New NSA docs contradict 9/11 claims

Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:19 PM

Ian David (68,414 posts)

1. Haven't we been saying all this for 10 years? n/t

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:27 PM

harun (9,741 posts)

4. Yup

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:47 PM

patrice (47,261 posts)

6. Yes, every aspect of 9/11 & the War on Iraq, 10 years here at the DU, not in "liberal" media. nt

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:37 PM

MrTwister (76 posts)

82. It backs up totally what Sandy Berger,

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:21 AM

leveymg (26,302 posts)

103. It's a total fiction that Bush and his nat'l security circle were "on leave" during August '01.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #103)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:21 PM

libodem (11,807 posts)

140. yep

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Response to leveymg (Reply #103)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 04:12 PM

Kaleko (4,986 posts)

154. Great post.

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Response to Kaleko (Reply #154)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 05:09 PM

leveymg (26,302 posts)

156. Thank you for that.

I like it here.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #156)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:22 PM

Kaleko (4,986 posts)

173. One of these days

in one of these threads, you have to tell us why.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #103)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:05 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

219. There should be an investigation

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #219)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 08:14 AM

leveymg (26,302 posts)

221. If you can book Senate Hearing Room 226 and round up the Committee, I'll be there.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:54 AM

Blue_Tires (31,647 posts)

115. +1000

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:19 PM

emulatorloo (24,202 posts)

2. So now it all comes out.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 06:27 PM

nanabugg (2,198 posts)

217. So, Condi...what will your speech at the convention be about? nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:20 PM

arcane1 (19,946 posts)

3. Can you IMAGINE if Obama had spent the entire month of August 2009 on vacation???

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:31 PM

baldguy (30,398 posts)

5. LIHOP, anyone?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:53 PM

pacalo (20,643 posts)

9. After the way he handled Katrina, I've decided it's more ineptness.

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Response to pacalo (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:24 PM

baldguy (30,398 posts)

18. Who said their response to Katrina wasn't LIHOP as well?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:25 PM

pacalo (20,643 posts)

77. The aftermath under Bush's leadership was like living in a gulag situation.

National Guardsmen with assault rifles everywhere, having to line up at Wal-Mart (the only grocery store that was stocked up ) for groceries, checkpoints everywhere, curfews -- it was like living in a nightmare. It could very well have been LIHOP. He certainly couldn't put politics aside in dealing with the Democratic mayor & governor.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:29 PM

clang1 (884 posts)

147. re: Who said their response to Katrina wasn't LIHOP as well?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:26 AM

boppers (16,588 posts)

178. Hanlon's razor.

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Response to pacalo (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:17 PM

jwirr (20,905 posts)

138. They are business people. There is a distinct difference between running a business where you are

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:02 PM

Old and In the Way (36,254 posts)

12. PNAC wrote the game plan for the ME in the '90s

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:27 PM

Gregorian (19,599 posts)

19. The PNAC is the context to which I judge what happened.

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:13 PM

lib2DaBone (8,124 posts)

56. kick .. PNAC is alive and well today.. look at the mideast...

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #56)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

76. Romney will be a pushover for them

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:04 AM

olegramps (3,925 posts)

116. You are right on. It is scary what will transpire if he is elected.

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:37 AM

boppers (16,588 posts)

179. PNAC in context reads a lot different.

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Response to boppers (Reply #179)

Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:35 PM

Ashgrey77 (235 posts)

215. So some of the most powerful people in the United States,

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Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #215)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 06:23 PM

boppers (16,588 posts)

216. Some of the most powerful people in the world thought troops should get better laptops in the field.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:24 PM

Useless in FL (89 posts)

17. +10000

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:32 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

24. How about

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:41 PM

wildbilln864 (10,501 posts)

210. Nope!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:48 PM

L0oniX (17,309 posts)

7. The network news on this will be pre-empted by the usual dog and pony shows.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:31 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

23. Exactly.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:48 AM

90-percent (4,595 posts)

113. Dog and Pony shows?

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Response to 90-percent (Reply #113)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:34 AM

shanti (16,657 posts)

124. obama

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:52 PM

siligut (10,968 posts)

8. Hindsight is 20/20

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:57 PM

zeemike (10,810 posts)

10. At some point we need to apologize to the CTers.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:33 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

26. CTers?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:49 PM

stockholmer (3,751 posts)

34. conspiracy theorist (aka a smear used all too often to shut down a person not towing

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:04 PM

zeemike (10,810 posts)

39. Wow...that is the best summation of it I have ever seen.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:34 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

43. You wonder about Bush and the 'yellowcake' saga

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:45 PM

krkaufman (13,006 posts)

45. Lost me almost immediately

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:12 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

55. That's a good one

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:02 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

66. Seats?

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:10 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

71. They didn't even find a plane...

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:11 PM

stockholmer (3,751 posts)

85. more questions

Last edited Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:18 AM USA/ET - Edit history (2) 1. Building 7 was reported on live BBC TV was having collpased when it was still plainly visible on the screen. It didnt collapse until 20 minutes later. BBC Reports Collapse of WTC Building 7 Early-- TWICE 2. How were the calls from AA fights 77 (Pentagon crash) and Flight 93 (Pennsylvania 'Let's Roll' crash) made? Both were 757's. The Airphones were deactivated on AA 757's in January 2001, at the lastest, and cell phones couldnt be used at that height the planes were flying at the time almost all the calls were made. http://tinyurl.com/yl8gz59 Did American 77 Have Onboard Phones?  Statements from various representatives of American Airlines that its Boeing 757s did not have onboard phones, the most important of these being Chad Kinder, who, in response to the question whether it was true that there were no “seatback satellite phones on any Boeing 757 on September 11, 2001,” said: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”95  A page, dated January 28, 2001, purportedly from the Boeing 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual (757 AMM), which states: “The passenger telephone system was deactivated by ECO FO878.”96 Although the phones were physically removed from the planes in 2002, this document says that they were deactivated, so that they could not be used, almost eight months before September 11, 2001. The authenticity of this page is vouched for by an American Airlines employee who, although he wishes to remain anonymous, is known to Rob Balsamo of Pilots for 9/11 Truth.  The following statement of American Airlines Public Relations Representative John Hotard: “An Engineering Change Order to deactivate the seatback phone system on the 757 fleet had been issued by that time .” Following this statement, Hotard emphasized that photographs showing seatback phones in American 757s after 9/11 would not prove anything, for this reason: “We did two things: issued the engineering change orders to disconnect/disable the phones, but then did not physically remove the phones until the aircraft went . . . in for a complete overhaul.”97  The following statement by Captain Ralph Kolstad, who flew Boeing 757s (as well as 767s) as captain from 1993 until he retired in 2005: “he ‘air phones,’ as they were called, were . . . deactivated in early or mid 2001. They had been deactivated for quite some time prior to Sep 2001.” In response to a question about this statement, he added: “I have no proof, but I am absolutely certain that the phones were disconnected on the 757 long before Sep 2001. They were still physically installed in the aircraft, but they were not operational.”98 Given the fact that these four mutually supporting pieces of evidence come from completely different sources, they provide very strong evidence for the view that American 757s in 2001, and hence American Flight 77, did not have functioning onboard phones. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cell Phone Limitations http://tinyurl.com/yc24883 Given the cell phone technology available in 2001, cell phone calls from airliners at altitudes of more than a few thousand feet, especially calls lasting more than a few seconds, were virtually – and perhaps completely – impossible. And yet many of the reported cell phone calls occurred when the planes were above 25,000 or even 40,000 feet24 and also lasted a minute or more – with Amy Sweeney’s reported call even lasting for 12 minutes.25 Three problems have been pointed out: (1) The cell phone in those days had to complete a “handshake” with a cellsite on the ground, which took several seconds, so a cell phone in a high-speed plane would have had trouble staying connected to a cellsite long enough to complete a call. (2) The signals were sent out horizontally, from cellsite to cellsite, not vertically. Although there was some leakage upward, the system was not designed to activate cell phones at high altitudes.26 (3) Receiving a signal was made even more difficult by the insulation provided by the large mass of an airliner. Well-known Canadian scientist and mathematician A. K. Dewdney, who for many years had written a column for Scientific American, reported early in 2003 on experiments showing that these difficulties would have rendered impossible at least most of the reported cell phone calls from the 911 airliners.27 His experiments involved both single- and double-engine airplanes. Dewdney found that, in a single-engine plane, successful calls could be counted on only under 2,000 feet. Above that altitude, they became increasingly unlikely. At 20,000 feet, “the chance of a typical cellphone call making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred.... he probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand.” The likelihood of 13 successful calls, Dewdney added, would be “infinitesimal.”28 In later experiments using a twin-engine plane, which has greater mass and hence provides greater insulation from electronic signals, Dewdney found that the success rate decayed to 0 percent at 7,000 feet.29 A large airliner, having much greater mass, would provide far more insulation – a fact, Dewdney added, that “is very much in harmony with many anecdotal reports ...that in large passenger jets, one loses contact during takeoff, frequently before the plane reaches 1000 feet altitude.”30 Dewdney concluded, therefore, that numerous successful cell phone calls from airliners flying above 30,000 feet would have been “flat out impossible.”31 Such calls would become possible only several years later. In 2004, Qualcomm announced a successful demonstration of a fundamentally new kind of cell phone technology, involving a “picocell,” that would allow passengers “to place and receive calls as if they were on the ground.” American Airlines announced that this new technology was expected to be commercially available in 2006.32 This technology, in fact, first became available on commercial flights in March 2008.33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. The extraordinary amount of drills occuring on or around 9-11-2001. Biggest swarm in modern history, with many involving hijacked airplanes, some flown into hi-rises, and some of them planned before Bush was elected. http://archives.kpfa.org/data/20110907-Wed1300.mp3 Radio Pacifica, Guns and Butter Show THE 46 DRILLS, OPERATIONS, WAR GAMES, AND ACTIVITIES OF 9/11 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29696-The-46-drills-operations-war-games-and-activities-of-9-11 THE 46 DRILLS, OPERATIONS, WAR GAMES, AND ACTIVITIES OF 9/11 1 PRE-9/11 PREPARATION Drill Date Scenario 1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building 2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC 3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL 4 Able Danger: DIA, USSOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control) 5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control) 6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?) 7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control) 8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC 9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes Fedex plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC 10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL 11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off 12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 Continuity of government; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack) 13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom, October 2001) 14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision- Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition) 15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: USCanada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack) 16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders). 17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida 18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders). 19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls. 20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco 21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle 22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up 23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air Force Base in Georgia ON 9/11 Drill Date Scenario 24 FBI training exercise in Monterey, California for FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and special operations agents and heavy equipment away from Boston, NYC, Washington DC 25 NORAD annual readiness drill, Cheyenne Mountain, CO (Vigilant Guardian) 9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire organization 26 Vigilant Guardian: NORAD, NEADS, USCanada 9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack multiplication, diversion and confusion 27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant Warrior Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke 28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over southern Iraq 29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly zone over northern Iraq 30 Operation Northern Vigilance Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska and northern Canada to counter a Russian bomber drill 31 Operation Northern Guardian, Keflavik AFB, Iceland Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB, Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill 32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB, Nevada: 100 pilots 9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air Force Base also depleted. 33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina 34 National Reconnaissance Office drill, Chantilly, Virginia 9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise government building; satellite imaging (WTC attack) 35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from backup command center at Pier 92, Hudson River. 36 Fort Meyer VA Education Center training drill for 9/11 Assembled and indoctrinated Pentagon first responders, local firemen. 37 Timely Alert II, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey 9/11 Indoctrination of WTC first responders. 38 World Trade Center Emergency Drill, Fiduciary Trust Co., 97th floor, South Tower 9/11 Meeting called to assemble and silence unreliable outside contractors? 39 Global Guardian, STRATCOM: Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Barksdale AFB, Louisiana; Minot AFB, North Dakota; Whiteman AFB, Missouri. 9/11 Nuclear warfighting; Armageddon. (deterrence of Russia and China during invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan) 40 Amalgam Warrior 9/11 Large live-fly air defense and air intercept, tracking, and surveillance drill; air defense against foreign retaliation. 41 Crown Vigilance, Air Combat Command 9/11 No details known. 42 Apollo Guardian, US Space Command 9/11 No details known. 43 AWACS drill, ordered by NORAD commander Gen. Larry Arnold 9/11 Two AWACS aircraft from Tinker AFB, Oklahoma sent over Washington DC and Florida; surveillance of capital and president during coup. 44 Global Guardian Computer Network Attack 9/11 Enemy forces “war dialed” STRATCOM’s telephone and fax systems; “bad insider” has access to key C³ system (missile launch option) 45 STRATCOM Strategic Advisory Committee, Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Andrews AFB, MD; Wright- Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio. 9/11 Three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes (Doomsday or Looking Glass) airborne; passengers include Brent Scowcroft; Warren Buffet at Offutt. (Committee. of Public Safety option?)) After 9/11 Drill Date Scenario 46 Amalgam Virgo ‘02 Scheduled for June 2002 Air defense, interception, surveillance, and pursuit drill; Delta 757 with real Delta pilots, actors as passengers, FBI as hijackers - deviated from Salt Lake City to Hawaii; Canadian police to hijack DC-9 near Vancouver BC. ------------------------------------------------ the best 9-11 timeline on the net: http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #85)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:23 PM

Old and In the Way (36,254 posts)

86. A simple question relating to point 3: was 11, 175, 193, or 77 involved in the hijacking drills?

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #86)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:19 PM

stockholmer (3,751 posts)

192. none were part of the live drills that day but..................

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #192)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:55 PM

Old and In the Way (36,254 posts)

193. Curious how you know this.

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #193)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 07:39 PM

stockholmer (3,751 posts)

195. sorry, I should have said none that I know of, I apologize

As for the 'official' 9-11 fable put out by the USA government, that, IMHO, is the true conspiracy theory, requiring so much willful denial of events and pure hard evidence that it boggles the mind. I do not pretend to know exactly how it happened, but I would bet my life that it didn't happen the way the official line says it did. 9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out, Full-length, Pre-Release-v1.3; Low-Res. http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/629-world-premiere-tour-911-explosive-evidence-experts-speak-out-final-edition.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Government Admits Flight 93 Shot Down In the prosecution of Bin Laden's driver at Gitmo, the government just made an interesting admission. Prosecutor Timothy Stone made the admission in his opening remarks: "If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome," Stone, a Navy officer, said in his opening remarks." The quote originally appeared in a Reuters article, http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/23/us-guantanamo-hearings-hamdan-idUSN2230096620080723 which was then edited to omit the quote. It still appears in the version of the article posted in the Brisbane Times (Australia) and other newspapers. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world/the-fourth-plane-wouldve-hit-the-dome/2008/07/23/1216492500620.html

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #195)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 07:50 PM

Old and In the Way (36,254 posts)

196. Thanks...and I couldn't agree more with this point:

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:09 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

102. I can answer a couple of your questions.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:27 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

110. About DNA, and why it may have been more likely to have survived a blast than metal

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:03 PM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)

128. Not all seats would have burned up

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:45 AM

boppers (16,588 posts)

180. You know about google, right?

"But I bet no one here can find one picture of a seat." Here, have two: Seats:

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:31 PM

cpwm17 (1,252 posts)

141. This Video was discussed in Creative Speculation several month ago

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:41 PM

mysticalchick (1,086 posts)

148. Thank you for sharing that

... hadn't seen it but have been totally on-board with all of it since the beginning when my spidey sense caused me to ask that same question to my husband the night it happened. I remember saying "You don't think anyone would allow this to happen or cause it to happen on purpose, do you?" and 10 years later, that question is still out there. Wonderful video. Reposted on FB and expect some fireworks.

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:59 PM

KansDem (24,313 posts)

151. Pardon my ignorance...

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:56 PM

zeemike (10,810 posts)

37. Conspiracy theorist.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:59 PM

apocalypsehow (12,751 posts)

51. Why? Not one word in either the OP nor the extended article supports MIHOP or

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #51)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:30 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

58. Why can't we ask

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #58)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:51 AM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)

126. Your questions are very easily answered

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Response to zeemike (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:46 PM

Raster (12,614 posts)

92. No it isn't and never was.

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Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:50 AM

90-percent (4,595 posts)

114. Dick Cheney* knew more about 9/11 than Saddam Hussein.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:05 AM

Major Nikon (9,617 posts)

95. So because Bush lied about something everyone knew he lied about...

that means everything the foil hatters said was right?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:36 AM

zeemike (10,810 posts)

98. Did I say that?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:00 PM

FiveGoodMen (13,232 posts)

11. Ridiculous!

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:03 PM

frylock (19,035 posts)

13. i'll take a LIHOP with a large limited hangout to go..

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:13 PM

Mnpaul (1,415 posts)

14. They also fired the #1 Al Qaeda expert

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:36 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

28. Check this out

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 PM

demwing (10,921 posts)

31. Sorry, audio is too annoying

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:20 PM

stupidicus (465 posts)

15. that's not all

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:20 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

16. People tend to forget

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:33 PM

JonLP24 (14,005 posts)

25. +1

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:56 PM

krkaufman (13,006 posts)

49. great summary

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Response to krkaufman (Reply #49)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:45 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

60. The very fact that they claimed Clinton was trying to distract

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:00 PM

nashville_brook (17,237 posts)

52. he hit the "trifecta"

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:47 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

61. he hit the "trifecta"

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:04 PM

nashville_brook (17,237 posts)

129. for reals.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:21 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

74. The British seem to suggest that bush and blair had already decided to invade Iraq

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:21 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

117. Rumsfeld was running around the Pentagon that day

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Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:18 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

146. Meanwhile Cheney was in the situation room

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #146)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:05 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

163. I don't understand

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #163)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:19 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

169. Charles Burlingame

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #169)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:25 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

170. That's interesting

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:26 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

167. Just found this

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:47 AM

Uncle Joe (24,997 posts)

119. + 2, Welcome to D.U. Spitfire

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:48 AM

SammyWinstonJack (35,105 posts)

120. How convenient.....

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #120)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 03:11 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (7,339 posts)

145. Yup.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:28 PM

rateyes (16,144 posts)

20. will the docs be posted online? nt

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Response to rateyes (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 02:15 PM

Octafish (33,393 posts)

204. Hiya, rateyes!

They're at GWU's NSA... http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB381/

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Response to Octafish (Reply #204)

Fri Jun 22, 2012, 10:01 PM

rateyes (16,144 posts)

207. hey octafish

thanks

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:30 PM

JonLP24 (14,005 posts)

21. No surprise there

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:31 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

22. WARNING! WARNING!

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:46 PM

snappyturtle (11,770 posts)

32. I so believe your lasst sentence! Always thought that myself. Osama was the ticket to the wars. nt

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:48 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

63. We ALWAYS need

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 07:51 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

36. ...and a hole in the side of the pentagon

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Response to Blanks (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:00 PM

Cooley Hurd (20,619 posts)

38. .

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:40 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

44. I don't believe all the conspiracy theories.

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:02 PM

former9thward (6,358 posts)

53. So if not the plane then what happened to Flight 77?

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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:58 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

65. It's stupid to ask questions?

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #65)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:09 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

70. I always have this burning question

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #70)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:23 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

87. The fighters are supposed to be scrambled...

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Response to Blanks (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:32 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

107. Tell your wife my neighbor was on that "missile" that hit the Pentagon.

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Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:24 AM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

109. I'm not sure why I would tell her that...

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Response to Blanks (Reply #109)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:45 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

112. I'm not sure what documentary you saw.

Last edited Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:01 AM USA/ET - Edit history (4) Here is some explanation for why the hole appeared smaller than you would have expected. The wings collapsed in. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp I said that because your wife thinks that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon. My neighbor was on Flight 77, and it never reached its destination, and my boss saw the plane hit - she called our office right after she called 911, so we knew that a plane had hit the Pentagon - way before anything could be faked. I believe that a plane hit the Pentagon because there are many, many other eyewitness accounts of a large, commercial airliner going into the Pentagon. Many collected here with links to the sources: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html There are tall office buildings and apartments there. There was not a mass hallucination in Arlington, VA the morning of 9/11. If a missile hit the Pentagon at the same time, why hasn't anyone said that they saw one - and could identify it as clearly as the eyewitnesses identified a large aircraft? No one saw fighters because there weren't any. Why? I don't know. I can't tell you that. I heard them a short time later. If you want to ignore the photos of the plane wreckage around the Pentagon, fine. Please tell me how they managed that within seconds of the "missile" hitting and the mass hypnosis of people on I-395, Washington Blvd, and in the high rises around the Pentagon.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #112)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:28 AM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

123. I can see that the miscommunication is my fault.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #123)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:15 PM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

130. I understand - and we won't ever know everything that happened that day.

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Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:47 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

137. Everyone has gotten kind of fired up.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #137)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:23 AM

cpwm17 (1,252 posts)

177. A scale model wouldn't work

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Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:00 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

184. OK, so an analysis on an individual column

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Response to Blanks (Reply #184)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:45 PM

cpwm17 (1,252 posts)

188. Normally the only place on DU that 9-11 conspiracies can be discussed is in Creative Speculation

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #188)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 04:12 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

189. Perhaps it is time to move on then

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #130)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:44 PM

Blanks (1,350 posts)

186. You asked several times...

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:17 PM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)

131. Air defense is done via aircraft

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #131)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:23 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

166. Surely

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #166)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:47 PM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)

174. What does this have to do with Friend or Foe?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #174)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:24 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

175. Unlikely

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #175)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 11:52 PM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)

176. Their other option was what, exactly?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:19 PM

former9thward (6,358 posts)

135. The Pentagon doesn't have missile defenses.

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Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:20 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

164. I don't believe that

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #65)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:23 PM

former9thward (6,358 posts)

136. It is stupid to suggest something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #136)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:59 PM

Qutzupalotl (7,513 posts)

143. The missile-hitting-the-Pentagon is an example of disinfo mentioned above.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #143)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 06:31 PM

former9thward (6,358 posts)

159. That would involve scores of people if not hundreds.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #159)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 10:10 PM

Qutzupalotl (7,513 posts)

172. That wouldn't explain the foreknowledge.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #172)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:28 PM

former9thward (6,358 posts)

185. Apparently you think the VP can just pick a phone and order something.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #185)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:11 PM

Qutzupalotl (7,513 posts)

199. Read "Crossing the Rubicon." nt

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Response to former9thward (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:29 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

106. Yes - I would love to know what happened to my neighbor, as would his wife and kids

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Response to Blanks (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:47 PM

Politicalboi (9,438 posts)

62. Yep

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 10:17 PM

Rosa Luxemburg (21,955 posts)

73. Weird

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Response to Blanks (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:26 AM

ehrnst (2,906 posts)

105. I would like to know what happened to the passengers on Flight 77.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 12:20 PM

jeff47 (7,356 posts)