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muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 05:37 AM Sep 2012

Alps shooting: Second girl found alive under mother's body after eight hours

Source: Metro

A four-year-old girl has been found alive eight hours after the initial discovery of three holidaymakers, believed to be British, who were shot dead in the French Alps.

The girl was found apparently unharmed at the scene of the incident in which a family visiting France were killed by automatic gunfire.

She had been hiding for more than eight hours under her mother’s legs during and after the attack but was not initially spotted by police.
...


All four are thought to be from the same family. A fifth victim, a cyclist, was found dead near the BMW car, which was parked in a forest lay-by.

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/910921-alps-shooting-second-girl-found-alive-under-mothers-body-after-eight-hours



It's an incredible story. The police decided not to search the car until forensic experts arrived. They had found the wounded 8 year old daughter outside the car (shot 3 times, but stable in hospital now), and the murdered cyclist (who appears just to have stumbled on the crime by chance), but not the girl inside. Some reports say it was when the forensic experts arrived they found her; some say it was when the campsite the family were staying at had made clear there was a 4 year old in the family too.

The motive for this seems unclear; to kill 4 people, and presumably mean to kill the 5th, over an opportunistic robbery of tourists in daylight would be very unusual.

More:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19499157
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Alps shooting: Second girl found alive under mother's body after eight hours (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 OP
France shootings: Girl hid under bodies in car dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #1
Frightening. Nt xchrom Sep 2012 #2
Father of massacred British family named as Saad Al-Hilli, from London, say sources Bosonic Sep 2012 #3
Disturbing! Crepuscular Sep 2012 #4
The UK failed to protect Saad al Hilli dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #5
Where do you find these nutters? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #11
Yes - looks like they added 2 to 2 and 3. dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #14
An Israeli hit? Jackpine Radical Sep 2012 #6
Mossad typically aren't this sloppy Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #8
Is that so ? dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #9
I know that case... Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #10
Ultimately this whole thread is offensive ? dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #7
The gun nuts will say anything about a thread with the word 'shooting' in muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #12
To set the record straight. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #15
Calling a thread 'offensive' is a damn strange way to show 'respect' muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #19
Right............. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #21
What a stretch. Clames Sep 2012 #17
Like a thread saying everyone should want to have guns in churches? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #18
Just like people ranting about limbaugh and scarburough. If you don't like madmom Sep 2012 #20
That's a lot of time spent in the RKBA group. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #22
All it took was looking at the top 3 lines of the group page muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #23
Finally an honest admission. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #25
You can't project my personal reading habits on to "anti-2A people" muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #26
and? Remmah2 Sep 2012 #27
"advocating for every adult to carry a gun, all the time." Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #30
No one in the gungeon advocates "arm everyone, all the time". N/T GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #24
I've posted there many times, for a long time. Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #29
So you want a political test to see if people should be allowed to carry weapons? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #31
Who said anything about politics? Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #33
You did muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #34
Show me where I said the word "allowed." Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #35
Mother of god, what a horrific story. a la izquierda Sep 2012 #13
France shootings: Three victims shot in head dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #16
Yeah, I figured from the start it was a hit Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #28
Police probing family dispute in Alps killing muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #32

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
1. France shootings: Girl hid under bodies in car
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 05:48 AM
Sep 2012

French police say they are shocked and baffled by the brutality of the shooting, in the middle of the afternoon, in a popular tourist region, says the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Annecy.

The girl found away from the car, thought to be seven or eight years old, was shot three times and seriously injured, the younger daughter, only four, hid beneath her mother, and was not even found until midnight, our correspondent says.

>

A major murder investigation is now under way, with French forensic teams and ballistics experts at the scene. The area has been sealed off.

>

Theories for the motive behind the brutal attack include an armed robbery gone wrong, a drug deal interrupted, even a family row, our correspondent says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19499157

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
3. Father of massacred British family named as Saad Al-Hilli, from London, say sources
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 07:22 AM
Sep 2012

Sources today named the man shot in the French Alps massacre as Saad Al-Hilli, in his 50s from London.

The details came as officers in the Alps are today investigating if an attempted car-jacking is linked to the murder of a British family and a Frenchman.

Police said there had been an attempt to steal two cars around Rousillon, in the area Isere region, some 50 miles away from the killings, on Wednesday night.

Four masked attackers were foiled as they tried to car-jack a Ford Fiesta, and then a Peugeot 205.

However, they were solely armed with a single pistol, which may well have been a fake, said local police.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/breaking-french-alps-shooting-father-of-massacred-british-family-named-as-saad-alhilli-from-london-say-sources-8112462.html

Crepuscular

(1,057 posts)
4. Disturbing!
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:28 AM
Sep 2012

Very disturbing story, it will be interesting to see what was behind these brutal murders.

Those poor girls, hard to imagine what they are going through.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
5. The UK failed to protect Saad al Hilli
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:42 AM
Sep 2012

al Hilli's work with the Iraqi nuclear program was under duress as a result of Saddam's Husseins threats against his family, there is no evidence he did it willingly.

Once he fled to the UK he had a right to expect protection from Israel and yet his trip was without any from UK or French police despite his repeated requests for some. He knew he had been targeted for assassination by Israel to prevent his knowledge reaching Iran and yet there was no evidence that he had continued his work or that he was working with Iran, his trip to Tehran was for religious reasons to visit the city of Qom.

http://www.indymedia.co.uk/en/2012/09/499644.html

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
11. Where do you find these nutters?
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:35 AM
Sep 2012

The moment he's named, they've constructed an elaborate conspriacy theory, which they just put out there like it's common knowledge. And almost inevitably, when someone born in an Arab country dies, they blame Israel.

On edit: I don't think you should be believing the anonymous conspiracy theorists about him being 'an Iraqi nuclear scientist':

"He (Saad al-Hilli) went to school in Pimlico. He was British-educated and British-trained. They came to Claygate in 1984. He was a good friend, a close friend. Saad was the perfect father and a wonderful engineer. He was a keen cyclist," Nick says.

The friend said Hilli had been brought up in London after his parents got out of Iraq in the 1970s. Hilli's father's business in Iraq was sequestered by the Ba'ath party.
...
Saad al-Hilli's accountant Julian Stedman says Hilli was a computer design specialist.

"He would be working for several months for one company and then possibly move on when the work dried up," Stedman said

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/afp/french-alps-shooting-live-report/542846

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
14. Yes - looks like they added 2 to 2 and 3.
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:15 AM
Sep 2012

According to the Telegraph Mr Al Hilli is understood to have been the secretary of a Wiltshire-based aerial photography company, AMS 1087, since 2007. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9524537/France-shooting-Father-named-as-Saad-Al-Hilli.html

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
9. Is that so ?
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
Sep 2012

Lillehammer affair.

The Lillehammer affair was the killing by Mossad agents of a Moroccan waiter, Ahmed Bouchiki, in Lillehammer, Norway on July 21, 1973. The Israeli agents had mistaken their target for Ali Hassan Salameh, the chief of operations for Black September. Most of the Mossad team were captured and convicted of complicity in the killing by the Norwegian justice system, in a major blow to the intelligence agency's reputation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

That is not say I necessarily believe them to be responsible in the current case.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
10. I know that case...
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:23 AM
Sep 2012

But I can only think of that and Dubai off the top of my head as world-class screwups

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
12. The gun nuts will say anything about a thread with the word 'shooting' in
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:00 AM
Sep 2012

I think they're feeling a bit exposed right now - some Meta threads on how their forum is a cesspit of RW views, and they're concerned they might be asked to show some vague support for Democrats, or vaguely liberal or progressive ideas, some time. So they need to keep their morale up by convincing themselves their "arm everyone, all the time" ideal world would be a Good Thing.

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
15. To set the record straight.
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:25 AM
Sep 2012

All the posted assumptions are wrong. Empty and hollow.

BTW I posted it in the RKBA board so as to not dilute this thread, out of respect. The anti-2A people really need to get a life.

If one group does not respect the opinions of another then it is what it is. Some of us can apparently live with it, others are obsessed with impressing their values on others.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
19. Calling a thread 'offensive' is a damn strange way to show 'respect'
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:03 PM
Sep 2012

Saying people "really need to get a life" is also a damn strange way to show 'respect'. Especially when the 2nd Amendment had not been mentioned in this thread, nor had anyone dwelt on the use of guns for the murders. It seems you can't respect the opinions of Europeans on gun control, but you felt the need to denigrate them as people who you claim "care more about the dead than the living".

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
17. What a stretch.
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:41 AM
Sep 2012

Of course you have nothing to backup this wild assertion.

 convincing themselves their "arm everyone, all the time" ideal world would be a Good Thing.


muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
18. Like a thread saying everyone should want to have guns in churches?
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:52 AM
Sep 2012

Or a thread saying the problem with Europe is that families on vacation aren't permanently armed?

Or one that says it's good that a store owner requires his employees to have a CCW permit?

Just to mention the 3 most recently posted-to threads in the Gungeon.

No, I really do think the worst and most vocal of the Gungeon dwellers are advocating for every adult to carry a gun, all the time.

madmom

(9,681 posts)
20. Just like people ranting about limbaugh and scarburough. If you don't like
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:08 PM
Sep 2012

what they are saying, why go there? We do have hide features now!

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
22. That's a lot of time spent in the RKBA group.
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sep 2012

Glad someone is paying attention.

Since you brought it up. Guns in churches should not be regulated by the government, it should be an issue between the congregation an their Church, Chapel, Synagogue, Temple. That would be true separation of church and state.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
23. All it took was looking at the top 3 lines of the group page
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:39 PM
Sep 2012

just a few seconds. There's so little ever worth reading in the group, thanks to its status as a RW refuge, that I don't, normally - but when someone points out you declared my thread 'offensive', it seemed worth looking at how the hell it could be. I hadn't dreamed for a moment that anyone could be so in love with guns that they could find it offensive - but you've pushed the envelope again.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
26. You can't project my personal reading habits on to "anti-2A people"
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 03:06 PM
Sep 2012

I appreciate you'd like to stereotype a group based on how much one person cares about the details in the crap you write, because that would be simple, and wouldn't need you to read or think. But you really ought to make an effort in your arguments.

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
30. "advocating for every adult to carry a gun, all the time."
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:31 PM
Sep 2012

As your buddy bongbong would say, "Prove it."

Find ONE--just one--Gungeonista who says that "every adult" should "carry a gun, all the time."

Just one.

Prove it.

I'll wait.

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
29. I've posted there many times, for a long time.
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:28 PM
Sep 2012

I've NEVER seen anyone but an anti-gunner make such a ridiculous statement, always fictionalized and attributed to "many here in the Gungeon".

I think there are MANY people that should not be armed--starting with the vocal, strident anti-gunners.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
31. So you want a political test to see if people should be allowed to carry weapons?
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 04:17 AM
Sep 2012

That seems a remarkably anti-second amendment approach to take.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
34. You did
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:14 PM
Sep 2012

You don't think "vocal, strident anti-gunners" should be allowed to have guns, though you think others should.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
16. France shootings: Three victims shot in head
Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:32 AM
Sep 2012

Three of the four victims of a shooting in the French Alps were shot in the head, a French prosecutor has said.

>

"It was clearly an act of extreme savagery and it was obvious that who did this wanted to kill," he said.

>

An automatic pistol was used, and the killer "targeted" the victims rather than indiscriminately firing into the car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19506853

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
32. Police probing family dispute in Alps killing
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 04:57 AM
Sep 2012
French police are investigating whether a money feud between brothers may have been at the heart of a shooting that killed three members of a British-Iraqi family in the French Alps, prosecutors said Friday.

"It seems that there was a dispute between the two brothers about money. This seems to be credible information coming from the British police," prosecutor Eric Maillaud told AFP.

"The brother will have to be questioned at length. Every lead will be meticulously followed."

He warned against drawing early conclusions however, saying it was difficult to imagine how a family feud could "pass from a financial dispute to a quadruple murder".

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/afp/police-probing-family-dispute-in-alps-killing/542992
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