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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Israel PM: illegal Africa...

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:11 PM

alp227 (20,428 posts)

Israel PM: illegal African immigrants threaten identity of Jewish state

Source: The Guardian

The Israeli prime minister has stoked a volatile debate about refugees and migrant workers from Africa, warning that "illegal infiltrators flooding the country" were threatening the security and identity of the Jewish state.

"If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state," Binyamin Netanyahu said at Sunday's cabinet meeting. "This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social fabric of society, our national security and our national identity." Israel's population is 7.8 million.

His comments follow media reports of rising crime, including two gang rapes, in southern Tel Aviv, where many African migrants are concentrated. However, Micky Rosenfeld, spokesman for the Israeli police, said the overall crime rate in Israel had fallen. There had been one alleged rape of a teenage girl connected to the migrant community, for which three suspects were in custody, he added.

Yohanan Danino, the Israeli police chief, said migrants should be permitted to work to discourage petty crime. Nearly all are unable to work legally, and live in overcrowded and impoverished conditions. "The community needs to be supported in order to prevent economic and social problems," said Rosenfeld.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/20/israel-netanyahu-african-immigrants-jewish

33 replies, 4340 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Israel PM: illegal African immigrants threaten identity of Jewish state (Original post)
 alp227 May 2012 OP
LineReply Aren't they just hard-working, undocumented workers?
 AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #1
LineReply 60.000 immigrants in a country of 8 million
 Lars77 May 2012 #2
LineReply ugh
 Warren Stupidity May 2012 #3
LineLineReply That many of these people are descendants of Holocause survivors...
 Odin2005 May 2012 #6
LineReply the primacy of the Herrenvolk must not be threatened...
 provis99 May 2012 #4
LineReply Victims of abuse often become abusers themselves.
 Odin2005 May 2012 #5
LineLineReply Starting?
 Bohunk68 May 2012 #7
LineLineLineReply +1
 Blue_Tires May 2012 #11
LineLineLineLineReply +2.
 nanabugg May 2012 #15
LineLineReply But the majority...
 zentrum May 2012 #13
LineReply Quick: Name another country where people of a different religion...
 Poll_Blind May 2012 #8
LineReply "Yishai repeated an earlier call for all migrants to be jailed pending deportation."
 bloomington-lib May 2012 #9
LineReply What identity?
 randome May 2012 #10
LineLineReply You seem to have a lot of questions.
 Chef Eric May 2012 #12
LineLineLineReply I know it's a lot more complicated than I made it out.
 randome May 2012 #16
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Oh, I see. Your questions were rhetorical.
 Chef Eric May 2012 #27
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I have nothing against you or yours.
 randome May 2012 #29
LineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I guess we're not so different.
 Chef Eric May 2012 #31
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply It IS human nature, you're right.
 randome May 2012 #32
LineLineLineReply You might also ask them why they drove those other people into a new diaspora
 TomClash May 2012 #20
LineReply Why would one move to a country if you're not legally able to work there?
 Neue Regel May 2012 #14
LineLineReply You can ask . . .
 TomClash May 2012 #18
LineLineLineReply That canard is worn and tired
 Neue Regel May 2012 #23
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Not so
 TomClash May 2012 #30
LineLineReply "Should Americans be allowed to move to Canada, France, Sweden, Finland, etc. and expect to receive
 pampango May 2012 #19
LineLineLineNew Reply +1!!
 harmonicon May 2012 #25
LineReply Ugh...
 sakabatou May 2012 #17
LineReply The most openly racist country on Earth
 Ter May 2012 #21
LineReply Ugh
 Marrah_G May 2012 #22
LineNew Reply OMFG!! It's like a giant fucking irony machine!!
 harmonicon May 2012 #24
LineNew Reply "a Molotov cocktail was thrown into the courtyard of a kindergarten"
 Prometheus Bound May 2012 #26
LineNew Reply Maintaining a democratic theocracy is hard work.
 rucky May 2012 #28
LineNew Reply unlocking do to another hosts opinion will wait for more consensus n/t
 azurnoir May 2012 #33

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:19 PM

AnotherMcIntosh (7,520 posts)

1. Aren't they just hard-working, undocumented workers?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:21 PM

Lars77 (3,032 posts)

2. 60.000 immigrants in a country of 8 million

That is nothing when you compare to European countries.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:29 PM

Star Member Warren Stupidity (31,910 posts)

3. ugh

The echo here of the 30's is just sickening.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:54 PM

Odin2005 (48,255 posts)

6. That many of these people are descendants of Holocause survivors...

...makes it even more sickening.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:42 PM

provis99 (13,062 posts)

4. the primacy of the Herrenvolk must not be threatened...

 

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 05:54 PM

Odin2005 (48,255 posts)

5. Victims of abuse often become abusers themselves.

The same applies to nations, it seems. Israelis, whose ancestors were victims of the Nazis, start acting like Nazis.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #5)

Sun May 20, 2012, 06:00 PM

Star Member Bohunk68 (512 posts)

7. Starting?

Ask the Palestinians.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #7)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:24 PM

Blue_Tires (31,659 posts)

11. +1

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #11)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:51 PM

nanabugg (2,198 posts)

15. +2.

 

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #5)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:04 PM

zentrum (427 posts)

13. But the majority...

...of victims of abuse do not abuse. They just don't get media attention.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 06:18 PM

Poll_Blind (23,185 posts)

8. Quick: Name another country where people of a different religion...

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 06:18 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

....living in it are described by that country's Prime Minister/President as an "existential threat"?

"If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state,"


Wow. Just fucking WOW.

PB

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 06:20 PM

bloomington-lib (803 posts)

9. "Yishai repeated an earlier call for all migrants to be jailed pending deportation."

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 06:22 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

"I want everyone to be able to walk the streets without fear or trepidation ... The migrants are giving birth to hundreds of thousands, and the Zionist dream is dying," he told Army Radio. Last week he said most migrants were involved in criminal activity."

He doesn't really mean "everyone". And "hundreds of thousands"? I thought it said 60,000.


According to police data quoted by the Hotline for Migrant Workers, the crime rate among foreigners in Israel was 2.04% in 2010, compared with 4.99% among Israelis.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 06:25 PM

Star Member randome (12,621 posts)

10. What identity?

Are they a race? Are they a religion? Are they a nation? And why are they living smack dab in the middle of some other people's property?

Geeze, it's a wonder they don't all go schizo over there.

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Response to randome (Reply #10)

Sun May 20, 2012, 07:55 PM

Chef Eric (718 posts)

12. You seem to have a lot of questions.

If you really want some answers, you could pay Israel a visit. You could ask the Israelis about their identity, and why they are living on "other people's property."

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #12)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:57 PM

Star Member randome (12,621 posts)

16. I know it's a lot more complicated than I made it out.

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 09:02 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

But Israel will forever be at war with its neighbors and, now, with immigrants and nothing will be resolved. For Eternity.

That, apparently, is what happens when you want to be a religion, a race and a state all at the same time.

And why would I want to visit Israel if immigrants are unwelcome?

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Response to randome (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:14 AM

Chef Eric (718 posts)

27. Oh, I see. Your questions were rhetorical.

You weren't really asking the questions, because you have the answers already. Or at least you think you do.

By the way, I'm 48 years old and culturally Jewish, and I've known lots of other Jews in my lifetime. I've never believed that we Jews were a "race," and I've never known another Jew who believed that we Jews were a race either. And yet, you seem pretty certain that we think we're a race, and that we "want" to be a race.

By the way, there's a difference between a visitor and an immigrant. So, I guess you'll need to come up with some different excuses as to why you shouldn't visit Israel and broaden your horizons.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #27)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:37 AM

Star Member randome (12,621 posts)

29. I have nothing against you or yours.

If I have a misconception of Jews believing they are a race, fine, but I'm not the only one who has that misconception, as a simple search of Google will show.

After a while, however, being Jewish, to me, means more of the same-old, same-old. Religion being used to segregate people into 'groups' or 'clubs'.

Anyone not in the 'club' is 'other'.

So I suppose my problem with Israel is more a distaste of organized religion in general.

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Response to randome (Reply #29)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:55 PM

Chef Eric (718 posts)

31. I guess we're not so different.

I don't have much appreciation for organized religion either. That's why I identify with the cultural aspects of Judaism rather than the religious ones.

However, I don't see 'clubs' as a purely bad thing. It's human nature for like-minded people to gather together, and I think can be very constructive, as long as they are willing to empathize with people outside their group.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #31)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:15 PM

Star Member randome (12,621 posts)

32. It IS human nature, you're right.

It's embarrassing to admit that we wouldn't have the scientific principle if religion didn't start us off by trying to understand the strange universe we found ourselves in.

Expecting everyone to think rationally is not always the best approach. Learning to deal with religion is a necessary part of pushing forward.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #12)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:04 PM

Star Member TomClash (10,945 posts)

20. You might also ask them why they drove those other people into a new diaspora

On your next visit.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 08:40 PM

Neue Regel (221 posts)

14. Why would one move to a country if you're not legally able to work there?

 

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 08:49 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

From the article:

"Yohanan Danino, the Israeli police chief, said migrants should be permitted to work to discourage petty crime. Nearly all are unable to work legally, and live in overcrowded and impoverished conditions"

Should Americans be allowed to move to Canada, France, Sweden, Finland, etc. and expect to receive food, housing, education, or medical benefits?

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Response to Neue Regel (Reply #14)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:02 PM

Star Member TomClash (10,945 posts)

18. You can ask . . .

. . . The busboy that question next time you go to dinner in any US city.

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Response to TomClash (Reply #18)

Sun May 20, 2012, 11:13 PM

Neue Regel (221 posts)

23. That canard is worn and tired

 

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 11:14 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

I worked in several restaurants as a waiter, busboy, dishwasher, and prep cook. None of the servers or busboys I worked with were in the US illegally, yet the restaurants managed to thrive.

It is easy to find people to work in the restaurant industry who are legally eligible to work in US.

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Response to Neue Regel (Reply #23)

Mon May 21, 2012, 09:31 AM

Star Member TomClash (10,945 posts)

30. Not so

But even if true there are illegals working in many industries in the US - Alabama's recent farm worker problem is a case in point.

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Response to Neue Regel (Reply #14)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:03 PM

Star Member pampango (13,986 posts)

19. "Should Americans be allowed to move to Canada, France, Sweden, Finland, etc. and expect to receive

food, housing, education, or medical benefits?"

In a perfect world, yes.

Even in an imperfect world, citizens of three of those countries (France, Sweden and Finland - among many others in Europe) are "allowed to move to" each others' countries "and expect to receive food, housing, education, or medical benefits?"

Increasing the freedom of people to live and work where they want is not an impossible goal. It actually happens much more now in Europe than it did before WWII.

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Response to pampango (Reply #19)

Mon May 21, 2012, 01:03 AM

harmonicon (11,927 posts)

25. +1!!

This is what we should strive for. Living as an immigrant in the UK for the last five years, I've come to really appreciate a lot of what it has to offer, but also to resent that I'm legally worth less than a UK citizen because of an accident of birth. I really think we should be working towards a world where anyone can live wherever they want if they feel it is best for them.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 09:39 PM

sakabatou (29,071 posts)

17. Ugh...

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 10:59 PM

Ter (4,175 posts)

21. The most openly racist country on Earth

If you're not Jewish, you're second class.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 20, 2012, 11:12 PM

Star Member Marrah_G (22,396 posts)

22. Ugh

Even Israel has it's own teabaggers. I hope the people of Israel will vote that horrible person out of office.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 12:56 AM

harmonicon (11,927 posts)

24. OMFG!! It's like a giant fucking irony machine!!

Does Netanyahu even think for two seconds before things like this come out of his mouth?!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 01:16 AM

Prometheus Bound (3,489 posts)

26. "a Molotov cocktail was thrown into the courtyard of a kindergarten"

Hard to believe people can be so filled with hate.

As tensions rise in cities with relatively high African populations, the past month has seen a spate of attacks on buildings in south Tel Aviv that house asylum seekers and migrant workers. In one incident, a Molotov cocktail was thrown into the courtyard of a kindergarten. NGOs working with migrants have also received abusive and threatening calls.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:55 AM

Star Member rucky (34,998 posts)

28. Maintaining a democratic theocracy is hard work.

maybe they should choose one or the other.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:05 AM

Star Member azurnoir (26,604 posts)

33. unlocking do to another hosts opinion will wait for more consensus n/t

Last edited Tue May 22, 2012, 04:25 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

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