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Sun Sep 2, 2012, 12:49 PM

Netanyahu urges international "red lines" to stop Iran

Source: REUTERS

(Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged world powers on Sunday to set a "clear red line" for Tehran's atomic program that would convince Iran they were determined to prevent it from obtaining nuclear arms.

Netanyahu's remarks suggested a growing impatience with Israel's main ally, the United States, and other countries that have been pressing him to give diplomacy and sanctions more time to work and hold off on any go-it-alone strike on Iran. Recent heightened Israeli rhetoric has stoked speculation that Israel might attack Iran before the U.S. elections in November, believing that President Barack Obama would give it military help and not risk alienating pro-Israeli voters.

--snip--

General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff, has suggested Washington would not be drawn into conflict with Iran should Israel attack.

"I don't want to be complicit if they choose to do it,"
Britain's Guardian newspaper quoted him on Friday as saying.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/02/us-iran-israel-idUSBRE88102R20120902



The second bolded sentence, above. Is there any other way to read it than:
"Benjamin Netanyahu may attempt to hold President Obama's chances of re-election hostage by starting an unnecessary war at a time which might politically force our President to go along with it."


I'm asking this seriously: How do you interpret that second bolded sentence in the article?

I've seen America convinced into supporting a war. I've seen American lied into supporting a war, lord knows. But I don't recall having lived long enough to see our government politically extorted into supporting a war.

That would be a new one on me.

And if that concept isn't concerning enough, it is almost unprecedented for the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff to go on record not once but twice to indicate he did not want to be "complicit" in such an attack at this time. His choice of words is equally telling. Dictionary.com defines "complicit" as "Involved with others in an illegal activity or wrongdoing."

What the fuck, exactly, is going on here?

PB

34 replies, 4777 views

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Netanyahu urges international "red lines" to stop Iran (Original post)
Poll_Blind Sep 2012 OP
byeya Sep 2012 #1
Sand Wind Sep 2012 #7
Fuddnik Sep 2012 #2
Did I Just Type This Sep 2012 #3
Shadowflash Sep 2012 #4
nanabugg Sep 2012 #5
rachel1 Sep 2012 #6
leveymg Sep 2012 #8
Sand Wind Sep 2012 #9
leveymg Sep 2012 #10
bananas Sep 2012 #18
leveymg Sep 2012 #19
bemildred Sep 2012 #25
dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #11
L0oniX Sep 2012 #12
sulphurdunn Sep 2012 #13
lovuian Sep 2012 #15
Mosby Sep 2012 #24
sulphurdunn Sep 2012 #26
lovuian Sep 2012 #14
LongTomH Sep 2012 #29
on point Sep 2012 #16
bananas Sep 2012 #17
leveymg Sep 2012 #20
LongTomH Sep 2012 #28
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #21
Selatius Sep 2012 #31
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #33
Selatius Sep 2012 #34
agentS Sep 2012 #22
defacto7 Sep 2012 #23
NewYorkers Sep 2012 #27
defacto7 Sep 2012 #30
davidpdx Sep 2012 #32

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 12:55 PM

1. A ham handed attempt to intimidate the President of the USA is how I read it.

 

Good for Obama for sending Gen Dempsey to make that speech that the Israeli's should understand.

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Response to byeya (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:32 PM

7. that's the way I see it too

 

Some say that Netanyahu is afraid that because he disrespect Obama, that Obama will want to take his revenge if he win in november. And so Netanyahu want to attack before the election to implicate the USA.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:09 PM

2. Tell Nut N Yahoo ALL aid is suspended tomorrow.

And WE'll tell THEM how to get it back.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:14 PM

3. Not concerned

 

Israel lacks the ability to do little more than anger the Iranians in an independent assault on the sovereign nation. President Obama has made it relatively clear (with actions not words) that he will not join in yet another over seas battle. The United States can not survive another financially draining war on the economy and reputation of our nation as a whole.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:22 PM

4. Ha ha! Suckers!

'Let's you and him fight!'

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:25 PM

5. I hope Obama thinks about the American public over the pro-Israeli voters. If not, he deserves to

 

lose and I would rather he put America first and lose than put the Israeli government first at the risk of more American lives and resources.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:27 PM

6. More war? No thanks

but of course only TPTP will decide on that.

It's sad that there are too many heartless and bloodthirsty freaks out there!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:46 PM

8. All that Obama and Dempsey have to do is get on a secure line to Netanyahu, and say this:

"Mr. Prime Minister - We must inform you in no uncertain terms that any unilateral attack on Iran by your country is contrary to the national interests of the United States, and will be taken as a hostile and aggressive act in violation of international law norms, forcing us to take immediate action to neutralize any and all military forces involved. I am delivering the same message to Tehran.

"The party that shoots first will be shot by us. This is not open to debate or question. That is all."

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:47 PM

9. more : ''The secret reason for Netanyahu's timing on Iran war''

 

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-secret-reason-for-netanyahu-s-timing-on-iran-war.premium-1.461300

Well it's the Haaretz, so...

But Netanyahu's personal interests are diametrically opposed to those of the country he leads.

In the United States, his expressed interest in attacking Iran is seen as part of his effort to bring about Obama's defeat. Americans fear Netanyahu's effort to drag the United States into war against its will, as well as attempts to raise gas prices as a means of kicking Obama out of the White House in November because of the economy. Even the attempt to extort another public statement from Obama - he intends to pledge once again to stop Iran - is seen as an effort to publicly humiliate him, which makes it difficult to issue such pledges.

In private conversations, Netanyahu has said there is nothing after Election Day, which falls on November 6. If Obama wins, Netanyahu says, he will take revenge for the overt efforts to defeat him and will prevent Netanyahu from attacking Iran. For this reason, and only this reason, Netanyahu must go on the offensive over Iran now - some reliable sources say he will probably do it during the Democratic National Convention in North Carolina next week - when the timing is the worst for Israel. That's the price of getting portrayed as being a member of the Romney-Netanyahu-Sheldon Adelson trinity.

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Response to Sand Wind (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:52 PM

10. Or, this could just be more "nice cop-bad cop" posturing, and an attempt to provoke Iran into a

first aggressive act and cassus belli for a joint attack. Any Israeli first-strike will also be taken by Tehran as an act of war by the US.

That's the other possibility.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 04:15 PM

18. Sounds like 11-dimensional chess. nt

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Response to bananas (Reply #18)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 09:56 PM

19. Things can go very far wrong very quickly in the 12th-dimension.

That sort of game should not be played while running with sharp objects.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 04:37 PM

25. Yep, every additional dimension, it just adds to the complexity.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 02:12 PM

11. Here's a few



All he needs is a printer and a pair of scissors.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 02:34 PM

12. What About Israelís Nuclear Weapons?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:03 PM

13. Netanyahu

is a demented, war mongering psychopath who cares no more for the people of Israel than for the people of Iran or the United States. He may be even crazier than his counterpart in North Korea and is absolutely the most dangerous political leader on the planet today. He should be medicated and placed in an institution where he can be cared for and not allowed to harm himself or others.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:23 PM

15. I agree with you on that one

He has to be crazy if he wants Israel in WWIII

they would be wiped off the map

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:16 PM

24. lol.

Thanks for the laugh!

Hey, what do you think about Israel in general? Don't be shy.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:12 PM

26. About the same as I think

of most countries in general, more or less. Why? Is there something special about Israel? What exactly does my opinion of a national leader have to do with what I think about a country in general?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:22 PM

14. The Dempsey assasination attempt failed in Afghanistan

right after he told Netanhu "I don't want to be complicit if they choose to do it"

I think that had to tick off the US Military trying to kill Dempsey

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Response to lovuian (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:34 PM

29. The attack on Gen. Dempsey's plane was in August

He didn't warn Netanyahu until Sept. 2.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:40 PM

16. Actually it is Israel that needs the redlines to stop it from war crimes and crimes against humanity

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:54 PM

17. This is similar to the 1980 election, when the Republicans made a deal with Iran

The Republicans made a deal with Iran to hold the hostages to defeat Carter.

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Response to bananas (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:02 PM

20. And the Israelis played nuclear blackmail with Nixon to resupply them in '73. Go figure.

Neither side exactly has a spotless record of trustworthiness and fair-play. With friends and enemies like these, trust no one.

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Response to bananas (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:27 PM

28. It sounds an awful lot like another "October Surprise" in the planning stage.

I would not be surprised to learn that there has been a back channel communication line set up between Netanyahu and the Israeli right wing and the Romney campaign.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:06 PM

21. Dear Mr. Netanyahu, beware of Pakistan

I think if you attack Iran, Pakistan (which has nuclear weapons) will join in. Russia will also support these countries. Basically they are all loonies so better not light the fuse.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 4, 2012, 07:48 AM

31. Pakistan wouldn't dare. India has its own stockpile of nuclear weapons pointed at Pakistan.

India would know fairly quickly whether any of those atomic weapons are being moved around. India has spent large amounts of resources monitoring the nuclear warheads that Pakistan possesses. The Pakistanis would risk triggering a response from India if they began moving their nuclear warheads around, and if it got down to it, India may actually attempt to destroy those warheads if they can catch those warheads out in the open as opposed to being stored in underground lockers like they are currently.

Also, Pakistan has no known rockets capable of reaching Israeli soil that could carry Pakistani nuclear weapons. Pakistan would have to move them by ground or by ship or even by air, which requires lots of men, and that amount of men would very probably catch the attention of the intelligence services of India, not to mention the United States and other major world powers. Pakistan would lose a lot more than it would gain by getting involved in a fight between Iran and Israel.

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Response to Selatius (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 5, 2012, 12:16 AM

33. How do you know that Pakistan has no known rockets?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 5, 2012, 05:27 AM

34. Because they would've test fired those rockets to ensure they actually could go that far.

Whenever the Chinese or Russians tested long-range rockets capable of hitting the United States, they often fired them into the Pacific to test the range. Even North Korea has tried to test-fire long-range rockets. India tested rockets as well. They fire theirs into the Indian Ocean.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:34 PM

22. There's only 1 red line that matters

If Israel wants backup from the West for their pre-emptive whatever on Iran, then it's gonna take a violation of the NPT- the Non Proliferation Treaty. Basically they would have to be spotted with an atomic weapon to justify a war.
They've had 'ticky-tack' violations but nothing of the sort that would require a bombing run. Sure they may have an extra centrifuge or two, but so do a lot of places and they're not building nukes. Or at least they say they're not. At the very least they're not threatening to use nukes on opponents (this applies to Israel's enemy the Mullahs of Iran, who have repeatedly said they were not. Of course they are Mullahs so YMMY).

It should be noted that Israel is NOT a member of the treaty.

Now the ultra-hard-righties in Israel are saying 'we can't wait for a nuke, they're a suicide bomber nation.'
The Obama administration seems to be saying "Link or GTFO". And Netanyahu is pissed.

Short of regime change I am not sure of any guaranteed method that would keep the Mullahs from building a nuke IF they choose to leave the NPT and build them. Hitting a few sites, in which there are many, with sketchy bunker-busters probably isn't going to change their mind. Is the hard-right willing to stomach another occupation, this one thousands of miles away?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:51 AM

23. Don't forget the fundamentalists lurking in the background...

who actually WANT a nuclear war... WWIII, Armageddon if you please. These are the teabaggers, the fanatics, Romney... many of the radio talk show right wing hosts... They preach the bringing on of the second coming of Christ... Jesus comes in the clouds and saves all believers, destroys all the sinners and there is a thousand years of.... BULL SHIT.

G.W. was visited by Billy Graham in the White House several times, G.W. came to Salt Lake City to visit the 12 presidents and the profit of the Mormon Church... This religious stuff has a huge hand in the decisions of politicians whether they believe in what they do or just use and are used by the raving religious crazies.

Nutinyahoo is crazy and a liar and a murderer. I have no idea what his motives are but rest assured, he will use any crazy religious imbecile and ignorant politician he can get, to do whatever the hell it is he wants.

Personally, I also think he is a racist to the hilt.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:20 PM

27. Bomb nuclear facilities Netanyahu

 

Isreal must bomb nuclear facilities and missile sites of Iran as emptive strike. Problem solved

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Response to NewYorkers (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 4, 2012, 02:04 AM

30. No... The greatest problem begins

do you mean pre-emptive?

Some people just see things as a big boom and it's done. Your comment sounds very "religious" to me... maybe even fanatical.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Tue Sep 4, 2012, 10:03 AM

32. Israel has been trying to goat us into starting a war with Iran for awhile now

It appears they want to start a war, then pull us into it so we can take the blame. I hope Obama continues to stand tough and tell them they are on their own if they want war.

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