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Mon Jun 11, 2012, 12:40 PM

University of Sioux Falls president sues Delta Air Lines over gun-related charge

Source: Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal

The president of the University of Sioux Falls in South Dakota is suing Delta Air Lines Inc. after being arrested on a gun-related charge.

University President Mark Benedetto, who spent a night in jail, says Delta breached its duty by failing to inform him of New York City's restrictive gun laws, The Argus Leader reported.

Benedetto and his wife, Gail, flew Sept. 28 to New York to pick up a piece of Sept. 11 memorabilia for a display at the school, the Sioux Falls paper reports.

Benedetto’s lawsuit says that when he declared that he had an unloaded handgun in a locked case inside his checked luggage, as required by the Transportation Security Administration and Delta Airlines policy, a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested.



Read more: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2012/06/11/sd-university-president-sues-delta.html



Good luck collecting the first penny of that lawsuit....

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Reply University of Sioux Falls president sues Delta Air Lines over gun-related charge (Original post)
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 OP
slackmaster Jun 2012 #1
petronius Jun 2012 #2
Demit Jun 2012 #4
Ian David Jun 2012 #8
geardaddy Jun 2012 #12
Demit Jun 2012 #16
Ian David Jun 2012 #17
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #20
jeff47 Jun 2012 #58
boppers Jun 2012 #27
KamaAina Jun 2012 #3
freshwest Jun 2012 #52
KamaAina Jun 2012 #54
freshwest Jun 2012 #55
AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #5
onehandle Jun 2012 #6
guyton Jun 2012 #7
pitohui Jun 2012 #31
LanternWaste Jun 2012 #50
yellowcanine Jun 2012 #9
PavePusher Jun 2012 #23
boppers Jun 2012 #30
PavePusher Jun 2012 #34
boppers Jun 2012 #35
PavePusher Jun 2012 #38
boppers Jun 2012 #45
yellowcanine Jun 2012 #36
PavePusher Jun 2012 #39
yellowcanine Jun 2012 #40
PavePusher Jun 2012 #41
freshwest Jun 2012 #53
proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #10
MADem Jun 2012 #11
GodlessBiker Jun 2012 #13
askeptic Jun 2012 #15
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #18
boppers Jun 2012 #28
pitohui Jun 2012 #32
Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #37
Marrah_G Jun 2012 #44
GodlessBiker Jun 2012 #49
mrmpa Jun 2012 #14
24601 Jun 2012 #22
boppers Jun 2012 #29
24601 Jun 2012 #42
boppers Jun 2012 #46
24601 Jun 2012 #47
boppers Jun 2012 #48
24601 Jun 2012 #51
boppers Jun 2012 #56
24601 Jun 2012 #57
PavePusher Jun 2012 #24
StateApparatus Jun 2012 #19
PavePusher Jun 2012 #25
PavePusher Jun 2012 #26
pitohui Jun 2012 #33
baldguy Jun 2012 #21
Marrah_G Jun 2012 #43

Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 12:45 PM

1. Link to the federal law that New York City routinely violates as a matter of policy

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:00 PM

2. I'm not so sure: he was in NY from 9/28 - 10/2, so it's not a given that he

was just passing through in transit from one place to another where his possession would have been legal. And I think the suit itself is BS - I have no kind words for the gate agent, the airline had no duty to inform him of any particular laws in NY (especially pertaining to a firearm that the airline would have no reason to know he was carrying). And the agent may have been following specific instructions...

On edit: You're certainly correct about the bigger picture - NYC does require some corrective action wrt to that law.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:08 PM

4. If I'm reading your link correctly, it has to be lawful for him to carry in the place he's going to.

"from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm..."

NY law says you have to be a resident to lawfully carry there. I wonder how this suit will turn out. Delta could've done the decent thing & informed the guy beforehand. But you could argue the guy had a responsibility to have checked this out for himself.

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Response to Demit (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:40 PM

8. The dude at the counter is expected to know the gun laws of all 50 states?

It would be easier if the gun owner were responsible for knowing the gun laws in just two states-- the one he is in, and the one he is traveling to.

The guy behind his desk already needs to know the policy for his state, the TSA, and the airline. He calls ahead to the destination and calls local authorities so they can make sure the gun owner is in compliance with their law.

However, I would propose that if the gun owner is in compliance with his departure city, notifies the proper people, and is allowed to board the plane, then he has not broken any law. When his luggage arrives in New York, it should be both legal and required for the police to take custody of the fire arm, NOT the person. So long as the gun owner isn't allowed to receive their own luggage with the gun in it, they should not have been illegally carrying the weapon.

The cops should just hold it in a vault until he's ready to go home.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:09 PM

12. This ^

Claiming ignorance is a sure way to get arrested.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:14 PM

16. The dude at the counter knew enough to call the police in New York.

"a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested." I wonder why he did that.

And why so snotty a reply to me? I said the guy could have done his own homework.

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Response to Demit (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:18 PM

17. I didn't mean to be snotty to you.

I assumed that when a customer checks a gun in his luggage, it must be standard procedure to notify people on the other end to make sure that the responsible gun owner is actually being responsible and following the laws of the state they are traveling to.

I could be wrong about that.

But if I am, it's not mentioned anywhere that I've seen.

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Response to Demit (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:54 PM

20. I think he's required to do so by law

to report guns checked in as baggage to the port police, regardless if the ticket agent thinks it's 100 percent OK or not...

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Response to Demit (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 15, 2012, 01:10 AM

58. Yes, the dude at the counter in NY knew NY law.

And the dude at the IA counter knew IA law.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:06 AM

27. When somebody announces, and demonstrates, intent to commit a crime, you don't have to wait.

It's his fault he was too ignorant to know he was committing a crime.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:06 PM

3. A university president packing heat?

Does he sew spare ammo into his leather elbow patches??

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:47 PM

52. And never heard about how restrictive NYC's gun laws are? Where did he get his degrees?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #52)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:02 PM

54. Here's my guess

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #54)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:17 PM

55. LOL! Good one, thanks.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:09 PM

5. Isn't it common knowledge that NY has restrictive gun laws?

 

Would an attorney for a University President truly believe that Delta Airlines would have superior knowledge to that of the University President?

The "duty to warn" concept, although valid for some purposes, is the common basis for frivolous lawsuits which are filed to obtain undeserved settlements.

A way to stop frivolous lawsuits is to stand up to those who bring them.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:11 PM

6. Tough shit. Welcome to civilization. nt

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:13 PM

7. three problems ...

There are at least three problems here ...

1) NY's stupid laws

2) Delta's policy

but most of all:

3) the routine abuse of people arrested.

From the article:

The lawsuit claims Bendetto was subjected to physical, emotional and verbal abuse while incarcerated, that he feared for his safety and that his shoulder was injured when an officer double handcuffed him.

An arrest for some minor violation shouldn't subject you to physical & mental abuse, let alone the strip-searches and total lack of dignity and respect that our police-state appears to have embraced.

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Response to guyton (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:52 AM

31. it shouldn't but it does esp. for a serious gun crime

the guy tried to smuggle a gun into the state most famous for prosecuting people for having a gun

they put a guy in prison for shooting himself in his own ass, c'mon, it is not secret info that you can't bring your gun to nyc

you just can't, that's it, that's not the policy of delta airlines, that's ny for you

i feel for the guy, i do, but if you need your gun, you need to route your trip through atl or iah or something like that

not nyc that's just stupid ass

i should edit this to reflect you're right, it's sickening that they torture people who are under arrest, and it gets me upset too, this was an arrest, the dude wasn't even convicted of anything, and they still treat him like dirt, but i've about given up saying anything about prisoner rights, because it seems like you just can't raise awareness that prisoners should still be treated decently...unfortunately, this lawsuit will focus on unrelated crap like whether delta should have told him blah blah instead of the issue of abuse, because you can't normally sue jails/police officers

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Response to guyton (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:26 PM

50. Make that four problems-- the dumb-butt didn't know the law. The rest is window dressing.

"three problems ..."

Make that four problems-- the dumb-butt didn't know the law. The rest is window dressing.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:46 PM

9. Meh. If you want to carry a gun you need to know the relevant laws yourself - not depend on someone

else to tell you. Personal responsibility, anyone?

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:00 AM

23. Or....

 

States could simply abide by the Constitution. Much simpler for everyone that way.

Naw.... to easy.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:17 AM

30. They do.

If he had bothered to legally register his weapon in NYC, he wouldn't be a criminal now.

Hopefully the system works, and if he *had* any kind of carry permit, it will now be revoked, as the perp has demonstrated a willful disregard of the law.

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Response to boppers (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 02:21 AM

34. May I see your registrations for all your books and papers?

 

May I see your First Amendment Permit?

May I see your Thirteenth Amendment licence from a government agency?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 02:38 AM

35. I do not have a license to produce my more dangerous papers.

So, I choose not to. Nitrocellulose can be tricky. Thankfully, I have many other kinds of paper that *aren't* dangerous enough that they usually require a state license to create/store/handle.

(Yes, paper is legally regulated, likely in all 50 states, based on it's potential dangers).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

My first amendment permit is in my wallet. However, it does not allow me to make, and transport, explosive devices and other weapons to wherever I want.

Like paper. Or guns.

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Response to boppers (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:12 PM

38. Nice dodge.

 

Feel free to actually address what I said.



http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #38)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:20 PM

45. I did. You seem to be of the opinion that the Bill of rights precludes sane regulations.

I pointed out why some regulations were sane, even when tossed something silly about "legal papers".

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:44 AM

36. Constitution doesn't say anything about regulation of speech etc.

But it does say "well regulated militia." Sorry that is part of the 2nd amendment also. The NRA likes to leave off that part.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:15 PM

39. And you seem to have ignored....

 

"...the right of the people..."

What do you think that means?

Can you cite to a "right of the militia"?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:25 PM

40. Seems quite clear the two are linked. Militias are made up of people.

If they aren't linked, why put them in the same sentence? And why does the NRA often ignore the reference to a well regulated militia when they quote the 2nd Amendment?

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:29 PM

41. Diagram the entire sentence and tell us who the right belongs to. n/t

 

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:50 PM

53. And expecting everyone else to indulge his alternate reality, as well. Also, Meh to him.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:53 PM

10. Am I the only one wondering why he was taking a gun with him?

I don't buy his story, since the ban on guns in NYC has been well publicized.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:06 PM

11. Should Delta tell him where to go for dinner while he's in town, too?

And warn him about Bloomberg's smoking ordinances?

I call bullshit. Why wouldn't Delta assume the guy, bringing a gun with him, is appropriately licensed in the state he's visiting? The action by the gate agent was likely SOP if it even happened. Delta has no "duty" to babysit his whining ass or warn him that he needs this paperwork or that. He should have done his own due diligence, then he'd have no problems.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:25 PM

13. When I rent a car, does Avis have to warn me that there is no right turn on red in NYC?

Or am I charged with knowing the traffic laws where I am driving?

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Response to GodlessBiker (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:02 PM

15. No - After 2nd Amend Supreme Court decision - NY law is problem -

And you shouldn't be in catch-22. When supreme court decides Constitutional issue, law should be same everywhere - just like on every other amendment

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Response to askeptic (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:45 PM

18. Doesn't that mean he should be suing the State of New York and not Delta Air Lines?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:08 AM

28. Delta's closer to running a profit, I think.

Which is what these lawsuits tend to be about.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:55 AM

32. you can't sue a state for being arrested

teevee is to blame for this, people apparently think you can sue police etc. for false arrest

most of the time, no, you can't

he can't sue nyc no matter how stupid ass their law is so he's suing delta even tho they really aren't to blame here, he's just in pain and doesn't know where to put it

personally if i were him, i'd just blow it off, at least he only got an overnight stay...that's pretty minor for a gun crime in new york

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Response to pitohui (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:07 AM

37. I meant sue to have the law overturned...

Yeah, no way can he sue for the actual arrest...

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Response to GodlessBiker (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:55 PM

44. When my former housemate was getting his CCW I took the gun safety course with him

I remember them being VERY clear about NY laws and warning us not to travel through the state even with a legal MA ccw. Somehow we are supposed to believe a college president did not know this?

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #44)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:27 PM

49. As they say, most often, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:35 PM

14. I just want to know why......

a University President needs to carry a gun..Just asking.

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Response to mrmpa (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:13 PM

22. Need isn't a criteria for constitutional rights. Why does he need to to speak as he wants or

worship or assemble peacefully as he sees fit?

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Response to 24601 (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:14 AM

29. So, he should be able to set up a church.... in baggage claim?

Assemble a group of political supporters at his landing gate?

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Response to boppers (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:48 PM

42. Can he speak and/or pray in baggage claim? Issue settled.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #42)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:24 PM

46. Not if it's upsetting other people.

Rights are not absolutes, they are not guarantees to use as a trump card to evade all other laws.

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Response to boppers (Reply #46)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:22 AM

47. So if he carries concealed, others don't know and aren't upset - problem solved.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #47)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:30 AM

48. If he does so on his own property, sure.

Carrying concealed doesn't mean you get to claim the world as your property, to act as you want, no matter where you are. Do it at your home, fine, at an airport, no.

Not surprisingly, this fine point is often lost on people who carry weapons, be they Somali warlords, or terrified suburbanites.

This fine point is *also* often lost on people who carry bibles, as their "spiritual weapon" as well, and preach and otherwise assault those around them.

The common factor is a lack of respect for respect, for the rules, and boundaries, of others.

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Response to boppers (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:44 PM

51. Of course in this case, the weapon was unloaded and in a locked container. Not a clear and

present danger. NY just hasn't caught up with the US Constitution yet. A few appeals may remedy this.

Nor is it a violation for anyone to carry and read a Bible, Koran, Torah or even Evolution of the Species in public places. Speak to someone about the content and your 1st Amendment freedom of speech applies.

But instead hit them over the head with it and it's no longer speech but would constitute criminal battery.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bloomberg moves to ban the above books (except Darwin) after he rounds up the soft drink "would be" criminals. He tends to demonstrate that his views need to be imposed on the rest of us.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #51)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:29 PM

56. If the weapon was going to remain locked up and unloaded, why did he take it at all?

If the drink thing offends you so much, buy two drinks.

YOUR LIBERTY IS AT STAKE! GET TWO DRINKS!

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Response to boppers (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:31 PM

57. It was unloaded and locked - and declared to the airlines - as required for shipment. Did you read

the original article?

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Response to mrmpa (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:01 AM

24. Why does he need to speak freely? n/t

 

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:52 PM

19. Surprise!

You're not in the wild west anymore, Cletus! Here in America, we Yanks think it's a bad idea for people to be wandering around with guns. I'm not sure where you got the idea it was the airline's responsibility to coddle your need to compensate with a loaded pistol, unless it has to do with the amount of cash they might be willing to settle with. That being said, if you break the law in New York, you will be treated like a criminal. Yes, I'm sure on the frontier you're used to reserving that sort of treatment for blacks and Mexicans, but your ethnicity and burning urge to stand your ground don't carry *quite* as much weight in the civilized world.

Sucks to be You,

The Union

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Response to StateApparatus (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:03 AM

25. Your knowledge of history seems to be...

 

Teh Fail.

But it was mildly amusing. Please try again.

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Response to StateApparatus (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:05 AM

26. P.S. NY is not all of the North-East.

 

Arguably, it's not really even the most important part.

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Response to StateApparatus (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:57 AM

33. the gun was not loaded

the guy was an idiot, and all the world knows you don't bring guns to new york, but let's not pretend the gun was loaded or there was any danger to anyone

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:10 PM

21. "I'm an idiot ... AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!"

Typical RW gun nut mentality.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:52 PM

43. Delta was following NY state laws.

This is one of the big problems with gun ownership in this country. Every state has different laws, some states honor other states laws, some don't. It would be better to have uniform regulations.

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