Obama Says Anti-Cop Rhetoric Can Hurt Black Lives Matter

[LongtimeAZDem]

Source: Huffington Post

President Barack Obama condemned violence against police Sunday and even said excessively nasty rhetoric against police can hurt the cause of criminal justice reform.

“Whenever those of us who are concerned about fairness in the criminal justice system attack police officers, you are doing a disservice to the cause,” Obama said during a press conference in Spain on his way home from a NATO summit in Poland.

“But even rhetorically,” Obama continued, “if we paint police in broad brush without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if the rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause.”

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-black-lives-matter-police_us_57824c9ce4b0344d514fa8c5?section=

[Spitfire of ATJ]

1. He must be watching FOX "News".

[bravenak]

3. Seriously

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Nope. Prejudice against a large group of people is not the way to fight prejudice. . nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. FOX "News" has been looping clips of anti-cop chants from what they claim is BLM.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. President Obama is not looping in his speech. There is blanket anti-cop rhetoric in this thread. .nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. The cops aren't innocent ya know.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. There "ya" go with a blanket simplistic binary thinking statement again. It does not help.

Yes, there is a severe problem with police forces and police leadership.

Yes, many cops are not "innocent". I do know.

But slamming all cops by using the phrase "the cops" is counter-productive. At the end of the day you still have to live with them and among them and them among us.

When a sniper is shooting people from a university clock tower or a parking garage, "who ya gonna call"? The NRA? The Black Panthers? 911?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. Face it. The police aren't what they used to be since the show "COPS" came out.

[hamsterjill]

29. Thank you for a reasoned response.

Appreciate it! We cannot go forward as a society if we stereotype any one group. There are always good people; there are always bad people. We must become smart enough to see the individual.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. So you believe it isn't institutional?

[hamsterjill]

49. I believe in seeing the individual for what that individual is.

A good cop is a good cop. A bad cop is a bad cop. Not all cops are good. Not all cops are bad.

I don't believe it advances the argument to end racial profiling, etc. by promoting hate of all police officers because not all police officers are guilty of that. We live in a society where there is going to have to be a police force. The alternative would be chaos.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

54. How come those good cops aren't reporting the bad ones?

[hamsterjill]

58. Some of them may be. Do you know that they are not reporting?

Is it your intention to say that all police officers are racist? Should all police officers be suspect by virtue of the fact that they ARE police officers? Do you advocate having no police protection for any of us?

Look, the bad cops need to be held accountable. End of story. There needs to be a thorough investigation of the reality that black men are being targeted, and that needs to stop. We have no disagreement there. But I refuse to stereotype police officers any more than I will stereotype African American young men, white men, LGBT persons, or any other group of people. There will always be good and there will always be bad. It helps no one to assume that ALL of any group are bad.

The fact that American has and will continue to have a police force is a fact. Hating them all is not going to solve the problem.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. A racist in a uniform is more dangerous than one without a uniform.

[hamsterjill]

63. I agree.

But not everyone in a uniform is a racist. Those that are not should not be lumped in with those that are.

[LanternWaste]

57. the lives lost being so much less easy to focus on than the simplicity of correcting word usage.

Your precious salt heals the wounds of innocent black lives lost at the hands of law enforcement-- the lives lost being so much less easy to focus on than the simplicity of correcting word usage.

Chances are, you may even believe that your message is both relevant and accurate.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. My point is the lives lost demand thoughtful action, not knee-jerk simplistic prejudice v "cops". nt

[puffy socks]

67. The problem is

whenever people want to talk about the negatives where police are concerned , someone insists we interject how there are good cops. We're always stopping the conversation so that we can hear the same arguments designed to deflect from the uncomfortable issue.
The same lines have been dragged out for decades now:
"Put their lives on the line every day"
"So little pay" "have to deal with the dregs of society" "99% are good"
"Just wait until you need one" "youve never been a cop and couldnt handle it" "Everyone has always been down on cops" (which isn't true nearly every TV show every movie ...even the ones with a "bad cop" end with the good cops come around and save the day ...they're always portrayed as heroes)

Is there a time when we can actually discuss the colassal brutality problem on our police forces like adults without having to constantly interject how oh-so-wonderful they are?

When have the police come out and said nice things about their victims like Philandro or when they talk about BLM?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. Yes, discussions like these do tend to cover the same ground again and again.

It's like there is a path that they go down and then maybe at the end there are a few new points made and heard. Not everyone has the patience to re-read the same kind of arguments multiple times, understandably.

There have been a few threads that got started on a good track from the beginning.

For example, MineralMan started with a specific proposal: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027997766
TygrBright began with a story and made a specific recommendation: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027996607

There have been others, and others that I have not seen. There was one thread I did see that short-circuited the usual points and then made a request for proposals. I seem to remember there being several and I thought I responded, but I can't find it now.

[puffy socks]

69. Thanks

[Skittles]

25. neither are all the people they deal with

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. It's not their job to decide that....

Much less to determine punishment.

[Skittles]

43. you're making generalizations

so was I

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. Generally speaking.

[TomCADem]

42. Trump Says The Same Thing About Undocumented Immigrants...

...ya know.

[tonyt53]

51. Bingo!

[Skittles]

24. no

stereotyping is WRONG, no matter WHO is doing it

[TomCADem]

40. So, We Should Generalize That All Cops Are Racist Like Trump...

...Generalizes that all undocumented immigrants are murders and rapists?

[bravenak]

2. Oh please.

The police aint never been our allies yet, so it is impossible to lose what we never had. He has to say that shit because he is the president. What hurts the relationship is not rhetoric from the victims of police violence, but police violence itself.
There will always be people saying crazy shit. Police should be trained to deal with harsh words and if they cannot do it without then going out and murdering black men, then THEY have a big fucking problem.

We don't need nobody sniping cops from the rooftops, and we damn sure don't need racist cops patrolling the streets killing us for rudeness. If the police force was not so racist and destructive to black lives, then the rhetoric would not be so anti police.
And since our nation has never ever ever ever ever done on damn thing to stop the system from oppressing and locking up and killing our black men, why the fuck do we always put the onus on us black folks to be 'nice' and polite and use soothing rheyoric towards our potential murderers?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. "We"? No police officer ever helped one of 'us' / 'you' (plural) (whatever group you choose)?

All police are bad?

Or do you mean the double negative ironically and are really saying they are "our" allies?

President Obama's statement is entirely logical, carefully worded:

Obama continued, “if we paint police in broad brush without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if the rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause.”

Do not indulge in binary thinking. Most people don't, which is why simplistic rhetoric loses more allies than it gains. Slogans can be tuned for truth without sacrificing pithiness. Republicans don't do nuance.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

9. Bingo.

It's common throughout the world to use the police force to keep down an oppressed population.

Apartheid South Africa and Northern Ireland are good examples. If a Republican were in office BLM would be declared a terrorist organization.

[Sand Rat Expat]

12. I agree with him.

The point he's trying to make is that when you paint every cop as a "potential murderer" you're doing what they do by painting every person of color as a potential aggressor. Fighting prejudice with more prejudice isn't going to make the situation get better. Broad brush statements about all cops are just as bad as broad brush statements about all people of color, or all Muslims, or all whomever.

BLM isn't anti-police, it's anti-police brutality. But when you have rhetoric that blurs the line or outright steps over it, it just hands ammunition to critics who can now say "See?! They hate all cops!" It plays right into their hands by doing so. It allows them to write BLM off as a racist or criminal movement, which is exactly what the usual suspects on the right are doing. They don't need any help making their "points" so stop helping them!

What happened in Dallas is going to make things orders of magnitude worse, because now every cop out there is going to be even more jumpy and paranoid. Hell, they're already taught in the academy that they're a target because they wear the uniform.

It's more than a little counterproductive to condemn an entire group of people, with no regard for their individual virtue or vice, and in the same breath demand that they change. You lost them the moment you told them they're all awful people. Why are they going to listen to a person or group who so obviously hates them no matter what they do?

[bravenak]

13. If they stop profiling us and murdering us

We will be able to stop having that talk with our kids. And then stop profiling them. But they have to stop first because they kill far far far more of us than necessary. Kids even. They have killed CHILDREN of ours with no apology. Just blame our kids for not being polite enough to live, like Tamir.

[Sand Rat Expat]

15. I'll echo Bernardo de la Paz here.

No police officer ever helped any black person in the history of America? No police officer has ever protected a black person in the history of America? No police officer has ever saved a black person's life in the history of America? All cops are bad?

[bravenak]

16. The one does not make up for the many

They do not care that tgere are 'good' blacks when they profile us and arrest us and kill us for nothing at all. Why so caring about that one good cop? This is not sodom and gomorrah. I find it interesting that the foljs who want us to 'not profile' cops as bad to blacks never say shit about the fact that cops are the ones profiling us and this is us NOTICING and calling that shit out.
Those folks seem to think profiling cops is bad but profiling blacks is okay. Be ause they never defend us blacks from that profiling. They must just hate black folks and love cops since they are opposed to profiling cops but love cops profiling us.

[Sand Rat Expat]

17. I had a feeling I was wasting my keystrokes. I see now that I was correct. NT

[philosslayer]

21. The bad instances outweigh the good instances

By an order of magnitude.

[Sand Rat Expat]

23. You've no way of knowing that, now do you?

It's not as if it's headline news anytime a police officer helps, protects, or saves the life of a person of color, is it?

I'm not arguing that the cops are blameless and without fault. I am arguing that it is wrong to broad brush all cops as racist murderers. Just as it's wrong to broad brush all Muslims as religious fanatic terrorists.

Condemning all cops as part of the problem ignores the many officers who do good work in our communities, and isn't going to make this situation any better. You don't fight prejudice with more prejudice.

[philosslayer]

36. Read post #31

He/she expressed it better than I can

[Sand Rat Expat]

37. Read my response to his/her response. Same goes. NT

[Bradical79]

59. Yes, you do have a way of knowing that

You can look at the response of police organizations and whether police are prosecuted for their crimes. Individual acts of kindness are not anywhere near equivelant to collective support of abuse and violence.

[puffy socks]

31. Sorry

But the cops arent saving lives daily

They dont really protect us either.

Its not that those things haven't happened it's just that typically the police aren't around when the crime happens. people have to save themselves for the most part.

I believe the power coupled with the constant hero worship attracts sociopaths to police work like ants to a picnic.

It needs to stop. Imo it also allows them to continue to garner sympathy from the general public that isnt warranted and therefore impedes progress in stopping the huge police brutlity we have

[Sand Rat Expat]

35. Again, I'm not arguing that cops are blameless.

Every positive interaction with the police doesn't get the same traction in the news that the negative interactions do. Thus, there's no way to account for them. But if the negative interactions outweighed the positive, it stands to reason there'd be a whole lot more dead bodies in the streets.

And if they don't save lives or protect us, then we could do away with the police entirely and let the chips fall where they may, right? That's the endpoint of the argument you're making.

And I believe that most cops, like most people (and cops are people, after all...) are fundamentally decent people who try to do the best they can. We need to do better at weeding out the people who want to be cops for the wrong reasons, like the power trip and the authority fetish types.

And speaking as someone who, I daresay, knows a little better than most what cops deal with on a daily basis, that sympathy is warranted. It's not a job I could ever do.

There is a police brutality problem, yes, and it needs to be dealt with. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of cops are decent people doing a tough job for the right reasons, and I won't be party to or stand silently by while the good ones are smeared along with the bad ones.

[puffy socks]

44. I believe psycopaths and white supremicists have infiltrated our depts

which are now peppered here and there with a good cop or two because people have ignored the problem for so long and keep swearing most cops are good.

People lived in towns for years without a single cop, and lo and behold, they didnt all destroy each other. I know thats hard to believe..if you listen to what the paranoid cops say .

"And if they don't save lives or protect us, then we could do away with the police entirely and let the chips fall where they may, right? That's the endpoint of the argument you're making. "

"Texas Town Experiences 61% Drop in Crime After Firing Their Police Department"
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/texas-town-sees-61-drop-crime-firing-cops-hiring-private-firm/

"Entire Town’s Police Force Went on Strike, It Backfired. No One Wants Them Back"
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/acapulco-police-strike-backfired/



"But if the negative interactions outweighed the positive, it stands to reason there'd be a whole lot more dead bodies in the streets."

Have your eyes been shut? That's the problem over a thousand dead people "in the streets" every year at the hands of police, and those are the ones they decided to count.
Then there's the, severely beaten people, people being put in jail or having fines levied against them for fabricated charges.


How do psychopaths get away with shit? They put on a friendly face.
If they never did their jobs they'd easily get caught.

"And speaking as someone who, I daresay, knows a little better than most what cops deal with on a daily basis, that sympathy is warranted. It's not a job I could ever do. "

My cousin is a cop I understand the culture well. I went to a party where I was literally told that breaking the law is a "perq of the job" where they celebrated an officer getting his "license to beat ni**ers." and they all cheered. It made me sick and its an experience I will never forget.

Lots of people do jobs just as difficult and deal with psychotic people. Notice how nurses on psychiatric wards
are constantly fishing for sympathy or hero status when dealing with them .
EMTs deal with violent people all the time as they do in emergency rooms and they don't fish for sympathy or hero status, no award ceremonies for them, no whining about hours and crappy food.
Electrical lines men keep your houses warm and when the power goes out they go out in severe weather risking their lives.. where are the parades? the medals? All people do is call and complain that they don't have power , notice the power company and linesmen don't just say fuck you and threaten to cut off your electricity or say "its not a job you could do" because it's a tough job .

" I won't be party to or stand silently by while the good ones are smeared along with the bad ones."

Sure there are good cops..they get fired or will soon be fired.

A New Albany police officer of 19-years is being fired ... after she stopped a fellow cop from nearly killing a handcuffed man.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/whistleblower-cop-calls-corruption-department-naturally-fired/

and/or have their life threatened like Serpico or get killed... but there are not many.
Because nobody gives a damn and so nobody helps them becayse they are too busy protecting the so called "good cops" still on the forces.
http://www.activistpost.com/2016/05/its-police-appreciation-week-here-are-8-cops-who-risked-their-jobs-lives-to-expose-corruption.html



"But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of cops are decent people doing a tough job for all the right reasons"

That is not a fact.


If you believe so then explain why all those "good cops" still on the forces don't speak out against the brutality? I mean, since there's so many of them it should be no problem for them to make a public announcement that they understand the problem with hiring racist psychopaths and will immediately start firing the cops they know have crossed the line.


If these "good cops " witness misconduct and unreasonable force that means they should be arresting the officer breaking that law. Its literally their job. It is not their job to ignore it.

When they ignore these crimes and help cover them up and band together behind the wall of silence they become accomplices... ...they therefore are NOT good cops .


Why are all the "good cops" party to standing silently by while the the bad ones kill innocent AAs and kill them?

[Sand Rat Expat]

45. It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree.

You've clearly made up your mind that all cops are bad, and nothing I can say will change your mind, so I won't waste keystrokes trying.

Have a good night.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. I have clearly made up my mind that it's institutional and not just a few bad apples.

[loyalsister]

70. Where is the personal responsibility?

It seems that the US criminal "justice" system (and society as a whole) operates on a premise that it is okay that POC are at risk just living in their own skin. However, it is so unfair for a person wearing a uniform (that they voluntarily put on) to be afraid that it's understandable if they kill people.

[840high]

27. ...!100++++

[rbrnmw]

30. that's why even after being asked

to remove my sigline the part about the banner "murdered by police" I left it up, fuck sitting down. I don't condone killing cops but I won't pretend they haven't been killing black folks for as long as there had been police. This started with paddy rollers during slavery.

[bravenak]

32. I can't believe somebody thought it was okay to police your sigline

Like it's rude to bring up the fact that we get murdered.

[rbrnmw]

33. right?

just suppose sit down and shut up

[bravenak]

34. Learn our places or else

[forest444]

11. He's right - but he should keep in mind that Faux News can distort anything into "anti-cop."

The reich-wing smoke and mirrors machine never rests.

[Ash_F]

14. What's his stance on citizen review of police shootings?

Yes let us skip the rhetoric, let's hear what Obama has to say about policy.

[BumRushDaShow]

18. Policy recommendations were released a year ago

from the Presidential Task Force on 21st Century Policing (which included "independent" reviews) -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/03/02/wh-task-force-all-police-shootings-should-be-independently-reviewed/

I expect that absent federal legislation requiring something like "civilian review boards" (that some municipalities already have), the issue of actually making this a reality would be a tough slog in tens of thousands of municipalities, requiring local legislative action to make it so.

[Ash_F]

19. That is not the same as citizen review unfortunately.

"Independant" means review by some other neighboring jurisdiction.

I agree with the body cameras, but being caught on camera does not mean much if we have no control over the people making the judgements.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. Yup

But that is why I mentioned the issue of requiring such and what it would probably take to get there, let alone get some of the weaker recommendations implemented (something recently written about just 2 days ago). The anticipation of major political hurdles is probably why that whole report became a watered down "compromise" document.

I agree with this assessment from the link -

<...>

But another task force member, Brittany Packnett, said that change cannot be expected to happen overnight. “We are dealing with issues that are deeply rooted in systemic racism and oppression and those roots go all the way back to the founding of this country,” says Packnett, adding that the implementation of all of the recommendations would merely be one step in the right direction. “It’s unrealistic to think that in a years time we’re going to uproot systemic oppression and racism.”

<...>

http://time.com/4398392/obama-police-reform-report-task-force-on-21st-century-policing/

[puffy socks]

26. First

we have to believe this is true:
"..the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias.."

And I don't.


Where are the voices of this vast majority of good cops?

[GummyBearz]

61. Silent majority

The cops who have made it to the upper levels in the department are old and a lot of the time racist cops. They will throw the younger, decent cops out of their job if they were to speak up against a senior, racist cop. I have been told this by a long time friend who is a cop. Every cop knows the good ones from the bad ones, but they can't do anything because the bad ones have been promoted to positions of authority and will continue to promote others with the same beliefs as themselves. It has to be a total restructuring, top down firings, reforming the police academy testing, etc. to fix this mess.

[GeorgeGist]

39. Says the guy who called Cambridge police stupid.

[romanic]

41. I agree with the president.

“But even rhetorically,” Obama continued, “if we paint police in broad brush without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if the rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause.”

Anyone who doesn't understand this just want the struggle to remain for peace imo.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

50. Obama is correct and if some idiots would listen to him he could help their cause.

[tonyt53]

52. Andrew Young, another very fine American, said pretty much the same thing as Obama.

[Bradical79]

56. It's not realistic

A man is murdered by the police on tape. The murderer is defended by virtually every police organization and has about a 2% chance of even going to trial. This is the type of scenario that keeps pissing people off.

In what world would the police NOT be painted with a broad brush as a group? Why is it shocking that some would not believe most police are good people? Someone here reffered to BLM as thugs and extortionists for a fucking sit in. How reasonable is it to expect all of BLM movement and their supporters to be polite and not angry at the police as a whole when no group of people can be held to a similiar standard?

[NaturalHigh]

62. A riot that shuts down a freeway is a little more than "a fucking sit in."

[Bradical79]

66. I wasn't refering to that incident

I was refering to the sit in at the Toronto parade.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

64. All I'm saying is that if you come across as being against cops, a lot of people

will fight you tooth and nail. Ironically, we've had peaceful movements in our country before and leaders of one of them are thought of as some of the greatest leaders in our country's history.

[hollowdweller]

53. Well pictures of people getting killed by the cops can hurt the police.

I know what Obama is saying, but it's not speech that is hurting the cops, it's cell phone videos and pics of them pinning down people or shooting people after being pulled over for minor stuff.

Even if all the elected officials support the cops and the corporate media refuses to run the pics or vids they are still going to get out.

What was it that Jesus said:

Luke 12:3

Whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the housetops for all to hear!

[Bradical79]

55. It's fucking impossible to eliminate that rhetoric

When people are being murdered by police and the police unions support these murderers, some people are going to be angry at the police as a whole. BLM is not a hive mind of media trained political speech writers. It's a loosely organized protest movement. I know President Obama is saying what he's supposed to as cheif executive, but it's frustrating that people will distract from real issues over this sort of thing.

[Cal Carpenter]

71. ... Cop(s) .... ... Hurt Black Lives....

There, I fixed it.