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Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:12 PM

Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

Source: abc.com

A mass shooting has occurred at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., this morning.

At least four people have been reported injured in the mass shooting and no suspect has been identified.

The incident reportedly occurred around 10:45 a.m. at the temple, just outside of Milwaukee.

According to information broadcast over police radio, a witness to the shooting told law enforcement the shooter was a white male, bald, with a heavy build. He was wearing a sleeveless T-shirt, according to Oak Creek Patch. He was last seen with two handguns.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-oak-creek-sikh-temple-milwaukee-oak-creek/story?id=16933779#.UB6pHk1lTP8

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Reply Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin (Original post)
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 OP
villager Aug 2012 #1
grahamhgreen Aug 2012 #10
Keefer Aug 2012 #29
nichomachus Aug 2012 #50
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #97
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #173
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #176
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #181
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #183
RC Aug 2012 #98
villager Aug 2012 #131
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #2
CJCRANE Aug 2012 #71
otohara Aug 2012 #3
alfredo Aug 2012 #4
JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #57
BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #59
alfredo Aug 2012 #114
Skittles Aug 2012 #125
GliderGuider Aug 2012 #155
alfredo Aug 2012 #171
Smilo Aug 2012 #5
slackmaster Aug 2012 #6
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #14
AlbertCat Aug 2012 #20
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #7
Posteritatis Aug 2012 #9
scarletwoman Aug 2012 #18
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #24
yardwork Aug 2012 #52
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #54
GoCubsGo Aug 2012 #101
arely staircase Aug 2012 #140
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #148
JI7 Aug 2012 #151
madrchsod Aug 2012 #110
sarge43 Aug 2012 #22
Posteritatis Aug 2012 #23
harun Aug 2012 #34
lonestarnot Aug 2012 #66
Shankapotomus Aug 2012 #73
TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #8
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #16
TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #17
patrice Aug 2012 #113
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #11
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #51
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #61
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #84
UnrepentantLiberal Aug 2012 #62
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #104
KamaAina Aug 2012 #78
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #83
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #116
mysuzuki2 Aug 2012 #12
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #28
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #13
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #15
Adsos Letter Aug 2012 #27
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #35
xchrom Aug 2012 #19
Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #21
AlbertCat Aug 2012 #25
Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #36
AlbertCat Aug 2012 #42
Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #46
azurnoir Aug 2012 #90
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #99
azurnoir Aug 2012 #117
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #122
azurnoir Aug 2012 #128
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #134
exboyfil Aug 2012 #108
coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #161
harun Aug 2012 #38
Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #39
AlbertCat Aug 2012 #48
Don C. Nuttin Aug 2012 #55
harun Aug 2012 #103
DesertRat Aug 2012 #85
azurnoir Aug 2012 #86
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independentpiney Aug 2012 #120
2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #26
twizzler Aug 2012 #32
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #138
twizzler Aug 2012 #149
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #41
Zoeisright Aug 2012 #56
Plucketeer Aug 2012 #82
DBoon Aug 2012 #92
primavera Aug 2012 #146
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #162
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2012 #30
ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #31
Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #33
ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #37
Botany Aug 2012 #40
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #43
bluedigger Aug 2012 #47
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #64
DBoon Aug 2012 #93
TahitiNut Aug 2012 #106
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #118
Heather MC Aug 2012 #65
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #174
Jessy169 Aug 2012 #80
PavePusher Aug 2012 #87
Care Acutely Aug 2012 #121
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #127
Jessy169 Aug 2012 #139
RedStateLiberal Aug 2012 #44
yardwork Aug 2012 #133
IcyPeas Aug 2012 #45
auntAgonist Aug 2012 #49
iamthebandfanman Aug 2012 #53
Jessy169 Aug 2012 #144
slackmaster Aug 2012 #169
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #163
slackmaster Aug 2012 #167
WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2012 #58
Shadowflash Aug 2012 #60
TahitiNut Aug 2012 #88
JoeyT Aug 2012 #172
gasser85 Aug 2012 #130
Shadowflash Aug 2012 #132
citizen blues Aug 2012 #63
lonestarnot Aug 2012 #69
UnrepentantLiberal Aug 2012 #67
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #68
onehandle Aug 2012 #70
slackmaster Aug 2012 #76
Hissyspit Aug 2012 #72
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #74
Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #75
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #77
ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2012 #79
BootinUp Aug 2012 #81
hue Aug 2012 #89
handmade34 Aug 2012 #94
revolution breeze Aug 2012 #105
blaze Aug 2012 #150
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #177
revolution breeze Aug 2012 #189
Archae Aug 2012 #96
Whoa_Nelly Aug 2012 #100
alfredo Aug 2012 #115
Iliyah Aug 2012 #102
onehandle Aug 2012 #107
Archae Aug 2012 #111
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #178
Archae Aug 2012 #179
patrice Aug 2012 #109
AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #112
GliderGuider Aug 2012 #124
primavera Aug 2012 #142
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #129
primavera Aug 2012 #147
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #153
AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #154
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #156
BanTheGOP Aug 2012 #119
Codeine Aug 2012 #145
liberalhistorian Aug 2012 #160
JI7 Aug 2012 #165
slackmaster Aug 2012 #168
MindMover Aug 2012 #123
Tx4obama Aug 2012 #126
brewens Aug 2012 #135
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #141
primavera Aug 2012 #136
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #137
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #143
get the red out Aug 2012 #152
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #159
Kalidurga Aug 2012 #157
lib2DaBone Aug 2012 #158
Mojorabbit Aug 2012 #164
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #182
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #184
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #185
hack89 Aug 2012 #186
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #187
hack89 Aug 2012 #188
davidpdx Aug 2012 #166
sufrommich Aug 2012 #170
Doctor_J Aug 2012 #175
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #180

Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:15 PM

1. Bald white male with multiple guns!?

Who possibly could have guessed....

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:21 PM

10. You mean this guy?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:43 PM

29. That is a rifle...

The story said two HANDGUNS.
Darth isn't wearing a sleeveless T-shirt either.
I think he's off the hook on this one.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:04 PM

50. Nah! He never shot a man he didn't like n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:02 PM

97. Wayne LaPierre (on the left) began as a legislative aide to Democratic Virginia Delegate Vic Thomas

 

and was a Democratic legislative aide when he joined the NRA in 1977.

In 1996 when some Democrats in positions of power in Washington, DC pushed for anti-gun legislation, LaPierre's influence and the influence of the NRA under his leadership increased signifigantly. Many Democrats in Congress lost their seats because they acted contrary to the public's wishes and acted in an undemocratic manner. The anti-gun legislative efforts helped elect a signfigant number of Republicans, including VP Cheney who obtained five draft deferments and never held a M-14 or M-16 in Viet Nam.

Should anyone think that resuming a push for anti-gun legislation would produce a different result?

If so, just look at the smirk on Cheney's face and remember all those Republicans who were elected.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #97)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:10 PM

173. Yeah, it's probably a perfect time to join the pro-gun culture

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #173)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:23 PM

176. Bill Clinton seems to have some expertise.

 

With respect to the 1994 election, in his recently-released book "My Life," he said:

"Just before the House vote (on the crime bill), Speaker Tom Foley and majority leader Dick Gephardt had made a last-ditch appeal to me to remove the assault weapons ban from the bill. They argued that many Democrats who represented closely divided districts had already...defied the NRA once on the Brady bill vote. They said that if we made them walk the plank again on the assault weapons ban, the overall bill might not pass, and that if it did, many Democrats who voted for it would not survive the election in November. Jack Brooks, the House Judiciary Committee chairman from Texas, told me the same thing...Jack was convinced that if we didn't drop the ban, the NRA would beat a lot of Democrats by terrifying gun owners....Foley, Gephardt, and Brooks were right and I was wrong. The price...would be heavy casualties among its defenders." (Pages 611-612)

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)

I'm not sure whether "it's probably a perfect time to join the pro-gun culture," but it is time for those who are opposed to the private ownership of firearms for self-defense or other lawful purposes to act in a way consistent with Democratic values, learn from experience, and listen to the voices of Democrats and independents. This includes listening with respect to gun-owning Democrats and gun-owning independents.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #176)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:24 AM

181. Obama has pandered to the NRA

more than any other Dem in history, and the result is that he appears weak and appeasing - trying to make friends with those who hate his guts. For every Hate Radio addict that might suddenly have an epiphany and vote for him, he will lose 5 votes from the people who elected him in 2008. Those people expected him to take on the NRA, not befreind them. Of course they also expected him to support unions, reduce military spending, support public education, reject Republican economic policies, hold firm on social security and Medicare, and actually fight back when the fascists attack him. They've been disappointed on all fronts, and will of course be blamed for not supporting him enough.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #181)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:38 PM

183. Although mentioning "the NRA" is a dog-whistle to some, it has no effect on me because

 

(1) I have no serious interest in the NRA and do not perceive whatever it is that you think that they've done that is wrong, and
(2) the association falacy does not work with me.

From Wikipedia:
An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

In contrast to FDR, JFK, and other Democratic Presidents who were life members of the NRA when it existed exclusively or primarily as a gun-safety organization (prior to the politicalization of the organization with the 1994 anti-gun law), I don't even know whether Obama has ever been a member of the NRA.

The NRA has become politicalized thanks to the 1994 Act. But I don't see how that affects me or (if the NRA has engaged in some wrong undescribed by you) how I can change that. Since 1994, the NRA has become an active supporter of many Republican candidates. But it also remains an active supporter of some Democratic candidates. The mere fact that the NRA has supported some Republican candidates is not inherently unusual nor does it show that everything that the NRA does is wrong. If you believe that NRA has done something wrong, why not describe that wrong instead of saying "Obama has pandered to the NRA."

As Wikipedia explains,
McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

You say that "Obama has pandered to the NRA more than any other Dem in history." I see no evidence of that. In fact, I don't even know or suspect Obama of being a NRA sympathizer.

If you have evidence to support your statement "Obama has pandered to the NRA more than any other Dem in history," where is it?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:05 PM

98. The guy on the right looks like he is already fantasizing about being alone with that gun.

 

Probably why they cropped the picture where they did.
I really do not understand why people can be so enamored with killing machines. The more macho looking the better.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:43 PM

131. Well, those are definitely domestic terrorists...

n/t

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:51 PM

71. Thanks for the link. nt

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:15 PM

3. Another Moment of Silence - Guns

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:18 PM

4. Sikhs believe in the brotherhood of man, and equality of all. The shooter must have seen his turban,

and thought they were Muslims. Thank the Republicans and their illiterate followers in the Christian right.

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Response to alfredo (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:22 PM

57. That was my 1st thought.

Maybe not, but the right wing media distortion of any religion except Christian, and the description of the shooters, indicates a hate crime to me. Freeper types see anyone with dark skin and a turban as a "muzzie" coming to impose Shariah law.

Sometimes the more information some people absorb, the dumber they get.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #57)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:31 PM

59. +1 eom

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #57)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:53 PM

114. Ignorance and a gun is a bad mix.

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Response to alfredo (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:22 PM

125. how about sisterhood of women?

just curious

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Response to Skittles (Reply #125)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:48 PM

155. Equality of women in Sikhism

http://realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248311765&ucat=7

Q: What is the role and status of women in Sikh society?

A: In Sikhism men and women are equal.

In fourteenth century, before the time Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Indian women were severely degraded and oppressed by their society. Given no education or freedom to make decisions, their presence in religious, political, social, cultural, and economic affairs was virtually non-existent. Woman was referred to as the root of all evil, snare, and temptress. Her function was only to perpetuate the race, do household work, and serve the male members of society. Female infanticide was common, and the practice of sati was encouraged, sometimes even forced. In Sati system, if the husband of any women dies then the women was to cremate alive with his husband’s body. Guru Amar Das Ji, the third Guru of Sikhs, raised his voice and denounced the Sati system. He made every possible attempt to eliminate the Sati system and achieve equality for women.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji condemned this man-made notion of the inferiority of women, and protested against their long subjugation. The Ultimate Truth was revealed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji through a mystic experience, in direct communion with God. Guru Nanak Dev Ji conveys this Truth through his scripture as follows:

"Man is born from a woman; within woman, man is conceived; to a woman he is engaged and married. Man is friends with woman; through woman, the future generations exist. When his woman passes away, he seeks another woman; to a woman a man is bound. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. From a woman, woman is born; without woman there would be no one at all" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 473).

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Response to Skittles (Reply #125)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:28 AM

171. In their case brotherhood includes both genders.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:18 PM

5. My thoughts and prayers

go out to the Sikh community.

The Sikh religion is one of the most tolerant I know.

Hope they get the shooter and quickly.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:18 PM

6. The perpetrator probably mistook it for a mosque

 

Or something equally dumb.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:25 PM

14. Regardless of the shooter possibly making any associative mistakes

This had to be premeditated, making it fall under several categories, including Attempted First Degree Murder, Terrorism, Hate Crime, and more.
I hope they get this guy soon.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:33 PM

20. Or something equally dumb.

I agree, a Sikh temple is not quite as dumb as a mosque.




I KNOW what you meant! English is hard though.....

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:19 PM

7. $100 that this guy is a wingnut bigot who mistook Sikhs for Muslims.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:21 PM

9. Yep. (nt)

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:32 PM

18. That's probably a given. Although it's also possible he just thought anyone non-Christian & foreign

needed to be eliminated.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:37 PM

24. I remember after 9/11 hearing that a lot of Sikhs were harassed...

...because people thought turbans = Evil Muslin Terrist.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:08 PM

52. A Sikh man was murdered right after 9/11.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:14 PM

54. In Texas an idiot shot a gas station owner right after 9/11

and then hung around for the police and was all grins thinking he was going to get a bounty or a medal.

When he was told the guy he shot was from India, he said, "What difference does it make?"

These racist bastards consider anything non-white as sub-human.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #54)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:09 PM

101. I believe another was killed in Phoenix, too.

It was within two or three days of 9/11.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #54)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:20 PM

140. i think that guy was executed a couple of years ago or even more recently nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #140)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:20 PM

151. i think one of the guys he shot but survived said he didn't think he should be executed

i think he was just against the death penalty. and the guy wanted forgiveness.

but this is just ignorance in this country. when wingnuts complain about muliculturalism they create ignorance. why are wingnuts so against learning , especially about things that are different or might show things are not as they thought before.

why are they so scared. and these are the people who tend to go out arming themselves .

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:42 PM

110. crap like that happened in my city...

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:35 PM

22. Easy bet.

Also a member of a local 'militia' gang.

Hard bet: First MSM talking head to say "terrorism".

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Response to sarge43 (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:37 PM

23. My bet on that one would be "first talking head to appear, period." (nt)

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:49 PM

34. Not going to bet against that

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:48 PM

66. And hates women and children apparently.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:52 PM

73. +1

I came here just to say that only to see about a bazillion people beat me to it.

On a somber note, it this really sucks. Guy must be an idiot on multiple levels.

My heart goes out to the victims of that imbecile.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:20 PM

8. That's an interesting description of the perp

now who could possibly fit a mold like that? Hmmmm. Let me think........

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:28 PM

16. It's pretty mcuh a stereotype, innit?

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:30 PM

17. Another 'if the shoe fits' situation, I suspect.

It'll be interesting to see his background once he's nabbed.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:50 PM

113. Stereotyping is a basic cognitive process, helps us function in unfamiliar contexts, like a

hypothesis, they're useful, but become dysfunctional when they cease to be hypotheses and become conclusions instead, even after reliable and valid information that may or may not support the stereotype is perceived.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:22 PM

11. That's horrific. I hope they find the perp. No doubt he has a trial of rants online they can trace.

Reminds me of the scary person that posted the gun pointed at the camera, while ranting in a rage against the "being liberal" page. Same personality. Disgruntled white men, who are angry at how their own lives turned out, and need to blame other people. The Fox "news" machine has done what the set out to do... dehumanize people who are different, so that guys like that have someone to blame for their failures and for the fleecing of the middle class... instead of the real bad guys.

I hope everyone recovers fully from this shooting. I remember when the bullshit rhetoric after 9/11 and during Palin's campaign, led to many attacks on Sikhs, because people believed they were Muslim.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:05 PM

51. "Disgruntled white men" = racist

 

You are overlooking the criminality and deaths caused persons of other races.

Just as one example, last week not far from the latest shooting,
George Hites, 58, of Milwaukee was shot multiple times by Thaiv Xiong, 23, of Milwaukee about 6 p.m. Thursday at the northwest side manufacturing plant at 7878 N. 86th St.
...
"We have the classic disgruntled employee-immediate supervisor circumstance where sadly, for reasons that are best known to the deceased employee, he developed a grudge against his boss and acted out in a violent way that resulted in that man's death," (Milwaukee Police Chief) Flynn said.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/counselors-on-hand-after-workplace-shooting-0d6bsss-164873936.html

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:34 PM

61. Um Okay. You're right.. there are NO angry white men who blame people of other races. n/t

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #61)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:21 PM

84. Wrong. In fact, I think that "angry white men who blame people of other races" can be KKK members

 

or other people with racists tendencies.

You certainly don't want to be like those in the KKK and use a broad brush to blame "angry white men." If you otherwise do, there is no excuse for your actions.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:35 PM

62. Us poor maligned white guys.

 

It's racism I tell ya.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:16 PM

104. Well, it's not all bad. Nor are white guys always maligned. Some religious worshippers belief that

 

there is a God which looks like us. A white male bipod. Except for the invisible part.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:09 PM

78. FAIL. Going postal on your ex-supervisor != emptying a gun into a place of worship.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #78)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:18 PM

83. Um, FAIL yourself. "Disgruntled white men" != either "Going postal on your ex-supervisor" or

 

"emptying a gun into a place of worship".

"Disgruntled white men" means "Disgruntled white men".

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #78)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:59 PM

116. thank you. nicely put. n/t

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:23 PM

12. Oh boy. I am appalled at this.

I live in Milwaukee and I hate to see something like this in our community. There are a number of Sikhs in this area and they are a tolerant and peaceful bunch. The people suggesting that they were mistaken for Muslims and targeted by a bigot may well prove true. We have our share of that sort here too, unfortunately.

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:40 PM

28. There is a Sikh who lives in my apartment building.

Really nice guy, studying to become a psychiatrist.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:25 PM

13. My god.

What do you want to bet: THIS is what happens when you get ignorant assholes loaded to the teeth with weaponry they should be too stupid and/or hateful to have.

Sending positive healing vibes to the victims and their families.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:27 PM

15. Police scanner reporting fires breaking out in the temple

Apparently there are a few small fires breaking out inside the temple building due to the shooting.

Meanwhile, on the scanner, they are already widening the search area quickly and sending police to multiple locations to check out people of interest.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:39 PM

27. Abandoned food burning on the stove, according to the scanner.

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Response to Adsos Letter (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:51 PM

35. Thanks EOM

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:32 PM

19. du rec. nt

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:33 PM

21. Say a prayer.

Two weeks ago today, my wife and I had lunch at the home of a Sikh friend and her children. I asked her if the Sikh god was the god of Islam. She said it was not. I told her that I asked because the god of Abraham (the god of the Jews) is the Christian god and is the Muslim god. She said she knew that. I told her I am Christian, and that I personally believe my god hears all prayers. She said she believes her god hears all prayers. But she added that she does not believe that Muslims in general believe that their god hears the prayers of non-Muslims. I told her that I was under that impression, too.

I left her home thinking that she and I do worship the same god, but that we each ernestly believe in different stories of god.

Today the Sikhs are in my prayers.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:37 PM

25. What a conversation!

It appears though that nobody's god heard anybody's prayers....so.... maybe neither of those gods are even there! They both are pretty unreliable.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:51 PM

36. An unfathomable event, indeed.

Have a good day and a good life, AlbertCat.

Days like today are indeed hard on people of faith, just as they are hard on people without faith.

That said, I do not presume to know what everybody's prayers are.

And I certainly do not elevate my prayers to the level of God's wisdom.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:57 PM

42. And I certainly do not elevate my prayers to the level of God's wisdom.

That's a pretty low bar!

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:00 PM

46. Peace.

Peace.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:37 PM

90. They are indeed the same G-d

it has been a component of Rightwing Islamiphobic disinformation to claim that Allah means some other G-d when in fact it does not, I wish I could be surprised at seeing it repeated here on DU

Islam believes its follows are descendents of Ishmael another of Abraham's sons

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #90)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:05 PM

99. "the same G-d"? A male bipod who looks just like us? Except for being invisible?

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #99)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:01 PM

117. actually that depiction G-d is from Christianity

far more than Islam or Judaism who believe G-d is without form

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #117)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:12 PM

122. Interesting.

 

That's another thing which I did not know.

Of course, logically, if the Christian God has a form and the Islam/Judasim G-d does not, then they cannot be the same God or G-d.

It is somewhat more logical to believe in a God or G-d which does not have any form. But if I wanted to believe in a God or G-d, I think that I would prefer to have him look like me.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #122)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:38 PM

128. I think it is the Jesus thing

my understanding of Christian beliefs is that Jesus was G-d taken physical form as G-ds son but I could be wrong too

eta it's the Messiah thing Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah where as Muslims and Jews believe the Messiah has not yet come same G-d though

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #128)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:00 PM

134. And (I'm not making this up) Mormons apparently believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus.

 

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:33 PM

108. The joy is that we can regularly have these conversations in this country

They go on in college dorms all across the country and on buses going to high school activities like speech, sports, etc. That is America. My Jewish debate partner and I had wonderful converstations as well as I grew up. My atheist roommate from Hong Kong was a wonderful person to share a room with and spend time enjoying our mutual interests and understanding each others beliefs. My Muslim friend from one of my jobs was one of the kindest and most caring persons I have ever met (as could be said about my Mormon boss at another job).

God will damn us if we can't keep that joy alive in my opinion. I know what my church teaches about salvation, but I also know what it teaches about how you treat your fellow man and woman.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:05 AM

161. Maybe Shiva, the Hindu God of Destruction, was listening? (Shiva is the God

 

Robert Oppenheimer alluded to upon the successful A-bomb test at Los Alamos.)

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:53 PM

38. As-Samia (All Hearing)

For Muslims, one of the 99 names of God is All Hearing. Meaning He hears all, including prayers from all people.

Any 8 year old Muslim would know this. There can be only one Creator of the Universe, and that is the God Muslims worship.

FYI

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Response to harun (Reply #38)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM

39. Thank you.

Obviously my Sikh friend did not know that.

Obviously I did not know that.

Neither one of us is 8 years old.

But neither one of us is Muslim.

I thank you.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #39)


Response to AlbertCat (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:18 PM

55. Peace.

Wiktionary seems to agree with Harun that for Muslims one of the 99 names of God is All Hearing.

You do point out that people who believe in God (and especially people who believe in one god) have more in common with one another than they do with non-believers. As I have admitted, I am substantially ignorant of Islam. But I've got no need to make fun of Harun.

I do unconditionally wish you peace.

Do you wish peace for me, for my Sikh friend, and for Harun?

For any one or two of us?

Or are all three of us just objects of ridicule to you?

How about the decedents and their loved ones?

Want to take another jab or two at their particular faith?

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:12 PM

103. No thank you

It is very nice to hear when people enjoy engaging others about things they don't know instead of hating them.

And about the eight year old comment, unfortunately this is basic teachings that somehow people forget when they are older. So just because the religion teaches it doesn't stop people from being human.

So there are plenty of bad examples out there, I won't deny that. Glad you have a nice friend to talk to and share with.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:26 PM

85. I believe God hears all prayers

But the answers are not always what we want/expect. My prayers are with those killed today and their families.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:27 PM

86. well you and your Sikh 'friend' are wrong very wrong

Al-Baqarah 2:62.19

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Islam believes that they are the descendents of Abraham's son Ishmael, the 4 major prophets of Islam are Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #86)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:46 PM

91. Well, okay.

I am not sure why the word friend is in quotation marks.

Is it not okay to grieve the victims of the shooting (or, more generally, ever to grieve)?

Are Sikhs just out in terms of any possibility of favor with God because they:

- do not believe in the Qur'an

- do not follow the Jewish (scriptures)

- are not Christians or Sabians

It seems to me that Sikhs believe in God, although I don't know where they are on that whole Last Day thing. They are quite committed to working righteousness, if working righeousness generally equates to helping people in need of help. So I don't know how those plusses and question marks work together vis a vis the Sikhs.

I just hate being so very wrong and so very clueless.

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #91)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:54 PM

95. Sikhs are not mentioned in the Quran because Sikhs emerged in the 15th century

around 7 or 8 centuries after the Quran was written

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Response to Don C. Nuttin (Reply #91)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:08 PM

120. Sikhs do not worship the Abrahamic god.

They do not revere Jesus or Muhammad or any of your prophets and don't believe in a judgement day. They believe in reincarnation and are probably closer to Hinduism in overall beliefs.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:39 PM

26. it's not the guns

It's the atmosphere of hate and bigotry that has been allowed to not only peep out, but to proudly stand full monty.

It's the hate radio. It's the media lies. It's the new and faux Christians.

It's all hate, all the time.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:46 PM

32. I tend to agree with you

 

this person probably saw people wearing turbans, assumed they were Muslims, and decided to get even for, who the fuck knows.
My prayers to the Sikh community and to those injured and to the families of the injured.

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Response to twizzler (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:16 PM

138. ......because those ragheads did 9-11......



Of course, that Sikhism has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam never occurs to the RW freaks.........

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #138)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:48 PM

149. Totally agree

 

All this fucking bigot saw was turbans and said, oh look, muslims, I'm going to get revenge for 9/11.
At least the cop that was shot was able to return fire and kill him, limiting the carnage.
A true hero.
People rag on the police all the time, but most have no idea what we go through every day we pin the badge on.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM

41. How many people could that guy take down at once with a knife or bat before being tackled?

Guns are weapons of FAST destruction, AND they contribute to a culture of violence.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:22 PM

56. + One billion.

Anyone who says "it's not the guns" has a real problem.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:15 PM

82. Guns are people, my friend!

An' ya gotta feel sorry for them being forced to do something they weren't meant to do....... wait, that don't sound right.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:47 PM

92. I think a can of gasoline and some matches would do

While I agree that the worship of guns in the US contributes to these crimes a mass killer can find other equally dramatic ways of taking people out

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Response to DBoon (Reply #92)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:38 PM

146. I'd rather take my chances with the can of gas

I have a pretty decent chance of getting out of a burning building. A few hundred rounds intentionally aimed at me? Not so much.

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Response to DBoon (Reply #92)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:35 AM

162. Yes, but it's the ease and convenience of weapons that are the issue.

A morning service, in a very large temple, and one guy with a gas can and match. Not going to do much.

Guns are perfect for cowards. The can be far away from their target, and all they have to do is wiggle a finger to destroy hundreds of lives in a dozen shots. All the plots that people come up with as a way to say 'it didn't have to be a gun,' all require more work, more foresight, than just grabbing the guns and putting on gear.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:45 PM

30. There are conflicting reports that there are 2 gunmen holding hostages

Who knows if this will turn out to be correct, but some are retweeting local media saying that they're receiving SMS from inside the temple saying there are 2 gunmen.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:46 PM

31. Wouldn't be the first time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Balbir_Singh_Sodhi

On September 15, 2001, Frank Roque shot Sodhi five times, killing him instantly. Roque, who apparently wanted revenge for September 11, mistook him for an Arab because of the clothes he wore, his turban, and his beard. Within 25 minutes of his death, the Phoenix police reported four further attacks on people who either were Middle Easterners or who dressed with clothes thought to be worn by Middle Easterners.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:48 PM

33. "Reports indicate 12 Children being held Hostage by Militia Men in Sikh Temple"

 

Per @sikhactivist on Twitter.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:52 PM

37. Meanwhile the headline on Drudge?

Serena Williams dancing at the Olympics.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:56 PM

40. and yet the gun industry and gun culture rolls on and on



Michael Moore was right after the shootings in Colorado nothing will change and
we have another and another mass shooting and nobody will do dick about it.

Bottom line: IT IS THE GUNS.

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Response to Botany (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:58 PM

43. Oh but guns are sooo SEXY (barf) Every video, movie, tv show, that features guns glamorizes them.

I hate it. They serve one purpose: to kill.

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Response to Botany (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:02 PM

47. Bottom line is that it is RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE.

Guns don't cause hate crimes. Hate causes hate crimes.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:45 PM

64. It's easier to attack the 2nd amendment

and blame the guns, than attack the 1st amendment and blame their god.

I personally would think that the mindset needs to be dealt with much more urgently than the weapons, but what do I know...

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:49 PM

93. a violent gun-worshipping society makes hate much more deadly

nt

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:27 PM

106. It's a cruel irony that a fundamental tenet of Sikhism is respect for all religions ....

... and a commitment to DEFEND the rights of all people to worship according to their own faith. Sikhism has many VERY admirable basic principles, including equality and freedom of ALL people. They were "casteless" when India was deeply caste-based and believed in full gender equality as far back as the 15th century!

It would be difficult to find daylight between Sikh beliefs and the UN Declaration of Human Rights ... and Sikhs got it right more than FIVE HUNDRED YEARS EARLIER.

The very notion of directing such hatred toward a community so devoted to defending EVERYONE'S rights is an abomination on top of an abomination.


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Response to bluedigger (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:02 PM

118. Sorry, but there are intolerant people EVERYWHERE, but the US is the place where they use guns

In America, where it's every angry asshole in the Country can get numerous weapons, it becomes a gun issue.

There are intolerant people in Japan, and in the UK, but their sane gun laws and lack of gun-glorified culture, means that shit like this doesn't happen all the time, or that mentally ill people are not allowed to amass large cache of weapons.

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Response to Botany (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:46 PM

65. Cue the NRA to blame the person, his mother, and bad aiming

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #65)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:12 PM

174. And the fact that the Sikh's didn't arm themselves properly

for services.

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Response to Botany (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:11 PM

80. That photo makes me sick

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Response to Jessy169 (Reply #80)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:27 PM

87. Why? Did they have anything to do with this crime? n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #87)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:09 PM

121. yes

The glorification of guns, gun porn and gun culture do have something to do with gun crimes.

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Response to Care Acutely (Reply #121)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:36 PM

127. +1

I can't watch this show. They don't build weapons, they build idols to worship.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #87)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:18 PM

139. In an indirect way, I believe yes, they did

Before Columbine in 1999, mass shootings in America were rare events. After 1999, there have been at least one or two mass shootings per year every year (except one i believe), and three mass shootings a few times and prior to this year, four mass shootings in one year. This year, we already have four mass shootings, and we still have almost have a year left to go. The rise in mass shootings, almost all of which were perpetrated with semi-automatic weapons, are most certainly directly related to the massive saturation of our society WITH semi-automatic weapons -- weapons that were never meant for hunting, just for killing people. The folks in that photograph are perfect poster-childs for the NRA lunacy that allows any wreck of a human being to walk into the gun store and walk out armed to the teeth. The smirk on the gal's face is an insult to the many people who have died or had their lives ruined as result of the proliferation of semi-automatic weapons into our society.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:58 PM

44. Obviously, we don't know the motivation for this shooting but...

...one thing's for sure from my recent experience. Wingnuts are angry. REALLY angry. I myself have been the target of outrageous outbursts of irrational hatred from close family members over partisan politics. We've seen more and more examples of right-wingers saying nutty things and acting crazy.

They are desperate. The Republican party is self-imploding. With every day it is becoming more clear that Obama will be re-elected and the GOP is on its way out - and it's their own damn fault for bowing down to the extremist elements in their party and nominating a terrible candidate for president.

I wouldn't be surprised if this shooting is a hate crime inspired by the wild accusations of Bachmann and other Rethugs. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a hate-inspired wingnut lashing out due to the irrational hatred that is whipped up by the lying liars such as Beck and Limbaugh.

Of course, I'm just speculating about this shooting but we should all beware. Today's Republicans are basically fascists. If they can't have their way they will act out and I wouldn't put violence past them.

After I vote on election day I'm going on lockdown because I just can't hope for the best from people who seem so delusional and full of irrational hatred.

I hope I'm wrong about this shooting, I really do, but it's hard to imagine it not being a hate crime inspired by wingnut rhetoric when the right's crazy levels are off the charts these days. If that turns out to be true then they damn well better be held accountable.

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Response to RedStateLiberal (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:58 PM

133. I'm noticing the same thing. The chickens are coming home to roost.

People are angry and a lot of people are angry about the right things but for all the wrong reasons, and the targets of their anger are all wrong. It's not "liberals" that tanked the economy. It turns out that global warming isn't just a liberal myth made up to make Al Gore rich. It turns out that "Obamacare" is not socialist enough rather than being way too socialist. It turns out that "buy American" was a good idea that the Republicans destroyed. It turns out that Sikhs aren't Muslim and anyway the Muslims didn't do this to us we did it to ourselves.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 01:58 PM

45. he shot a cop too. this is on cnn live right now

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Response to IcyPeas (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:03 PM

49. Officer shot, will survive ...

SikhActivistNetwork ‏@sikhactivist
Update: Police Officer shot, will survive. One suspect down at Sikh temple shooting. #TempleShooting.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:13 PM

53. Sure are alot of PEOPLE killing lately..

who just happen to be using a WEAPON designed SOLEY and SPECIFICALLY to KILL that has no other purpose beyond KILLING..

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Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:24 PM

144. yep, we're on track for a record year of mass shootings

Before this year, four mass-shootings in one year was the record. We're at four mass shootings this year already, with five months left to go. Record idiocy in the Republican Party. Record heat from global warming. Record mass shootings. Not a good year. If Romney somehow "wins", this could go down as one of the worst years ever.

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Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #53)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:38 AM

163. Well.. in the past four years, an astronomical number of guns have been sold in America.

Because the NRA and the assholes on right wing radio and tv, have scared the unstable and ignorant people that 1) the economy is going to collapse. 2) the right wingers will be sent to fema camps 3) there will be martial law and the democrats will come for the guns 4) there are scary people with hoodies out there to steal their tv.

More guns on the street = more crime. Period. Whatever dipshit wrote "an armed society is a polite society" is full of shit. it's quite the opposite, actually.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #163)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:27 AM

167. In spite of the fear-mongering, murders and other violent crimes have decreased for the past 4 years

 

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:22 PM

58. K&R, sadly.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:32 PM

60. If only

All the folks from the temple were packing too................

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

88. Well, their (ceremonial) daggers are pretty useless against semi-automatic handguns.

Every Sikh male must carry one, along with a comb and other items traditionally required by their faith.

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Response to TahitiNut (Reply #88)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:58 AM

172. Even if he hadn't had a gun,

IIRC they aren't allowed to use them as a weapon, and it would be considered a terrible thing to do so.

My sleep deprived brain may be remembering wrong.

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:43 PM

130. =More dead bodies

I know your post was sarcastic but I too have become intolerant of that crazy logic. As with the Aurora Massacre I've heard the usual people using that logic. It would just start a firestorm of wildly fired bullets causing greater loss of life.

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Response to gasser85 (Reply #130)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:55 PM

132. Yup.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:40 PM

63. Another Christian Terrorist!

Carrying out a violent attack against a peaceful people.

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Response to citizen blues (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:51 PM

69. Nothing Christian about slaughter of the unarmed. Just nutfuckerian.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:49 PM

67. CNN says

 

7 people dead.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:49 PM

68. Police: Officer at Sikh temple shooting "put down" 1 shooter; no word on shooter's condition

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:51 PM

70. Just more guns used for their intended purpose. nt

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:51 PM

72. New York Times reports seven dead.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:53 PM

74. 6 victims dead, plus 1 gunman dead

Hostage situation ongoing

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:08 PM

77. Press release from the Indian embassy:

http://www.indianembassy.org/prdetail2006/press-release

"Washington, DC

"We have seen reports on the tragic incident earlier today of firing at a group of worshippers in a Gurudwara in the Milwaukee suburb of Oak Creek, Wisconsin. The Embassy is seized of the situation and has been in touch with the National Security Council in Washington, D.C. Our Consulate General in Chicago too has been in close touch with the local authorities to monitor the situation. An official has been deputed to visit the site to ascertain the situation on-the-spot."

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:10 PM

79. 4 hours in and still nothing on Drudge.

Still Serena Williams dancing.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:13 PM

81. Skinhead?

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:37 PM

89. I can hardly handle this--very close to where I live & I know some who worship here! :-(

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Response to hue (Reply #89)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:51 PM

94. hundreds of miles away

and I am angry and sad...

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #94)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:20 PM

105. My new next door neighbor came over to see if our Dish was working.

His family is in Wisconsin and he had lost his television signal due to a thunderstorm. He does not have Internet access yet and wanted to keep abreast of what is happening. Thankfully his mother and sister both finally called and had not left yet left home when this occurred.

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Response to revolution breeze (Reply #105)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:14 PM

150. (((RB))) nt

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Response to revolution breeze (Reply #105)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:30 PM

177. Hopefully you didn't let him tune to Fox Lies

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #177)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:05 AM

189. My satellite was out too

But he was able to get on our computer and find news as well as chat with a friend. And it gave us a chance to get to know him better. Great addition to our diverse neighborhood.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:56 PM

96. Even money he's a teabagging Michelle Bachmann groupie.

"Those Muslims are infiltrating our government!"

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Response to Archae (Reply #96)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:07 PM

100. More likely a member or wannbe of the Aryan Nation EOM

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Response to Archae (Reply #96)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:55 PM

115. Whatever he was, he's dead now and no longer a threat.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:11 PM

102. Prayers upon prayers to everyone there

I also bet the NRA is seeing more $$$$ signs.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #102)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:33 PM

107. Yep. Mass murder has become that gun industry lobby's best money making scheme.

Started with their favorite gun rights poster boy, Timothy McVeigh.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #107)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:46 PM

111. McVeigh didn't use a gun.

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Response to Archae (Reply #111)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:32 PM

178. And there hasn't been another McVeigh in 17 years

while gun massacres are getting to be a weekly news item.

Moron.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #178)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:34 PM

179. Are you calling me a moron?

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:37 PM

109. The Sikhs amongst my acquaintences are absolutely hands down the most peaceful people I know.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 04:46 PM

112. Seven dead. So, how many more need to die before we address gun control?

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #112)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:19 PM

124. How many more need to die before you address GOP control?

The socialist hordes up here in Canuckistan are getting restless.

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #124)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:22 PM

142. You and us both

I'm beginning to think we should wall off the US like "Escape from New York." The whole country can be just one big penal colony for wing-nuts and the rest of the world can live in peace for a change.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #112)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:39 PM

129. Before we address racism? Before we address religious hatred?

I agree we need basic controls on firearms, but they're far from being the root of the problem.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #129)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:46 PM

147. Those too

But they're not mutually exclusive. When the US has a culture that does not kill 30,000 people a year with guns, I will be the first to champion gun rights. Until then, we can no more be trusted with them than an infant can be trusted with a hand grenade. Whatever the root causes of our numerous problems may be, we clearly are NOT ready for prime time when it comes to guns. To continuously pour deadly weapons into a society that is the sociological equivalent of a retarded child is suicidal.

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Response to primavera (Reply #147)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:26 PM

153. Yes, but that's what I was saying

There's been a huge rush lately to condemn the weapon while glossing over the actual problems.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #129)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:42 PM

154. Gun control would be a hell of a lot easier than curing ignorance, extremism, and bigotry.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #154)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:54 PM

156. Indeed.

Last edited Sun Aug 5, 2012, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Even if we succeeded in banning guns tomorrow, this time next year we'd be wondering what to do about all these bombings. The actual problems need to be addressed first.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:08 PM

119. Again. 7 humans dead by the existence of the GOP.

 

Until the GOP is banned, we will not make inroads on banning weapons. Priorities.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #119)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:27 PM

145. Would you stop making the same stupid-ass post

across this board? No progressive has ever argued in favor of banning a political party -- that's just dumb. You're either a troll or you're just not too damned bright.

edited for punctuation

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Response to Codeine (Reply #145)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 11:47 PM

160. Methinks he's both,

a troll AND not too bright. Way too obvious from the beginning, his handlers must have cut back on the training budget.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #145)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:17 AM

165. troll for sure, i thought he had been banned

but i guess not.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #119)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:29 AM

168. Crime rates have been falling for almost 20 years. The last four years are no different.

 

In spite of the misleading vividness of spectacular crimes that are hyped by the media.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011/data-tables/table-3

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:18 PM

123. Nah, we don't need anymore gun control ... WTF

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:32 PM

126. Kick! n/t

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:04 PM

135. " A sikh must have the courage to defend the rights of all who are wrongfully

oppressed or persecuted irrespective of religion, color caste or creed." I never bothered to read anything about what the sikh's believe. I'm impressed by that. I did know they weren't muslim but I wonder if the shooter thought they were?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism

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Response to brewens (Reply #135)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:21 PM

141. I pretty much guarantee you he did. I wonder what his FR handle was?

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:12 PM

136. A moment of silence, please, for the victims of this senseless act of gun violence

... and for the victims of the one before, and the one before that, and the one before that...

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:12 PM

137. FBI and ATF at a home in Cudahy, neighborhood being evacuated.

Per live tv

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 06:22 PM

143. Stoopit journalist on the live feed asked what "domestic terrorism" was.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #143)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 07:21 PM

152. OMG

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Response to get the red out (Reply #152)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:51 PM

159. She talked like a fresh young news babe.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:13 PM

157. This is so sad...

More good people dead, because someone knows not what they hate. We will probably never get the full story as if we ever do. But, what we do know is that there are too many people carrying around hate and it is too often becoming deadly.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:24 PM

158. Well, I can see that everyone will have to give up their freedom to remain safe....

 

Bring on the TSA Roadblocks... everyone will have to be stripped-searched at the supermarket on a daily basis to remain safe.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #158)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:07 AM

164. I think people would do it too which scares me more than anything.

I am getting up there but I think it will be a different world for the younger people. They can be talked so easily into giving up their freedoms for an illusion of safety.
I am reading this guy was a military vet. I hope that he was not one of those people sent for multiple tours and was damaged by it.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #158)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:28 AM

182. By "give up their right to be safe",

I suppose you mean support a little gun control. Strange, people in the civilized parts of the world are far safer than we are, and don't have strip-searches at the supoermarket. I wonder if there is some other difference...wait! I know! They don't have 200 million guns in circulation!

Occum's Razor

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #182)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:57 PM

184. So how do you propose to get rid of those 200 million guns?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #184)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:27 PM

185. how do you propose to stop the shooting rampages?

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #185)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:33 PM

186. How about single payer health care with mental health coverage? nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #186)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:36 PM

187. about as likely as the gun ban the NRA is screaming about

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #187)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:39 PM

188. If you could devote your time and effort to health care or gun control which would you pick?

I would pick health care - it would save many more lives.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 07:21 AM

166. It's hard to not come to the conclusion that this was a deranged act of hate

based on religion. I hope the FBI figures out what happened and makes the evidence public. The guy maybe dead, but people have a right to know what happened and why.

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Response to Whoa_Nelly (Original post)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:34 AM

170. An interesting freeper post...

Claims to be a post on ATF board from shooter:

A letter from Wade M. Page is posted on the ATF website...

“From: Badman400
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:19 PM
To: Terrell, Barbara A.
Subject: No registering of long guns
Wake Up!!!!
No more restrictions on law abiding gun owners! These restrictions do nothing about the criminals they are meant to
affect. Why punish and render defenseless the very people that deserve to be protected while HELPING the offenders
with such laws? The only other use for such laws is for government to gain control over the people. This is America, and I
AM THE GOVERNMENT, not you! Remember who you work for, and your oath!
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make
things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they
serve to encourage rather than to prevent homicides, for an
unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an
armed man.”
-Thomas Jefferson
Sincerely,
Wade M. Page
Stop tying the hands of the good guys!”
http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/demand-letters/B%20Responses.pdf

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2915144/posts#comment

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #170)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:14 PM

175. Something nearly identical has been or will be posted in the gungeon

most of them are freepers

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #175)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:51 PM

180. Of *course* they are, because no Real Progressives (TM) disagree with you!

Seriously, are you Fred Colon?

Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me.

Terry Pratchett, Jingo




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