Democrats Are Fuming About Hillary Clinton's 'Smear' Line

[Jarqui]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by one_voice (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Huffington Post

They say it's a tacit embrace of Citizens United.

In last week's head-to-head debate with Bernie Sanders, Clinton accused the Vermont senator of deploying a "very artful smear" against her by bringing up the $675,000 she received for speaking at Goldman Sachs.

"I really don't think these kinds of attacks by insinuation are worthy of you," Clinton said to Sanders. "If you got something to say, say it directly. But you will never find that I have ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation I've received."

The audience booed Clinton over the exchange. She also raised a lot of eyebrows beyond the debate hall.
...
"I can see how in the heat of hand-to-hand political combat, that might be an appealing defense," says Kurt Walters, a campaign manager with the anti-corruption group Rootstrikers, referring to Clinton's "smear" line. "But just like the Citizens United line of thinking, it ignores all of the other ways that money influences politics beyond the explicit exchange of cash for a vote."
...
"Clinton, like our Supreme Court, ignores thousands of years of human experience in how money corrupts politics not just through quid pro quos, but also by shaping attitudes," says David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning economics writer.
...
"People say, 'Oh, [the money] doesn't have any effect on me,'" Frank told NPR in 2012. "Well, if that were the case, we'd be the only human beings in the history of the world who, on a regular basis, took significant amounts of money from perfect strangers and made sure that it had no effect on our behavior."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-smear-wall-street_us_56b9025de4b08069c7a86088

---

Tone deaf within her own party?

Looks like her campaign is taking on water fast ...

The article snags Barney Frank in a bit of a flip-flop

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. Not just democrats

The White House, her puppet masters in banking, and others at fuming, too. When the wheels are coming off, it gets ever harder to steer.

[magical thyme]

2. her "artful" use of how she "never changed a vote" is what caught my attention

She didn't have to change a vote. She was already "in their pocket" so to speak.

[Xipe Totec]

4. She says: Look at my voting record. If you like what you see, support my campaign.

It's giving free candy samples to seal the deal.

[Fuddnik]

21. I've seen her voting record, and I don't like what I saw.

What do I do now?

[Xipe Totec]

29. Somebody with 'Gold' and 'Sacks' in their name did. nt

[ladjf]

22. Exactly. nt

[Major Nikon]

38. Even that much wasn't true to begin with

http://billmoyers.com/story/elizabeth-warren-recalls-a-time-when-big-donors-may-have-changed-hillarys-vote/

[joealexander]

41. Elizabeth Warren Might Disagree

If you haven't watched this short video, it might shock you. A perfect example of how a politician like Mrs. Clinton can be idealistic, principled and follow her moral compass on issues she's passionate--but after money is injected--can walk away from those principles.

Warren's opinion on this matter is very important to me (and probably a lot of people in our party).

[tabasco]

50. Good post.

Welcome to DU.

[joealexander]

68. Thank You!

I've actually been here for about 11 years and registered about five years ago, I just never post anything.

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. I trust Sen. Warren too be truthful on this.

[trillion]

70. +10000

Among the many biggest backers of Hillary:

Lehman Brothers
Goldman Sachs
JP Morgan Chase
Citigroup
Morgan Stanley

and the list goes on with many of the big companies now hiding behind super pacs so we cant name them directly.

[INdemo]

3. This is why Hillary will lose the nomination

[Jarqui]

5. I think her campaign is sinking faster than 2008

She's a poster politician for Bernie's complaint about money in politics.

Because he's honest, her constant lying looks worse by comparison. People won't believe her or her lying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" husband.

It snowballs. Her campaign is in real trouble.

[Fast Walker 52]

12. this is true

[CoffeeCat]

49. You can feel that this is exactly what is happening

America was offered up one main dish--Hillary Clinton. We were told to basically sit down, shut up and accept what was on the plate.

Then, Bernie arrived. The electorate had to get to know him, and America had to shake the meme that Clinton would be the nominee.

Slowly, they've gotten to know Bernie. As time marches on, he is gaining so much strength.

Slowly, they've shed the belief that Clinton is "inevitable."

As those two things happen simultaneously, her campaign completely falls apart.

My husband said it best, "She was pushed in our faces once again. Then, we all began to realize...Oh yeah, we didn't really like her that much the first time around. And now we have a viable, incredible alternative. Wow, we don't have to vote for her."

You can just feel that the Clinton campaign is crumbling.

[closeupready]

86. A-men to that.

[maindawg]

6. When she said

Because that's what they offered, she lost the voters. That was crude. She is part of the problem. Over the past 25 years she has embraced the right,even joined The FAMILY,a K street neocon evangelical nut house full of corporate criminals. All the money in the world can't buy an election if the people vote. People are angry with the billionaires who are destroying our way of life while we work so hard they are having a non stop party. We are sick of it. We are going to vote in 2016, andnwenarengoing to vote no to the billionaires.

[A Simple Game]

8. I'm certainly no Hillary supporter but when she said that, what I heard was,

"I can be bought but I'm not cheap." I have no doubts that she thought her response was a good one, because to her it made perfect sense.

[Fast Walker 52]

13. yep!

[hedgehog]

69. Thank you - I had forgotten the Family!

[Vinca]

7. As everyone is aware, I'm an avid Bernie supporter. However . . .

last night I watched Rachel Maddow's interview with Hillary and she softened me up again. I honestly stopped and considered the pros and cons one last time before voting today. You know what is swaying me to plow through the snow and vote for Bernie? A combination of the "artful smear" remark and Bill Clinton all red faced and scolding. I'll give Madeline Albright a pass because she's an older lady who grew up in a much worse time for women "getting ahead-wise." And I love her collections of brooches. LOL. VOTE BERNIE!

[Fast Walker 52]

15. I don't think Hillary is a bad person and she'd be a good Democrat

but I just don't think she realizes what kind of world she inhabits and how horribly so many of her policies/votes have turned out.

[onecaliberal]

58. I'm sorry but 29 million without healthcare.

Hungry children, homeless vets, crippling education debt if you're fortunate enough to be even get there. KILLING human ability to live on earth.
No thanks. No amount of her words which she wil walk back this morning will suffice what I know will happen. Based on the fact that she is owned by those who pay for her campaigns.

[robbob]

66. Madeline Albright gets no pass from me

Her remarks concerning the alleged deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children due to the American embargo ("we think it's worth it&quot has removed any credibility this woman ever had with me.

[trillion]

74. +100000

Her and Gloria Steinem using the gender card as well as Hillary running on it has gotten me(a feminist woman) mad on how they are miss-using it. Hillary should have dumped it 10,000 miss-uses ago.

[rtracey]

9. fuming?

You want fuming..... How much will everyone be fuming when we get Bloomberg entering as an independent. A divided democratic vote give this election to Trump.... Fume on that......

[Cartoonist]

10. No fire

Bloomer will split the republican vote. Easy win for Bernie.

[Fast Walker 52]

16. he would pick off a lot of moderate Dems

but it also depends on who the GOP candidate is. If it is a radical like Trump, than he would pick off a lot of Repubes.

[Cartoonist]

20. Same if it's Cruz

Or any of those nuts

[leftofcool]

27. Bullpucky! He will get as many Dems as Repukes.

[liberalmike27]

44. Yea

Two Billionaires vs. an actual populist, people person, that's saying stuff people have been longing for on the Democratic side for decades like it's an oasis in the middle of the desert--hmmmm, I'm really super-thirsty--do I vote for the ones who make me more thirsty, and the guy with cool water to drink. Not much of a choice.

I don't understand why people think Sanders people would run away to a Billionaire? That's just crazy!?

[TexasBushwhacker]

48. I think Blomberg would be more of a problem for HRC

I don't see people leaning towards Bernie finding Blomberg attractive at all. However, there is a strong contingent that hates Clinton AND Trump. Those are the votes Bloomberg could capture.

[Amimnoch]

18. I hope to hell he doesn't do that.

I would be furious if Bernie ran as an independent against Hillary if she wins the nomination (honestly do NOT see him doing that at all, but some have suggested it).

I will be equally furious if Bloomberg does it as well to Senator Sanders.

We do NOT need to Perot ourselves.

[longship]

33. Bernie has explicitly said that he would not be a spoiler.

He is all in on this as a Democrat. He has caucused with Democrats his entire career. It is his comfort zone.

So I reject any talk of a Sanders independent run, as he has already said.

I hope people realize this.

[sprts]

35. He would take Hillary supporters

Sanders supporters are not going to jump to this corporate insider.

[bvf]

46. Not to worry.

People have suggested all sorts of crap about Sanders. It's pretty difficult to miss.

[k8conant]

78. How would we be Peroting OURSELVES?

In any case, Perot's the one who gave Bill Clinton the presidency.

[Fuddnik]

23. Threaten us with the Supreme Court, steal our health insurance, raise our taxes.......

Now Bloomberg?

That ain't gonna fly either.

[bigbrother05]

24. Imagine Bernie debating Trump and Bloomberg

Two billionaires that represent everything that Bernie is fighting. They will tout their leadership & business prowess, Bernie can point out how well we fared under the last MBA/CEO in the WH, GWB.

That's a fight I'd like to see.

[Friend or Foe]

25. Optics?

With Bloomberg on one side and Trump on the other, all Bernie needs to do is point two different directions to clearly make his point about the billionaire class stealing our elections

[bigbrother05]

26. Precisely the image in my mind and Welcome to DU!

[longship]

36. Welcome to DU!

If your future posts are like this one, welcome indeed!

My best to you.


on edit: I note that you have been lurking for some time. I did the same.

[Bradical79]

63. Good point -nt

[Dems to Win]

11. Democrats are fuming. Grassroots and Establishment Dems for opposite reasons

Grassroots groups opposing Citizens United and longtime supporters of campaign finance reform are dismayed at Clinton's comments poo-pooing any problem with corporate and billionaire cash in campaigns.

Elected Establishment Democrats are fuming at Bernie for implying all that corporate cash has influenced their actions. Barney Frank being the chosen spokes-ass for their Oh So Innocent protests that they are not corrupted by the cash.

But, we can see that if they weren't so indebted to insurance companies, they could have written a workable Universal Health Care bill. Establishment Dems are truly shocked that they are being called out on campaign cash corrupting what they have produced for us.

I'm with Bernie. He's got my $27.

[Amimnoch]

14. Just to point out, 2 of the 4x dissenting views in Citizens United were Clinton appointees.

The other 2 were appointed by Barak Obama.

None of the Justices that concurred with that case were Clinton (or at all Democrat) appointments.

It's ironic, and almost humorous the talking point that infers that Clinton is a supporter of that Supreme court decision when the whole case was for Citizens United to run an attack production against her.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

32. So why doesn't she disavow super PACs like Bernie has?

[SunSeeker]

62. Because she does not want to unilaterally disarm and give the election to the GOP.

Bernie does not disavow the super pacs that support him. He just claims he "doesn't have a super pac" -- but neither does any other candidate since that would be illegal. But he has benefited from super pac money more than Clinton.

As a matter of pure uncontested fact, there has been more super PAC money spent thus far in express support of the Sanders campaign than for either one of his Democratic rivals.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/01/bernie-sanders-super-pac-money-democratic-rivals.html

[trillion]

82. Are you personally for Citizens United?

I have no doubt she was against it from the start and then caved and became it(everything it stands for.)

That's exactly what the post of Elizabeth Warren talking is saying with the anti-bankruptcy law that Hillary fought against and then voted for on her first vote as Senator. As Warren said, when you go into big politics you now have bakers that you have to answer to. I suggest you go up and watch that Elizabeth Warren clip.

[chervilant]

17. Watching the train wreck of Clinton's campaign,

I've really enjoyed this article, especially

If anything concerns me at this pivotal moment, it's not the revolutionary tremors of the youth. Given the Great American Trash Fire we have inherited, this rebellion strikes me as exceedingly reasonable. Pick a crisis, America: Child poverty? Inexcusable. Medical debt? Immoral. For-profit prison? Medieval. Climate change? Apocalyptic. The Middle East is our Vietnam. Flint, the canary in our coal mine. Tamir Rice, our martyred saint. This place is a mess. We're due for a hard rain.

[Akamai]

31. What a wonderful article! Thanks for sharing it! I sure am going

to read her in the future. Trenchant words that cut to the causes of the problems we face and which call out the greedy and frauds for the hypocrites they are.

Excellent!!!

Go Bernie!!!

[Larkspur]

34. Yes good article. My favorite paragraph...

Sanders has split the party with hits like these, a catchy stream of pessimistic populism. Behind this arthritic Pied Piper, the youth rally, brandishing red-lettered signs reading "MONEYLENDERS OUT." If you ask them, they'll tell you there's a special place in Hell for war criminals who launch hedge funds.

[lastlib]

43. Good article!

I liked this excerpt:

The spectacle of our government's being bought is so obvious, even the youngest among us can see it. "With Hillary," eighteen-year-old Olivia Sauder told Times reporters at the Iowa Caucus, "sometimes you get this feeling that all of her sentences are owned by someone."

Ding, ding, ding.

[Not Sure]

53. Yes, great article! +1 thanks for sharing nt

[Cassiopeia]

19. Taking on water

with a bilge pump that isn't rated for the amount it's taking on.

[cantbeserious]

28. The Establishment Is Apoplectic About Bernie - No Tactic Is Too Low Or Malicious

eom

[yourout]

30. She blasted her boat full of holes when she took the speaking money.

Incredibly naive to think it would not become a campaign issue.

[fredamae]

37. The proverbial

"river of crap" running beneath us-is above flood stage.

The fatal error in strategy was not listening to the base-years ago. Now there is a line (canyon) in the sand - bs will not suffice as a bridge - they don't know how to deal with it.

No longer my problem.

[Festivito]

39. So, they weren't hiring a vote, they were hiring a YES-WOman.

Was it the wrong insinuation. Does it matter.

[NurseJackie]

40. Oh good lord! Give me a break!

[Gore1FL]

45. See if the Clinton campaign can helpo you out.

They are breaking quite a lot post IA and can probably spare a few of them.

[tabasco]

55. Compelling retort.

Now, I must re-think my position.

[Uncle Joe]

42. Barney Frank's flip is rich.

"If [Clinton] takes the money, she gets hit with this McCarthyism of the left, this guilt by association, even though there is no evidence that taking this money has had any impact on her policies," former Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told Politico last week.

Back when Clinton wasn't facing a tough primary challenge, Frank suggested that it was impossible for politicians to avoid being influenced by donors.

"People say, 'Oh, [the money] doesn't have any effect on me,'" Frank told NPR in 2012. "Well, if that were the case, we'd be the only human beings in the history of the world who, on a regular basis, took significant amounts of money from perfect strangers and made sure that it had no effect on our behavior."

Thanks for the thread, Jarqui.

[Gregorian]

51. What an election: everyone's true colors are coming out.

By today's Dem standards, you'd think I was some ultra leftist commie. I never knew. It's almost like the Dems have morphed into repulbicans, and left us behind.

[frylock]

76. Flip-floppin' Banker Barney!

What a hoot!

[Jarqui]

80. Might be getting to understand better why Dodd-Frank fell short .. nt

[frylock]

83. It is quite revealing, isn't it?

[Gregorian]

47. At least she's consistent about this. Hello voters...

[Akicita]

52. HGC's campaign may be imploding and it is due to her own choices.

Someone who is so in bed with Wall Street but campaigns on fighting for the regular folk is not believable. Someone who has spent years and years enabling the sexual depredations of her husband but campaigns on fighting for women is not believable.

The key to watch in NH is the women vote. If she loses the women vote she is in big trouble..

[libdem4life]

54. These are the operative shady words...

"But you will never find that I have ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation I've received." IOW, prove it.

But she does make a point...her votes have always been with "them" in mind. That's why her Democratic credentials suffer.

[EndElectoral]

56. For God's sake she knows its bribery...she needs to deflect it somehow.

[jwirr]

57. She takes all that money from the billionaires and expects

is to believe that they are not asking for something back in return? And since Citizens United is a big issue talking about it is not a smear.

Another out of touch Hillaryism.

[Zorro]

59. Not LBN

[sulphurdunn]

60. I wonder how long Ms. Clinton

or many other members of the political establishment would remain in politics if they had to live on their federal salaries?

[SDJay]

61. She's Essentially Arguing That

it's OK to take huge amounts of money from the bigwigs if it gets you into office. After all, that's just how it's done and if you don't do it that way you can't win. It's as if she doesn't understand or doesn't want to acknowledge that her direct challenger says and lives the opposite message and that it's working.

HRC has lived and worked a certain way for decades, and no one can argue that she's been incredibly successful even if they loathe her, which I don't by any stretch. I just don't support her in the primary but will in the GE if she wins the nomination. But she needs to recognize that this is no longer the 90's. She needs to understand that what happened to her in 08 was not necessarily an anomaly. It was the beginning of the proverbial worm turning. Many folks, right or wrong, who voted Obama in don't feel like they got the change they were hoping for. Sanders is that next opportunity and as of now appears more genuine about it.

HRC needs to recognize this and start speaking to it rather than trying to backhand this with hubris-filled insults, with accusations of racism and misogyny, with complaints about unfair attacks on her, etc. In short, she needs to step up and deal with the voting bloc that's going to decide on her D candidacy appropriately.

[SunSeeker]

64. This is not LBN. It is lame opinion. No, most Democrats are not fuming.

Most Democrats support Hillary. They know she was defending herself from Sanders' campaign insinuations that her votes were driven by WallStreet donations. That is not the same thing as "embracing Citizens United." In that same debate she attacked Citizens United.

[dmosh42]

67. She already agreed that campaign money was a problem and an issue, now it's a smear? Such BS!

[Bluenorthwest]

71. A bit of a flip-flop? Try a full 180 for Frank...

"If [Clinton] takes the money, she gets hit with this McCarthyism of the left, this guilt by association, even though there is no evidence that taking this money has had any impact on her policies," former Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told Politico last week.

Back when Clinton wasn't facing a tough primary challenge, Frank suggested that it was impossible for politicians to avoid being influenced by donors.

"People say, 'Oh, [the money] doesn't have any effect on me,'" Frank told NPR in 2012. "Well, if that were the case, we'd be the only human beings in the history of the world who, on a regular basis, took significant amounts of money from perfect strangers and made sure that it had no effect on our behavior."

[Babel_17]

72. Ha, I was googling the phrase, "Clinton, like our Supreme Court, ignores thousands of years ..."

"Clinton, like our Supreme Court, ignores thousands of years of human experience in how money corrupts politics not just through quid pro quos, but also by shaping attitudes,"

And google showed this thread in second place.

The following wikipedia page was running close behind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

[hedgehog]

73. If you have the time, Google Congel ( Republican developer), DestinyUSA (monster mall)

and Hillary Clinton (Federal loan guarantees). Please note that local city and county officials opposed DestinyUSA.

[Jarqui]

79. Not to take away from your post because your reminder is timely

here's some research on that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=821289

That deal has a real odor to it

[hedgehog]

81. Thank you for posting that. I really don't have the time to dig up all the bodies,

so I appreciate you locating this.

[itcfish]

75. I Am Fuming

How DU has become the Bernie Sander's Campàign website. Wow. I love Bernie, but this "Get Hillary" at all costs is going to cost us the White House. Yes the Clintons make millions and donate millions. So What? Geez, I never saw a poor person run for president in my lifetime.

[frylock]

77. "Elect Hillary" at all costs is going to cost us the White House.

FIFY

[closeupready]

84. ...

[one_voice]

85. Locking...

doesn't meet SoP for LBN. Please re-post in GDP.