandatory

46. Actually, yeah

52. "Laughingly" ...

90. But they do get to restrict your right to free expression

49. If you are a member of the military...

76. No ... it doesn't. n/t

83. Yes, it does...

74. Yes, it does.

79. No, it doesn't ...

114. Actually, the UCMJ

121. In voluntarily joining the US Military,

50. Except he didnt ask for a waiver when he signed up and instead agreed to abide by the military rules

53. Americans ...

65. Then try looking at it as a contract. When he signed up he agreed with the contract

67. Okay ...

95. You do in the military

109. If I sign a contract with you....

86. because uniform regulations make no allowances for religion.

96. Sikhs can now get advance permission to join and wear their turban

111. good news to know

100. If he were really serious about practicing his religion, he wouldn't have shot 42 people

106. He voluntarily joined the Army and abided by regulations

4. He is still in the military. It's a military court.

9. So violating ...

15. Discharge him, when he's suspected in a mass murder? He's gotta go thru trial!

20. Discharge ...

32. But Hasan still has to abide by military court requirements,

37. Not under the U.S. Constitution. n/t

75. US constitution does not govern miltary trials. try and wrap your head around that.

80. I beg to differ ...

97. You need to talk to a JAG, because you are mistaken

33. He'll be discharged after his conviction and before his execution

87. Discharge from the military would mean no trial.

30. Since logic. Has to be tried before can be found guilty of a crime worthy of punishment & discharge.

38. Not true ...

40. He is still military and subject to its rules and regulations. His protestations of faith are a sham

54. A sham????

56. A sham. He shaved before he went psycho. He can shave now without religious exemption. nt.

58. Okay ...

63. The military is all about the exercise of authority. Duh.

66. Exercise of authority? ...

68. Exercise of authority (military discipline) is how it protects and defends. Now just let it rest.

85. You mean

41. It is true. He has to be tried, whether in absentia or not.

98. Absentia

6. He is breaking regs -- why should he get a pass?

10. See Response #9 n/t

94. He is a service member in a military prison

7. He is still in the army

11. See Response #10, Reference Response #9 n/t

31. Endless repitition does not make your point clearer or stronger. It makes it less convincing.

5. good -- about time

14. And if.....?

23. Thank You ...

99. Sikhs ask for prior approval before formal enlistment

16. Don't get me wrong ...

17. Could it be argued his "conscience" led to him shooting and killing?(n/m)

25. And other than ...

34. It's all manipulation.