Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

christx30

(6,241 posts)
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 02:44 PM Jan 2016

EU leaders consider two-year suspension of Schengen rules

Source: The Telegraph


The Schengen system of free movement could be suspended for two years under emergency measures to be discussed by European ministers on Monday, as the French Prime Minister warned the crisis could bring down the entire European Union.

Manuel Valls said that the “very idea of Europe” will be torn apart until the flows of migrants expected to surge in spring are turned away.

On Monday, interior ministers from the EU will meet in Amsterdam to discuss emergency measures to allow states to reintroduce national border controls for two years.

The powers are allowed under the Schengen rules, but would amount to an unprecedented abandonment of the 30-year old agreement that allows passport-free travel across 26 states.



Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12115654/EU-leaders-consider-two-year-suspension-of-Schengen-rules.html



The hits just keep on coming.
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
EU leaders consider two-year suspension of Schengen rules (Original Post) christx30 Jan 2016 OP
Such brilliant leadership. bemildred Jan 2016 #1
Do you support unrestricted immigration? plus5mace Jan 2016 #4
I support political leaders that are smart and perceptive enough to avoid creating such debacles. bemildred Jan 2016 #8
Border checks aren't the only method used to control immigration Major Nikon Jan 2016 #11
I see nothing wrong with 840high Jan 2016 #6
The EU is dead. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #2
Like all "free" trade agreements, it was OK when it operated among Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2016 #3
The EU is in the midst of a Mariel boatlift Dems to Win Jan 2016 #5
comment to keep eye on thread and kick and recommend n/t w0nderer Jan 2016 #7
The world can wall off the refugee problem so that it is confined to poor countries pampango Jan 2016 #9
That would be a sad end to a noble experiment DFW Jan 2016 #10
I studied the EU for a semester in Strasbourg iandhr Jan 2016 #12
Yes. 840high Jan 2016 #13
while it worked w0nderer Jan 2016 #14
Texas isn't against border control. christx30 Jan 2016 #15
I'm horribly sorry to not have specified an example by using the example tag w0nderer Jan 2016 #16
Ahhh. OK. Now I see what you meant. christx30 Jan 2016 #17
Sorry for the brash answer, my appologies w0nderer Jan 2016 #18
I agree with much of what you wrote, and sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #19
well the question becomes w0nderer Jan 2016 #21
an incentive problem Angel Martin Jan 2016 #20
Austrian Official Wants Greek Border with Europe Sealed MowCowWhoHow III Jan 2016 #22

plus5mace

(140 posts)
4. Do you support unrestricted immigration?
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:18 PM
Jan 2016

We don't let everyone cross the border, why should Europe? Germany's current policy is that all people who come to the border get through, which is a revolutionary idea that appears to be failing them. The EU doesn't have the ability to enforce immigration control in those states on the periphery at this time, and a significant (i.e. non-zero) portion of those traveling are doing so with the intent to harm Europeans. In the interest of safeguarding their citizens why not re-institute border controls on a country by country basis until this can be better addressed?

After all - we could have gone Germany's route but Obama chose only to accept families, women, and children after screening them. Does this make him evil or wise?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. I support political leaders that are smart and perceptive enough to avoid creating such debacles.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jan 2016

Closing the barn door after the horse has already run off doesn't do much good, although you still have to do it.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
11. Border checks aren't the only method used to control immigration
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 04:28 PM
Jan 2016

So the choice is not as dichotomous as you imply.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
3. Like all "free" trade agreements, it was OK when it operated among
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:16 PM
Jan 2016

countries of roughly equal socioeconomic status, but when it added poorer countries like Greece and the former Soviet bloc, it became an open invitation for the richer companies to seek cheap labor in the poorer member countries.

On my visits to the UK in 2006 and 2007, I couldn't help noticing that all the hotels and most of the restaurants and coffee shops had Eastern Europeans working in service positions, such as wait staff, housekeepers, and porters. (At one coffee shop, the counter personnel didn't speak English well enough to explain how to access the wi-fi.)

I also saw drab "council estates" (public housing), and I wondered where the entry level opportunities were for young British people who wanted to escape poverty.

And of course, we all know about the disaster that is Greece, for which the EU banksters overlooked the country's financial instability and let it into the euro straitjacket.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
5. The EU is in the midst of a Mariel boatlift
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jan 2016

Every scammer and shyster from North Africa, MidEast, Balkans is rushing to get to the German border so they can throw away their passport and pretend to be a Syrian refugee.

Not a good scene at all.

Poor EU.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
9. The world can wall off the refugee problem so that it is confined to poor countries
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:37 PM
Jan 2016

near Syria and do nothing to end the civil war that creates the refugee problem. Or it can deal with the civil war which not only ends the pressure on Europe but actually helps the people who are current and future refugees.

DFW

(54,051 posts)
10. That would be a sad end to a noble experiment
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 03:41 PM
Jan 2016

It was so cool not to have go through passport checks between Germany, where I live, and Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Sweden, Denmark and other nearby countries I visit on a regular basis. But if the countries on the EU periphery can't or won't do their jobs as border states, the rest of Schengen will have no choice. As Germany borders on nine other countries by land alone, it has been a great time saver to not have to stand in line every time I cross a border, which is usually at least once a day in my job.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
14. while it worked
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:47 PM
Jan 2016

it was comparable to the US

"outer border control" with 'free travel once inside'

removing Schengen is almost the same as putting passport controls on state to state travel in the US

unfortunately, EU had the equivalent of Texas and Montana saying 'Fxxx border control' and letting people in willy nilly

except they didn't let in Canadians and Mexicans that have a little common culture with the US

That being said,

I was always against Schengen, the Nordic countries had the Nordic passport less travel even before Schengen
it worked well but only because Norway, Denmark, Sweden have a long common history and culture


christx30

(6,241 posts)
15. Texas isn't against border control.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 09:03 PM
Jan 2016

Governor Abbot sent National Guard down to enforce the border trying to block the flood of unaccompanied minors into the country. He got a lot of crap for it, being called racist and heartless. And it was a Texas judge that ruled the President's executive order on immigration was illegal. It's going to the supreme court.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
16. I'm horribly sorry to not have specified an example by using the example tag
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 09:26 PM
Jan 2016

EXAMPLE
>>unfortunately, EU had the equivalent of Texas and Montana saying 'Fxxx border control' and letting people in willy nilly
END example

I thought that the use of "equivalent of" made that clear


christx30

(6,241 posts)
17. Ahhh. OK. Now I see what you meant.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 09:31 PM
Jan 2016

That was my mistake. My apologies.
But, yes, you're right. Europe's border controls have been lacking, and Germany's "come on in!" attitude is the major problem.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
18. Sorry for the brash answer, my appologies
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 09:52 PM
Jan 2016

I was getting pulled in multiple directions and should have waited to reply to you instead of slapping out a fast n dirty reply.

again apologies

Anyway, I did contemplate using the term 'Border states' but decided I'd spend hours explaining that I meant 'states inside the USA bordering other countries'.



Yeah, the 'border states' (now that I've defined up the term) of EU failed, notice how the states that failed are all new to the EU (relatively) (Greece) and / or part of 'East Europe' (former Warsaw pact)

Those countries are also Poor (poor countries are almost always a good way to get some nice corruption going which always helps human smuggling as a business).

Germany then tossing out "c'mon in" (and then the Swedish prime minister tossing out something similar and i AM swedish, in many places the going joke runs: PM was a welder! Was he good at that? nope, not good at that either!

Add to that that quite a few aren't really refugees, or asylum seekers but 'economic migrants'
Add to that that they want to select the country they seek asylum in -- not something the UN provides for
Add to that that complaining you don't like the food, or the accommodations, or saying "i might as well go back to Syria if you won't give me a free 'whateverhere'"

even if only few people do those things, it makes everyone look bad and it makes the population of the country receiving them not welcoming any more.

I'd wager the people that are REALLY in trouble...didn't have enough money to pay the smugglers, they are still in camps in Syria.


sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
19. I agree with much of what you wrote, and
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 10:19 PM
Jan 2016

I hope that the CDU gets kicked and the SPD gets stronger
as well as wiser. I would hate to see the rw take over.

But here is the problem, and I have no answer to it.This
is just the beginning of a terrific peoples movement
( Völkerwanderung), which will increase not just due to
poverty, but also due to Climate Change, which will
start rebellions and wars.

Where are all these people supposed to go?

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
21. well the question becomes
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 11:11 PM
Jan 2016

how can we help them stay where they are?

instead of

where will they go?

unless it's a flooding (and even flooding..Netherlands handling)
desertification (hope that's a word) ...irrigation, possibly with desalination

and so on, it'll have to be a global effort

No, not a simple solution
but i've always felt that the 'help in place' as opposed to 'move em somewhere else' to most problems works better in the long run



Angel Martin

(942 posts)
20. an incentive problem
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jan 2016

a big part of the problem is that the border countries of the EU don't have an incentive to do absolutely everything to stop illegal migrants...

...because those countries know that the migrants are just passing thru on their way to Germany.

there are now tens of millions of internally displaced persons and refugees, most in the middle east or north africa.

http://www.unhcr.org/558193896.html

MowCowWhoHow III

(2,103 posts)
22. Austrian Official Wants Greek Border with Europe Sealed
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:10 AM
Jan 2016
Austrian Official Wants Greek Border with Europe Sealed

The Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner suggested in an interview that the solution to the refugee crisis was to seal off Greece from the rest of Europe.

A story in the Financial Times claimed that the idea was a real plan, as European officials were discussing a plan to pump money into the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia to build a stronger border with Greece, blocking the flow of refugees north and effectively stranding thousands in Greece.

The new policy would shift the EU’s migrant frontline from the Turkish coast and the Aegean Sea to Greece’s northern border. Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister who has feared such a move, has warned that his country could become a “black box” for refugees.

According to the Financial Times report, the plan was discussed by EU ambassadors after Miroslav Cerar, Slovenia’s prime minister, sent a letter to his EU counterparts urging “direct assistance” to FYROM to prevent “certain irregular migrants from crossing the Greece-Macedonian* border”. (*his quote)

More: http://www.pappaspost.com/austrian-official-wants-greek-border-with-europe-sealed/
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»EU leaders consider two-y...