Carson's Lie about being named Honest Student came from Yale Parody Paper

[M.G.]

Source: Mother Jones

More Ben Carson news today! You remember Doc Carson's story about the psychology test hoax that proved he was the most honest man at Yale? Well, Carson says it really happened, and the proof is on the right. It's a piece from the Yale Daily News about a parody issue of the News published by the Yale Record. Apparently the parody issue announced that some psychology exams had been destroyed and a retest would be held in the evening. Hilarious!

This makes the whole story even more fascinating. It's clear that Carson's account is substantially different from the parody. He says the class was Perceptions 301. He says 150 students showed up. He says everyone eventually walked out. He says the professor showed up at the beginning, and then again at the end. He says the professor gave him ten dollars. None of that seems to have happened.

And yet—it certainly seems likely that this is where Carson got the idea for his story. He remembered the hoax, and then embellished it considerably to turn it into a testimony to the power of God. This even makes sense. It seemed like a strange story for Carson to invent, and it turns out he didn't. He took a story he recalled from his Yale days and then added a bunch of bells and whistles to make it into a proper testimonial.

Read more: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/ben-carsons-psychology-test-story-gets-even-weirder

---

Even by American political standards, this guy's something else.

[liberal N proud]

1. Stop picking on Ben

He can't help that he is a pathological liar.

His reply will just be that he never said that it was true.

[notadmblnd]

15. My mom had a friend like that once, I guess the woman couldn't help herself

You knew that she was lying- and she knew that you knew she was lying, but she told her lies anyway.

[liberal N proud]

17. We have had pathological liars running the country before

But do really want that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. dont worry...Bernie Sanders will save him!

[olegramps]

62. I had a very close friend who was super intelligent, but a pathological first class fabricator.

What it appeared to me was that he was able to bamboozle less discerning people and thought that he could do the same with everyone. He would change the story as suited him, thinking that no one would recall his previous account. He was very much in need of acceptance and admiration and concocted these tales to impress others of his superiority. He was academically outstanding, yet strived for greater acceptance and admiration. Carson reminds me of this person in nearly every way.

Carson claims to have been in direct connection to God who is providing him with divine guidance. He is clearly delusional. For any sane person it would seem to me that this claim would be enough to disqualify him to lead our nation. I wouldn't want him any where near the switch that could bring about a nuclear holocaust. His throng of supporters only demonstrates that our educational system has failed to take precedence over mythological nonsense with a substantial share of our fellow citizens who are willing to swallow his delusions without question.

[weissmam]

2. delusional

[stuffmatters]

6. Funny it was a class called "Perceptions," as, yep, Carson's perceptions are clearly delusional.

[DURHAM D]

3. Sssshhhh We are not supposed to discuss this on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251782603

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251782444

[M.G.]

7. I love Bernie, but....

I love Senator Sanders, but....
I'm allowed to disagree with him.

And I consider this a relevant - and amusing! - issue, because if a candidate can't distinguish between fiction and reality, he shouldn't hold high office.

[DURHAM D]

12. I agree.

Plus the media has been drifting their fingers through Hillary's underwear drawer for 25 years as well as all other Democrats running for high office looking for anything they could pant over while never bothering to examine Reagan's actual fictional out in full view stories/lies he loved to tell.

[tblue37]

9. Nope, sorry. This guy's lies are not of the same sort as those of other politicians. Carson's

lies clearly reveal a pathology that needs to be kept as far as possible from the levers of power.

[M.G.]

11. Exactly

Exactly right.

Lots of candidates fib, and they should be called on it whatever their politics, but if one can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, that's a whole different kettle of wax.

[DURHAM D]

14. I totally agree.

Plus, I think it is just a matter of time before his list of meds leaks out.

Ben scares me but the fact he has so many people supporting him is even scarier.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. Not according to Bernie Sanders....Carson is just misunderstood.

[kristopher]

34. What does it say about you and your criticism...

...that you have to make a false statement about what Bernie said?

Would you have to do that if there were actually something to criticize?

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. It says that Sanders shouldn't have handed him a lifeline...

[xocet]

51. It seems that Carson's many claims stem from the same place as Clinton's "taking sniper fire" story.

It seems to be a need to increase - directly or indirectly - one's credibility in the eyes of some group.

I wish Sec. Clinton had not diminished herself with her false story of taking sniper fire and with her vote for the war in Iraq.

[Brainstormy]

49. we have two pathological liars on the Republican ticket

Carson and Fiorina. The rest are just politicians.

[Maeve]

50. His whole campaign is built on his personality

Sorry, Bernie, love ya, but....the doctor has no record to run on, just his "integrity" and "honesty" and that crap when he's not on speaking terms with REALITY.

[Attorney in Texas]

52. Rejecting Carson because we as a people reject his reactionary ideas is a win for the voters and

also a loss for Carson -- a loss with a lesson about his unacceptable style of demagoguery.

Rejecting Carson because of some errors in his biography is a loss for Carson but it misses the opportunity to demonstrate that his public policy views are deplorable.

We miss a greatly teachable moment when we attack Carson for his full-of-holes biography rather than his full-of-shit platform.

[M.G.]

60. Can't we reject him for both reasons?

Carson's policy platform is indeed atrocious.

It's not even clear he understands the mechanics of basic policy - he has demonstrated a lack of understanding of what the debt ceiling is.

That said, Carson's lack of honesty - or more accurately, his inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality - is an issue, to my mind, largely because his entire campaign is built around his character and life story.

To my mind, we should reject him as a candidate for all relevant reasons. That one of them happens to be amusing is not sufficient to consider it invalid.

[Kalidurga]

4. If you can't believe a guy when he tells a story about how honest he is...

then what can you believe that comes out of his mouth?

[Fumesucker]

8. “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Kalidurga]

16. He reminds me of Uriah Heep

I would quote the smarmy worm, but he is such an odious character no one wants to remember what he says. Except that he is "ever so 'umble". All the monuments to his honesty and humbleness are revolting, Carson's not just Uriah's.

[Fumesucker]

30. Thanks for the earworm...

Now I'm going to share it..

I had no idea they were still performing..

[dorkzilla]

25. Great quote! <eom>

[trusty elf]

73. Ben Carson is incapable of telling a lie. Here's why:

[img][/img]

[Kalidurga]

74. Omg that explains so much

[starroute]

5. So the Record is the Yale equivalent of the Harvard Lampoon

Only founded four years earlier, in 1872. And it's not exactly obscure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yale_Record

"In 1914, J.L. Butler of The Yale Record and Richard Sanger of The Harvard Lampoon created the first annual banquet of the College Comics Association, which drew representatives from 14 college humor magazines to New Haven. The college humor style influenced—or in some cases led directly to—the Marx Brothers, The New Yorker, Playboy, Mad magazine, underground comics, National Lampoon, The Second City, and Saturday Night Live." . . .

In the late 1960s, the magazine played an integral role in editor-in-chief Garry Trudeau's creation of his epochal strip Doonesbury.[4] Trudeau published the pre-syndication Doonesbury collection Michael J. (1970) through The Yale Record. In addition to editing the Record, Trudeau (and Record chairman Tim Bannon, basis of Doonesbury attorney T.F. Bannon of Torts, Tarts & Torque) organized Record events such as a successful Annette Funicello film festival, a Tarzan film festival (with guest Johnny Weissmuller) and a Jefferson Airplane concert featuring Sha Na Na.

[3catwoman3]

10. This guy's something else."

That he is, but just exactly what that something else might be " 'tis a puzzlement."

[Babel_17]

13. Truly taking up Reagan's mantle, ...

... if you know what I mean.

“A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages,” Reagan said. “My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/07/ronald_reagans_wartime_lies_the_president_had_quite_a_brian_williams_problem/

[kairos12]

18. His pants are a five alarm blaze.

[Half-Century Man]

19. Baron Munchausen can't believe what comes out of Carson's mouth.

[Fred Sanders]

20. I disagree with Sanders. Being a pathological liar and extremist religious zealot like Ben B Stabby

IS an issue that should be discussed, it is not not a "personality" attack, it is a matter of trust.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. I'm looking forward to former9thward's defense

It will be passionate and awesome.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. I cannot wait!

[LanternWaste]

71. The defense will be rational full of critical thought, supporting evidence and...

The defense will be rational full, of critical thought, supporting evidence and... well, crap-- I just can't type that with a straight face.

[Live and Learn]

22. This is really sad. The guy obviously needs help. nt

[6000eliot]

23. There have been many versions of this story going around in higher education forever.

He may have stolen another version rather than embellishing one.

[M.G.]

24. Possibly true, but...

Possibly true, but his team referenced the Yale story in their "defense" of Carson.

[still_one]

26. People really need to be concered about this person running for President, and his mental stability.

It appears this is an habitual thing with him

[Johnny2X2X]

31. Not minor details

He's not just forgetting minor details of stories, like the name of a class he took, he's making up stories that never happened at all, and he's making up dozens of them.

[M.G.]

32. He's also running purely on the basis of character

Other than Carson's seeming inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, this is an issue because he's running a campaign for the Presidency not based on actual political accomplishments. To a very large degree, the Carson campaign is based entirely on the candidate's personal character - and this is something be seems to be genuinely deficient in.

[w0nderer]

33. wonder what the lt colonel putin

would make of a manipulative narcissist...should possibly be pushed


how can the furriners use him

[kristopher]

35. The article says a real test WAS given

"A false exam held in... The exam closely resembled the psychology exam given on Monday morning."

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/ben-carsons-psychology-test-story-gets-even-weirder

So how does that prove Carson lied or is delusional?

I think Bernie is right - Carson's weakness is his policy positions. This kind of lame 'gotcha' is more likely to backfire.

[M.G.]

41. The parody story does not line up with Carson's telling

Carson's autobiography claims he was the sole student who showed up to retake a psychology test and was awarded the honor of being named most honest student, then had his photo taken and got a ten dollar prize from the teacher.

As "proof" of this account, he cited a story which itself cited a campus parody newspaper, essentially Yale's equivalent of The Onion, which had a bit where "several" students showed up to retake a psychology test that was supposedly destroyed.
It's a little vague since we dont yet have the parody paper being cited, but it sounds like the joke intended by the parody paper here was that a psychology class was doing an experiment to test students to see how they reacted to a fakeout.

Nothing in the parody version cited in the main paper mentions one student retaking the class - 'several' did - and no mentions of any photo or ten dollar award given out.

Basically, it sounds like a rather silly joke by Yale's parody paper was cited in the main paper, and Carson had some vague memory of reading about this spoof, then recast it as a morality play with himself as hero.

[wordpix]

68. "likely to backfire"--today a pundit showed a poll w/Doc leading by even more pts.

than last week. All these lies make him more popular with the wacky repukes

[GeorgeGist]

36. He's such a turkey he thought it was true.

[Politicalboi]

37. Next it will be sniper fire

Oh wait, that lie was already done in 2008.

[Jarqui]

56. I still haven't got over that one

and I think her less publicized claim about helping Ireland get peace (that was such a stretch it was a lie).

Those lies removed whatever very few doubts I had about supporting Obama. And to this day, she will never be a candidate that I can be as enthusiastic about because of those lies.

There seems to have been so much lying in politics, we've collectively become somewhat numb to it. But I haven't. It still bothers me.

And that's a key reason why I like Bernie so much. He's very straightforward and forthright. And he's been rock solid in his beliefs for years - not compromising his beliefs and pandering (a less obvious form of dishonesty).

[Johnny2X2X]

38. Transference

What you have with Carson is a guy who a very high opinion of himself. So much so that he's internalizing stories he's heard or read and inserting himself into them. He's delusional about his past by now. He thinks these things really happened to him.

[WestSeattle2]

39. Carson is a modern day snake oil salesman, but the snake oil is him.

[struggle4progress]

40. I doubt this gave Carson the idea: I think he got it from UFO broadcasts to his dental fillings

[NBachers]

42. Where's Jon Lovitz when we need him?

[Liberty Belle]

43. Pathological liar. I covered a local candidate like this once.

One of 5 Dems in a Congressional primary. Turned out he lied about serving in Iraq, lied about having a teaching credential, winning military medals, police training, and just about everything else. When confronted he attacked the media and never would fess up to his lies even when presented with concrete proof including a fabricated photo of himself in "Desert Storm" that was actually taken at a military base in California.

People like that, in either party, should be kept as far away from power as possible.

Carson's inability to separate truth from fiction is particularly troubling, though many presidents have lied, from Bush about his national guard service, er AWOL time to Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman" to Nixon about Watergate.

[patricia92243]

44. Of 150 students, surely there is at least one that would know the details.

[Jarqui]

45. Scarborough to Carson "You're lying ... admit it"

JOE SCARBOROUGH TO BEN CARSON: ‘YOU’RE LYING,’ ‘COME OUT FRONT AND YOU NEED TO ADMIT IT’
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/09/joe-scarborough-to-ben-carson-youre-lying-come-out-front-and-you-need-to-admit-it/

A little hypocrisy using this as I'm not a big fan of Scarborough.

[M.G.]

47. No fan of Scarborough, but....

I'm no fan of Scarborough, but at least he's showing a minimal concern for truth here.

I suspect many prominent Republicans see Carson's a clown, but assume he won't win anyway so don't bother making enemies by calling him out.

[wordpix]

65. haha, dead intern Joe is so moral in his own character

[Javaman]

46. with all the stories he's making up about himself...

I am seeing a picture of a carson that shows me that he's a very unstable person who has a very low self esteem.

[Maeve]

48. It's a dumb story to begin with

Staying for a second, harder test doesn't make you "the most honest student"--it shows you're afraid to risk the teacher's wrath, maybe, instead of walking out in solidarity with your classmates. And "accidentally burnt" tests? Really? Gullible, much?

[Gothmog]

54. Carson has issues with telling the truth

[Jarqui]

57. As one of the articles pointed out with this, he most certainly does

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ben-carson/

I think that's why all these anecdotes are getting scrutinized. Since he has no political background, his life story is pretty much all they have to look at.

[olddots]

55. sadly this will help his con man career

he will fail in politics but this will not be the last we hear of Dr. Ben .Trump and Carson will land on their feet in this world of suckers .

[M.G.]

59. Unfortunately true

You're unfortunately right.

At the end of the day, Carson won't win the Presidency, and probably over two-thirds of the country - including many of the better educated Republicans - will remember him as a buffoon, but he'll still enjoy the enthusiastic support of at least a quarter of all Americans, and that will be more than enough to guarantee him millions in book sales and speaker fees.

[jtuck004]

58. George Washington: "I cannot tell a lie". Ben Carson: "I cannot tell the truth". n/t

[houston16revival]

61. Where's "You lie!" Alito When You Need Him?

He and President Ben should get along famously

[JackRiddler]

63. Early onset Alzheimer's sounds increasingly plausible.

[wordpix]

66. no way, my mom was a classic case and NEVER made up shit like this

it was hard enough for her to recall what happened 5 min. ago. The "out of reality" part, though, she shared with Doc C.

[JackRiddler]

67. Okay, but some kind of neurological illness

[wordpix]

70. I agree he seems "slow" but someone posted that on medical/brain surgery issues,

he is very different. The post-er said the doc sounded like a completely different man, very articulate, apparently

[M.G.]

64. It seems to have been an embellishment, not a fabricarion

From what we can now tell, it seems like Yale's parody paper played a prank on students and said there was a psych. test which needed retaking. The fake test was apparently made as obnoxiously difficult as possible.

Several students showed up, and one or two sat through the whole thing, not realizing it was a hoax. Those that stayed until the end got a small cash prize for being good sports.

Carson seems to have to recast this as a morality play in which he was rewarded by a Professor for honesty. So he embellished the truth, which is that he fell for a hoax, and turned it into a test of his virtue which he heroically passes . It wasn't a total fabrication, but he didn't exactly wrap himself in glory, either.

[TexasBushwhacker]

72. My guess is that the concept of parody

goes right over his head.

[Mendocino]

69. His next whopper

will be on how he was the best snipe hunter in his neighborhood.

[Helen Borg]

75. Is there anything he is not lying about?

The guy has mental problems.

[Grammy23]

76. It seems to me that some of these tales were written some time ago...

Before his decision to run for elected office. He probably grossly underestimated how much scrutiny would be given to his past, including anything he wrote and had published. He clearly gave no thought to Pres. Obama's books and how they were inspected for clues to his past! So now that he is having to deal with the fallout and the obvious fabrications in his books, he is relying on the strategy employed by others so successfully. Attacking the media is SOP for these people simply because it works...at least for their base.

What will hopefully happen this time is that there is blood in the water. So maybe the media folks will stay with this and continue to look for other examples that demonstrate what a liar Ben Carson really is. They should dog his tracks every step of the way and NOT back off. As was demonstrated last week, the good doctor does gave a temper...in spite of his calm demeanor most of the time when he is on camera. If pushed for long, he starts to crack and allows that side of him to show. I would pay serious money to see him lose it...live and on national TV.