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Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:25 PM

Venezuela's Chavez hosts close ally Ahmadinejad

Source: AFP

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and his Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pledged Friday to stand together to battle "imperialism," with Chavez criticizing tough sanctions on Tehran.

Upon his arrival in Caracas from Brazil, where he attended the UN-sponsored Rio+20 summit on sustainable development, Ahmadinejad said: "We will build our countries, and we will get away from all the pressures of imperialism."

Chavez responded: "We know the effort you must put in to overcome the obstacles imposed on you by imperialism -- blockades, threats, unilateral sanctions." The pair then headed into talks with their key ministers.

Chavez, who has been battling cancer for more than a year and faces a tough re-election contest in October, has expressed "solidarity" with key ally Iran as it faces growing pressure from the West over its suspect nuclear program.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/chavez-hosts-close-ally-ahmadinejad-170835520.html



Birds of a feather...

76 replies, 11392 views

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Reply Venezuela's Chavez hosts close ally Ahmadinejad (Original post)
Zorro Jun 2012 OP
may3rd Jun 2012 #1
MADem Jun 2012 #2
Zorro Jun 2012 #3
MADem Jun 2012 #7
oberliner Jun 2012 #33
MADem Jun 2012 #50
clang1 Jun 2012 #8
Zorro Jun 2012 #40
clang1 Jun 2012 #48
Zorro Jun 2012 #49
clang1 Jun 2012 #51
Zorro Jun 2012 #54
clang1 Jun 2012 #61
Zorro Jun 2012 #64
clang1 Jun 2012 #57
Zorro Jun 2012 #59
clang1 Jun 2012 #60
Zorro Jun 2012 #63
clang1 Jun 2012 #53
Zorro Jun 2012 #55
clang1 Jun 2012 #62
clang1 Jun 2012 #72
JI7 Jun 2012 #67
OnyxCollie Jun 2012 #4
Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #5
clang1 Jun 2012 #9
naaman fletcher Jun 2012 #16
Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #29
HuckleB Jun 2012 #34
MADem Jun 2012 #52
bitchkitty Jun 2012 #56
Judi Lynn Jun 2012 #68
bitchkitty Jun 2012 #73
clang1 Jun 2012 #71
COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #6
MADem Jun 2012 #10
clang1 Jun 2012 #11
MADem Jun 2012 #12
clang1 Jun 2012 #13
MADem Jun 2012 #14
clang1 Jun 2012 #18
MADem Jun 2012 #20
clang1 Jun 2012 #22
HuckleB Jun 2012 #35
may3rd Jun 2012 #38
HuckleB Jun 2012 #43
Enrique Jun 2012 #70
ChangoLoa Jun 2012 #74
RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #17
clang1 Jun 2012 #19
RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #21
clang1 Jun 2012 #24
RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #27
ChangoLoa Jun 2012 #76
MADem Jun 2012 #23
RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #25
clang1 Jun 2012 #26
MADem Jun 2012 #28
Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #30
MADem Jun 2012 #31
clang1 Jun 2012 #32
MADem Jun 2012 #47
Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #41
MADem Jun 2012 #46
HuckleB Jun 2012 #36
ChangoLoa Jun 2012 #75
clang1 Jun 2012 #15
HuckleB Jun 2012 #37
may3rd Jun 2012 #39
clang1 Jun 2012 #42
HuckleB Jun 2012 #44
clang1 Jun 2012 #45
Enrique Jun 2012 #69
joshcryer Jun 2012 #58
Comrade Grumpy Jun 2012 #65
joshcryer Jun 2012 #66

Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:32 PM

1. Ahmadinejad has lost the favor of the theocracy clerics

 

He will not be allowed to win another election unless he pulls off a major a coup... of some sorts

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:34 PM

2. Chavez looks like shit--rumors are he's heavily drugged as cancer has reached his bones.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:38 PM

3. If Hugo lives long enough

I think it's only a matter of time before he agrees to host Iran's medium range missiles.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:01 PM

7. Yeah, the ones they got from Martignetti Fireworks Company!

Hugo will be dead soon; I don't see that happening.

Additionally, the Wee Mayor of Teheran is on his way out--the ulema have tired of him. The Russians are leaning on the Iranians about nuke shit. Life is not terribly good in pretty Persia for a particular politician, these days.

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Response to MADem (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:04 PM

33. Problem is that the Supreme Leader isn't going anywhere

And he is the one calling the shots.

More than likely, the new Iranian president will be even more of a hard-liner.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:56 PM

50. Indeed, and that is certainly unfortunate! nt

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:02 PM

8. That statement is bullshit n/t

 

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Response to clang1 (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:18 PM

40. It may not be so far-fetched

After all, his Miami Consul was videotaped participating in discussions about cyber attacks against US facilities.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #40)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:46 PM

48. Link.

 

Until then Ooooohhhh nnoooooos, like 'Flame'? Any more to pull out of the air? I am also sure Venezuela is quite sophisticated when it comes to cyber warfare. NOT

Who all do some of you think your fooling?

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Response to clang1 (Reply #48)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:54 PM

49. Here you go, Gomer

Since you apparently suffer from either short-term memory loss or a lack of Google skills:

USA kicks out Venezuelan diplomat over cyber attack plot allegations

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/10/usa-venezuelan-diplomat-over-cyber-attack-plot-allegations/

Only one of many reports on the incident.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:59 PM

51. Lol more attacks

 

No you do your own work buddy. You made the statement you provide the link. Very simple. I hope it is worth my reading it as well.

And the thing is that this is still Neocon BS some people are spouting and your links do not change that.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:14 PM

54. If you were unaware of this recent event

then perhaps you should read more about the subjects you blather on about.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:34 PM

61. I read a lot of stuff dude

 

How much or how little I read seems to be your problem. Not mine.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #61)


Response to clang1 (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:22 PM

57. I looked at what you sent and nothing of substance, no real meat to it

 

and a pretty worthless link at that as at least one link in the document is broken. Due to your hostility and other reasons I am also very vigilant as to where you cite as well.

Meanwhile I see this. Now I could dig further, deeper, but I am not going to. I dont feel that I need to.


Obama Increases Hostility Toward Venezuela: It’s an Election Year
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/obama-increases-hostility-toward-venezuela-its-an-election-year
Mark Weisbrot
Folha de São Paulo (Brazil), January 18, 2012
Em Português
It has become common for political commentary in the U.S. to describe the Republican primary election as the “silly season,” as the candidates pander to the party’s far-right base with proposals and rhetoric that will be dropped in the general election. But unfortunately the “silly season” is not only a climate problem on the Republican side.

As I noted in this space two weeks ago, the Obama Administration has moved us closer to military confrontation with Iran, partly as a result of Republican pressure— although the administration has apparently been getting nervous about being dragged into a war by an Israeli military strike.

But there are other areas where cranking up hostilities for electoral purposes is without political risk. Venezuela is one. Florida is a swing state in U.S. presidential elections, so it was not surprising last week to see the administration expel Venezuela’s consul in Miami.

The expulsion was based on an alleged conversation by the Venezuelan Consul, Livia Acosta Noguera, as reported by the right-wing TV station Univision, in what looks like a failed attempt by undercover agents to entrap her in a fake “cyber-warfare” plot. It’s not clear that the conversation is real or accurate as reported, but even if it was, there’s no evidence that she fell for the trap.
The Obama Administration’s policy toward the left governments of Latin America has been “containment and roll-back,” scarcely distinguishable from that of George W. Bush. The U.S. government has been without an ambassador in Bolivia for more than three years, partly because of its refusal to disclose what the U.S. State Department is doing with the tens of millions of dollars they are spending annually inside that country. Washington is also supporting the opposition in Venezuela: for example, the Orwellian-named National Endowment for Democracy (NED) shows $1.6 million spent there in 2010, almost certainly the tip of a big iceberg. The bulk of NED funding is going to the International Republican Institute – the hard core affiliated with the Republican party – who publicly applauded the 2002 coup in Venezuela and played a major role in the coup that overthrew Haiti’s democratically elected government in 2004.
These are the same people who pushed, in 2005, for changes in electoral laws in Brazil that would weaken the Workers’ Party, as reported in this newspaper.

Washington is also not winning any friends with its decision last September to vote against loans from multilateral institutions (including the World Bank and Inter-American Development Bank) to Argentina.

But Venezuela is the main target, not because of anything in particular that President Chávez has done, but because it is sitting on an estimated 500 billion barrels of oil, the largest reserves in the world. Since not only Obama but Chávez is up for re-election this year, we can safely predict more publicity stunts in the months ahead. That has been the pattern in the past, as Washington attempts to influence the election in Venezuela through the international media.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Weisbrot is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, in Washington, D.C. He is also president of Just Foreign Policy.



Now was Chavez also playing 'cyberwarefare' games in 2004/2005 as well?


And we all know this as well:

Venezuela Passes Saudis to Hold World's Biggest Oil Reserves ...

www.bloomberg.com/.../venezuela-overtakes-saudis-for-largest-oil-r...


Jun 14, 2012 – Venezuela surpassed Saudi Arabia to become the world's largest holder of proven oil reserves, a resource that President Hugo Chavez ...


Now I smell a lot of Neocon type bullshit.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #57)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:31 PM

59. It was only all over the Latin America media

and the incriminating videotape played countless times on their news broadcasts.

Perhaps you should watch the Spanish channels if you want to keep current on affairs in Latin America, instead of depending on indirect reinterpretations of events from lovestruck Chavistas.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #59)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:33 PM

60. So what

 

Why don't you post a link to it? Does the video also show possible entrapment?

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Response to clang1 (Reply #60)


Response to Zorro (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:10 PM

53. hahah looooollllll I have never been called that before... Thanks

 

it fuuuunnnyyyyy

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Response to clang1 (Reply #53)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:16 PM

55. If you liked that

then I hope you'll find my future comments just as humorous.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:35 PM

62. I am sure I will, sure I will

 

Thus far all I see are a bunch of gasbags spouting hot air and not much else. And I think I'm done. Have a nice day.
I see economic warfare as being the issue at hand. And isn't that what we are all trying to stop

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Response to Zorro (Reply #3)


Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 03:18 AM

67. they look cute together

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:40 PM

4. They need to stick together.

Since the US is doing its best to take out OPEC countries at Saudi Arabia's behest.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:51 PM

5. Yup, both countries are the subject of aggressive threats and subversion from the U.S.

despite not having made credible threats against the U.S., and frankly, if some other country did target us with missiles, it would only be payback.

Sometimes I think the American military-industrial complex has a death wish. They do everything they can to piss off the rest of the world, interfere in things that are none of their business, and then use the piss-offedness of other countries as the excuse to arm themselves even further. I'm sick of their game, and most Americans would be if our media told the truth occasionally.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:11 PM

9. Heh

 

That's about how it pretty much works. Keep finding boogey men and people to exploit. Communism is gone so now it's Terrraaaaaa.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:10 PM

16. I am sick of the military industrial complex as well,

 

but what aggressive threats has the US made against Venezuela?

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 06:32 PM

29. Recognizing the illegal coup plotters, constant criticism of Chavez while

treating Colombia as some shining example of democracy, and invasions of Colombian troops, most likely as U.S. proxies.

Basically, they're giving Chavez the Salvador Allende treatment.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:05 PM

34. He wouldn't be there anymore, if that were the case.

 

Still, the US has certainly played poorly with Chavez. Still, Chavez plays with Iran. There are no good guys in this story.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:01 PM

52. I wouldn't call Columbia a shining example of anything except perhaps

a shining example of efficient worldwide cocaine distribution.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:17 PM

56. Well, there was this:

Venezuela coup linked to Bush team

Specialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged the plotters who tried to topple President Chavez

The failed coup in Venezuela was closely tied to senior officials in the US government, The Observer has established. They have long histories in the 'dirty wars' of the 1980s, and links to death squads working in Central America at that time.

Washington's involvement in the turbulent events that briefly removed left-wing leader Hugo Chavez from power last weekend resurrects fears about US ambitions in the hemisphere.

It also also deepens doubts about policy in the region being made by appointees to the Bush administration, all of whom owe their careers to serving in the dirty wars under President Reagan.

Read more

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 06:23 AM

68. Terrific article. It shows when the journalist actually does some research, doesn't it?

He'd get pitched right out from any of our corporate "news" sources, in no time at all!

I was determined to save this one for personal use. Thanks for giving the Democrats here a chance to see it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:16 AM

73. Yep - sometimes I love the Guardian.

I wish our journalists were allowed to tell the truth.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 08:55 AM

71. I had said I was done with this thread but you are correct

 

Last edited Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:06 AM - Edit history (2)

it is just sabre ratlling bullshit and button pushing. Now it is cyber warfare as well, and where did FLAME come from? It wasn't freaking Iran or Venezuela. So Iran and Venezuela react as any nation would. It is all the same sort of escalations, all the same sort of bullshit that just feeds on itself and it's just more economic warfare and more Neo-con, Neo-liberal BS.

I mean shit people, Chavez says the same thing about NAFTA as people here do!

Opposition to perceived "neoliberal" globalization

2005 UN World Summit

At the 2005 UN World Summit, Chávez on 15 September mocked and denounced the what he perceives to be a neoliberal model of globalization, promulgated by the Washington Consensus, as a fundamentally fraudulent and malicious scheme. Referring to such arrangements as Free Trade Area of the Americas, Dominican Republic-Central America Free Trade Agreement, and the North American Free Trade Agreement, Chávez stated that such

"market-oriented policies, open market policies" were and continue to be ... the fundamental cause of the great evils and the great tragedies currently suffered by the Third World".

Chávez also listed the accomplishments of his social welfare programs:



So which is it people? It's all crackheaded bullshit is what it is. I support globalization myself, but it's being fucked up and I agree with Chavez and a LOT of other people on that. Hell even Ross Perot said the same about NAFTA.

The current 'cold war' approach to globalization we have is complete trash and is about nothing more than exploitation of other peoples and their resources.


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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:00 PM

6. Both are soon to be doomed to obscurity. It's

reasonable that they seek solace with each other.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:11 PM

10. Hugo's other close pal-Qaddafi--didn't have a good end; and his buddy al Assad isn't without woes,

either.

Funny how a guy who pretends to be all "power to the people" only has friends amongst those who have brutal, repressive regimes? Throwing crumbs to the poor to keep them mollified isn't really democracy, IMO. "Here's a cheap cellphone, vote for me!" All the while, he's trying to get tips from North Korea, Syria, et. al. on how to have his way and consolidate his power without having to hand out too many trinkets.

At the end of the day, though, he's going to die, and probably sooner than later. Unlike Qaddafi, though, it'll likely be in a soft bed surrounded by his family. I'm guessing the family put a "little bit" of the national largess aside so they can live in comfort. They might want to move out of the country and find somewhere a bit less polarizing for them.

Thing is, with all of Hugo's gaming of the laws, the next guy up to bat will be able to play dictator too, if he has a mind. Hugo did a bad, bad thing screwing with the nation's system of laws.

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:21 PM

11. The Chavez Administration at 10 years: The Economic and Social Indicators

 

If your going to spout screed you may as well back it up with facts.

Venezuela: 10 Years After Chavez


www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf


File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by M Weisbrot - 2009 - Cited by 14 - Related articles
Feb 2, 2009 – The Chávez Administration at 10 Years: The Economy and Social ... During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by ...

No comment on the remainder of what you wrote.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:47 PM

12. Right back atcha, there, pal! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 02:00 PM

13. Certainly. I am always happy to provide facts. You are welcome. n/t

 

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Response to clang1 (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 02:57 PM

14. And if you ever do that, I'll give them the attention they merit. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:44 PM

18. Why they are right here. Just read them. n/t

 

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Response to clang1 (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:53 PM

20. Propaganda is not a synonym for "facts." nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:08 PM

22. Think what you wish, it's your mind. n/t

 

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Response to clang1 (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:07 PM

35. Fact: Oil money made things look good.

 

End of discussion.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:39 PM

38. oil price has to be well above $100 bbl to make things look good

 

Things are going south for our oil tap country but at least we are paying less at the pump

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Response to may3rd (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:47 PM

43. If it was the US, sure.

 

In SA, not so much.

Try again. Reality is good.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 07:28 AM

70. this is a comparison to 10 years ago

they had oil then too.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:35 AM

74. Oil was less than 15 $ a barrel when Chavez was elected

By the way, notice that the comparison you're given goes from 2003 to 2008. Those dates don't represent Chavez mandate, which started in 1999. The period 2003-2008 was chosen because it represents the super oil shock (biggest in history), from its lowest to its highest moment. Interestingly, Weisbrot has never written a word about the 1999-2003 period, and after 2008, he suddenly stopped updating his analysis. It's been 3-4 years and nothing? How come?

I'll give you an example*
Real GDP per capita growth:
Oil shock period, between 2003 and 2008
1) Real GDP went from 35,652,678,000,000 to 58,525,074,000,000 real bolivares (1997 prices)
2) Population went from 25,674,000 to 27,935,000
Conclusion: real GDP per capita went from 1,388,669 to 2,095,045 real bolivares (1997 prices), between 2003 and 2008
Average annual growth rate during the oil shock = 8,57%

Chavez's mandate, between 1998 and 2011
1) Real GDP went from 42,066,487,000,000 to 58,138,269,000,000 real bolivares (1997 prices)
2) Population went from 23,413,000 to 29,278,000
Conclusion: real GDP per capita went from 1,796,715 to 1,985,732 real bolivares (1997 prices), between 1998 and 2011
Average annual growth rate during Chavez's mandate = 0,77%

Stats can do magic, isn't it?
From these two periods, if asked what I think about Chavez's administration real growth results, I'd certainly pick his mandate over the 2003-2008 oil shock. To pick the oil shock as Weisbrot does is an obvious demonstration of partiality.

A 0,77% yearly growth rate per capita is by no means a good result. Venezuela must actually be one of the worst performers in the Latin American region, which has performed pretty well during that recent period.


*GDP stats come from the Venezuelan Central Bank Database at http://www.bcv.org.ve/c2/indicadores.asp Go to "Agregados Macroeconomicos/ PIB a precios corrientes y constantes. Serie desde 1950 (anual)" and open the .xls file

Demographic stats come from the Venezuelan State Stats Institute (INE) at http://www.ine.gov.ve/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=98&Itemid=51# , click at "Población total, por sexo al 30 de Junio, 1990-2015, (base Censo, 2001)"

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Response to clang1 (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:16 PM

17. Thank you for posting this information!

I can see why it might upset some people:

* GDP has nearly doubled, growing by 94.7 percent in 5.25 years.
* Poverty rate has been cut nearly in half from 54 percent of households in 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008.
* Extreme poverty has fallen by 72 percent.
* Infant mortality has fallen by more than one-third.
* The number of primary care physicians in the public sector has increased 12-fold.
* Total public debt has fallen from 30.7 percent of GDP to 14.3 percent.

(Information taken from the PDF that clang1 linked to)

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:46 PM

19. You are welcome

 

Those people that are upset are not people I would want on my side with all this anyway.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:04 PM

21. The Center for Economic and Policy Research

I have a great deal of respect for Mark Weisbrot and for Ha-Joon Chang in particular. Their credentials are unimpeachable. Hence the need for ad hominems.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:16 PM

24. re: I have a great deal of respect for Mark Weisbrot and for Ha-Joon Chang in particular.

 

Thanks. He has a book that looks like would be a good read.

Kicking Away the Ladder:
How the Economic and Intellectual Histories of Capitalism Have Been Re-Written to Justify Neo-Liberal Capitalism
Ha-Joon Chang (Cambridge University, UK)

--

Another book by Ha-Joon Chang that looks like it would make fun reading

23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism by Ha-Joon Chang

Ha-Joon Chang offers a masterful debunking of some of the myths of capitalism, writes John Gray


Amongst many issues, he controversially claims that "the washing machine has changed society more than the Internet"

Heh heh I can sort of see why he thinks this...

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Response to clang1 (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:42 PM

27. I've read "23 Things"

It's a fun, fascinating read. I've also read some of his earlier book, Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism (had to return it to the library before I had a chance to finish it.)

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:54 AM

76. WEISBROT, unimpeachable credentials?! He's only co-authored ONE book 13 years ago...

He's never even published a single article in a scientific journal.

You must be kidding...

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:09 PM

23. You might want to read this information.

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Response to MADem (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:24 PM

25. Thanks. An understandable perspective, given their board of directors...

... which reads like a veritable rogues gallery

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:40 PM

26. Indeed it is one n/t

 

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:48 PM

28. Angelina Jolie and Fareed Zakharia don't mind them.

And I know John Abizaid, he is no rogue. Nor is Madeleine Albright.

It looks like what it claims to be, a non-partisan entity. They cover the waterfront from left to right. Each crew endeavors to keep the other honest.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 06:35 PM

30. Whoa, Establishment Central!

Including a lot of CEOs.

Yep, I know where they're coming from.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 07:35 PM

31. Yeah, because the "establishment" is ALWAYS baaaaaad.

Fight the power, and whatever.

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Response to MADem (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 07:53 PM

32. I don't see any 'hippies' here, certainly not where I sit

 

You don't get it. Is calling people 'commies' next? We have things to do and you are not a part of the solution.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:40 PM

47. I don't know you from a hole in the wall. And do you have a squirrel in your pocket?

There's no privacy on this board and if your "we" actually do have things to do, get off your butt and go do them, instead of griping at me like a two year old.

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Response to MADem (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:31 PM

41. Until proven otherwise

I used to trust the Establishment--until I did graduate work at two Ivy League schools and learned what sociopathic creeps a lot of the future "movers and shakers" were.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 10:37 PM

46. Ivy Leaguers are not "the establishment," really--they think the establishment

exists to wipe their asses. They're the ELITES, better than the establishment, better than you or me...so they think. They think wrong, but they have a high view of themselves.

I think Ivy League schools are a massive waste of money. The only kids who come out of them with any talent are the scholarship kids! The legacies and the "Let me buy a building so you'll take my kid" students are morons who don't have essential social skills, never mind a real education--they probably hire someone else to take their tests for them!

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:09 PM

36. Ad hominem! Woo Hoo!

 

After ten years, nothing changes around here.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 10:47 AM

75. A 0,77% average annual growth rate of per capita real GDP is not a good result at all

During Chavez mandate, the annual average growth rate of per capita real GDP has only been of 0,77% (1998-2011). It must be one of the slowest growth rates in Latin America (detailed analysis in post # 74).

Why does Weisbrot start his comparison in 2003? Why does he stop in 2008? Chavez period goes from 1999 to 2011 (even if we must logically take 1998 as the initial year, because it shows the situation that Chavez received when he was elected)

In French, it's called a parti pris, a partial analysis.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:04 PM

15. Venezuela vs. United States Income Distribution Gini Coefficent : OECD USA vs. other members

 

Last edited Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:01 PM - Edit history (4)

So far as all that poverty in Venezuela there is a more equal income distribution there than that in the United States.

U.S. Income Distribution: Just How Unequal?

http://inequality.org/unequal-americas-income-distribution/
United States 37.0 (OECD) or 46.9 US Census Bureau 2010

http://globaledge.msu.edu/Countries/Venezuela/statistics
Venezuela 39 2011

Venezuela is also the least unequal country in Latin America.

Of the OECD countries we (USA) are at the bottom of the list in income inequality.

Australia 32.4
Austria 26.1
Belgium 25.6
Canada 32.8
Denmark 24.3
Finland 25.8
France 29.2
Germany 30.0
Italy 33.4
Luxembourg 29.2
Netherlands 29.7
Norway 25.6
Poland 31.0
Portugal 31.0
Spain 31.3
Sweden 25.9
United Kingdom 34.5
United States 37.0

Based on all the Human Rights information and other data that I have seen, what with all of the conflicts and all the contradictions depending upon who is has created the report, it is difficult for me to come to my own opinion on the Human rights situation in Venezuela as I have not lived there, I can certainly say Venezuela has no Guantanamo or ever had a worldwide system of torture sites like the United States has/does. So you tell me. I am also sure that, unlike the United States, Venezuela does not have 0.7% of adults in it's population in prisons either. Nor 1 out of 32 people in it's population under some form of correctional supervision as is the case in the United States.






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Response to clang1 (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 08:09 PM

37. What does that have to do with Chavez hanging out with middle east dictators?

 

Hmm.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:03 PM

39. you can't argue with a well oiled runaway train wreck of 'fact'

 

best step off the rails and take in the scrolling curiosities

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:37 PM

42. Not a damn thing Thank you

 

But what it does have to do with is the truth. That's what. There are at least 4 of you in this thread that seem to have a problem with truth. Nah...'riding the rails' as you say, is fine, I like facts, I detest snakes.

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Response to clang1 (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:49 PM

44. You don't seem to care about "truth," since logical fallacies appear to be your friend.

 

That doesn't help you or anyone else.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 09:56 PM

45. You back up what you have to say. All I see you making is any empty statement that sounds good.

 

I have a feeling you and I have very different ideas of what truth is. You backup what your idea of truth is. I am not here to play philosophy games with you either.

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Response to HuckleB (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 07:22 AM

69. Middle East Dictators

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:29 PM

58. 12 years of windfall profits. If Venezuela couldn't approach self-sufficiency then...

...it damn sure won't with the same people in charge in the next 12 years.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 01:30 AM

65. Both of these guys are likely going to be gone soon. Then we'll need new bogeymen.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #65)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 02:51 AM

66. Chavismo isn't going anywhere.

Ahmadinejad is just a figurehead and defers to the supreme leader. Nothing will change much with his ouster.

So the bogeymen will remain as they are, pretty much.

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