Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:39 PM
underpants (105,621 posts)
Publisher pulls Jefferson book over inaccuracies (David Barton's "The Jefferson Lies")Last edited Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:39 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Source: MSNBC
A best-seller about Thomas Jefferson by an influential Tea Party and evangelical figure has been recalled after the publisher announced on Thursday that it has detected factual inaccuracies in the book. Nashville-based evangelical publisher Thomas Nelson is no longer shipping any copies to retailers of “The Jefferson Lies’’ by David Barton and is recalling existing copies from brick-and-mortar retailers. It also has requested to online booksellers that they no longer sell the e-book version and has removed the book from its own website. The book is still being sold on Amazon. Barton argues in the book that Jefferson was an orthodox evangelical and not an anti-Christian secularist. In addition to the book by Throckmorton and Coulter refuting that claim with historical evidence, religious scholar Greg Forster wrote a piece, “David Barton’s Errors,” that details the errors in the book and says Barton’s “inability to write reliable history stretches beyond ideological cheerleading into outright incompetence.” “It’s clear that even the evangelical community is starting to see David Barton for what he is — a propagandist who distorts history for political and ideological purposes,’’ TFN President Kathy Miller told Daily Kos. “The question is now, will politicians and pundits who have promoted his views have the integrity to follow suit and repudiate Barton?" Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/48617599/ns/today-books/
Author David Barton at the 2004 Republican National Convention at Madison Square Garden in New York. David Barton on The Daily Show http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-may-1-2012/david-barton
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50 replies, 6126 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | OP | |
| mzteris | Aug 2012 | #1 | |
| Smilo | Aug 2012 | #2 | |
| KamaAina | Aug 2012 | #3 | |
| JackRiddler | Aug 2012 | #10 | |
| randome | Aug 2012 | #44 | |
| KamaAina | Aug 2012 | #47 | |
| JackRiddler | Aug 2012 | #48 | |
| Politicalboi | Aug 2012 | #4 | |
| ErikJ | Aug 2012 | #7 | |
| TheMadMonk | Aug 2012 | #29 | |
| xchrom | Aug 2012 | #5 | |
| SoapBox | Aug 2012 | #6 | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | #15 | |
| Curmudgeoness | Aug 2012 | #8 | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | #14 | |
| Curmudgeoness | Aug 2012 | #23 | |
| bucolic_frolic | Aug 2012 | #9 | |
| bedazzled | Aug 2012 | #38 | |
| southernyankeebelle | Aug 2012 | #11 | |
| GoneOffShore | Aug 2012 | #18 | |
| southernyankeebelle | Aug 2012 | #21 | |
| DeSwiss | Aug 2012 | #12 | |
| valerief | Aug 2012 | #27 | |
| WinstonSmith4740 | Aug 2012 | #13 | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | #16 | |
| Sherman A1 | Aug 2012 | #17 | |
| ThomThom | Aug 2012 | #19 | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | #20 | |
| ThomThom | Aug 2012 | #26 | |
| heaven05 | Aug 2012 | #28 | |
| alp227 | Aug 2012 | #40 | |
| ThomThom | Aug 2012 | #43 | |
| LiberalFighter | Aug 2012 | #46 | |
| underpants | Aug 2012 | #50 | |
| tanyev | Aug 2012 | #22 | |
| Historic NY | Aug 2012 | #24 | |
| heaven05 | Aug 2012 | #25 | |
| DeSwiss | Aug 2012 | #30 | |
| Citizen Worker | Aug 2012 | #31 | |
| Uncle Joe | Aug 2012 | #32 | |
| Judi Lynn | Aug 2012 | #33 | |
| ronnie624 | Aug 2012 | #37 | |
| Godot51 | Aug 2012 | #34 | |
| Jack Sprat | Aug 2012 | #35 | |
| caveat_imperator | Aug 2012 | #36 | |
| rucky | Aug 2012 | #39 | |
| and-justice-for-all | Aug 2012 | #41 | |
| and-justice-for-all | Aug 2012 | #42 | |
| WinkyDink | Aug 2012 | #45 | |
| 47of74 | Aug 2012 | #49 |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:40 PM
mzteris (15,980 posts)
1. my dog knows more about real history than Barton.
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he's been dinged for plagiary and just plain making shit up before.
He is a complete buffoon who doesn't deserve the moniker "historian" nor "author" |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:41 PM
Smilo (1,886 posts)
2. About time this POS
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lying ass was brought up on his rewriting of history - amazing it was an evangelical publisher that is doing this.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:43 PM
KamaAina (45,246 posts)
3. Shame on TDS for promoting that bilge
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I'm surprised to find out the publisher wasn't Simon and Schuster (owned by Viacom, as is Comedy Central). That's usually where his crappiest guests come from.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:55 PM
JackRiddler (19,342 posts)
10. TDS mostly promotes bilge, did you just discover that?
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Whatever the conventional "centrist" thinking is, there they will dare to tread. The war criminal Condoleezza Rice took her book on tour with Stewart. A thoroughly disgusting state of affairs.
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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #10)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 06:46 PM
randome (12,748 posts)
44. Bullshit.
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Sometimes he has crap guests with their agendas and sometimes he doesn't. He doesn't run his show to please you or anyone else.
I'm not saying this as a 'fan' of Jon Stewart because I dislike the term. It's just the truth. Sometimes Stewart is spot on with his guests, sometimes he isn't. |
Response to randome (Reply #44)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 08:51 PM
KamaAina (45,246 posts)
47. That's just it. They aren't necessarily Jon's guests.
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Viacom picks them. Quite often they're people who have books to flog, usually Simon and Schuster's.
You can tell when Jon really likes a guest. S/he gets to come back after the break for an extra five minutes on the Web. |
Response to randome (Reply #44)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 09:59 PM
JackRiddler (19,342 posts)
48. Condoleezza Rice.
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Tony Blair.
These are criminals. They get powder-puff treatment. It's also an extremely pro-military show. He's made his ideology clear enough. He had a march in Washington and held a speech. He's for the false centrism that would exonerate the war criminals. The first 10 minutes of the show are usually cool. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:44 PM
Politicalboi (9,486 posts)
4. Maybe he can sell his shit
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At the Grand Canyon right next to that Creationist crap they allow to be sold.
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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #4)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:52 PM
ErikJ (2,691 posts)
7. What? In the national park Bookstore?
Response to ErikJ (Reply #7)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
TheMadMonk (5,786 posts)
29. The creationist museum. /nt
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:50 PM
SoapBox (5,825 posts)
6. Rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat...
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That's the name of the game. Repeat the lies over and over and over...some dolts will eventually believe it to be the truth.
SO how many copies of this garbage are already floating around in the world? I don't see anything in the article. It's almost laughable how they did the recall...maybe they should have announced, "...we've poisoned a few thousand minds and that's enough for now." The Crazy is running wild. |
Response to SoapBox (Reply #6)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:09 PM
underpants (105,621 posts)
15. I saw someone reading it at our pool 2 months ago
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I thought about saying to this guy (who I don't know) "Do you know anything about the author of that book?" but then he may have been reading it....well I gave him the benefit of the doubt as unlikely as that is.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:53 PM
Curmudgeoness (10,502 posts)
8. The publisher should have checked facts
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prior to putting money into publishing it. Instead, they wait until someone else checks for them. Too bad. What a POS!
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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #8)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:06 PM
underpants (105,621 posts)
14. Hey! Look! we edit but....we don't really edit it ifyouknowwhatI'msayin'
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“Although we do carefully edit every book we publish, Thomas Nelson relies on the expertise of our authors concerning their subjects,”
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Response to underpants (Reply #14)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:36 PM
Curmudgeoness (10,502 posts)
23. LOL, I have an idea for a book.....I think I found the publisher
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that is just right for it. You see, I don't want anyone to look too carefully at what I write.
This is one way to make your company look the fool. But when an author costs you money, hopefully that author is history instead of historian. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:55 PM
bucolic_frolic (708 posts)
9. Seriously flawed logic and interpretation
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One must publish a seriously flawed book to have it recalled.
I can only think of two that I remember being recalled. One was the Clifford Irving "autobiography" of Howard Hughes. The other an obscure biography of one of the Rockefellers. Freedom of the press is great, but Freedom of the press tempered by fact and objective truth is something better. |
Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #9)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:06 AM
bedazzled (638 posts)
38. i remember a book being recalled - it was about george w. bush
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it was called "fortunate son" by j. hatfield.
it had a lot of truth in it so much that hatfield ended up dead... so a book doesn't have to be flawed to be recalled... |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:56 PM
southernyankeebelle (10,725 posts)
11. I sure hope this is the beginning of the end of this guy Barton. What a liar.
Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:15 PM
GoneOffShore (11,129 posts)
18. Zoological Shame.
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When I hear about Barton, I'm overwhelmed with a sense of shame that people like him are actually walking around talking out of their asses.
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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #18)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:29 PM
southernyankeebelle (10,725 posts)
21. Yes your right.
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:59 PM
DeSwiss (17,218 posts)
12. So it took these IDIOTS at Thomas Nelson.....
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Last edited Fri Aug 10, 2012, 07:59 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) ...five months AFTER they published this garbage to find factual errors in it???
- KMA-Thomas Nelson
K&R |
Response to DeSwiss (Reply #12)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:54 PM
valerief (35,681 posts)
27. Fact-checking is soooooo 20th century.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:03 PM
WinstonSmith4740 (740 posts)
13. Let's see if I have this right.
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This publisher printed and distributed this piece of crap obviously without proof-reading, or for that matter, reading it at all. He gets a book written by a Tea Party/Republican operative and depends "...on the expertise of our authors concerning their subjects", instead of, you know, actually fact checking for historical accuracy. Then after it gets out there and becomes a best seller, decides there are enough inaccuracies to pull it off the shelves. This was about Jefferson for cryin' out loud, not some obscure, shadowy figure from colonial America.
This stinks, but what else do you expect from the RW? |
Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #13)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:10 PM
underpants (105,621 posts)
16. I would say that you have it right
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spot on
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:15 PM
Sherman A1 (11,560 posts)
17. I listened to a review of this book
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on the Thomas Jefferson Hour and it in a very kind and gentle way called the book exactly what it is...............
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:17 PM
ThomThom (1,390 posts)
19. another example of the right trying to rewrite history
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to better suit them
text books are another example |
Response to ThomThom (Reply #19)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:24 PM
underpants (105,621 posts)
20. I would bet you $100 the Texas School Board buys this book in massive numbers
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If I am wrong Thom let me know. I will donate it to any charity you want.
BTW- Aug 9th was 17 years since Jerry passed. I grew up 10 minutes from Hampton. By brother saw about 200 shows. |
Response to underpants (Reply #20)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:45 PM
ThomThom (1,390 posts)
26. I don't think I can take that bet Pants
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they probably are putting them on the shelf as we speak
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Response to ThomThom (Reply #19)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:55 PM
heaven05 (2,372 posts)
28. sad
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very, very sad and dangerous common practice by the right wing. textbook publishers are purging the Vietnam conflict at the behest of RWers. I've got to talk to more high school students but I was very surprised they did not have it mentioned in class or text. They only know because of old farts like me.
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Response to ThomThom (Reply #19)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 12:38 PM
alp227 (20,488 posts)
40. Did you hear NPR's hard hitting profile of Barton?
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http://www.npr.org/2012/08/08/157754542/the-most-influential-evangelist-youve-never-heard-of
Eden other evangelicals can't stand him. |
Response to alp227 (Reply #40)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 06:29 PM
ThomThom (1,390 posts)
43. I had not seen that ...thanks
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can't believe the book was even published
where was the editor, fact checker, etc the bible quotes alone would have it in the trash |
Response to alp227 (Reply #40)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 08:37 PM
LiberalFighter (31,082 posts)
46. I heard it this week.
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Glad I caught it.
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Response to alp227 (Reply #40)
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:44 AM
underpants (105,621 posts)
50. Huckabee wants Americans to be forced to listen to Barton at gun point
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"I almost wish that there would be like a simultaneous telecast," Huckabee said at a conference last year, "and all Americans will be forced, forced — at gunpoint, no less — to listen to every David Barton message. And I think our country will be better for it."
Thanks for the link. I read the story - even checked out his claims about Articles 2 and 3 myself - I will listen to the audio later. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:32 PM
tanyev (22,103 posts)
22. He should repudiated just for the hideous shirt he's wearing in that photo.
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I don't think Garth Brooks even wears crap like that anymore.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:39 PM
Historic NY (19,737 posts)
24. Well Bartons going to be in courts but he is going to be heavily discredited..
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 08:41 PM
heaven05 (2,372 posts)
25. a repug/tea party thug
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even the evangelical right had to question this revisionism. Some kids now don't even know there was a conflict in Viet Nam. It's been completely purged from history lessons: huh: well you know what Santayana said....
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Response to heaven05 (Reply #25)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
DeSwiss (17,218 posts)
30. He said:
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''Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience.''
George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905 |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:14 PM
Citizen Worker (1,785 posts)
31. Rightfully this should end Barton's career as an expert witness in any court proceeding.
Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:18 PM
Uncle Joe (24,997 posts)
32. Kudos to Thomas Nelson for pulling the book., distorting history serves no good purpose.
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Thanks for the thread, underpants.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:24 PM
Judi Lynn (77,643 posts)
33. That picture you've attached is impossibly ugly! The Texas Republican Party must be unbelievable.
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The faces in the photo look as if they are above absolutely NOTHING in pursuit of their goals.
That kind of stupidity which has overtaken their faces is unnatural. |
Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #33)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 03:00 AM
ronnie624 (3,692 posts)
37. Local candidates for office openly brag about being "Tea Party approved" in their campaign ads.
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Rational discussion of political issues is rare in these parts.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 09:49 PM
Godot51 (145 posts)
34. What do you expect...
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... from a "people" who want to rewrite their own scripture because they cannot live up to the expectations of their religion, their savior and their god?
We live in a world of hacks. David Barton will not be the last revisionist, alas. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 01:38 AM
Jack Sprat (2,500 posts)
35. Unsurprised about the distortion of history
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but why was it a best-seller to begin with? I guess the conserva-quacks don't mind wasting their time reading make-believe books. Why doesn't he write a book detailing Old Hickory's lifelong pursuit of defending Native American lands? That's probably next.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 02:12 AM
caveat_imperator (193 posts)
36. This charlatan has a collection of 100000 documents from before 1812.
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How many of them has he altered or destroyed because they show his view of American history is entirely wrong?
I'm concerned for those papers. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:19 AM
rucky (35,003 posts)
39. At least the title of the book was accurate
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The Jefferson Lies
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 04:12 PM
and-justice-for-all (14,763 posts)
41. A Teahadist trying to rewrite history??
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I wish I could say I am shocked.
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Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 04:15 PM
and-justice-for-all (14,763 posts)
42. Jefferson was in fact a Deist
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not a bible thumping neanderthal, he also did not believe in any of the magic that litters the bible and so he wrote "The Jefferson Bible" which brought jeebus down to earth and nothing more than a man.
When facts are not on your side, all you can do is LIE LIE LIE. |
Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
WinkyDink (37,068 posts)
45. They will SAY ANYTHING.
Response to underpants (Original post)
Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:17 PM
47of74 (6,661 posts)
49. I suggest the books be converted into the following substance...
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- KMA-Thomas Nelson