Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:56 AM
dipsydoodle (32,679 posts)
'Sex offender' extradition haltedLast edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:59 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Source: BBC News
The High Court in London has blocked a US government attempt to extradite a man accused of child sex. Shawn Sullivan, 43, won his appeal against extradition after US authorities refused to pledge he would not be placed on a controversial sex offenders treatment programme. Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18625225 From last September : U.S. most wanted paedophile Shawn Sullivan in London. A CONVICTED paedophile who is one of America’s most wanted criminals is living secretly in London. The Sun tracked down vile Shawn Sullivan and watched as he went for an hour-long bike ride. American Sullivan, 42, has been wanted in the US since 1994 for allegedly molesting two 11-year-old girls and unlawful sex with a girl of 14. Authorities in Minnesota want him extradited to face charges. If found guilty, he could face 25 years in jail on each count. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3835174/US-most-wanted-paedophile-Shawn-Sullivan-in-London.html
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26 replies, 3262 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| dipsydoodle | Jun 2012 | OP | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #1 | |
| dipsydoodle | Jun 2012 | #2 | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #3 | |
| dipsydoodle | Jun 2012 | #4 | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #5 | |
| reorg | Jun 2012 | #9 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #6 | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #7 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #10 | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #12 | |
| cstanleytech | Jun 2012 | #19 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #21 | |
| clang1 | Jun 2012 | #25 | |
| geek tragedy | Jun 2012 | #8 | |
| Live and Learn | Jun 2012 | #11 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #13 | |
| reorg | Jun 2012 | #14 | |
| Spider Jerusalem | Jun 2012 | #15 | |
| reorg | Jun 2012 | #17 | |
| Spider Jerusalem | Jun 2012 | #18 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #22 | |
| 14thColony | Jun 2012 | #16 | |
| Comrade Grumpy | Jun 2012 | #24 | |
| clang1 | Jun 2012 | #26 | |
| bupkus | Jun 2012 | #20 | |
| clang1 | Jun 2012 | #23 |
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:00 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
1. What program are they talking about?
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"His lawyers argued he might be placed on the programme without a trial and with no hope of release."
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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:06 AM
dipsydoodle (32,679 posts)
2. Are you saying
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there are no circumstances in the USA that anyone can be held without trial for an indefinite period ?
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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:10 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
3. Not at all.
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They seem to be referring to some sex offender program that one can be mandated to attend before a trial. I have never heard of such a thing although I wouldn't doubt it these days. Just wondered what they were referring to.
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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #3)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:21 AM
dipsydoodle (32,679 posts)
4. Well I can only assume
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that if "US authorities refused to pledge he would not be placed on a controversial sex offenders treatment programme." then such a program must exist.
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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #4)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:28 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
5. Exactly. Wondering if anyone knows about it. nt
Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:58 AM
reorg (2,068 posts)
9. 'civil commitment' - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - Girl, Interrupted
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At a High Court hearing on Wednesday in London, Sullivan’s lawyers said that their client would be willing to return to face trial in the United States if he is given assurance that he will not be subjected to ‘civil commitment’ proceedings. Civil commitment in the US means that the accused can be jailed indefinitely for as long as they’re considered a threat to society.
Ben Brandon, who is representing Sullivan, said, “Mr Sullivan says he will return to face trial in Minnesota but he is concerned about the prospect that, acquitted or convicted, he will be incarcerated for the rest of his natural life which is obviously a clear and flagrant breach of his human rights.” Brandon added that the number of sex offenders found guilty and incarcerated has grown by 85 percent in Minnesota since 2003 when a prisoner who was released went on to rape and murder another woman. “This process could happen even if he is not found guilty as it is a civil hearing,” said Brandon. “We say the statistics and evidence show there is the extreme likelihood that if committed this appellant will die in custody.” Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Americas-most-wanted-pedophile-Shawn-Sullivan-fights-extradition-from-Britain-to-US-149036645.html#ixzz1z5FOueI3 Involuntary commitment or civil commitment is a legal process through which an individual with symptoms of severe mental illness is court-ordered into treatment in a hospital (inpatient) or in the community (outpatient).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Germany |
Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to bupkus (Reply #6)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:53 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
7. Thanks for the clarification.
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Sorry to make you do the research.
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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #7)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to bupkus (Reply #10)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:04 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
12. Thanks again. nt
Response to bupkus (Reply #6)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:28 AM
cstanleytech (5,316 posts)
19. Isnt the other reason they are opposing the extradition because
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Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:28 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) no one has been released from the program in decades which if true means its in essecne a "for life" sentence without trial.
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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #19)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:58 AM
geek tragedy (25,696 posts)
8. If the UK prefers having its children raped
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to extraditing this miscreant, their choice. He's not a threat to anyone here now.
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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:03 AM
Live and Learn (1,470 posts)
11. Sounds like they just like due process of law to me. nt
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:45 AM
reorg (2,068 posts)
14. the pedophile hysteria is probably as widespread in Europe as it is in the US
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but life imprisonment without eligibility for parole is considered a violation of
THE EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 3 No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html |
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:52 AM
Spider Jerusalem (15,381 posts)
15. The UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights.
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The ruling in this case is under section 5.1:
Article 5 – Right to liberty and security'
1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law: a. the lawful detention of a person after conviction by a competent court; b. the lawful arrest or detention of a person for non-compliance with the lawful order of a court or in order to secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law; c. the lawful arrest or detention of a person effected for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority on reasonable suspicion of having committed an offence or when it is reasonably considered necessary to prevent his committing an offence or fleeing after having done so; d. the detention of a minor by lawful order for the purpose of educational supervision or his lawful detention for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority; e. the lawful detention of persons for the prevention of the spreading of infectious diseases, of persons of unsound mind, alcoholics or drug addicts or vagrants; f. the lawful arrest or detention of a person to prevent his effecting an unauthorised entry into the country or of a person against whom action is being taken with a view to deportation or extradition. "Civil commitment" is pretty clearly not legal grounds for detention and if there's a serious question about whether he'd be subject to it in the US then the UK court is entirely correct, under British law, to deny the extradition. |
Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #15)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:06 AM
reorg (2,068 posts)
17. I don't understand
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Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:09 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) What do you mean by "Civil commitment is pretty clearly not legal grounds for detention" when it appears to be lawful in Minnesota to be "civilly committed by the courts and placed in sex offender treatment for an indeterminate period of time" as cited in post #6?
Perhaps my problem is that I don't understand what "civil court" means in this instance. Does somebody have to sue so as to "civilly commit" the sex offender? |
Response to reorg (Reply #17)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:12 AM
Spider Jerusalem (15,381 posts)
18. Under the ECHR and British law it isn't legal detention.
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Whether it happens to be legal in Minnesota is irrelevant to the discussion. "conviction by a competent court" is not the same thing as "indefinite commitment by a civil court".
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Response to reorg (Reply #17)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:02 AM
14thColony (1,515 posts)
16. The UK feels a quaint obligation to follow laws based on the treaties they've signed...
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...regardless of the public's visceral reaction to a specific heinous case. How 20th century of them.
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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:20 PM
Comrade Grumpy (3,394 posts)
24. What an idiotic statement.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:38 PM
clang1 (884 posts)
26. BULLSHIT INSULT
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Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:53 PM USA/ET - Edit history (12) YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND FREEDOM OR DEMOCRACY. BECAUSE IF YOU TRULY DID, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SAID WHAT YOU SAID. PERIOD.
UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS. ALL OF YOU, THAT FEEL THIS WAY, NEED LESSONS IN AMERICAN CIVICS AND VALUES. ALL OF YOU. YOU FORGET WHAT DEMOCRACY IS. AND MORE THAN THAT AS I SEE IT. Recognize the Tyranny for what it is. CALL IT THAT. BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH. Meanwhile....The Progression continues..... |
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:58 PM
clang1 (884 posts)
23. Tyranny
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Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 02:06 PM USA/ET - Edit history (26) First reprogramming for being a sex offender, NEXT reprogramming for HOW You think as a Citizen. Indefinite Detention, without even a conviction?
TYRANNY. Call it what it is. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS IN THIS STORY. UNDERSTAND: THAT REGARDLESS OF ANY OF THE REASONS GIVEN FOR IT...TYRANNY IS, WHAT IT IS. AND THIS ISSUE AFFECTS EVERYONE. AND IT IS TYRANNY. PEOPLE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HISTORY AND WHY WE ARE AMERICANS AND NONE OF THIS IS AMERICAN. ALL OF IT, IS DISGUSTING TO ME. ANYONE THAT VALUES FREEDOM SHOULD BE DISGUSTED BY THIS. IT IS ALL FODDER OF THE POLICE STATE, AND THAT IS HISTORY. THE SOVIETS USED TO DO THIS TO PEOPLE TOO, EXCEPT IT WAS DONE FOR POLITICAL REASONS. THE ENTIRE WORLD UNDERSTANDS HOW THIS WORKS, THAT IS WHY IT IS SAYING IT. AMERICANS HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW ALL THIS WORKS, BECAUSE THEY ARE LIVING IT. THINK ABOUT THAT. WAKE UP. Meanwhile....The Progression continues... |

