Are employers required to grant Muslim employees prayer breaks?
Source: Yahoo News
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) filed a religious discrimination complaint on Tuesday, in an ongoing debate over prayer breaks between a Wisconsin manufacturing company and Muslim workers.
Ariens Co., which manufactures snow blowers and lawnmowers at a plant outside Green Bay, Wis., fired seven of its Muslim employees in January, and another 14 resigned, after the company told Muslim workers they should stop taking an extra break for prayer, Laura Putre reported for Industry Week.
The company had hired the workers, Somali immigrants from Green Bay, several months earlier and accommodated them with both prayer rooms and a bus service to help with the 40-minute commute. A dispute arose in January after the non-Muslim workers complained the Somali workers were taking extra breaks for prayer time, sometimes without communicating with supervisors. The company told workers to stick to two 10-minute breaks, and 53 workers walked off the job in protest.
Muslim beliefs require five daily prayers, spaced throughout the day, and many Muslims adjust their prayer times to accommodate work, school, or travel. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) requires employers to accommodate a religious practice such as prayer unless it causes the company “undue hardship" by decreasing “workplace efficiency."
Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/employers-required-grant-muslim-employees-prayer-breaks-201836634.html
Good on CAIR. Hopefully the Obama Administration will weigh in on the side of the workers as well. Islamophobia and anti-immigrant bigotry continue to grow. They can't give them an extra 5 minutes?? Yeah, right.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Tarc
(10,476 posts)You go to work to do your job, not to practice religion. Do that shit on your own time.
What next? Christians get Sundays off?
840high
(17,196 posts)agree with you - I do.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)I worked with a guy at a department store who refused to touch any of the Halloween merchandise, because Satan. It was annoying since we had a lot of it to unpack, price, shelve and ring up.
Nirgendwo
(32 posts)They are required to let you take at least 30 minutes off to eat after working 6 hours.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,165 posts)They should be able to do their pre-prayer washing in a couple of minutes and then the prayers take 3 to 5 minutes. That still comes in under 10 minutes. The prayer during their meal break shouldn't be a problem.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,165 posts)The traditional prayer times are sunrise, noon, afternoon, sunset and before sleep. They should only need the afternoon break and lunchtime. There is no mid-morning prayer time.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)They should have been able to pray with the ten minute breaks and the lunch break, without any problem.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And no one would be accused of being Christophobic.
Midnight Writer
(21,738 posts)This was an RR Donnelly printing plant. We had several employees that were fundamentalist Christians (mostly members of a single extended family; aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.) and very outspoken about their Constitutional rights to worship in the workplace. Supervisors were scared to death that they would have a complaint filed against them for violating the religious freedom of these folk.
The scheduled breaks were honestly no big deal. The problems came when we had a particularly dirty or physically tough job, and some (not all) of these folks would suddenly be moved by The Lord, Our God and Savior Jesus Christ, to leave the workroom floor and pray or study their Bible. However, in the 18 years I worked there, I never once saw any of these people disciplined, let alone lose their jobs as these Muslims apparently did.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And no government who would enforce such a thing...and no one says you are Christophobic.
Christians are fair game for criticism, and mocking, even on this board, and no one is accused of a phobia because of it...but the far more regressive religion of Islam is protected.
Go figure.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It seems that the problem occurred when production broke down (this is a manufacturing plant) and the workers, upon being berated, responded that they were short staffed.
The two extra breaks with more Muslim employees would cause problems.
Here's another article giving more details:
“We began looking at options back in October, including having unpaid breaks,” Stilp said. “We took each of these alternatives through a model to see if they were feasible, but none of them worked with our production system.”
In any case, this will get an objective third-party review.
Kablooie
(18,625 posts)Operations have to pause so the doctors can pray?
Busses can stop so the driver can pray?
And how would it look if TSA agents stopped checking bags several times a day to put down a mat and kowtow?
It's ridiculous.
Workers have to choose jobs that fit with their beliefs.
They can't barge into a company and demand the company accommodate their beliefs.
Religious beliefs are just beliefs. They aren't laws of nature.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)However it does not provide that an employer must impair its basic business efficiency:
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.
...
An employer does not have to accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices if doing so would cause undue hardship to the employer. An accommodation may cause undue hardship if it is costly, compromises workplace safety, decreases workplace efficiency, infringes on the rights of other employees, or requires other employees to do more than their share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work.
It is a paradox under US law, but a "reasonable accommodation" for a small group of religious workers may become an "undue hardship" if the proportion of workers needing the accommodation rises enough, which is probably what happened here.
SusanLarson
(284 posts)Either sincerely held beliefs count or they don't. You can't have it both ways.
If they count, then it is discrimination not to allow them the time required during the day to practice their religion. The company knew these employees were Islamic when they hired them, and thus also accepted allowing them to follow the dictates of their faith.
"Most Muslims can complete their prayers in three to five minutes, although pre-prayer ablutions, or ritual washing, can take almost as long. For each of the five prayers - pre-dawn, noon, afternoon, sunset, and night — Muslims have a few hours to make them, although some say prayers are best when made early." Only two of the five would impact most employees.
6-10 minutes twice a day, hardly a major imposition.
Smokers are given more breaks than that.
If sincerely held beliefs don't count, it's time to revisit the horrible Hobby Lobby Supreme Court decision.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)n/t
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)Nobody is targeting only Muslims. It's just that Muslims are the only ones being unreasonable enough to ask employers to give them special privileges that people of other faiths don't get. Here in America, people practice their faith at home, and keep it out of the workplace, so as not to infringe upon anyone else's rights/beliefs. If they're allowed breaks 5 times a day, then everyone else deserves the same number of breaks, or else it's discrimination against non-Muslims.
They should be thankful they can even come out as Muslim. As a Wiccan, I don't even have the freedom to identify my faith in real life, for fear of religious persecution. Muslims, on the other hand, act as if it's the Western world's job to cater to their every whim. Between them and the right-wing Christians, it's kind of hard trying to live among these people.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The law also requires accommodation as noted in the original article, provided the observence does not cause "undue hardship" on workplace efficiency... which seems a pretty vague damn term to me, but that's what a union is for... except there is no union in this picture.
Also, this?
Kind of an odd follow-up to "there's no discrimination!"
christx30
(6,241 posts)we used to do two-man builds. A two man team would be responsible for building a minimum 20 computers per hour. One person would install the motherboard, power supply, and hard drive. The other person would install the optical and floppy drives.
We had a Muslim co-worker that would take his prayer breaks. No one wanted to work with him, that person would have to do both sides of the table during those breaks, and our numbers would suffer. No one else got those breaks. It was a privilege allowed for him. And it's no different than if someone had to use the rest room a bunch because of a medical reason. Sure, they have to allow it, but it sucks for the guy working with that person.
After a while we went to one man builds, and the tables and the process were redesigned so each of us could do 13 per hour.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)One can't help needing to use the bathroom.
No one needs extra time to talk to yourself.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Both will mess with your numbers (and if your continued employment and bonuses are based on your numbers, you don't want to be dependent on other people taking time off the build table to pray or use the rest room). The restroom thing can't be helped. It sucks for your partner, but it can't be helped.
But prayer can be helped. If you feel that strongly about your faith, find a place to work that you won't hurt other people. Especially if you want to take breaks that other people won't get.
catrose
(5,065 posts)Where I've worked, they take breaks as often as they want, always longer than 5 minutes.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If a few people leave, the line shuts down.
Where I worked you can smoke during your assigned breaks or find a new job.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)My current employer has a pretty fair schedule. We get a one hour paid lunch break each day, a 30 minute fitness break, and two 20 minute regular breaks. That's more than two hours of paid non-work time each day. The fitness break can only be used for fitness related activities, but you're allowed to leave the property during your lunch and 20 minute breaks to smoke if you want (yes, I did say leave the property...smokers are required to go all the way out to the sidewalk by the street).
But if you leave the property while you're on the clock and NOT on a break? It's treated the same as if you'd simply walked out and went home. It's a job ender. Saying "I just went out for a smoke" would gain you as much sympathy as "I just went out for a drink".
I've never asked, but I'm pretty sure we don't allow prayer time either. That's what the breaks are for.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)even though there were only 5 of us out of a staff of 30. We had to stand outside and I was fortunate my office was close to the side door, so I was able to slip out whenever I wanted to take a cigarette break.
catrose
(5,065 posts)On the industry/company. We were urged to be tolerant, which was difficult on deadline days when I'd work through lunch and others would take 4-5 breaks/day.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)and had monthly deadlines. I copy-edited 35 hunting and fishing magazines across the U.S. Despite my frequent smoke breaks, I never missed a deadline.
bighart
(1,565 posts)and smokers were not given extra breaks, in fact I disciplined people because they were sneaking out to smoke when it wasn't break time.
Production requires people in dependent operations to be at their work stations for parts to flow through the process.
When there is a gap in the line it stops other dependent operations from being able to do their jobs.
Allowing one group of people to take extra breaks does cause an undue hardship as it backs up work and causes other employees to be idle while they wait for the missing individual to return and restart the flow.
catrose
(5,065 posts)Industries would have different practices.
MRadtke
(6 posts)Smoking at the workplace is illegal in Wisconsin, one would need to punch out and leave the property. And really, no such thing as a 6 or even at 10 minute break unless it is VERY strictly monitored by the company.
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)I'm Wiccan. So, should my employer allow me to put on my ritual garb, mark out a freakin' circle in the break room, burn incense, and chant, "We all come from the Goddess, and to her we shall return"?
Hell, no. Nor should Muslims, Christians, Jews, or anyone else be performing their rituals in the workplace.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Outrageous! 
rug
(82,333 posts)This is a minimal request which was granted, then denied.
Some views from people who work(ed) there.
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Ariens-Company/reviews?fcountry=US&ftopic=paybenefits
Nihil
(13,508 posts)The company was already accomodating their religious demands but those employees
chose not to cooperate and made totally unreasonable (*) further demands.
It should also be noted that there were other Muslims who were completely satisfied
with the arrangements.
(*) = leaving their workplace on a production floor without notifying anyone
christx30
(6,241 posts)everywhere I've worked. Bosses give a privilege. Employees abuse said privilege. Bosses take away privilege.
Tale as old as time.
True as it could be.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Agreed. This is ridiculous.
fbc
(1,668 posts)then pray instead
Ilsa
(61,692 posts)1. The two breaks weren't enough,
2. Why they were just disappearing on the job without telling their supervisors.
I think this depends also on the type of work being done. For some types of jobs it's going to be a hardship.
I think the company was pretty accomodating for prayers and evenn providing transportation. I doubt that would be available with most employers.
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Or they do not get paid for the extra 5 minutes everyone else has to do their jobs.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)
csziggy
(34,135 posts)<SNIP>
"We all practice our Christianity differently. There are many that practice their Muslim faith differently," Ariens said. "... We're making lawnmowers and snowblowers. We're not trying to practice one religion or another."
Bashir Mahamed, a Muslim, has worked at Ariens for almost 10 years and said in an interview that he believes prayer times allow some leeway. He hasn't had a problem working his prayer times around his shifts at the company.
"If you are working or you are sick … you can pray after when you have time," he said. "... It is flexible. It's not rigid."
More: http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/02/09/ariens-stands-firings-muslim-workers/79810192/
It sounds as though the workers who had problems with taking their prayer breaks according to company policy might be from stricter sects of Islam. According to this article, there are still 32 Muslims working at Ariens who apparently manage to practice their religion and still do their work.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)more breaks without telling anyone?
The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) requires employers to accommodate a religious practice such as prayer unless it causes the company “undue hardship" by decreasing “workplace efficiency."
Seems that the employer complied with this. The employees apparently didn't. If that's the case, what's the issue? Where's the Islamophobia? Where's the anti-immigrant bigotry?
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)No prayer or smoking breaks required.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)You get your breaks. You get your lunch. Biology breaks as appropriate. That's it. I'm not giving people Invisible Sky Daddy Time as well. Pray on your time.
Hekate
(90,633 posts)Nothing stops Christians from praying over their meals, which are taken on lunch break. If employees get 3 mandated breaks per day, counting lunch, that gives everyone the opportunity to do with it what they will -- say a quick rosary or face Mecca or grab a smoke. It's nobody's business.
Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day, iirc. Nowhere does it say all 5 prayers are supposed to be at work.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)they can either stay home or find a job that already accommodates them. Keep this religious crap out of the workplace. It does nothing but alienate people.
Hekate
(90,633 posts)
Igel
(35,296 posts)For a while, courts ruled that their religion had to be accommodated. Sundown's early Friday? They get the time off--perhaps they make it up some other time. Perhaps not. If work requires that they show up on Saturday, albeit irregularly, oh, well--they don't have to show up.
This didn't last long. It can be a hardship.
I was one. I worked in a kitchen. When it was just one of us, not a problem. When two, because the church members had a good work ethic, it was manageable. At three, the manager started having scheduling problems during vacation times for non-sabbath-keepers or when the facility's use peaked and we needed a lot more than average staffing. That place solved the problem by shifting workers to other duties.
Some employers accommodate such, but that's at the employer's discretion. Nearly all that I've ever run into make a reasonable effort if you're honest and upfront with the issue and have decent references. But sometimes the job doesn't allow it. And sometimes the employee doesn't allow the boss to be reasonable--you approach a new boss (or an old one) with hostility, it pays to remember that "employee" and "employer" are not synonyms for "peers and equals."
madville
(7,408 posts)During the extra prayer times? Do they want to get off at 5 each day or 5:20? As long as they are clocked in and working for 8 or however many hours total, it shouldn't be that big a burden to the company.
If they are demanding extra paid breaks, I would side with the business.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,336 posts)... For people working on an assembly line, they have to be at their station or the line stops, idling many workers. The work rules should be clear when hiring.
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)Have them punch out. If they can stay late and make up the minutes, fine, but no reason the company should have to pay someone for that.
Kablooie
(18,625 posts)Operations have to pause so the doctors can pray?
Busses can stop so the driver can pray?
And how would it look if TSA agents stopped checking bags several times a day to put down a mat and kowtow?
It's ridiculous.
Workers have to choose jobs that fit with their beliefs.
They can't barge into a company and demand the company accommodate their beliefs.
If they feel they have to be accommodated they must let the employer know when apply for the job and the employer must be free not to hire them.
Religious beliefs are just beliefs. They aren't laws of nature.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)
Beacool
(30,247 posts)I worked at a Fortune 100 some time ago and had 11 people under my supervision. On one occasion we hired a young Hispanic man. On his first day at work he told me he needed an area that was private where he could lay down a small rug and pray. He had never mentioned needing special accommodations when I interviewed him, so I was a bit taken back because finding a private space was hard. Private spaces were designated offices and none were vacant. Conference rooms were always in use. That only left file rooms, also in use, and storage areas. The only place we could find that he could lock was a storage room where electronics, such as extra computers, were kept. That room had a lock and no one would disturb him. When we moved to another location, the company provided a lactating room where mothers could reserve time and go to pump their milk (before that designated room women had to do it in a bathroom stall). He was allowed to use that room to pray.
As for this article, it seems to me that the company tried to accommodate their needs and they took advantage.
