Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:12 PM

Sgent (3,775 posts)

Benefits of male circumcision reconfirmed as rates decline

Source: USA Today

Evidence that male circumcision has health benefits is growing, even as the quick but often-controversial surgery becomes less common in the United States, say medical experts making new efforts to publicize the benefits.

In a study out Monday, researchers say falling infant circumcision rates could end up costing billions of U.S. health care dollars when men and their female partners develop AIDS and other sexually transmitted infections and cancers that could have been prevented.

Separately, the American Academy of Pediatrics is about to issue a new policy statement that says infant circumcision has "significant" health benefits, replacing a statement that takes a more neutral stance.

<cut>

The researchers say that if U.S. rates dropped to 10% — the level seen in European countries where insurers don't cover circumcision — the results would include:

•211% more urinary tract infections in baby boys.
•12% more HIV cases in men.
•29% more human papillomavirus (HPV) cases in men.
•18% more high-risk HPV infections in women.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-08-20/male-circumcision-rates/57169976/1?loc=interstitialskip

261 replies, 22205 views

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

261 replies	Author	Time	Post
Benefits of male circumcision reconfirmed as rates decline (Original post)	Sgent	Aug 2012	OP
...	KG	Aug 2012	#1
I can see the ad campaign. "Don't get sick. Trim your dick." nt	valerief	Aug 2012	#5
Don't be silly, slice that willy!	Dash87	Aug 2012	#22
Am I wrong to laugh??? :-)	spooky3	Aug 2012	#25
Don't be a cod, trim that rod!	villager	Aug 2012	#29
Don't be a fool, clip that tool!	Arugula Latte	Aug 2012	#81
It isn't wrong to snip that schlong.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#91
Someone! Quick! There's a Hackensack joke just waiting	closeupready	Aug 2012	#165
O	femrap	Aug 2012	#38
It doesn't make any sense to me and I doubt it's true.	Nine	Aug 2012	#45
+1	wordpix	Aug 2012	#49
go	femrap	Aug 2012	#70
There is no "hormonal link" between a bit of foreskin and the brain.	Codeine	Aug 2012	#93
b	femrap	Aug 2012	#113
It's certainly as well documented as the effect on menstrual cycles that the moon bombing had.	Warren DeMontague	Aug 2012	#140
Moon bombing? When did that happen? I do remember people blaming excessive rain on moon landings	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#154
An epic thread.	Codeine	Aug 2012	#177
Fl	femrap	Aug 2012	#127
I think it's crap	Confusious	Aug 2012	#57
v	femrap	Aug 2012	#131
losing a foreskin makes a man less able to bond with a woman? then its true. a man's	roguevalley	Aug 2012	#61
Not to mention that the man will mourn the loss of the foreskin for the rest of his life.....	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#104
Utter codswallop.	Codeine	Aug 2012	#62
Intercourse is different, not sure about bonding	unc70	Aug 2012	#89
U	femrap	Aug 2012	#130
This sounds like industrial strength woo to me.	MadrasT	Aug 2012	#95
+1 Epic woo. Crazy talk. nt	hifiguy	Aug 2012	#100
So	femrap	Aug 2012	#121
With all due respect, opinions on penises from nonmedical women	Thor_MN	Aug 2012	#96
po	femrap	Aug 2012	#119
Why is it a sin to eat lobster and pork?	NickB79	Aug 2012	#141
e	femrap	Aug 2012	#143
Critical thinking is important.	kiva	Aug 2012	#101
A	femrap	Aug 2012	#117
Your source isn't an endocrinologist either, he's a fucking loon	Codeine	Aug 2012	#152
I wondered about that and the poster probably knows that.	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#153
"Internet lecture"........"the gentleman cited studies but I didn't write them down."	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#103
G	femrap	Aug 2012	#115
If you have sources cite them. Close-minded is making assertions without attribution.	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#125
d	femrap	Aug 2012	#134
you should get slammed for that shit.	cali	Aug 2012	#108
This message was hidden by jury decision.	femrap	Aug 2012	#114
F	femrap	Aug 2012	#128
Ya know - calling people who disagree "close-minded" is kind of rude.	yellowcanine	Aug 2012	#135
click	femrap	Aug 2012	#142
No ban...	ElboRuum	Aug 2012	#123
pi	femrap	Aug 2012	#126
Halfpasthuman.com?	Codeine	Aug 2012	#150
Does it make it any easier to shave?	jberryhill	Aug 2012	#2
Oh, Lordy.. If only I had a pitbull to hide behind at the Olive Garden while breast feeding openly.	hlthe2b	Aug 2012	#3
Chicken thread! Chicken thread!	Lasher	Aug 2012	#12
You leave your corn flakes out of it!	hlthe2b	Aug 2012	#14
And UTI's can occur without symptoms and cause permanent kidney damage.	pnwmom	Aug 2012	#4
eh	WooWooWoo	Aug 2012	#6
I have a good friend who converted to Islam and married a Muslim young woman.	MADem	Aug 2012	#20
That's because up until around 10 days old or so	Panasonic	Aug 2012	#39
A reliable link to back up that statement about no nerve endings?	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#72
Nonsense	dkhbrit	Aug 2012	#116
That's been debunked	Xithras	Aug 2012	#139
If there's no nerve endings how do they feel that it is cold?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#145
Could be possible.	GaYellowDawg	Aug 2012	#169
You can provide sources that prove babies don't feel pain?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#170
Oh, wonderful, a poster who puts straw men in their subject line.	GaYellowDawg	Aug 2012	#174
The question was on whether or not it hurts the child	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#180
That does not justify the straw man in the reply title.	GaYellowDawg	Aug 2012	#182
I was trying to stay on topic	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#184
Bull.	Warren DeMontague	Aug 2012	#148
Eh...	kenfrequed	Aug 2012	#105
He did if he wanted to marry his bride.	MADem	Aug 2012	#110
It was a choice he made as an adult	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#147
Well no--it wasn't a choice because he would have had to abandon his bride.	MADem	Aug 2012	#159
Unless someone put a gun to his head he had a choice to marry or not marry that woman	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#160
Well, you might be one of the rare few people who thinks getting married is like buying a loaf of	MADem	Aug 2012	#161
You feel marriage is not a choice?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#162
The suggestion was that being forced to NOT marry was acceptable.	MADem	Aug 2012	#178
You say it wasn't a choice	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#181
If you think "choosing" to marry or not, once a person is engaged, is an actual choice, I feel sorry	MADem	Aug 2012	#187
This is surreal	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#190
male circumcision is no more mutilation than any surgery....	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#194
If a doctor performed FGM would it not be mutilation?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#195
we do a lot of things without their consent for health reasons...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#197
The health reasons for circumcision are largely being found to be bunk	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#198
hygiene purposes...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#200
Soap/water - heard of it?	closeupready	Aug 2012	#203
In the US, in 2012? Where could anyone possibly access such things	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#206
Duh, of course. Excuse my stupidity -	closeupready	Aug 2012	#211
soap and water don't prevent all infections...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#207
From your link:	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#205
all you are proving is that there is not a medical consensus on the issue...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#209
So if there is a pretty strong consensus that there aren't any real benefits	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#212
let parents and doctors decide	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#219
And for my other example . . .	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#221
It damn well is if, after reflection, I say it is.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#196
so you oppose all procedures done on infants?	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#199
If not medically necessary, I sure do. 'My body, my choice'	closeupready	Aug 2012	#201
there are plenty of doctors who think it is medically necessary..	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#204
Most doctors take my position.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#210
then why does almost every ob doctor do circumcisions?	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#213
If you tell your doctor you don't want your kids vaccinated they will comply	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#222
Why do they? I thought they were supposed to be specialists	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#228
There are doctors in Egypt who believe the same thing about female genital cutting.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#227
I read once about	pipoman	Aug 2012	#28
Get a grip!	xtraxritical	Aug 2012	#66
What is a minor procedure in infants	Warpy	Aug 2012	#30
i think the question is, should it be the parents decision	WooWooWoo	Aug 2012	#35
There are no medical benefits to female circumcision, so this isn't comparable. n/t	pnwmom	Aug 2012	#43
Maybe they just need to look harder.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#83
While inflammatory	kenfrequed	Aug 2012	#133
"Circumcision - a surgery in search of a problem"	closeupready	Aug 2012	#166
What part of simple procedure in infancy, serious procedure later	Warpy	Aug 2012	#48
so "my body, my decision"	WooWooWoo	Aug 2012	#92
It only applies to females, not males.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#97
Yup. On this board, at least.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#167
Check out age of consent in your state	Warpy	Aug 2012	#136
"age of consent"? Really?	Warren DeMontague	Aug 2012	#149
Since they're not at age of consent, does that mean it's okay to have sex with them?	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#229
I don't think possibly painful = serious or drastic	Nine	Aug 2012	#98
It's not a minor procedure.	JackRiddler	Aug 2012	#120
In infants, yes it is.	GaYellowDawg	Aug 2012	#172
Hysteria? The foreskin has more nerve endings than the clitoris	ilikeitthatway	Aug 2012	#237
Having your clitoris removed is more painful as an adult than as a child	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#146
This message was self-deleted by its author	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#171
Most adult circumcisions are done because of a medical complication	riderinthestorm	Aug 2012	#179
Minor? Um, no.	ilikeitthatway	Aug 2012	#236
I watched it done to my son. It obviously hurt like a son of a bitch.	lumberjack_jeff	Aug 2012	#250
Mohel's new profession:	calsawals	Aug 2012	#111
we have foreskin for a reason	Enrique	Aug 2012	#7
We have an appendix for a reason as well, contrary to what we were told once upon a	2on2u	Aug 2012	#13
how about tonsils?	wordpix	Aug 2012	#51
Nowadays tonsils mostly stay in unless they interfere with breathing	AngryAmish	Aug 2012	#99
we have foreskin for a reason	AlbertCat	Aug 2012	#19
However, that reason may be less valid since the advent of wearing clothes.	Psephos	Aug 2012	#32
foreskin is purposeful	calsawals	Aug 2012	#112
I have that tattooed on my shaved private area	jberryhill	Aug 2012	#86
The science seems quite sound.	hifiguy	Aug 2012	#8
Yes, although from the article, it seems they are basing this analysis off a few studies in Uganda.	antigone382	Aug 2012	#9
These were large-scale WHO studies conducted in different countries in Africa	pnwmom	Aug 2012	#17
These studies had scientific problems...	My Pet Goat	Aug 2012	#59
All study participants had the same counseling about safe sex	pnwmom	Aug 2012	#63
This message was hidden by jury decision.	Scootaloo	Aug 2012	#80
The French National Council on AIDS (2007) has stated	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#242
Why is the medical consensus in the rest of the developed world not buying it?	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#73
No, it isn't. Not even close. Please see the link below for explanation.	idwiyo	Aug 2012	#87
Science not that sound	unc70	Aug 2012	#88
Please PM me with the link to your post. I would love to read it and don't want to miss it.	idwiyo	Aug 2012	#191
Not to mention the bland fondue....	2on2u	Aug 2012	#10
I'm gonna have to keep an eye on this thread! Time for a snack...	LeftofObama	Aug 2012	#11
Circumsized men	sulphurdunn	Aug 2012	#15
Doctors Charge $300 and hour + Tips. n/t	Grassy Knoll	Aug 2012	#16
I'd like to see comparisons with European countries, not Uganda, to see medical benefits.	Mass	Aug 2012	#18
The majority of European men -- indeed, the majority of ALL men, are uncircumcised	RufusTFirefly	Aug 2012	#21
No no no!	Hydra	Aug 2012	#24
You sound like my neighbor discussing global warming	joeglow3	Aug 2012	#183
That's the problem with lazy science	Hydra	Aug 2012	#186
I'd like to see comparisons of countries with a high degree of personal hygiene	Art_from_Ark	Aug 2012	#31
That too....	Mass	Aug 2012	#36
But their wee wees fall off at age 62.	Hassin Bin Sober	Aug 2012	#41
If you actually believe that,	Art_from_Ark	Aug 2012	#47
Is it a nice bridge? Will you take a check?	Hassin Bin Sober	Aug 2012	#50
Oh, I think it's quite obvious from the picture	Art_from_Ark	Aug 2012	#56
That's why their nursing home workers don't complain about it.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#75
ding ding, me too.	wordpix	Aug 2012	#52
Yes, but the men are so pale and wan and...	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#74
Statistical outlier	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#158
holy hell not this again	iamthebandfanman	Aug 2012	#23
Nothing like a good penis thread to liven things up	Major Nikon	Aug 2012	#27
Oh, this is going to be going on for awhile.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#230
Nothing is more important than preservation of the teeny tiny turtleneck.	aquart	Aug 2012	#26
...	xchrom	Aug 2012	#33
or as we prefer to call it, "the elephant trunk"	wordpix	Aug 2012	#53
And again if that sort of bullshit statement were made about fgm you would be out of here.	Warren Stupidity	Aug 2012	#58
Teeny tiny?!	Codeine	Aug 2012	#64
Except for the itty bitty clitties.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#76
Let's ask Anthony Weiner.	Fuddnik	Aug 2012	#34
And we are all experts on HIS thing.	Hassin Bin Sober	Aug 2012	#40
How come they cherrypicked the comparison.	JackRiddler	Aug 2012	#37
dam posts like this makes me miss the lounge.....	madrchsod	Aug 2012	#42
Many years ago when I was a nurse in OB delivery	flying_wahini	Aug 2012	#44
It is mentioned above	Sgent	Aug 2012	#46
"designed to"	jberryhill	Aug 2012	#54
you forgot to mention	HankyDub	Aug 2012	#65
Women dying in childbirth is not part of "intelligent design".	Manifestor_of_Light	Aug 2012	#252
having had some experience with old elephant trunk,	wordpix	Aug 2012	#55
From the report...	My Pet Goat	Aug 2012	#60
I think this study would have more relevance to practices in the US	Emillereid	Aug 2012	#67
The AAP	Sgent	Aug 2012	#78
Need to pay attention to the number needed treat to have even a small effect.	Emillereid	Aug 2012	#82
This message was hidden by jury decision.	SoapBox	Aug 2012	#68
I wonder how quickly that post would get hidden	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#85
Wonder how many people get papillomavirus (HPV) via oral n/t	AlphaCentauri	Aug 2012	#69
They should have their mouths cut out at birth for their own protection.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#90
At least they wouldn't blame uncircumcised men n/t	AlphaCentauri	Aug 2012	#157
They can have my sons' foreskins when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#71
Doctors' Circumcision Recommendations Influenced By Personal Factors, Study Finds	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#77
More than Foreskin: Circumcision Status, History of HIV/STI, and Sexual Risk in a Clinic-Based	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#79
"When bad science kills, or how to spread AIDS" by Brian D. Earp	idwiyo	Aug 2012	#84
Than you for this link	unc70	Aug 2012	#94
One more reason for me to know that my penis is AWESOME! n/t	Ian David	Aug 2012	#102
Christopher Hitchens on circumcision	Brainstormy	Aug 2012	#106
Neonatal nurse writing on circumcision	Brainstormy	Aug 2012	#107
I don't see how anyone can support this	cpwm17	Aug 2012	#129
My sons were alright during the procedure	Nikia	Aug 2012	#144
I actually laughed at one part of this	GaYellowDawg	Aug 2012	#173
Well it's a good thing you're circumcised	cpwm17	Aug 2012	#189
Agreed. Fully. nt	Union Scribe	Aug 2012	#241
"<cut> "	Remmah2	Aug 2012	#109
When will people stop treating this propaganda as though it were "news"?	JackRiddler	Aug 2012	#118
Cranking up the popcorn maker...	ElboRuum	Aug 2012	#122
We haven't had a Chuggo thread in a while...	ElboRuum	Aug 2012	#124
So condoms don't stop those things?	Alduin	Aug 2012	#132
I can only go on my on experience...	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#137
+1 not to mention -i like being cut.	xchrom	Aug 2012	#151
Weird thought, but not everything is about you.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#164
Gee, sorry for sharing.	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#185
The topic of this thread is not your penis.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#188
Yeah, and I get tired of anti-circumcision fanatics.	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#192
Favoring a form of penis with which boys are born is not	closeupready	Aug 2012	#193
Going on and on about a topic that excites a mere handful of people smacks of fanatacism.	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#220
On this issue, it's the tiny minority of fanatics who spew 99% of the venom.	apocalypsehow	Aug 2012	#244
Take your religious sideshow and hocus-pocus elsewhere.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#245
I'll take the voice of reason right where I please, thank you very much.	apocalypsehow	Aug 2012	#247
just when gonorrhea is becoming incurable.	pansypoo53219	Aug 2012	#138
If the science is sound, then young men -	Hell Hath No Fury	Aug 2012	#155
Removing the penis entirely would eliminate STDs and unwanted pregnancies entirely	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#156
that doesn't even make sense...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#202
No it wouldn't	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#208
notice all of that says to give parents the information and let them decide...	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#214
It actually says that circumcision is not advisable	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#215
I personly don't care...leave it up to parents and their doctor....	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#217
I would second guess anyone making permanent medical decisions	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#218
I made my position clear and you parse my words..	Green_Lantern	Aug 2012	#224
Or more often based on consulting their religious figure of choice	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#225
"looks better" - well, there's a first for everything, I suppose.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#226
"His body, his choice."	closeupready	Aug 2012	#163
Q: how do you get a progressive to argue for religion trumping personal choice?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#216
Yeah, funny how that works.	closeupready	Aug 2012	#223
Except for medical emergencies, intentional amputation should always be	ZombieHorde	Aug 2012	#168
16 states' Medicaid programs don't pay for elective infant circumcision.	Butterbean	Aug 2012	#175
18 states.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#231
I suspected as much. It read that way. Thank you. n/t	Butterbean	Aug 2012	#243
I had daughters so in the end I didn't have to worry about this	gollygee	Aug 2012	#176
Anti-circ RN	EllkayRN	Aug 2012	#232
Thank you for sharing your perspectives and experiences on this thread.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#233
Excellent points from an informed source. Thank you and	annabanana	Aug 2012	#234
Baloney! All debunked, and licences ought to be stripped.	ilikeitthatway	Aug 2012	#235
Routine circumcision came to America thanks to a Christian fundamentalist	ilikeitthatway	Aug 2012	#238
"Plain Facts for Old and Young" by John Harvey Kellog. The scientific thinking	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2012	#239
Barbaric mutiliation with no good reason to do it. Only religious insanity.	Manifestor_of_Light	Aug 2012	#240
Whatever.	kwassa	Aug 2012	#248
She obviously thinks mutiliating her son is good, then.	Manifestor_of_Light	Aug 2012	#249
She obviously doesn't think it is mutilation.	kwassa	Aug 2012	#251
It IS mutilation no matter what she thinks.	Manifestor_of_Light	Aug 2012	#253
I don't think it is mutilation either.	kwassa	Aug 2012	#256
The same could be said for any kind of mutilation	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#254
Civilized countries allow circumcision.	kwassa	Aug 2012	#257
And in this case they're wrong	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#258
I've been silent on this issue long enough - and I know you are all dying to hear my opinion :)	cabot	Aug 2012	#246
People circumcise because it seems normal to them.	Nine	Aug 2012	#255
The origins of circumsism.....	E_A_	Aug 2012	#259
It's not always about religion.	Nine	Aug 2012	#260
Info	E_A_	Aug 2012	#261

Response to Sgent (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:17 PM

KG (23,281 posts)

Benefits of male circumcision reconfirmed as rates decline

1. ...

5. I can see the ad campaign. "Don't get sick. Trim your dick." nt

22. Don't be silly, slice that willy!

25. Am I wrong to laugh??? :-)

29. Don't be a cod, trim that rod!

81. Don't be a fool, clip that tool!

91. It isn't wrong to snip that schlong.

165. Someone! Quick! There's a Hackensack joke just waiting

38. O

45. It doesn't make any sense to me and I doubt it's true.

49. +1

70. go

93. There is no "hormonal link" between a bit of foreskin and the brain.

113. b

140. It's certainly as well documented as the effect on menstrual cycles that the moon bombing had.

154. Moon bombing? When did that happen? I do remember people blaming excessive rain on moon landings

177. An epic thread.

127. Fl

57. I think it's crap

131. v

61. losing a foreskin makes a man less able to bond with a woman? then its true. a man's

104. Not to mention that the man will mourn the loss of the foreskin for the rest of his life.....

62. Utter codswallop.

89. Intercourse is different, not sure about bonding

130. U

95. This sounds like industrial strength woo to me.

100. +1 Epic woo. Crazy talk. nt

121. So

96. With all due respect, opinions on penises from nonmedical women

119. po

141. Why is it a sin to eat lobster and pork?

143. e

101. Critical thinking is important.

117. A

152. Your source isn't an endocrinologist either, he's a fucking loon

153. I wondered about that and the poster probably knows that.

103. "Internet lecture"........"the gentleman cited studies but I didn't write them down."

115. G

125. If you have sources cite them. Close-minded is making assertions without attribution.

134. d

108. you should get slammed for that shit.

128. F

135. Ya know - calling people who disagree "close-minded" is kind of rude.

142. click

123. No ban...

126. pi

150. Halfpasthuman.com?

2. Does it make it any easier to shave?

3. Oh, Lordy.. If only I had a pitbull to hide behind at the Olive Garden while breast feeding openly.

12. Chicken thread! Chicken thread!

14. You leave your corn flakes out of it!

4. And UTI's can occur without symptoms and cause permanent kidney damage.

6. eh

20. I have a good friend who converted to Islam and married a Muslim young woman.

39. That's because up until around 10 days old or so

72. A reliable link to back up that statement about no nerve endings?

116. Nonsense

139. That's been debunked

145. If there's no nerve endings how do they feel that it is cold?

169. Could be possible.

170. You can provide sources that prove babies don't feel pain?

174. Oh, wonderful, a poster who puts straw men in their subject line.

180. The question was on whether or not it hurts the child

182. That does not justify the straw man in the reply title.

184. I was trying to stay on topic

148. Bull.

105. Eh...

110. He did if he wanted to marry his bride.

147. It was a choice he made as an adult

159. Well no--it wasn't a choice because he would have had to abandon his bride.

160. Unless someone put a gun to his head he had a choice to marry or not marry that woman

161. Well, you might be one of the rare few people who thinks getting married is like buying a loaf of

162. You feel marriage is not a choice?

178. The suggestion was that being forced to NOT marry was acceptable.

181. You say it wasn't a choice

187. If you think "choosing" to marry or not, once a person is engaged, is an actual choice, I feel sorry

190. This is surreal

194. male circumcision is no more mutilation than any surgery....

195. If a doctor performed FGM would it not be mutilation?