African asylum seekers injured in Tel Aviv race riots
Source: The Guardian
Dozens of African asylum seekers were injured as race riots broke out in Tel Aviv on Wednesday night.
Thousands of protesters joined politicians to protest against the arrival of an estimated 60,000 asylum seekers in Israel in recent years. But after inflammatory speeches the demonstration broke out into violence.
Witnesses reported seeing men and women being beaten and shops and properties being attacked. Police said nine people were arrested.
The protesters were addressed by politicians including Miri Regev and Danny Danon of the ruling Likud Party. According to the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Regev described the asylum seekers as a "cancer in our body," and promised to do everything "in order to bring them back to where they belong".
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/24/tel-aviv-protest-violence-immigration
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Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Gotta wonder how many of these 'protesters' whining about people seeking a better life in their country are Likud supporters......
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)when two groups that had disagreements turned to fighting? It happens all the time here. You really should be more careful of your words unless you have some evidence of mass groups getting gassed, being forced to dig their own graves and getting shot and thrown in. HOw sickening that you would use a massive genocide to describe a riot.
meghanada
(7 posts)I didn't see any fighting in there. Violence was completely unilateral, and it wasn't the poor African refugees who were engaging in it -- it was Israelis only. And this wasn't just a disagreement over, say, politics or sports. The Israelis were rioting because they don't want dark-skinned non-Jews in their country. Doesn't that ring any bells?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Cuz that's your implication. And since when does a country not get to decide who immigrates?
meghanada
(7 posts)Last edited Thu May 24, 2012, 08:57 AM - Edit history (1)
To say that the rioters are Israelis in no way implies that all 8 million Israelis took part in the violence. Jesus, playing dumb won't help you (and Israel) in here.
And yes, a country can decide whom it will let in. But if it was Germany -- or any other country in the world -- that was saying it wouldn't accept dark-skinned people of non-German ancestry into the country, only on account of their ethnicity, I doubt you, Lefty, would be displaying such an indifferent attitude towards the racist laws.
And by the way, it isn't even Israel's laws that I'm discussing on here. It's Israelis' attitude. Threatening and beating up immigrants, even illegal immigrants, is never right. It is not an attitude expected of citizens from a self-proclaimed civilized, Western country. African refugees make up about 0.5% of Israel's population. The US has a much larger immigrant population, but I'm yet to see pogroms and government agitation against them. Why can't Israel treat its much smaller immigrant population better, like other Western countries do?
LeftishBrit
(41,202 posts)Ever read a British tabloid writer on the subject of immigrants? Ever heard of the BNP or EDL?
See the problems discussed by the great organization HopeNotHate:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/
Ever heard of Geert Wilders in the Netherlands?
'The US has a much larger immigrant population, but I'm yet to see pogroms and government agitation being incited against them.'
Perhaps not at national level, but what about the state government agitation against Mexican immigrants in e.g. Arizona? As for pogroms, what about this:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/illegal_immigrants_shot_killed.php
or the murder of little Brisenia Flores?
The actions of the Israeli anti-immigrant rioters are utterly abhorrent, but they should be seen in the context of a wider problem of racism and xenophobia in many countries, not as something unique to Israel.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)Especially this one:
> The actions of the Israeli anti-immigrant rioters are utterly abhorrent,
> but they should be seen in the context of a wider problem of racism and
> xenophobia in many countries, not as something unique to Israel.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)at your obvious attempts to bait me. Of course, only you understand what's happening there - I'm just too stupid to understand. It couldn't possibly be that I see the same thing you do and come to a different conclusion that you because you are the most smartest, most intuitive person in the world. You can start looking into Operation Moses before you accuse the Israeli's of having anything against dark skinned people. And progroms? Seriously? Your hyperbolic language does nothing but bore me.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)It just gives citizenship to the "right" immigrants. It does not give it to the "wrong" immigrants.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)What term would you use when they were "only" beating up the Jews, evicting them,
stealing from them, victimising them?
Were they Nazis when creating Judenfrei areas *before* the mass murders?
If not, what term would you prefer people to use in order that they don't "cheapen"
the label by applying it to behaviour that stops short of physical genocide?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)criminals...is that really so freeking hard to call them what they actually are? But if you think it helps your argument to use hyperbole, knock yourself out. Thinking people will come to their own conclusions.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)That's a lot like Kristillnacht
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)The Likudniks would be happy if all the Pals starved to death so Israelis have more lebansraum.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)concentration camps,' at least in the sense those words are used for the pre-Wannsee German phenomena of the same name. Dachau, for example, was administered and ruthlessly policed by members of the Nazi German security apparatus, whereas the PTs have at least the rudiments of self-governance in the form of security services, elections and so on.
That is not to diminish by one iota the massive suffering and degradation that the Palestinian people suffer on a daily basis, merely to suggest that there may be a better metaphor for the PTs than 'concentration camp.' 'Apartheid,' for example, might serve as a better metaphor, ironic since concentration camps got their start back during the Boer Wars in South Africa.
DavidDvorkin
(19,458 posts)had nothing to do with Apartheid, however.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)'apartheid' to describe the Israel-Palestinian quagmire and that word originated in the same geographic place where the 'concentration camp' originated. But apartheid and the Boer Wars have absolutely nothing to do with one another, save geographic proximity.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,314 posts)And Israeli agression probably lowered the morale aboard the USS Liberty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
On the other hand, Israel perhaps has reason to act paranoid.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)God knows the AIPAC and Likud apologists here are going to go nuts - for them Israel can do no wrong, and everyone else can do no right.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
winstars
(4,219 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)in France several years ago when immigrants from North Africa were rioting in the streets and burning cars left and right? I wonder if some here were calling them nazis....No, I don't really wonder at all, it seems just Israelis are held to that standard by many on this board.
Last edited Thu May 24, 2012, 08:06 AM - Edit history (1)
Those North African youths, who suffer from unemployment and government discrimination, were rioting because Sarkozy had described them as "scum". They weren't being moved by racial animus -- they were reacting to government racial animus.
Anyway, it's interesting how some people are willing to forgive and excuse away everything, including aggressive displays of racism, when it is Israelis who are doing it.
LeftishBrit
(41,202 posts)Israeli version?
I would say that the BNP and EDL in the UK, the LePen supporters in France, the Brewer/Arpaio supporters in Arizona and the anti-African racists in Israel are all showing the same problems of racism and anti-immigrant bigotry. It is a big problem in many places and one shouldn't excuse it anywhere. It is neither better or worse when the perpetrators are Israelis.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)The day we see the British conservatives, the French UMP or the German CDU virtually calling for this type of action, we can worry a lot more than we actually do. Not even the FN has ever organized such a demonstration in France!
As you said : "It is neither better or worse when the perpetrators are Israelis"... the nuance is that this hateful sector that rich societies tend to develop has taken (a good share of) power in Israel.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)of course Israelis get a Get Out of Jail Free card. It's Krystalnacht just a different century, different races. Do I really need a sarcasm thingee here?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Don't put words in my mouth - that's how the right wing operates (see, two can play that stupid game). People can choose to peacefully protest their government - those North Africans chose otherwise - that was their choice to make.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)your mouth. Your intent was plain to see and understand. These were ASYLUM seekers!! Don't you get that? Don't you see the irony of asylum seekers being set upon by a nation of asylum seekers? Take off the blinders.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You should bring it to parties. I understand exactly what happened there and what happened here. Once again Israel is held to a higher standard than any other country in the region and get called nazis for failing to live up to expections. That's what happened.
meghanada
(7 posts)I'm sorry, but if that was the case, then at least one of the dozens of UNSC resolutions brought up against Israel, condemning its occupation and land stealing against Palestinians, would have passed. Certainly many resolutions against Iran and Iraq have. Perhaps it is those countries that are held to a higher standard than Israel?
Anyway, you've done nothing on this thread but to whitewash the events described on the article, saying they were mere "fighting" between groups who are having disagreements, when "pogrom" is a far better description of what happened. It is clear that it isn't us who are holding Israel to an unattainable position of humanity; it is you who hold Israel to a far lower standard of behavior than most other countries in the world.
Funny, so much of Israeli propaganda is to spread the image of Israel as a Western European-like liberal democracy. But as soon as Israel's flaws are mentioned, its supporters proceed to compare Israel to non-Western dictatorships.
RZM
(8,556 posts)Sarkozy's infamous comment came after the rioting began - that's the whole reason he used the term in the first place. He was describing people who were already in the streets (the spark was actually the accidental deaths of two youths who were hiding in a power substation because they believed the police were chasing them).
Many people think his comments aggravated the situation and caused the riots to spread. But the real reason wasn't the that or the deaths of the young men, it was long-standing grievances and issues between immigrant communities and the state that went back decades.
Crowman1979
(3,844 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that is being called fascist. Language apparently has no meaning around here.
meghanada
(7 posts)Israel hasn't been a socialist country for decades. Inequality is on the up between all sectors of society -- between Israelis of Jewish vs. Palestinian descent, and also within Jews (European Jews vs. Oriental Jews).
In any event, if you think it is inappropriate to call "fascist" a country with a history of socialism, what do you think about "stalinist"? Does it feel any better?
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)you are absolutely correct. However leftnyc is far more comfortable wallowing in his culture of victimhood, and accusing everyone else of mindreading when his intent is obvious.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)reason not to make stupid, assholeish assumptions - I'm a she. Which really makes my argument quite well. Neither me or the Israeli's are victims, cupcake. Try again.
LeftishBrit
(41,202 posts)does not mean that they are 'wallowing in a culture of victimhood'. The whole concept of 'cultures of victimhood' is fundamentally RW.
I disagree with leftyinnyc on the one hand, because I think that the riots in the two cases were for completely different reasons and the point being discussed is anti-immigrant racism, not rioting as such; and with many of the others on the thread because anti-immigrant racism is a big international problem and not something special to Israel. But I don't go around accusing everyone of being in a 'culture of victimhood'; leave that sort of stuff to the RW pundits.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)the previous posts of that particular poster you would understand the use of the term I used. On the other hand, I see that you did not catch the use of the term "cupcake" in reference to me, a remark which is usually used as a derogatory term to GLBT persons like myself. I do regret the reference to the poster's gender as "his", but be aware that being in Upstate NY with only dialyup available to use without exorbitant expense, I seldom look up a poster's description. "Cupcake" indeed, more like a bran muffin, since obviously, it gives some persons the shits.
meghanada
(7 posts)for your support, Bohunk68. It's always nice when people can assess the situation for what it is, without being contaminated with ideological or ethnic sympathies, as often happens when we turn the magnifier onto Israel.
I'm also LGBT myself, and I appreciate that others from our tribe aren't letting themselves be deceived by pinkwashing propaganda. It is nonetheless interesting to see that, though Israel tries to seduce us, its supporters abuse us with innuendo if we don't respond to their propaganda the way we're "supposed" to. I've also experienced this before.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)Would use the huggy thingees, but not sure how to access them. Afterall, I'm an illiterate Upstater, as NYC people refer to us. Those are the kindest words used. Anything not in THE CITY is obviously from outer space. Sometimes the RW groups get something correct, like the proverbial broken clock, and culture of victimhood is one of them. I have many Jewish friends, yes, they are here in UNY, not just downstate. I myself have Jewish ancestry, and this using of the Holocaust for only Jewish persons, that only they got affected has been bullshit of the highest proportions for years. Especially used by those not directly affected themselves. As a GLBT, I could easily use this same culture of victimhood, because it has happened to me personally since my earliest childhood. I choose to be as evenhanded as possible, giving the doubt where needed. Hugs to you!!!!
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that passes for intellectual conversation around here. Pretty typical stuff.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,202 posts)Danny Danon is a scumbag; he has frequently attacked Netanyahu from the Right, and hosted Glenn Beck in Israel. Regev seems to be cut from the same cloth.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)<snip>
"Secretary of State Hilary Clinton presented on Thursday the State Department's 2011 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices that criticizes Israel for its treatment of African migrants, an issue vigorously debated in Israeli public discourse lately.
The report states that Sudanese and Eritrean asylum seekers, which are about 85 percent of African migrants in Israel "were not allowed access to asylum procedures but were given renewable 'conditional release' documents that deferred deportation and had to be renewed every few months."
The report quotes statistics provided by the UNHCR, showing that during the year out of 4,603 new asylum applications 3,692 were rejected. Only one was approved. 6,412 cases remained pending at year’s end.
The report also critically mentioned that the Israeli government officials "often negatively referred to asylum seekers as 'infiltrators' and periodically characterized asylum seekers as directly associated with rises in crime, disease, and terrorism."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-criticizes-israel-s-treatment-of-african-migrants-in-annual-human-rights-report-1.432518
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)over the last several years. Rhetoric from RW Israeli politicians has been increasingly racist and hostile to minorities and Arab-Israelis. We've seen this from several of their politicians.
This is very disturbing and after the capitulation of Kadima (they're now part of a coalition with Likud), Likud is likely very emboldened now - hopefully not enough to attack Iran, but who knows at this point. I just hope that calmer heads prevail.
As someone that has been sympathetic toward the Jewish state in the past, their behavior over the last several years has me severely questioning their actions...
