Why young people are right about Hillary Clinton

[DebbieCDC]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by NH Ethylene (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Rolling Stone

By Matt Taibi in response to RS' endorsement of HRC

Sorry I'm on my cell phone & can't copy

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325

[Locrian]

1. indeed

I doubt even Hillary Clinton could answer that question. She has been playing the inside game for so long, she seems to have become lost in it. She behaves like a person who often doesn't know what the truth is, but instead merely reaches for what is the best answer in that moment, not realizing the difference.

This is why her shifting explanations and flippant attitude about the email scandal are almost more unnerving than the ostensible offense. She seems confident that just because her detractors are politically motivated, as they always have been, that they must be wrong, as they often were.

But that's faulty thinking. My worry is that Democrats like Hillary have been saying, "The Republicans are worse!" for so long that they've begun to believe it excuses everything. It makes me nervous to see Hillary supporters like law professor Stephen Vladeck arguing in the New York Times that the real problem wasn't anything Hillary did, but that the Espionage Act isn't "practical."

[MisterP]

11. right, we've ended up with two parties of Nothing--the GOP is openly nihilist

and uses the consequences of neoliberalism to get people to angrily vote for more neoliberalism, the Dems are the ones shouting "send them BACK!" "kick their ASS and take their GAS!" "drill HERE drill NOW!"

[Metric System]

2. *White young people, which even the author acknowledges:

"He has done less well with young African-American voters, but even there he's seen some gains as time has gone on."

[HumanityExperiment]

3. HRC is a brand...

since she's a brand others unknowing accept her without much vetting since so much time has passed someone else had to have vetted her in their minds...

better informed folks know better and that's the point "but even there he's seen some gains as time has gone on"

this is why HRC supporters as so desperate with these OPs trying to force Bernie out of primary race

[Metric System]

7. Wow, feel the condescension. "Better informed folks know better..."

[TheSarcastinator]

13. wow. talk about cognitive dissonance

Condescension? You know, there is a special place in hell for people who don't "get" irony.

[chapdrum]

40. "Condescension" is not the point.

One is either comfortable with the repugnant things that HRC represents, or is not.

[HumanityExperiment]

16. knowledge and being informed...

those two aspects would make one that's not knowledgeable and informed feel that way

[Metric System]

17. If you say so.

[HumanityExperiment]

19. Observational evidence...

no need to 'say so' when it is so, observational evidence supports my point

[monicaangela]

105. Some people suffer from

Willful blindness (sometimes called ignorance of law, willful ignorance or contrived ignorance or Nelsonian knowledge) is a term used in law to describe a situation in which a person seeks to avoid civil or criminal liability for a wrongful act by intentionally keeping himself or herself unaware of facts that would render him or her liable.

It happens a lot in life. People decide what they want and then shut out any new information. This happens a lot with parents and children. Honestly, sometimes people have closed off their minds to all of the facts and are determined to be lead by the facts they enjoy, you know the ones that support their ideology.

[runaway hero]

29. I'm sure

There are many black people supporting bernie. Including young blacks. Do they not count?

[MidwestTech]

42. not in arizona

[runaway hero]

73. that's one state

[MidwestTech]

75. I think you missed the point

[runaway hero]

94. Are you trying to imply no black people support Bernie

Because that's wildly inaccurate. And on top of that, not all blacks agree on everything.

[Atmosk]

107. He was making a joke

Because they didn't allow people to vote in the Arizona primary

[runaway hero]

127. oh

I'm sorry. Didn't get it.

[MellowDem]

57. White AND Hispanic young people..

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/where-sanders-and-clinton-are-dominating

And he does better among young black voters than older black voters, and I think the piece shows some good reason why he's doing better than his average among all racial groups among younger people.

And everything the piece mentions about Clinton is spot on IMHO.

[passiveporcupine]

89. Yes, all younger people are tending to lean toward Bernie, no matter their race.

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

And to one degree or another, the modern Democratic Party, often including Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues.

[Zorro]

4. Not LBN

[DavidDvorkin]

8. Definitely not.

[Omaha Steve]

78. Would you care to guess who had the most locked stories in LBN and what the subject was?

[DavidDvorkin]

92. I can't guess, but I'd love to know

And I'd also like to know why the OP hasn't been locked for not being LBN.

[Omaha Steve]

93. As far as a lock it takes a consensous of the hosts at any given time

On a Friday afternoon-evening (depending on the time zone) there may not be enough hosts to lock any given post ASAP. It is the way the system works.

OS

[DavidDvorkin]

96. Ah, okay.

[Electric Monk]

5. summary:

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

And to one degree or another, the modern Democratic Party, often including Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues.

[Jenny_92808]

54. The comic in your sig line says a lot

and I agree with your sentiments!

[Fast Walker 52]

6. really good piece

good analysis of the modern Dems, imo

[DebbieCDC]

14. Yes I thought so as well

I would expect nothing less from Matt

[SunSeeker]

26. You're right about one thing: this is ANALYSIS, not LBN.

Divisive posts like it's should not be on the front page masquerading as LBN. It belongs in GDP or the Bernie Group.

[Electric Monk]

9. I cross-posted this in Good Reads. Please continue there if/when this gets locked in LBN.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016148935

[jpb33]

10. This Line Describes

This line describes Hillary supporters to a T. Actually it is there reasoning for Hillary's candidacy. Her candidacy has no solutions, just the following rationale.


"My worry is that Democrats like Hillary have been saying, "The Republicans are worse!" for so long that they've begun to believe it excuses everything."

[Maedhros]

126. Taibbi and I are on the same page.

At this point, anyone who posts a variant of "the Republicans are worse" goes immediately to my ignore list. It's lazy thinking, doesn't solve problems, and creates a culture of acquiescence and impotence.

[Sky Masterson]

12. This!

Young people don't see the Sanders-Clinton race as a choice between idealism and incremental progress. The choice they see is between an honest politician, and one who is so profoundly a part of the problem that she can't even see it anymore.

They've seen in the last decades that politicians who promise they can deliver change while also taking the money, mostly just end up taking the money.

And they're voting for Sanders because his idea of an entirely voter-funded electoral "revolution" that bars corporate money is, no matter what its objective chances of success, the only practical road left to break what they perceive to be an inexorable pattern of corruption.

Young people aren't dreaming. They're thinking. And we should listen to them.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325#ixzz43wp8eaEp
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[polichick]

51. That's the section I was going to post, so I'll just say AMEN!

[Loki]

15. What a broad brush you paint with Mr. Taibi.

They just want the grandpa they never had who gives them everything they want, only to find out later, that it really wasn't that good in the first place.

[jpb33]

21. If

you lived in 1932 you would of voted for Hoover and said the exact same lines. No we can't!

[Loki]

23. Hoover???

Really??? My god you had to reach for that one.

[jpb33]

30. Actually

it just took a little bit of knowledge about US history.

[Thespian2]

100. Good Response!

[Hoppy]

32. --- give me a fucking break.

I'd take the "grandpa" over the Wicked Witch of the Beltway --- if we're gonna use metaphors.

[jillan]

64. Thank you for saying it better than I would've.

[Hoppy]

65. Aw, shucks. T'wern't nuthin'.

[-none]

76. Good comeback! LOL

[passiveporcupine]

98. As Taibi says

They've seen in the last decades that politicians who promise they can deliver change while also taking the money, mostly just end up taking the money.

And boy how she has taken the money.

[Loki]

119. You don't like grandpa?

Deal with it.

[Cassiopeia]

97. That is the same exact line the extremist Republicans on my FB feed use.

The exact same bullshit, Bernie supporters just want free stuff.

[Loki]

120. Didn't say "free" you did.

[Pat Riots]

109. wow Loki that is some real insightful analysis

you really have a finger on the pulse of the youth. right on!

Surely Hillary is going to spend tax money on something, were she to win?

Free stuff, etc.

Like drone missles, and replacing every lead pipe in the nation. it is all free, right?

or it all is not free, if you look at it another way.

But Bernie's programs arent "free" anymore than our military or any other investment the government makes.

As a Hillary supporter you of course know all this, plus math, and are just being caustic and insulting.
oh well, most of the time when people are winning they dont act so insecure.

hmmmmm.

[Loki]

121. I have 4 kids

I think I have a pretty good pulse on young people and millennials since that's what two of mine are. One is for BS one is not, the other two are Democratic women who are voting for Hillary. We are a multi political family and we get along just fine.

[Pat Riots]

124. i take it you use a less sneering tone with your kids

than you do with the age group at large?

[mountain grammy]

18. The best from the best.. Taibbi gets it.

As a mock-Hillary in a 2007 Saturday Night Live episode put it, "Democrats know me…. They know my support for the Iraq War has always been insincere."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325#ixzz43wosLbMy
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[Thinkingabout]

20. As I read the article about crime and incarnation I remembered that there was

A crime bill passed by Congress and signed into law by Bill Clinton and Sanders voted for this bill. I also thought about the financial crisis and I know the CFMA was also passed by Congress, signed into law by Bill Clinton and again the vote to pass the bill included Bernie Sanders, this bill had lots to do with the financial crisis. I do not know why these votes by Sanders are not revisited by Sanders as much as he revisits Hillary's vote on IWR. The fact there are more Americans dying from gun violence in the USA and many are young people and we don't revisit the five times Sanders voted against the Brady Bill. How many more young people have to die from gun violence before some one takes a stand against gun violence?

[Loki]

25. They care more about the potentials than the actuals, like saving lives.

If you gave them a choice between saving a child from a possible murder by their abductor, they choose to not "potentially infringe on the rights of someone who "might" be innocent. That's what the courts do, they decide innocence or guilt. The Amber Alert Bill that Bernie voted against is the perfect example of that. The child loses.

[Thinkingabout]

28. Did not even add the Amber alert, I was thinking about young people

In the streets of Chicago for one place, the drive by shootings, but you are right to talk about the Amber alerts also. It took a while but Elizabeth Smart was finally recognized.

[jpb33]

33. Wow

you had to really reach for that one. Now Bernie is in favor of child murder. It did not take long for Hillary supporters to go there, but I am not surprised. First, Bernie was a racist now he is pro-baby murder.

[Loki]

35. Do you know what the Ignore Fairy does?

[jpb33]

41. What

What are u like 14 years old.

"Do you know what the Ignore Fairy does?"

[Thinkingabout]

58. Not familiar with it.

[runaway hero]

31. I don't think it's fair

That people bang on Hillary for the crime bill but Bernie gets a pass on guns. He needs to do better on guns. Too bad more people don't know about his position.

[jpb33]

38. Bernie's

position on guns is perfectly understandable since he comes from a rural state. To tag him as some sort of gun lover is just a plain lie. However, this is the best that Hillary supporters can come up with then it is pretty sad.

[Thinkingabout]

50. I come from a rural state, most states have rural areas, that story does not pass.

BTW, I have had the same position well before Hillary was running, in fact when Sanders was voting five times against the Brady Bill I was for sensible gun bills.

[runaway hero]

70. Yes but

given how many minorities, especially women, are hurt with guns, he's needs to refine a bit better.

[Thinkingabout]

46. Strange isn't it.

[runaway hero]

71. Women are held to a different standard

Hillary has to do things even trump doesn't to get people onside sometimes.

[underpants]

22. Love Taibbi

[jalan48]

24. What's not to like about Wall Street's candidate? Young people these days.....

[chapdrum]

45. There you go!

[astrophuss42]

27. I'm so glad Matt came out with this. eom

[Trust Buster]

34. Young people were brought up thinking they deserve a participation medal just for showing up.

Sanders has convinced them that they can have it all without earning it. I had to work 8 hours a day in a grocery store for 6 years just to hop in my car at rush hour and drive an hour to school to earn my undergraduate degree. This generation thinks that it should just be handed to them while some other sugar daddy pays for it. Long after Grandpa Bernie us gone, these kids will be in for a very rude awakening.

[jpb33]

36. What a

bunch of bullshit. All they want is a fair shot. I am sick of people who are so jealous and envious. Instead of saying my generation should of not had it so unfair and I hope future generations get a fairer shake people say this bullshit. Envious, jealous bullshit.

The more HRC supporters talk the more and more they sound like Ronald Reagan and the republican rabble.

Divide and conquer.

All the people are asking for is healthcare and an education, both of which should not send a person into debt for the remainder of their lives. To you that translates into freebees. That is just plain insanity.

[JonLeibowitz]

37. Oh Bullshit. It is like I am reading Free Republic!

I am a 24 year old Sanders supporter who worked part time through college along with studying full time to earn my undergraduate degree with highest honors. Was this all given to me? Oh and I have no college debt so Sanders' plan wouldn't even help me personally but I recognize it as necessary for our generation. Previous generations had affordable education for the jobs they needed for a middle class life. That is no longer the case.

You also missed all the other reasons young people are overwhelmingly supporting Sanders, like wall street corruption, campaign finance (inextricably linked to financial regulation) and the environment.

Your entire post is bullshit.

[Trust Buster]

44. I've read two Taibi books and like his Wall Street investigations.

That said, I think he's in over his head when professing to understand the youth vote. By nature, kids only see what's directly in front if them. Not only have they not read one of Taibi's books on Wall Street but they couldn't even pick Iraq out on an unlabeled map.

What these kids do see is college debt. Free college would be a disaster. Kids would rush off to college and treat it as an extension of high school. The universities would take the flood of government money and build campus palaces thereby skyrocketing the cost of tuition to insane levels. The President and Warren offer realistic plans. The President proposes two years of free community college as a launching pad to a four year university to some and a high tech manufacturing education to others. Warren proposes to reduce college financing interest rates to the level at which the government can borrow. Those ARE realistic goals. Free college is not.

[JonLeibowitz]

53. Broad-brushing all kids as not knowing basic geography? Classy.

Interesting posts in this thread, though you might find more kindred spirits over at freeperville.

[stupidicus]

59. apparently the poor thing skipped the logic/etc classes

methinks it can speak for their own kids, and did

[Trust Buster]

61. Ah, total deflection. You refuse to respond to my post other than to challenge student's

knowledge of geography. The President and Warren offers realistic goals on education. Hillary supports their proposals. Sanders is proposing free college knowing it won't see the light of day in Congress. But, keep believing the politically impossible if it makes you feel good. It's a pure numbers game, you know, math.

[Pat Riots]

117. no Sanders is shifting the terms of debate

and that makes it possible to eventually get single payer, a thing that somehow a lot of other countries have managed to do. it may not be possible for a few election cycles, which is EXACTLY what Sanders is saying when he talks about political revolution.

this is how a lot of social progress has been made. and stage one always involves "smart" persons saying it is impossible.

you just wait and see. the genie is out of the bottle and it will happen. it is a matter of hard work and time,and stubborness in the face of setback.

[Lodestar]

86. I'm no spring chicken and have seen a lot re: politics. Feelin' the Bern!!!

The pendulum has swung far too much to the right and needs a BIG
CORRECTION, a shock to the system, not incremental baby steps.
Government itself needs an overhaul and you can't
build something meaningful or new on rotten foundations.
The emperor has got no clothes and it ain't a pretty sight.
Give me authenticity any day.
Thank GOD for young people!!!

[Trust Buster]

91. Great, glad to hear it. Now, if you could only point me to where the votes are going to come

from in a Congress that has obstructed the President's less ambitious economic program for the last 7 years, I'd be mighty appreciative ?

[jpb33]

39. Yeah

bcuz they don't know anything about real life unlike yourself. Lord, you sound like a very bitter person.

[Trust Buster]

48. I'm a wise person. I know what's politically possible and what's not. Spare me your insults.

[stupidicus]

55. hilarious, ain't he

typical 3rdwayer/HC supporter

knows more than the well known author of this piece, but is left here on DU spewing nonsense

[Trust Buster]

63. Then please oh wise one, tell me where the votes are going to come from in Congress ?

[stupidicus]

66. meaningless garbage having nothing to do with your hateful, meanspirited denunciation of youth

in this country

[Trust Buster]

74. I was 20 once myself. I wasn't fully apprised myself at that age. Psst.....It's called life.

Taibi didn't address the main issue. Where will the votes come from in Congress to pass Sanders' proposals. You see, dreaming isn't enough.

[stupidicus]

79. equally meaningless garbage

that serves only as a self-indictment, and nothing more.

If everyone past and present listened to you, the slaves would still be enslaved, women wouldn't be voting, and the black lives matter movement woulda evaporated already

Just because you lack the intellectual heft or integrity -- in your youth and obviously now too -- of most young people that understand BS is talking about goals and pursuits of them as opposed to claims of being able to fully realize them upon his election, doesn't mean that they are suffering under any delusions/illusions.

And what's most pathetic about your non-argument is the idea that righties are gonna allow your precious HC to pass anything like a two year, etc, plan that would start the trail blazing towards a free four year program like other countries already have.

[Trust Buster]

83. The pressing issue in this election is the Supreme Court and not a 74 year old guy promising

that which he knows he can't deliver. The youth could learn a good lesson from the Tea Party. They started a grass roots effort to get their politicians elected at the state level and the congressional level before they put forward a leader. To forward a 74 year old leader first and build a grass roots effort to elect politicians at lower levels later is totally backwards. Those with experience with our political process understand that. The youth ? They traditionally don't look that far ahead.

[stupidicus]

103. thanks for conceding that neither BS nor his supporters have an expectation of "freebies"

in the near term, but in the latter case, merely an expectation of his championing the free college cause, and that your full of it to claim otherwise.

Only a rightwing HC supporter would propose that our youth learn a lesson from the Tea Partiers, and lie about the "grassroots" origin of it in the process. And beyond the dishonesty of that is the plain ______ of it. Gee, who came first, JC or the xtians, and the same could be said of what Gandhi and MLK -- sometimes it's the leadership that provides the spark/catalyst for change before the followers amass, and that's exactly what is going on with Bernie as evidenced by the attendance figures for every speech he gives.

Anything and everything not a rightwing giveaway proposed and pursued by your precious HC will be dealt with by the same obstructionism, and I wish I could say it's mindboggling to me that you seem to be blissfully unaware that anything she proposes, given those conditions, is just as "unrealistic" as what BS is proposing.

It's not mind-boggling, it's simply what passes for an "argument" from HC supporters these days.

[Pat Riots]

123. another example

we are approaching the 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising in Ireland.

it was doomed from the start, lasted one week, and the majority opinion in Ireland was hostile to it at the time. plus it was impossible to defeat an empire with a small number of soldiers, no matter how passionate the idealists were. the leaders were exectuted by the British, and that was that.except that the executions invoked a feeling of sympathy among much of the same Irish who initially opposed the rising.

about 5 years later, the British government began negotiations with the the surviving leadership of the Easter Rising on limited self determination for 26 counties of Ireland. within the same generation Ireland became a nation.

yes, leaders do sometimes have to lead before people will follow. and yes, change is possible even when it seems impossible. it just isnt easy.

one could also mention John Brown and slavery too.

[stupidicus]

135. and a good one it is

they spew the same BS over single-payer as well like we'll ever arrive at that destination without the travel and those willing to make the trip.

Low expectations are a product of the fear of rightwingnuttery, and both are a part of the good cop/bad cop game they've been playing for decades now

[stupidicus]

62. my my, whatta pathetic dodge

and you probably think you rebutted everything he wrote, no?

[sulphurdunn]

67. Anyone who thinks young people have it easy these days

either doesn't know many of them or is out of touch with reality. When I graduated from high school in 1967 everyone either got a job or went to college. I got a good enough job at 18 to afford a car and my own place. I lived independently. One bread winner could support an entire family then. The Vietnam War fucked that up and things have gone down hill for kids and everyone else ever since. After the war I went to college. I walked away after 4 years debt free. Now, lots of kids with college degrees owe thousands of dollars and work for minimum wages at jobs they take from kids with only high school diplomas. Those who didn't graduate get a permanent ticket to the underclass. I wouldn't want to be a young person today.

[passiveporcupine]

108. College tuition used to be free.

It's only since it's become so unafordable that kids are leaving college with a degree that doesn't often help them get a job, and a debt that will cripple them for the first third to half of their working adult life, that we have been slipping behind other countries on education. Part of the education cost is also affecting medical cost and dental cost, as students there come out of school with such enormous college debt, they have to charge a lot more for services than they should.

Your anecdote of having to earn your way through college cannot compare to what young kids facing college today have to deal with.

I too worked a full time job and went to school nights (part time) so I wouldn't leave school loaded in debt. And that was at a time when tuition was almost free and total costs were very low (in the 80's). That is no longer possible with today's college prices.

[Meteor Man]

128. Care for some cheese with your wine?

We had the world and a fantastic economic boom handed to us on a silver platter. Strong unions and good paying jobs were everywhere. Well, in bourgie white college towns anyway.
We had Steve Jobs, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope. Kids today have no jobs, no cash and no hope. (Unless Bernie wins)
Did you have to walk uphill to school both ways as well?
Face facts. Our generation has completely trashed the global ecology and the global economy. We are passing the torch of neverending war to a generation that deserves better.

[AgerolanAmerican]

130. Tell me about it!

I had to walk uphill to school 532 miles EACH way through five feet of snowy crocodile-infested swamp! Kids these days!

Also, get off my lawn.

[killbotfactory]

43. I will never forgive politicians responsible for the Iraq war. nt

[chapdrum]

47. Same here.

Never.

Yes, including Democrats.

Like HRC.

[Loki]

122. Will you forgive the ones who supported it financially?

Mr. Sander's did. Look it up.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/27/bernie-sanders-savior-or-seducer-of-the-anti-war-left/

[Pat Riots]

125. we all supported financially

or did you not pay taxes?

[highprincipleswork]

49. I like this. And this whole Bernie Sanders only appeals to Whites thing is nonsense. In fact...

if it's true, it's nonsense.

[polichick]

52. Matt gets it. K&R

[Rebkeh]

56. He's spot on

The Democratic Party is long overdue for an update. I have faith in the young people today, they've got it right. We should listen to them.

[stupidicus]

60. my son isn't that "young" anymore

but he's had them pegged for quite a while now

[chapdrum]

68. Agree w/Matt, but this is probably what

will happen.

"...But it would be a shame if we disqualified every honest politician, or forever disavowed the judgment of young people, just because George McGovern lost an election four decades ago."

We get an honest politician, when? NOT very often. Which seems to be the way we like it, in some perhaps unconscious way.

The country is not liberal. It has (in my lifetime) NEVER been liberal.

Let alone (shudder) progressive.

If Sanders is not elected, it will be over for anyone not of or closely aligned with, the vaunted One Percent.

[pnwmom]

72. Not just lost an election -- McGovern lost by 49 states.

And Mondale, years later, also lost by 49 states.

Bill Clinton pulled this party out of the desert. Young people who have grown up with Obama as President have no idea how bad it was.

[Skwmom]

84. Wow. I guess it doesn't matter what the elected Democrat does as long as they are elected.

The country can't take any more Clinton destruction (e.g., financial deregulation, NAFTA, etc.).

[pnwmom]

87. Clinton brought the economy back to life after the Rethugs almost buried it.

Then Obama had to do the same thing.

[chapdrum]

88. Thanks for the reminder-

Probably like others here, I worked on the McGovern campaign, and will (sigh) never forget losing all but one state.

It would be useful if the Democratic leadership would, once and for f*cking all, pay attention to what people like Sanders are saying, instead of always following the ludicrous examples of "governance" provided by the Republicans, AND THEN asking Democratic voters to play nice, and get along with those "across the aisle."

Right, like those who threaten to (and actually) shut down the govt. when they don't get their way (like the overgrown children they remain).

With Democrats like Schultz, Emanuel, Obama, both Clintons, ad nauseum, all that we are EVER going to get is Republican-lite administrations.

You may be happy with that. Some of us are not.

[stupidicus]

81. sure it is

https://www.google.com/search?q=myth+of+a+center+right&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[pnwmom]

69. Taibi is a self-professed libertarian, so no progressive should take him seriously on this issue.

http://reason.com/archives/2007/11/09/an-interview-with-matt-taibbi

[DKM]

77. The problem with Matt

I'm a high school teacher and I live in a college town (College Park Md). Matt's central argument is that th youth vote can swing the election for Bernie. I know from practical experience this is not true. I have taught high school age students, seniors and some juniors are 18. I talk to college students. Let me use one specific issue as an example.

I think the 21 year old drinking age is a travesty and a joke. 18-20 year olds do not obey this law, they disregard the law in overwhelming numbers, and there is a huge industry of fake ID's that these young people enthusiastically patronize. If 18-20 year olds voted, the idea of raising the drinking age would never have gotten past "go" back in 1984. If 18-20 year olds pushed the issue and voted, the social discrimination would end. Now you can argue that the drinking age is not as important as reproductive rights or college tuition, and you're right. But it is an issue that daily hits a lot more 18-20 year olds than almost any other. And it wasn't and isn't enough to get them to mobilize.

My point is as much as I appreciate Bernie and love what he says, young people are not going to actually vote for him, and they are definitely not going to hit Capitol Hill or day to day engage politicians on these issues. If they are going to deal with the flagrant discrimination of the drinking age by finding alternative means to get into bars. They are going to find alternative means to deal with other issues rather than take the time to hit the issues head on, which is the fundamental assumption of Bernie.

To give this a historical perspective, in 1859 John Brown thought hundreds of thousands of people would swarm to Harper's Ferry and help him arm the slaves. For far more sinister reasons, Timothy McVeigh thought blowing up a federal building would set off a revolution. Dylann Roof thought shooting in a church would set off a race war. Ammon Bundy thought hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of supporters would flock to Oregon. Even though Bernie's goals are far more beneficial and good, the assumption of widely mobilized popular support is not supported by history. For these two reasons; young people's political apathy and Bernie's assumption, I'm afraid I have to side with Jann and go with Hillary.

[DebbieCDC]

80. So you support a candidate

because you assume one or another demographic won't vote? That's a pretty poor reason to vote for someone IMO.

[Doctor_J]

85. The Hillarians are gleeful that 10 million or so young people won't be joining the party

And, if Hillary somehow squeaks through the GE because of the Republican incompetence, her coattails will be non-existent, so the far right will still have huge majorities, and get their agenda - most of which Mrs. Clinton agrees with any - through. And of course 2018 will be another bloodbath.

[Skwmom]

82. Amazing how giving crumbs to the American people is repackaged as incrementalism.

[DebbieCDC]

90. It's like the "settlers" in the Direct TV commercial

The party wants/needs the progressives to "settle" for the crumbs the DNC deigns to feed them.

[Darb]

95. Why young people handed us a Repugnant House and Senate.....

not to mention dozens of state houses. Thanks for not voting you know it all dumbasses. Now threaten to not vote again, you bunch of nitwits.

[basselope]

99. They don't vote because they have nothing to vote for.

I know I'm not voting for Clinton and I am not a "young person".

[Darb]

101. Good for you and

I don't give a fuck.

[basselope]

102. Obviously, you do.

In fact your post screaming about young people not voting for corporate shill candidates pretty much shows exactly how much of a fuck you actually give.

However, if you channeled that energy into supporting decent candidates, you wouldn't run into this problem.

[Darb]

104. No, trust me, your vote means

pretty much jack shit in the whole scheme of things. So go on a tirade about "corporate" this or that, I don't give a flying fuck. I know that there are enough people that actually get it for us to win, irrespective of how many crybabies stay home and pout.

[basselope]

106. My vote means much more than you think.

Because it is representative of millions of people doing the same.

So, no there are not enough people that are going to hold their nose and vote for the evil of two lessers.. they may stay home or vote for a different party (as I would do).

But, we all know Clinton has no viable path to the White House. None. You know it deep down inside which is why you react to these simple facts which such vitriol.

If you make the mistake of giving us another center right, triangulating candidate.. hunker down for 4 years of trump and when it is over remember the lesson you learned in 2016 so we can finally get a decent candidate elected.

[Darb]

111. Delusions of grandeur don't count as votes.

Stay home and pout. I don't care. You and the millions of others. It'll be a big pout out. Whoo hoo. I still don't give a flying fuck. It won't matter.

[Atmosk]

118. She may win without sanders

Losing all the support that sanders has built would definitely wound her campaign, but I'm not quite sure it spells doom for HRC.

She could win, as some have suggested, by appealing to moderate republican voters who have been left behind by the radical right wing of the party. I personally think such a strategy has a narrow chance of success, but I think it might be what HRC will run on in the general, it seems like a platform she would be more comfortable with then holding to the left.

[Darb]

134. You don't see many Hillary supporters

whining about how they are not going to vote. None actually. We like our noses.

[Goblinmonger]

110. Jury results

For full disclosure, I was #6

On Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why young people handed us a Repugnant House and Senate.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1391425

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

There is nothing but hate in this post. Broad brush attack against many politically active Democrats and post full of hate against them for not choosing the same way as this poster.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:39 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: garbage in, garbage out.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupid values and comment, but why should it be blocked?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not calling out particular DUers
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Doesn't target any DUer, though.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is full of fail and stupidity, but I don't find anything that means I should hide it. This "get off my lawn you whippersnappers" attitude is going to do NOTHING to get the youth vote come the GE. It will help turn a lot of them off. But at least you can complain about it if Clinton loses because of "those damned kids." Headline: Old man yells at clouds.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Darb]

113. Oooh, thanks......not.

Some of us really do not care if you vote or not. Don't vote if you'd rather not. I don't care.

Young people stayed home in '10 and '14, that is a fact. Now they want us to do what they tell us to do or they are going to stay home again? Big farkin deal. I don't care.

[Goblinmonger]

116. OK, first of all, I'll be 50 this summer.

Secondly, just posting the jury results like I do for every jury I'm on that isn't a hide because I think people deserve to know. So, you know, you're welcome.

Finally, I teach high school. I think I understand what motivates youth. Your attitude doesn't. But you can have that attitude if you wish.

[Darb]

132. I am not trying to motivate anyone to do anything.

If someone wants to cut off their nose to spite their face by all means, have at it.

It's your comments on your decision about a post which I find ridiculous. Don't scold me, I don't care.

[Meteor Man]

131. Blame the victim

Maybe the Democratic Party should give them something to vote FOR instead of against.
Their message is clear. If the Dems want their vote they should make Bernie the nominee.
Problem solved.

[youceyec]

112. keep your eyes on the ball

a dem winning in November.

[SCantiGOP]

114. Hold on a minute

Just a few days ago Sanders supporters were pledging en masse to never again read Rolling Stone because this "tool of the establishment," owned by a "rich guy who sold out" had endorsed Clinton for President.
Suddenly, they are in par with the Bible.

[farleftlib]

115. Brilliant

This is why her shifting explanations and flippant attitude about the email scandal are almost more unnerving than the ostensible offense. She seems confident that just because her detractors are politically motivated, as they always have been, they must be wrong, as they often were.

But that's faulty thinking My worry is that Democrats like Hillary have been saying, "The Republicans are worse!" for so long that they've begun to believe it excuses everything. It makes me nervous to see Hillary supporters like law professor Stephen Vladeck arguing in the New York Times that the real problem wasn't anything Hillary did, but that the Espionage Act isn't "practical."

She is evasive and flippant about everything!

That's what they offered.

I'll show my transcripts when everybody else shows theirs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

129. This here is a/the problem ...

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

Those are the foundational issues for WHITE young voters ... but, not for young Voters of Color, which constitutes 43% of Millennials (and rising). Sanders is peaking at about 35% of the Black Millennial vote.

But this seems to be a (white) progressive blind spot, of all ages.

[DebbieCDC]

133. So you're saying young voters of color are NOT concerned with

mass incarceration, police brutality, domestic surveillance and income inequality?

What pray tell ARE they concerned about then?

[Meteor Man]

136. So What Motivates Young POC?

What are the foundational issues for young voters of color?

[Chemisse]

137. Locking

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