Perry voices support for English as the national language

[TexasTowelie]

At a campaign stop tonight in Mason City, Iowa, Gov. Rick Perry agreed with a member of the audience who stood up and said English should be the official national language.

The man gave his opinion about a national language while Perry fielded audience questions after speaking to about 50 people.

“That is a statement, that is not a question,” Perry said in response to the man. “And I can agree with it.”

Perry has voiced support for English as the national language in the past,but he believes other issues are more critical and should be dealt with first, spokeswoman Catherine Frazier said.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/12/30/perry_voices_support_for_engli.html

[onehandle]

1. As opposed to what you and your twin, GW Bush, speak.

Is idiot a language?

[orpupilofnature57]

3. K&R!!!!

[DesertRat]

9. Bingo!

[MADem]

16. Ha--I was gonna say "Maybe he'll bother to learn it one day!" nt

[russspeakeasy]

45. It's called englidiot.

[sakabatou]

46. DUzy

[Cleita]

2. Why is it that the biggest advocates for English as the national language

don't really have a very good grasp of what proper English is?

[orpupilofnature57]

4. It's the same basis for racism ,homophobia, and torquemada disease

Fear and self loathing, projected outwards.

[BadgerKid]

32. Not dissimilar from such people being anti-curious,

anti-science, and anti-intellect.

[orpupilofnature57]

34. Xenophobia is reverered by con artists .

A good way to steer the ignorant.

[yurbud]

50. cuz larning jes one langage is hard enuff. 2 r moor'd make a feller have to thank!

an that aint what the good lord intended us to do with the cottage chesse atwixt r eers.

[JackRiddler]

5. Damn, everyone's beating me to the punch line: "Well then he should learn it!"

[marasinghe]

6. thought this was settled back in 1795.

repuke cirque du jerk seems to be gearing up for the next round of dimwittery. there should be a hall in Madame Tussaud's, for these waxwork apes. they can just stand in place in between meal breaks & not even their mothers would know the difference. i do believe these mutations - along with their voter constituency - took a regressive evolutionary path, right in the maternal womb.

[David__77]

7. It's code for: "this is a Euro-American country."

The United States is not a nation-state in the old sense. The concern about making an official language has nothing to do with making the economy and social institutions function better; instead, it's about attempting to carve out a special status for the white people.

[Confusious]

10. Wow! I didn't realize brown people couldn't learn english

nature or nurture, do ya' think?

[Igel]

18. Only in part.

The other reason to make it a "Euro-American language" is to avoid things like that notorious Native American language, Spanish.

[Quantess]

20. "Native American language", Spanish?

In what dimension?

[Igel]

25. In one that knows sarcasm.

The claim was the assertion that the goal was to exclude non-Euro-American languages. The obvious target is Spanish.

Therefore, it's entailed that Spanish isn't a "Euro-American language." Obviously false. Think of it as a reductio ad absurdum. (Of course, I assume that I have a clue what "Euro-American" means in the context of language. Presumably it includes Slovene, Basque, and Latvian, well known languages central to the cultural hegemony imposed by Europhilic Americans. I can only wonder if it includes the assorted varieties of Roma, or even Ossetian and Kabardian.)



Linguista sum et nihil linguistici mihi alienum non puto (hat tip to Roman Jakobson, the de facto founder of my quondam discipline, Slavic linguistics).

[Ken Burch]

26. The aim is to exclude any language not introduced to the Americas by white Protestants

Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:31 PM - Edit history (1)

From the British Isles.

It's all about keeping the uber-culture of Nordic-Americans on top.

And, creepily, it seems to be about the notion that Anglos have a God-given right to eavesdrop on EVERYBODY's conversation.

[Quantess]

38. Oh, please. The goal is to exclude everything but English.

Very specifically, English.
It's based on 1: laziness;, 2: the ability to eavesdrop

I'm bilingual in a nordic european language. You really think I could get by in the USA without knowing english, using just swedish? LOL. You may want to re-think your statement.

[Ken Burch]

42. I was referring to English, which was introduced to North America

almost entirely by Protestants of Northern European descent.
I rewrote my previous post to clarify. Is it acceptable in that form?

[Quantess]

51. Yes, but it's still an overreach, to put it politely.

Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2011, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

The English language was introduced to the USA by English speaking people. What is the likelihood that Norwegians or Polish immigants came to the USA to introduce their language...drum roll... English?

Come on! I know you are not that stupid!

Getting back to the topic, English Speaking Only! This is what it's about:
1. We are Americans and Americans are the BEST in the world! We speak English and our Language is the Best in The World!
2. Too much work to learn another language.
3. Eavesdropping ability falters when we don't understand your foreign language.
4. You foreigners just learn english.

Or are people so ignorant they think all northern europeans speak English?

But in any case, let me enlighten you that Norwegians speak Norwegian, Swedes speak Swedish (similar to Norwegian but not really), people of Finland speak Finnish (a very odd language unlike any other), and Estonian, Latvian, Polish, Danish, Icelandic, (did I forget anyone?) are all different nationalities with their own unique languages.

None of these northern Europeans speak English as a first language, They learn it as schoolchildren because English is a useful second language.

[Ken Burch]

54. You'll notive that I changed it to people "of the British Isles"

I didn't say that any non-British people brought English in-they just ended up speaking it(and, in many ways, THOSE people were forced to give up way too much of their culture and identity and to put themselves through the ridiculous indignity of trying to sound and act as much like Anglo Protestants as possible-including an embrace of the prejudice against those who weren't white, a prejudice that most of those European immigrants didn't feel very much BEFORE arriving in America.)

[Quantess]

55. But then again, how difficult is it to learn another language?

There is no need to declare English as the official language of USA, but it's just a good idea for everyone living in the USA to learn English, don't you agree? The non--english speaking immigrants of circa 1900 learned english because it's just what one does when assimilating to a new country.

It's what my parents did when they came to the USA in the 1960s.... can you believe it?! LOL! These swedes learned to speak english beginning at age 30, and continued to be more and more fluent in english the longer they lived here, and the more they interacted with english speaking americans.

Please stop with the "white" OMG, it's all about skin color!!!!1 Hello, what about Black Americans? Look at Italian Americans also.

No, you are just barking up the wrong tree. There is racism, and there is lingustics. Do not confuse the two.

edit to say they were swedes in their 20s

[Ken Burch]

58. OK...it's a good idea...and almost all immigrants do it on their own

Nobody NEEDS to be pressured or coerced into it. And it doesn't harm anything to have things like,

say, bilingual ballots, so that people who are here and are becoming part of this country can have a

a real say in how it's run as soon as possible.

And I didn't use the word racism...you inferred it...Anglocentrism would be a better term.

It's still based on a pointless fixation with forcing everybody to conform to the ways of the

dominant cultural group, even if this means that everybody else is made to feel culturally

inferior and is forced to lose large chunks of their soul in the process of this pointless, forced

conformity.

What's so terrible about accepting everyone's right to be true to themselves and to believe in the

validity of their own heritage and culture? Why is that so freaking threatening to some people in t

this country? It's time to get past this notion that we can only survive as a nation if everyone

gives up as much uniqueness as possible.

[Quantess]

60. Anglocentrism is irrelevant!

What about Black Americans, do they get an automatic pass from your condemnation? Italian Americans? They aren't anglos, yet they speak english.
Anyone from ANY country, from ANY race, who has lived in the USA long enough knows they need to adjust their language skills in order to assimilate. That could mean you are a Mexican who has immigrated to Arizona, and you only need to know a tiny bit of english to get by. But it still is beneficial to learn english if you live inthe USA. If you are saying otherwise, that immigrants don't need to assimilate, well, why move to another country, then?

Like I didn't feel weird for having swedish parents... But that's another topic.

[Ken Burch]

61. Black Americans speak English, of course

but generally they aren't the ones obsessing on making everybody else speak it. Some of them do, some of them don't.

Black Americans also aren't the dominant culture, or the people most obsessed with imposing both linguistic and cultural conformity on everybody, whether that conformity serves any real purpose.

What, exactly, are you being such a stickler about here? Do you not accept that the learning of English is something that DOESN'T need to be coerced? You've belabored this exchange for two days now...when are you going to move on?

The language thing will take care of itself. Nothing else needs to be done on that front.

[Quantess]

64. Link, please.

Black people "aren't the ones obsessing on making everybody else speak" english. No more than white english speakers? What evidence do you have of that?

No, I appreciate sources and I appreciate facts. I am "belaboring" this because you keep digging a deeper hole for yourself.

I myself, have the opinion that people should learn the language(s) of their community. If you live in the USA, english needs to be one of the languages. Learn your native language and/or don't lose it, but try to learn some english as well.

You started off saying that the english language is anglo- northern european cultural domination, remember? I was the one who brought you back to earth and reminded you that no, the english language in 2011-2012 in the USA is not about that.

[Ken Burch]

70. I agreed with you that people should eventually at least try to leave English

And I clarified twice now that it wasn't ALL "Northern Europeans". Isn't that enough?

Why are you so obsessed with implicating people of color in the "English Only" bigotry? Why is that important to you?

[Quantess]

67. No, you still think that "northern europeans" dictate that English should be the dominant language

in the USA.

I am saying, no, it is not "northern europeans" or even white people in general, who are saying that America needs to be an Officially English speaking nation.

You are kind of racist yourself if you assume that black people don't care whether foreigners speak english or not, but yet you assume that "anglos" naturally do.

Who to blame: It is ignorant, closed-minded, lazy thinking english speaking Americans. Can we agree on this? Otherwise, I have a lot more bones to pick.

The language thing will take care of itself. Nothing else needs to be done on that front.
That little, insignificant language thing that you are so ignorant of? Oh you mean people actually have to learn a new language when they move somewhere?

[Ken Burch]

69. I changed it to "people of British Isles descent".

Will you just please finally accept that I'm not attacking Scandinavians here? There's no reason for you to be this freaking picky about the words here.

Why can't you accept that it isn't "Americans" as a group that are universally fixated on the English thing? Black Americans speak English...but THEY weren't the ones who started the "English Only" movement. They don't obsess on that as much as Anglos, especially Anglos in the Southwest(and I'm a person of Anglo descent, so there's nothing wrong with ME saying this)? Is there some reason that you're fixated on having it said your way? What difference does it make?

And why can't you accept that it's enough to generally expect and quietly assume that immigrants will get around to learning English. They already do and we can leave the matter at that. OK?

And fine, not all Anglos do obsess on making everyone speak English...I don't and a lot of others don't...and, with that, I've made enough distinctions.

[Quantess]

62. So, learning english = losing uniqueness?

What is wrong with learning english in addition to your native language? Am I missing something in your argument?

Also, PLEASE lose the notion that english speaking = white. That is incredibly ignorant.

[Ken Burch]

63. It's fine, if it's voluntary. And it's happening on its own.

You act as if the English language is under attack in this country. It isn't.

And the immigrant process here has never been solely about learning English...it's usually been about forced adaptation of Anglo-Saxon notions of what are acceptable cultural values. There's no reason to force immigrants to give up much of anything about their cultural heritages. We only gain by having a great variety of cultural traditions here, and by those traditions being accepted as equal in merit and validity.

[Quantess]

65. LOL... "American culture" is sad reflection.

And who said anything about forcing immigrants to give up much of anything about their cultural heritages?
I never knew learning english was such a horrible travesty!

Seriously, is it so awful to learn english in addition to your native language? Why is there so much opposition? Is the opposition based on the belief that " big bad northern european anglos" try to make you learn english, or what?

I'm not arguing that everyoe needs to speak/understand english, but what is wrong with trying to learn, at least?

[Ken Burch]

66. Let me try this again...

I'm fine with immigrants learning English(I wish all our native-born Republican presidential candidates could actually speak it), but let it be voluntary and without coercion. And accept that it's taking care of itself.

And it's been a long-standing pattern in this country's treatment of immigrants that each wave has been expected to "assimilate" in a way that they haven't just been expected to try to understand the way this country works, but have been expected to treat their own heritages as something to be ashamed of and something to at least partially abandoned. It even happened to Scandinavian immigrants. It just isn't necessary.

Just accept that everybody has the right to be true to themselves even when they do move to this country. That's not asking too much.

And we don't need to worry about the English thing...it will simply take care of itself if left alone. OK?

[Quantess]

72. With that... I agree!

But someone needs to worry about the english thing! Teachers...

Happy New Year!!!

[Quantess]

75. Interesting to see the edit post feature being used in a way to substantially change posts

instead of just using edit to fix grammar. spelling, or small details. I use it just to fix small details, but then, I don't usually post stuff I pulled straight out of my ass and claimed it to be true.

Look people, I know this is a Democratic, supposedly liberal board, so maybe people think they can get away with posting knee-jerk, unsubstantiated ideas about how blond white people are always the villain. Sometimes that's true, but you can't just get lazy in your thinking and start blaming white people for everything without considering maybe there are other factors involved.

Like in this case. He still doesn't get it, he just wants me to leave him alone now. Fine, but just don't try that again.

Sometimes DUers are no better than FReepers in their knee-jerk unthoughtfulness and ignorance. How about actually getting something to back up your assertions before posting them?

[treestar]

57. I don't think that was the point

It's another aspect of the right wing's "this is a Christian (European/White) nation.

Mentioning that, there was obviously no offense intended in saying people could not learn English. It was pointing out the possible motive for the right wing wanting to make sure English if the "official" language. It's like saying it's a "Christian" nation.

[Confusious]

74. Maybe so, but that's what it sounded like

Since when is learning English in a country that speaks English "white Christian imperialism." Maybe they have some racist issues, but if I go to live in France for the rest of my life, I'll learn French. If its Germany, German.

Since when is it rude to ask someone learn the language of the country they are living in? Or is it only rude if you're of white European Christian decent?

[treestar]

76. It's about not making it an official language

Not about it being "rude to ask them" to learn it. Most immigrants will learn it - if they bring over their old grandparents to take care of them, the old grandparents may not learn English too well. But the younger immigrants will. And they always have. So there is no reason to make an "official language."

Also, nothing would change, as private products have the different language instructions there for their own convenience - it must be cheaper to include instructions in all languages on one paper rather than take the time, while packaging, to package separate instructions in boxes designated for different countries.

Most of these types of things are for the convenience of the person who has to deal with people speaking no or broken English. Not as an attempt to "impose" other languages.

So we are talking about the motive of those who think that there is some use in a law making English the "official language." And that is generally the same people who want us to be thought of as a "Christian nation" or a one based on European values.

[Confusious]

77. Well, we are based on "European values"

Democracy is a "European" Value. The secular state is a "European" value. A country based on laws, not the will of a king or an Emperor or a church is a "European" value.

As for any English as a national language, you exaggerate. It would not effect people talking to each other on the streets, nor would it effect any company. Free speech rights and all. It would only effect the government.

[treestar]

78. It would affect nothing

Which is why it makes sense to question the motives of its supporters.

Again you deflect the real issue - why do they want this so much? They can't get a "Christian nation." And for them European values is not something like Democracy, it is to imply that Europe (i.e. white people) is superior. They can't get "white nation" to they stick with "European values."

[alp227]

21. yeah, because "states' rights" is SO 1980.

and you wanna dodge that evil anti-white lib media by avoiding directly saying "illegal alien" in your campaign!

[Historic NY]

8. Oh goodie another constitutional amendment

[TexasTowelie]

11. A constitutional amendment is way too difficult.

However, an executive order will do the trick much easier.

[freshwest]

12. Thank Gawd, Rick (The Hair) Perry ain't got the chance of a snowball in Texas to sign it.

Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2011, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

[Ken Burch]

27. Yeah...he'd have to learn how to write his own name first.

n/t.

[Norrin Radd]

14. Will conservative protesters be required to learn to spell, then?

[Zambero]

15. Is "Oops" found in English dictionaries?

With this latest xenophobic proposal, Perry et al are "oopsing" off the charts. The Latino voting population continues to increase, and at the same time the GOP is doing everything possible to alienate them. Not a very good long-term strategy it would seem. Perry is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so nothing he does comes as much of a surprise.

[nauthiz]

17. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, he should just deport himself.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. he digs a bigger hole for himself every day

[alp227]

22. so this amendment will override Texas, Louisiana, Hawaii, and Native American tribes?

Someone should ask Perry that. Here are states' official languages. Perry's native Texas doesn't use official languages, but given the state is on the border with Mexico, Spanish is widely spoken in that state. Another bilingual state, Louisiana, doesn't have official languages in law, and given its heritage as a French territory the French language is common in Louisiana. Hawaii is officially bilingual with English and Hawaiian, and the US territories except the Virgin Islands are all bilingual with both English and native languages. Maybe Perry should just straight up advocate secession if he wants to live somewhere isolated from those pesky foreign languages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Almost makes me wish

German was voted in... by the way Mexico can use half the territory back.. (There is a treaty stipulation in Guadalupe Hidalgo)

[TexasTowelie]

24. I'll have to read the treaty about that.

If you are lucky enough to get on the committee to draw the new boundaries would you please make certain that Perry's rent home is on the Mexican side of the border? I (along with many other progressives) would hate ceding the rest of Austin back to Mexico.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. The treaty is simple

if mejicanos, or descendants, are forced to speak something else than the language of their ancestors, it is cause for the territory to go back to Mexico... that means ALL of Texas, New Mexico, California, et al

This is why when California passed English Only in the 1990s, the Attorney General said, that's nice, we can't enforce this. The initiative is technically in the books, but has never been enforced.

Yup one of those stipulations that Mexico could not enforce, but the ICC case, even if we do not recognize the ICC, would be amusing to say the least.

[tclambert]

29. Ridiculous! Our official language should be American.

We ain't no sissy-pants British colony no mo. Or maybe Texan, like John Wayne. Yeah. But, really we should speak whatever language Chuck Norris allows us to speak.

[TexasTowelie]

30. LOL!

Unfortunately, I could not find any universities that offer "Texas Ranger" classes in composition, rhetoric or speech. I guess that those classes were victims to the recent budget cuts in education. Please inform us if you find any suitable substitutions.

[nxylas]

31. I have a greeting for Mr Perry

Several in fact:

http://www.native-languages.org/texas-greetings.htm

[ldf]

33. i will be the lone dissenter in this thread

lack of communication between a people does nothing but create divisions.

this has nothing to do with denying one's culture. it has everything to do with being one people.

i have no problem with making english our official language, and then acting as if that is the case.

we could start by eliminating "push 1 for english".

[JoePhilly]

36. Go to South Philly and tell them to stop speaking Italian as their primary language ...

see how it goes.

Little Ricky is simply telling xenophobes in the South that he doesn't like Mexicans ... and "English as the National Language" is a dog whistle.

[AlbertCat]

37. lack of communication between a people does nothing but create divisions.

Yeah... all that "foreign" poetry sounds better in English.

[EFerrari]

40. Lack of communication between a people and what?

And eliminating "push 1 for English" is a civil rights violation against English language learners.

[JoePhilly]

35. Eh tu Ricky, eh tu??

[tavalon]

43. DUZY

[sofa king]

39. Perry: "I eschew the jejune pedantry of non-Anglican argots."

Now he thinks I'm plotting against him in French.

[tavalon]

41. Fascinating. He advocates a national language for which he shows little proficiency.

Bless his heart, he really is dumber than a box of rocks.

[Lyric]

44. An easy thing to come out in favor of, since he has no chance of being the nominee.

Someone who had a REAL chance at being the nominee wouldn't dare. The right-wing has been courting the Latino community for much too long to blatantly smack them in the face like this.

This is Perry being petty and spiteful, trying to force the other candidates to take a position that, no matter which way they go, will hurt them. If they come out in favor of it, they lose Latino support in critical states. If they come out against it, they lose the support of the racist South.

Ahh, right-wing primary backstabbing is SO delicious.

[FailureToCommunicate]

47. Just saw the John Sales film "Silver City" The candidate was exactly Rick Perry!

They made the film thinking of Bush (Shrub) but it is so true for this knucklehead!

Great film. Maybe a bit slow by today's standards, but that's John Sales for you.

See it if you haven't.

[OmahaBlueDog]

48. I'll support this if it starts with removing all Latin legal terms and replacing them with English

"Habeas Corpus", "Certiorari". "Mandamus" and other terms that endeavor to make the law inaccessible to the common citizen.

[valerief]

49. I hear he's advocating 75 as the national I.Q., too. nt

[Islandlife]

53. ...and ban all other languages?

I don't think so. But for what purpose?

[treestar]

56. What do they think will happen, really?

This is the biggest waste of time. The country has survived without an "official language" and having one would change exactly nothing.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Well, he better get on it.

[Snake Alchemist]

68. Most Western European countries that i.e. hold any respect for have similar laws

Wrong messenger trying to score political points though.

[gtar100]

71. Which dialect?

And do we all have to speak with a Texas accent?

[TexasTowelie]

73. There are actually different accents here depending upon which part of the state that you live in.

I know because I was questioned about my accent when I moved from south Texas to central Texas for college. The people in south Texas tend to speak at slower speeds with a drawl. The people from east Texas have a softer cadence that is more typical of the southern states. The people around Dallas are sounding like they are stressed out, sort of like when I used to talk to people from NYC (no insult intended).