Vatican leakers say cardinals among plotters in scandal

the headlines? Just curious.

The leaders have always been the ones willing to be the most corrupt. The history of the Vatican is shocking and most Catholics like to pretend it is some noble, holy thing that it is not.

It allies itself with whatever local political regime in order to further its goals, and freedom from taxation is payment from the PTB in return for delivering a docile citizenry.

If the Communists had played ball with Rome, Stalin and the Popes would have been pals.

The game's afoot!

"the bible tells me so". Imagine the faithful not paying because they now have doubts as to the salvation they've thought they were making installments on all along!

And until they fully address the pedophile priest scandal, that won't change. I know I stopped giving. Heck, I stopped going entirely. And the renewed and reinvigorated politicking from the pulpit isn't likely to lure me back anytime soon.

salaries for the priest(s), parish secretary, janitor, musician/choir director; snow plowing, the mortgage for the new roof, etc, etc. A certain amount goes to the Bishop, who spends the bulk of that on things like the religious education office, the marriage tribunal, the seminary, various offices such as a priest who is in charge of outreach to the Deaf community, hospital chaplains, college chaplains, etc.

Now, to a varying degree, some (all?) bishops skim off a certain amount of money for donations to "patrons" in the Vatican and/or political stunts such as efforts to ban same sex marriage.

The problem is this: the average parishioner putting $5 in the basket on Sunday has no knowledge of, let alone control over, the amount that's skimmed off for graft. All that parishioner knows is that the choir director needs to get paid, and the Director of Religious Education is doing a good job with the kids.

I'm certain that a lot of people here would love to cut back on defense spending. Setting the risk of going to jail aside, if you could refuse to pay taxes for the defense department only if you also cut off funding for food stamps, student aid, environmental protection, etc, what would you do?

I think we're on the cusp of a major shake-up in the Catholic Church. There are a lot of Catholics out there doing bad things in the name of God, but don't forget all the Catholics out there doing good in the name of God. For every bishop in the US ranting about birth control, there is a sister in Africa quietly handing out condoms! Please remember that in months to come!

Thanks for saying that

Something like 80 - 90% of the weekly collections stay within the parish.
The yearly "(Arch)Bishop's Annual Appeal" (sometimes called Hope Appeal) that I think all (arch)dioceses do is where the bishops get the majority of their money to do outreach, etc..

People who withhold their weekly contributions are (in my opinion) mostly taking way from their church's overhead operating costs. In fact, at my parish, each week the bulletin lists the weekly cost of operating the parish - $7,500 - and the collection for the previous week. According to this past Sunday's bulletin, the collection on the previous weekend was about $5K.

the bishops tend to blame it in the poor economy. That might be so - if Protestant congregations are seeing the same problems! I suspect no one wants to look into the reasons too closely .

The Bishop's Appeal here in Syracuse consists of a "tax" on every parish. Each parish is assessed a certain amount. If people don't pony up for the special collection, then the diocese takes the money directly from the parish.

I suspect that for most parishes and dioceses, a 5-10% shortfall is critical.

what did they think would happen?

They felt he was way to conservative and also had too strong a hand in the previous Pope's decisions while he was ailing.

RCC = deep pockets.

at some point in near future the Vatican will announce it needs a bailout.

You just KNOW that all the money in the Vatican has been too tempting to the bankers of the world. They have stolen everthing else, so why not?

...with the complicity of the fascists running the Church, much like World Bank/IMF, for instance, looted Latin American countries with the collusion of local fascists and rich elites.

The Vatican already went through one banking scandal, back in the 1980s--around the time of the Reagan Savings & Loan deregulation and looting, and the Reagan re-write of the tax code to greatly favor the rich (end of the "progressive tax"). Now we have massive looting of government coffers and indenture of the poor majority for decades if not centuries to come, starting with the Corporate Press distraction of Clinton's private sex life while they got rid of Glass-Steagal (sturdy "New Deal" law regulating banks) in 1999, followed by the Bushwhacks and the most mindboggling looting of the public coffers of all time.

Very likely, there is a concomitant looting going on through and/or within the Vatican, which takes its financial ethics from the mafia (not to mention the insurance industry). Most Catholics earn money the hard way, through working; "protection money" is then extorted from them with promises of Heaven but, of course, no guarantees, in order to keep Cardinals, Bishops, the Pope and the Vatican poobahs in red robes and lace, limos, haute cuisine and high end vacations--and, of course, for "investments." It is perhaps a headier corporate mind-set that can convince itself that it is doing Jesus' work with all this royal flash, self-regard and luxury but really not all that different from Corporate CEO's who think that they are somehow serving democracy by looting companies, outsourcing jobs, privatizing everything in sight and amassing vast fortunes while doing nothing useful, or the mindset of mafia dons who think they are doing it (robbing, bullying and sometimes killing other people) for "family." Amazing what the human mind can convince itself of!

I think the Vatican has taught more than one CEO or mafia don how it's done--how you convert "love thy neighbor" into "robbing thy neighbor."

Anyway, thanks for the insight! I think you've got something. This crap about the butler is a cover story and something "financial" is going on.

no matter who owns it.
The only question would be....
would the Vatican/church be a victim of Goldman Sachs
(it is usually GS who is at the bottom of most of the looting)
or
a co-conspirator?

Look, GS has been proven to be the instigator of Greece's debt trap, and other countries, including ours.
So, why NOT the Vatican?

After all, Papa needs new shoes. More of those cool red leather Prada ones!

Carl Albert Anderson, KSG (born February 27, 1951) is the thirteenth and current Supreme Knight of the Knights of Columbus. Anderson is vice president of the Washington session of the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family.

In addition, Anderson serves as a member of the Board of Trustees of The Catholic University of America, the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, the National Catholic Educational Association as well as the supervisory council of the Vatican Bank. He also holds a seat on the International Board of Advisors of the Wheelchair Foundation.

During the administration of Ronald Reagan, Anderson served in various positions of the Executive Office of the President of the United States, including special assistant to the President and acting director of the White House Office of Public Liaison. Following his service at the White House, Anderson served for nearly a decade as a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. From 1976-81 he was a legislative assistant to Senator Jesse Helms.

As supreme knight, Anderson is the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of the world’s largest Catholic family fraternal service organization, which has more than 1.8 million members. Before his election in 2000, Anderson served as assistant supreme secretary and supreme secretary for the Order. Prior to that, he served for 10 years as the vice president for public policy and two years as the State Deputy of the District of Columbia jurisdiction. Anderson is a member and Past Grand Knight of Potomac Council #433 and a member of the James Cardinal Hickey Prince of the Church fourth degree assembly, both in Washington, DC. According to Form 990 filed with the Internal Revenue Service by the Knights of Columbus for the 2009 tax year, Anderson received a total compensation of $1,179,762 from the Knights of Columbus in the year 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_A._Anderson


To some degree, the K of C spends a lot of time raising money for various pet projects of the local pastors and various bishops:

http://www.johnpaulii.edu/about_us/page/history-of-the-institute


Knights buy John Paul II Cultural Center
Sale leaves Detroit archdiocese with loss of $34 million

he beleaguered Pope John Paul II Center in Washington, a $75 million monument to the legacy of the late pope that has been financially strapped since its opening in March 2001, will be sold for $22.7 million to the Knights of Columbus. The organization said it will transform the center into a shrine to John Paul.
The sale brings sighs of relief to the Detroit archdiocese, which has loaned the center more than $54 million under an arrangement worked out by former archbishop Cardinal Adam J. Maida, the driving force behind establishment of the facility. The archdiocese will be left with a loss of at least $34 million when the sale is finalized.

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/knights-buy-john-paul-ii-cultural-center


Yep. Mr. Anderson really , really wants more financial transparency at the Vatican!

Especially since that period of 1976-81 was precisely when Helms was both (1) deeply involved with Latin American fascists and (2) instrumental in the rise of Movement Conservatism (Ralph Reed and that crew.)

You've got me curious now. I'm going to try to find out just how tied in Anderson was with both of those.


On edit -- here he is at an early CPAC Conference ranting about abortion:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,951620,00.html

The Battle over Abortion

Monday, Apr. 06, 1981

We must do everything we "can under our constitutional system to stop the killing of unborn children. We're talking about life and death." So said Carl Anderson, legislative aide to Republican Senator Jesse Helms, at a Conservative Political Action Conference a week ago in Washington, D.C.

Circles inside circles inside circles!

http://books.google.com/books?id=u1uTPIU6lA4C&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=%22john+carbaugh%22+%22carl+anderson%22&source=bl&ots=VNeI3AvIaU&sig=swyr4fBudAIRX9Lwq296dDEqJPk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4srDT6jGH-f16AHBuOWoCg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22john%20carbaugh%22%20%22carl%20anderson%22&f=false

Using his evangelical talent to raise money in five- and ten-dollar denominations, Helms established a series of his own lobbies headed by his staff assistants, following the successful example of the Heritage Foundation, which was created by congressional aides in 1973. Under the guidance of aides Howard Segermark, John Carbaugh, and James Lucier, the Institute on Money and Inflation was born. Another aide, Carl Anderson, was sent to head up the American Family Institute. The same aides managed Helms's Centre for a Free Society, and together with Dr. Victor Feiday, a former aide to Senator Strom Thurmond, they also ran the Institute of American Relations.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/23/AR2006032301950.html

March 24, 2006

John Carbaugh, 60, once an adviser to Sen. Jesse Helms and a leading member of the senator's "shadow State Department" that actively promoted foreign policies with a highly anti-communist edge, died March 19 at the Cleveland Clinic. . .

Although little known to the public, Mr. Carbaugh had considerable clout on Capitol Hill while working for Helms (R-N.C.) as a foreign policy adviser from 1974 to 1982. . . . Mr. Carbaugh and other aides were often dispatched to report back to Helms about a country's political situation. Latin America became a focal point, with Mr. Carbaugh once saying President Jimmy Carter was carrying on a "dangerous flirtation" with leftist regimes there.

Mr. Carbaugh conveyed political support to right-leaning dictators and candidates, many with severely criticized human rights records, such as Roberto D'Aubuisson in El Salvador and Anastasio Somoza in Nicaragua. . . .

"I have no apologies for what we did because we were fighting totalitarianism and communism," Mr. Carbaugh later told a North Carolina reporter. "Helms was very useful to the U.S. government because as a so-called right-winger, when he said something, the conservatives in Latin America or South Africa listened to him."

I went to college at CUA with his daughter.

Unfortunately, you're not telling me anything I didn't already know...I wouldn't lend the guy his own $5 bill because I know somehow I'm getting screwed out of $10 and being made to look like the villain.

All I've seen are stories about leaks, but never any details on what dirt is coming out!

The arrest of Gabriele (the butler) comes just days after author Gianluigi Nuzzi published a book on the leaked documents called Sua Santita (His Holiness).

The Vatican had condemned the book as 'criminal' and the printing of the documents were a violation of the Pope's privacy it said.

Nuzzi hit back and said that the files were not private and were documents between states and he added they had been given to him by people who work inside the Vatican and in a reference to the Bible, he said the sources wanted to 'get the moneylenders out of the temple'.

(SNIP)

The documents show how contracts were awarded to favoured companies and individuals and also highlight allegations of internal power struggles with the Vatican's bank known as the Institute for Religious Works.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150076/Vatican-leaks-scandal-Pope-Benedicts-butler-Paolo-Gabriele-arrested-leaked-documents.html#ixzz1wBV4zj9n

(my emphasis)

A large part of the story was financial corruption in the Vatican.

Critics focused more on Sofia Coppola's horrible performance (I'm sure she's a very nice person, but when she was on camera the movie just crashed).

Then there was Michael Corleone's ridiculous death scene.

But I digress. The Vatican, the banks, the mysterious hanging from a London bridge.

Oh, and Andy Garcia was terrific.

The Pope has broken his silence on the Vatican leaks scandal, expressing his anger at the way some parts of the media are covering the story.

Pope Benedict XVI said "exaggerated" and "gratuitous" reports were painting a false image of the Holy See.

A series of leaks has revealed allegations of corruption, mismanagement and internal conflicts.

The Pope's butler has been charged with illegally obtaining private papal documents and memos.

Paolo Gabriele, who lives with his wife and children in a Vatican flat, where a stash of confidential documents was allegedly discovered, has pledged "full co-operation" with the investigation.

more;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18261921

He might not survive this. Can a pope be impeached?

... one of the last Popes would be 'Benedict'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Chicken, or egg? (Is the church trying to bring on 'the end of days'?)