Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funeral Protests
Source: Huffington Post
President Barack Obama signed the Honoring Americas Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 into law on Monday, providing a wide-ranging package of benefits to military personnel and enacting new restrictions on protests of service member funerals.
'We have a moral sacred duty to our men and women in uniform,' Obama said before signing the bill, according to a pool report. 'The graves of our veterans are hallowed grounds.'
The new law will have strong implications for the Westboro Baptist Church, a Kansas-based organization which the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League have labeled a hate group. Westboro Baptist Church has drawn media attention for its brand of protest, which frequently links the deaths of soldiers to America's growing acceptance of gays.
Under the new legislation, protests must be held at least 300 feet from military funerals and are prohibited two hours before or after a service. The law counters a 2011 Supreme Court ruling, which found that displays such as Westboro's were protected under the First Amendment.
Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/honoring-americas-veterans-act-obama_n_1748454.html
The Rightists are going to go nuts about their rights being restricted.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...as much as I hate to say it, those evil fuckers have a right to say whatever is on their minds...no matter how ugly or disrespectful it is...
As despicable as these people are, they still have a 1st Amendment right to express their views. This is a slippery slope that should be overturned by the courts.
gopiscrap
(23,733 posts)it seems as if they're using the Westboro ass hats as a vehicle to suppress others free speech as much as I can't stand those fuckers, (so much so that when they said they were coming to Tacoma to protest the Poweel boys' funeral, myself and one other person arranged to have 4000+ present to counter act these fuckstains) they're just as entitled as I am to spout off!
malthaussen
(17,183 posts)... there is no such thing as a little bit pregnant. The politics of this are going to be real fun: military, death, Bill of Rights. Ultimately, you can't legislate respect.
-- Mal
Loudestlib
(980 posts)No one is telling them they can't say what they want to. They can sit on their porches and say what ever they like. We can and do regulate public speaking and that is what this bill does.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Which does in fact, violate a First Amendment issue.
What are you talking about? lol Okay, please explain in detail how regulating when and where speech takes place violates the First Amendment...this should be good.
are you for real?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
Please explain how this is not an abridgement of free speech.
Look the government can and does place restrictions on time, place, and manner. You can't just walk down the middle the street because you have something to say. You can try to get a permit and have a parade. That is regulated speech.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)In the case of a parade, it would block traffic and in a large city, that would mean thousands of cars.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Government can impose "reasonable" restrictions, but only if those restrictions are imposed on everyone. For example you can ban people from being within 200 feet of a funereal, if that ban applies to EVERYONE, including people driving down the street just passing the funereal home on their way home to work or elsewhere. You can ban people from walking on the sidewalks, but that includes anyone walking, including people walking by the funeral home to get to their own home.
Now, Cities can demand you get a permit to use a public area for a protest, if the protest is in some form that is not the normal day to day use of that public area, for example a City can require a permit for a parade, but if you just want to drive all of your groups cars down the public street as part of traffic, obeying the traffic laws, but having signs on every car, the city can NOT require you to have a permit.
That is the problem for most funerals, the funeral home is on a main street often with a sidewalk. If someone wants to walk up and down that sidewalk with a sign and signing slogans, it can only be ban, if the city BANS ANYONE AN EVERYONE FROM DOING THAT ALL THE TIME. If there is no sidewalk, people have the right to walk on the public road for the same reason.
This comes up in the abortion clinic cases all the time. Reasonable restrictions are permitted, but
In Brown vs Pittsburgh
http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/081819p.pdf
In Brown vs Pittsburgh the The Federal Third Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that:
The Ordinance established two different kinds of zones around hospitals, medical offices, and clinics. Within the buffer zone, which extends fifteen feet (15') from any entrance to the hospital and or [sic] health care facility, [n]o person or persons shall knowingly congregate, patrol, picket or demonstrate. § 623.04. For convenience, we use the term the City to refer collectively to Defendants the City of Pittsburgh, the Pittsburgh City Council, and Luke Ravenstahl, in his official capacity as Mayor of Pittsburgh.
The bubble zone encompasses the public way or sidewalk area within a radius of one hundred feet (100') from any entrance door to a hospital and/or medical office/clinic. § 623.03. Within this one-hundred-foot zone, [n]o person shall knowingly approach another person within eight feet (8') of such person, unless such other person consents, for the purpose of passing a leaftlet or handbill to, displaying a sign to, or engaging in oral protest, education or counseling with such other person. Id.
The court upheld that the "Buffer zone" And the "Bubble zone" were constitutional, but NOT BOTH TOGETHER. The problem was balancing the right of being able to protest AND freedom of movement. Each separately could still permit the protesters to have they say, and still give people sufficient freedom of movement, but together impose to much restriction on freedom of Speech. Notice the "Buffer zone" was only 15 feet, and the "Bubble Zone" was 100 feet, but in that "Bubble Zone" you could move to someone, stand and protest, just NOT come near to someone closer then 8 feet.
The Key case on this subject is the Federal US Supreme Court Case of Madsen v. Women's Health Ctr. (93-880), 512 U.S. 753 (1994).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-880.ZO.html
The US Supreme Court ruled the following, upholding and overturning a trial court court order to protesters at an abortion clinic. The key, to the court, was this is was in regard to a Hospital, thus noise restrictions could be imposed by a court order, but NOT image restrictions and any buffer zone restriction had to be narrowly made to ensure freedom of movement without interfering excessively with Free Speech. Please note this is a review of a COURT ORDER not a Statute, and a Court Order the Court assumed was narrowly drawn so that to minimize interference with the Free Speech:
In sum, we uphold the noise restrictions and the 36 foot buffer zone around the clinic entrances and driveway because they burden no more speech than necessary to eliminate the unlawful conduct targeted by the state court's injunction. We strike down as unconstitutional the 36-foot buffer zone as applied to the private property to the north and west of the clinic, the "images observable" provision, the 300 foot no approach zone around the clinic, and the 300 foot buffer zone around the residences, because these provisions sweep more broadly than necessary to accomplish the permissible goals of the injunction. Accordingly, the judgment of the Florida Supreme Court is
Affirmed in part, and reversed in part.
Some comments the Court made in the opinion:
The inclusion of private property on the back and side of the clinic in the 36 foot buffer zone raises different concerns. The accepted purpose of the buffer zone is to protect access to the clinic and to facilitate the orderly flow of traffic on Dixie Way. Patients and staff wishing to reach the clinic do not have to cross the private property abutting the clinic property on the north and west, and nothing in the record indicates that petitioners' activities on the private property have obstructed access to the clinic. Nor was evidence presented that protestors located on the private property blocked vehicular traffic on Dixie Way. Absent evidence that petitioners standing on the private property have obstructed access to the clinic, blocked vehicular traffic, or otherwise unlawfully interfered with the clinic's operation, this portion of the buffer zone fails to serve the significant government interests relied on by the Florida Supreme Court. We hold that on the record before us the 36 foot buffer zone as applied to the private property to the north and west of the clinic burdens more speech than necessary to protect access to the clinic.....
We hold that the limited noise restrictions imposed by the state court order burden no more speech than necessary to ensure the health and well being of the patients at the clinic. The First Amendment does not demand that patients at a medical facility undertake Herculean efforts to escape the cacophony of political protests. "If overamplified loudspeakers assault the citizenry, government may turn then down." Grayned, supra, at 116. That is what the state court did here, and we hold that its action was proper.
The same, however, cannot be said for the "images observable" provision of the state court's order. Clearly, threats to patients or their families, however communicated, are proscribable under the First Amendment. But rather than prohibiting the display of signs that could be interpreted as threats or veiled threats, the state court issued a blanket ban on all "images observable." This broad prohibition on all "images observable" burdens more speech than necessary to achieve the purpose of limiting threats to clinic patients or their families. Similarly, if the blanket ban on "images observable" was intended to reduce the level of anxiety and hypertension suffered by the patients inside the clinic, it would still fail. The only plausible reason a patient would be bothered by "images observable" inside the clinic would be if the patient found the expression contained in such images disagreeable. But it is much easier for the clinic to pull its curtains than for a patient to stop up her ears, and no more is required to avoid seeing placards through the windows of the clinic. This provision of the injunction violates the First Amendment.
Notice the court was interested in both freedom of movement AND free speech, and any restrictions on Free Speech must fall unless it is the bare minimum needed to permit freedom of movement. In the case of Military funerals, how can a 200 feet buffer zone truly balance those two freedoms? I am sorry, the more I read the Court Cases, a 200 feet buffer zone is to much restriction on Free Speech and thus unconstitutional.
One more comment, Scalia and Thomas dissented in Madsen v. Women's Health Center, on the grounds the restrictions on free speech was to great and should have been over turned. When this comes to the Supreme Court, will Scalia and Thomas vote to overturn it as their dissent indicate they would on such restrictions on freedom of Speech? Only time will tell.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Harrassing people and disturbing the peace is outside the boundaries of the 1st amendment.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)See my post above or Madsen v. Women's Health below:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-880.ZO.html
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Not a First Amendment violation.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...can you show me where that RESTRICTION is?
tabasco
(22,974 posts)You should learn a little bit before you make yourself look ignorant.
Here's someplace to start:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/timeplacemanner.htm
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...because I can't find them...
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Bragi
(7,650 posts)I presume this law will eventually be declared a violation of the right to free speech. This is just legislative pandering.
24601
(3,958 posts)judge it to have constitutional deficiencies. But there is that pesky election approaching.
And I absolutely loathe the WBC. So much so that if it were constitutional, I'd personally favor strong legislation protecting them so that anyone shooting a WBC asshole (in the act of disrupting a funeral) would receive a stiff penalty - along the lines of a $5, maybe even a $10 fine.
But my oath to uphold the Constitution takes precedence over my personal desires.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Why "protests must be held at least 300 feet from military funerals and are prohibited two hours before or after a service."? Why not "Protests must be held at least 300 feet from funerals and etc etc."?
Speaking of right wing, which party is it that thinks everyone are citizens, but some people are more citizens than others?
littlewolf
(3,813 posts)and will probably be overturned ... (as it should be)
I think if they only regulated the distance from the
funeral it may have worked ... (and this can be handled
via state or local law) but the when before/after
the service ... I don't think it will pass muster ....
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Yes, I get the concern about the 1st, and it is unfortunate that we have to legislate what should be common decency, but this couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.
obamanut2012
(26,049 posts)PSPS
(13,583 posts)This is just intended to give everyone "cred" with the military fetishists. You see, here is how it works:
1. To be considered a serious political entity, you must proclaim you are a "christian." **
2. To be considered a serious political entity, you must treat anyone in the military as "special" and worthy of not only special treatment but special reverence, and neither can be bestowed on anyone else lest it detract from that "specialness."
** - Saint Ronnie was exempted from this because, well, he's special!
Enrique
(27,461 posts)bpollen
(110 posts)that if they can restrict me from coming into your neighborhood at 3am with my bullhorn and reciting Gaelic poetry for a few hours, they certainly should be able to restrict when the WBC can start spinning their heads and spitting pea-soup... (and, unlike Linda Blair, they really ARE evil.)
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and hope that it's overturned, much as I loathe the WBC's antics.