In Milwaukee Post, Cardinal Authorized Paying Abusers

Paying off child raping Priests...YES.

I guess we see where the good Cardinal's preferences are, and who he supports!

The cardinal should have turned the offending priest to the police not paid him off. He didn't and in essence abetted in a crime.

Men of god indeed . . .

I wonder if the good Cardinal will still be making the rounds of the teevee shows now that this has come out? I suppose he will; it's not like any of the blow-dried puffheads would dare to interrupt his compulsive eating of birth control pills by asking him about paying hush money to pedophiles.

Think about it. In the absence of justice being administered to these people -- and let's be grownups, they will never see justice in this world -- is $20,000 so much to pay to get them away from more victims to rape? I suppose the counter-argument to that would be that the diocese would just put another child molester in their place...

-- Mal

You're out of your mind. Wrong in too many ways to list.

For one thing, they don't have to agree to dismissal. Just defrock 'em, excommunicate 'em, the end.
It's all about the church's inability to admit they're at fault. Spending all the money on crazy shit like this, as well as the legal defense of these god damned rapists of children ( which has led to the closing of many neighborhood, small ethnic churches which actually do some good in communities) instead on spending it on helping the victims. All because they won't admit to the crime, or as they call it, sin.

I am a grown up, and I have thought about it a lot.

Admitting to institutional error is incompatible with being an institution. Do you really need examples multiplied? Nothing would make me happier than seeing these people hanged, drawn and quartered in the public square. Or preferably imprisoned in a glass cage in front of their church, where they slowly and publicly starve to death.

It ain't gonna happen.

Waste of good money? Yeah, but I'd rather waste $20,000 to get a child rapist out of a position where his victims are supplied to him, than $60,000 on a watch for a cardinal. My priorities must be screwed up.

-- Mal

I'm not claiming that the dichotomy is a necessary one. Perhaps I should have said "The church wastes so much money on stuff that doesn't matter, it's nice to see them waste it on something that might have a collateral good effect."

-- Mal

they do - The Catholic Church itself has apologized for the Inquisition, among other things - is no excuse for failure to do the right thing.

It circumvented the process, kind of like a plea bargain. Had the church gone ahead with the defrocking, the result would have been the same BUT - this is important, the information about the crimes would have been more likely to come out.

Obviously, the idea was to keep things quiet, there's nothing shocking about that. But defrocking the priests and removing them from their positions would have the byproduct of removing them from their pool of victims.

Point being, unintended good is still good.

-- Mal

Same result without paying any hush money. Anyway, as I understand it the priests were already removed, the point of the defrocking is that it is much harder to come back as a priest ever again. But keeping things quiet is shocking, at least it should be. Because by doing that the ex-priest will be more likely to be able to move on and quietly take a position in another field that again allows access to children. Not all employers are as careful as they should be and by voluntarily giving up the priesthood the ex-priest may be able to hide the real reason he left. Not being a priest anymore is not going to stop him from trying to game the system to find more victims.

By not alerting the public to these pedophiles the church commits a sin of omission, which is every bit as much of a sin as the rest of the cover up.

The institution will not admit to error. That is -- excuse me -- the cardinal point. It cannot, must not, will not admit to the error. Such being the case, there must be no scandal -- that is not "shocking," just terrible. Or it should not be shocking, I say, if one is a grownup. It's just the way things work. Now, if you want to change the way things work, I'm behind that all the way.

Sure, the priest can find his victims elsewhere, but at least he will not have them readily-supplied by virtue of his position as priest. I agree, it would be so much better if reality allowed for these people to be exposed and brought to justice. But under the existing circumstances, which would you rather: that they remain the spiritual advisors of their communities, and continue to predate on their charges, or that they be forced to the street to find their own way?

Sadly, this argument is much the same as the one used to defend the President when he makes a bad deal with the Republicans: he got the best he could get. That really stinks, if you're an idealist.

-- Mal

for that. It is called a "cover up". And as has been said many times, a cover up is as much a crime as the original crime.

"But under the existing circumstances, which would you rather: that they remain the spiritual advisors of their communities, and continue to predate on their charges, or that they be forced to the street to find their own way?"

Again, a false choice. And please don't split hairs - when you propose two alternatives without mentioning the other possibilities as a solution to a problem it is a false choice.

The notion that "institutions will not admit to error" is not a convincing argument. Of course they don't want to. And they certainly will not if we give them a pass every time they quietly pay someone off rather than admitting error. Sorry, it is not acceptable. Hush money is wrong. Avoiding scandal by paying up and allowing a pedophile to proceed his merry way is wrong. And where do the victims fit in to this little scenario? They get no justice because the scandal is hushed up. That is error, whether the institution wants to admit it or not.

... is that you appear to think I'm trying to excuse the conduct. I'm not, I'm saying it is not wholly without benefits.

If the institution had moral courage, honesty, a commitment to what is right... we wouldn't be having this conversation. But these features are not, usually, present in institutions. That is the fundamental flaw of institutional thinking.

It is not a flaw confined to a particular institution: Pennsylvania State University has displayed much the same courage, honesty, and commitment to what is right. But as it is a much less powerful institution than the Catholic Church, it has been forced to find scapegoats to blame for its scandal. Should the Church also be forced to submit to public disapprobation, I'll be the first to cheer. But I doubt it will happen. The Church appears to be as isolated from public opinion as the Republican Party.

-- Mal

Which would not be so much of a problem if there were not victims. Victims deserve more consideration than this regardless of how inconvenient it is. And getting justice for current victims will make it less likely there will be future victims, not more. The Church took the easy way out with little regard for the victims, current or future.

Yeah, that would piss me off, too.

I'm not saying "That's the way it is, we should just let it go." I'm saying "That's the way it is -- it shouldn't be shocking to anyone with eyes to see." What bothers me is the appearence of amazement -- as if such behavior were not unthinkable. It is not just not unthinkable, it is common. It is not just common, it is regular practice. I believe (this is opinion) that it is a necessary consequence of the concept of institutionalization, and I mean "necessary" in the sense of logical necessity. People in institutions behave in a certain way because that is how they have to think to succeed.

If Congressman Anthony Wiener had, at the outset of the scandal, freely admitted what he had done, and challenged the people and the party with the question "what's so bad about it," do you think he might not have gotten more sympathy, even approval, from the masses? But instead he did what every politician, every priest, every corporate spokesman has done since time immemorial: lied, lied, and lied, and when the truth came out, was treated with derision and disdain. Now, wouldn't you think an intelligent human would have seen that coming? Wouldn't you think an intelligent human would have considered trying another tactic, just because history has shown that cover-ups don't work? But he went the route everyone else always does. Pourquoi? Because he's a coward and a fool? Possibly, but isn't it just as possible he acted that way because he was conditioned to do so by the environment in which he operates? All of which is a long-winded digression to illustrate the idea that it is not the particular institution (or individual) who is wholly to blame, but the idea of institutions altogether. (Of course, this could be seen as some kind of apologia for the individuals involved, which it is not intended to be: a man acts, and by his acts you shall know him. It would be great if more people showed moral courage. But then, if it were common, it would hardly be courage anymore, would it?)

I'm all for our justice system exerting every sinew to bring these criminals to book. I'm just not holding my breath.

-- Mal

it simply removes the church's responsibility for the predator.

The child rapes will still go on.

Honestly, the thought that the church paid these guys to get them off the Vatican rolls but did nothing about prosecuting or punishing them is even worse imho. They completely abdicated their responsibility to society by releasing these guys onto the population at large.

even try. Sorry. At 70 years old I am glad I know how to do what I can on a computer.

You're a bit older than me,. I get tired of being on the computer when people just seem to want to fight over minutiae. Hope you're doing okay over there and the family's okay as well, if I'm talking to the same person I think you are.

It will likely carry on through the 4th of July, it generally is chilly then.

80 degrees.

We don't seem to be able to get very warm right now, it's been cool and dark for a long time. I hope at least you are getting plenty of sunshine.

See how they systematically lie, care more about $$ than people, and protect/cover their own child raping a$$es:

when Dolan was in WI to say mass at holy hill. The faithful were there like sheep to the slaughter.

Faithful to the church, a man made institution...the world can do without that kind of "Faith"!

I would like the his highness the pope and all his little noblemen have to TRULY take vows of poverty instead of living in splendor, wanting and working for nothing while pillaging the earnings of millions of sheep.