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JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:38 PM Oct 2015

Smoking gun emails reveal Blair's 'deal in blood' with George Bush over Iraq war

Source: Daily Mail

Smoking gun emails reveal Blair's 'deal in blood' with George Bush over Iraq war was forged a YEAR before the invasion had even started - despite claiming he wanted peace

A bombshell White House memo has revealed for the first time details of the ‘deal in blood’ forged by Tony Blair and George Bush over the Iraq War.

The sensational leak shows that Blair had given an unqualified pledge to sign up to the conflict a year before the invasion started.
It flies in the face of the Prime Minister’s public claims at the time that he was seeking a diplomatic solution to the crisis.
He told voters: ‘We’re not proposing military action’ – in direct contrast to what the secret email now reveals.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277402/Smoking-gun-emails-reveal-Blair-s-deal-blood-George-Bush-Iraq-war-forged-YEAR-invasion-started.html

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Smoking gun emails reveal Blair's 'deal in blood' with George Bush over Iraq war (Original Post) JohnyCanuck Oct 2015 OP
Hillary Is Our Tony Blair. billhicks76 Oct 2015 #1
Wait, Bush lied us into war and you blame Hillary? Kingofalldems Oct 2015 #5
She did vote for the war while in the Senate harun Oct 2015 #6
True, but she was not in on the conspiracy of republican lies. Kingofalldems Oct 2015 #7
She didn't bother to examine the intelligence either truebluegreen Oct 2015 #13
Thank you. gvstn Oct 2015 #77
If You Believe That I Have A Bridge In Alaska To Sell You billhicks76 Oct 2015 #17
No. She just wasn't intelligent or well informed enough to realize that it was a conspiracy of lies JDPriestly Oct 2015 #22
That is arguably False: Neocons are going "bipartisan" with Clinton..... cprise Oct 2015 #23
No she did the same as most of the other Democrats - she was just politically expedient. LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #82
I knew the Bush/Cheney statements were bullshit. Hoppy Oct 2015 #29
Neither of those LiberalLovinLug Oct 2015 #61
Do you think it's better to think that she just believed them all? cui bono Oct 2015 #64
+1 harun Oct 2015 #88
When she received that memo, she had PROOF it was all a lie. She kept quiet about it all this time. arcane1 Oct 2015 #72
Why? The long time relationship between the Bush's and the Clinton's. DhhD Oct 2015 #75
No, she voted to give the President the power to invade, if Darb Oct 2015 #42
If you want to play that game then the constitution says only Congress has the authority to harun Oct 2015 #87
Really??? Bush IS A War Criminal And Hillary Is A Collaborator billhicks76 Oct 2015 #11
Way to divert attention from the real villains McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #9
It wouldn't be DU awoke_in_2003 Oct 2015 #12
Um, yeah... right... maybe... cprise Oct 2015 #24
yeah, she is probably responsible for 911 also. what a knucklehead olddad56 Oct 2015 #15
You're The Knucklehead billhicks76 Oct 2015 #20
it was intended to be a joke, knucklehead. olddad56 Oct 2015 #80
Ahh...You Don't Like Facts billhicks76 Oct 2015 #85
Why don't you go to the general discussion : Primaries group to discuss your problems with Hillary? still_one Oct 2015 #34
Because This Is Anout Blair billhicks76 Oct 2015 #35
you're not discussing Tony Blair, you are trying to bring a discussion that belongs in the primary still_one Oct 2015 #36
Yawn billhicks76 Oct 2015 #57
Please stop the trash talking.... FarPoint Oct 2015 #37
Please stop the psychic nonsense. Hillary is our Democratic Nominee??? cui bono Oct 2015 #65
Bernie won't win....I have a tremendous respect for him and his platform. FarPoint Oct 2015 #68
I understand your conviction, but you stated that Hillary "is" the Democratic Nominee. cui bono Oct 2015 #69
She is not patsimp Oct 2015 #40
I consider her our Margaret Thatcher - swilton Oct 2015 #55
Her goal is to be the first woman President. gvstn Oct 2015 #78
It's all about the "brand" n/t arcane1 Oct 2015 #81
Yes, but Bill always seemed more affable. gvstn Oct 2015 #83
give us a break BlueCollar Oct 2015 #56
Oh It's A Real Analogy billhicks76 Oct 2015 #58
from the article grasswire Oct 2015 #84
Color me surprised. n/t SpankMe Oct 2015 #2
International War Criminals, all of them PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #3
Of course Blair didn't want peace forest444 Oct 2015 #4
Ah! This is very clear. You have answered a question I have had for a long time. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #26
Mine too. Duppers Oct 2015 #30
Here's a Greg Palast article I posted a while ago marym625 Oct 2015 #90
Thanks for this info, forest444. Duppers Oct 2015 #28
Please make this an OP. This info needs to be known by all. Duppers Oct 2015 #32
And we got the bill for the imperialism of the British and Dutch monarchies. They're still at it. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #76
Much of this was known at the time starroute Oct 2015 #8
I thought for a nanosecond... Thespian2 Oct 2015 #10
On Monday we get to vote out our version of Tony Blair. Stevie let, me suck US cock, Harper Monk06 Oct 2015 #14
The Truth Will Out - Though Justice Will Be Denied cantbeserious Oct 2015 #16
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #18
Tony Blair is war criminal. n/t Little Tich Oct 2015 #19
Memo was included in Mrs. Clinton's 30,000 emails. Duppers Oct 2015 #21
Wow - I wonder if they rubber off on her cprise Oct 2015 #27
Blair signing up a year before the invasion is very interesting Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2015 #63
And Dr. Kelly didn't commit suicide. Gregorian Oct 2015 #25
Republicans Just Ignore - Ignore - Ignore Yallow Oct 2015 #31
+100 Duppers Oct 2015 #33
This is a jumbled excerp from a book I'm browsing, it explains much. Gregorian Oct 2015 #43
WTF? Yallow Oct 2015 #44
Haha. I can see how you misinterpreted that. Gregorian Oct 2015 #46
I Know My Anger Is Justified Yallow Oct 2015 #47
Gregorian was only trying to explain WHY Duppers Oct 2015 #60
Interesting theory Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #50
It's natural to forgive. Gregorian Oct 2015 #54
Balance, my friend, is always a matter of perspective. Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #62
We forgive ourselves for not being present. We forgive ourselves for believing we are separate. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #79
"What will it take to replace their hatred with understanding and compassion?" Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #66
k&r nt bananas Oct 2015 #38
Another secret document relating to national security on her insecure server. Lychee2 Oct 2015 #39
Yep; what is everyone cheering about?! This document is bad news... 4139 Oct 2015 #52
"someone arrests her"? Duppers Oct 2015 #70
I don't think so rockfordfile Oct 2015 #73
Jeb Bush was 'in the bushcheneny loop'. bush lied to 'the people' &everyone outside 'the loop' Sunlei Oct 2015 #41
FFS, it was all laid out in the PNAC papers YEARS before the invasion. valerief Oct 2015 #45
I realy realy want to accept this as news, but I just can't. Bubzer Oct 2015 #48
Lot of good that does now bluestateguy Oct 2015 #49
And yet Tony, GWBush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al are going to get away with it..... peacebird Oct 2015 #51
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #53
War Criminals...all walking fat, rich and happy. SoapBox Oct 2015 #59
Surprise!!!!! Miigwech Oct 2015 #67
Too bad she didn't tell the world about this when she first got the email. arcane1 Oct 2015 #71
If she is the Democratic nominee rockfordfile Oct 2015 #74
K&R nt LiberalElite Oct 2015 #86
and a kick! n/t wildbilln864 Oct 2015 #89

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
22. No. She just wasn't intelligent or well informed enough to realize that it was a conspiracy of lies
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:14 AM
Oct 2015

Maybe she just wasn't paying attention.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
29. I knew the Bush/Cheney statements were bullshit.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:38 AM
Oct 2015

Most D.U. readers also knew. Millions of people protesting before the start of the war also knew.

Hillary had more information than we did.

Either she is stupid, she is gullible or she is feckless.

Ya gotta choose one. Let me know which one you choose.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,154 posts)
61. Neither of those
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:41 PM
Oct 2015

It was d, she saw that her chances of winning over the majority for becoming President as non-existent if she voted against it. Or rather the risk was too great that they just might find WMDs of some sort, and just maybe also the US army might very well secure the country quickly and install a fair democracy. She knew that she would already be attacked mercelesly by Fox and friends on hate radio in her bid for the Presidency, but that IF she was on the wrong side she would be smeared as "anti-troops" "anti-American" and weak on defense.

I say this as a Bernie supporter. And I'm not making excuses. Just being real about it. And if she only voted for it for political reasons to look "tough", then that further cements her reputation of only interested in power for powers sake. She only says it was a mistake because she probably did not even want to vote that way but I'm sure Bill and others in the DLC advised her strongly to vote against her conscience in this instance. I mean Bill also advised Gore to come out strongly against gay marriage in his run. Not because it was wrong, but as a way to shore up independents votes.

I don't even totally blame her for that. It was cowardly but understandable in the atmosphere of the day. And it wouldn't stop me from voting for her if she were the only choice. But the fact that we have an alternative candidate that actually stood his moral ground, damn the consequences, is much more preferable than a weathervane politician.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
72. When she received that memo, she had PROOF it was all a lie. She kept quiet about it all this time.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 07:40 PM
Oct 2015

Why?

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
75. Why? The long time relationship between the Bush's and the Clinton's.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 08:15 PM
Oct 2015

And, IMO, a bad war hawk decision going along with it being a short, Mission Accomplished, promise from Bush, and maybe Bill, in my opinion. IMO, she made a grave mistake voting yes, knowing that the Intel was a lie. General Shinseki said we would need over 400,000 troops on the ground. What a quagmire.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
42. No, she voted to give the President the power to invade, if
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:14 AM
Oct 2015

it was deemed necessary for the inherent safety of our country. The president at the time, chose to go to war. Nice try, the war is on Bush and those that voted for him. Clue in.

harun

(11,348 posts)
87. If you want to play that game then the constitution says only Congress has the authority to
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 09:31 AM
Oct 2015

declare war and passing the buck to the Executive should have been criminal whether the Executive chose to use that authority or not.

Look at the standard list of third way DINO's who voted in favor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#United_States_Senate

** These DINO's are the problem, not the solution....
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-FL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Cleland (D-GA)
Bayh (D-IN)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Nelson (D-NE)
Clinton (D-NY)

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
11. Really??? Bush IS A War Criminal And Hillary Is A Collaborator
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:42 PM
Oct 2015

Is that so hard for you to follow even with your filters on? It simply amazes me the degree of rationalizations Hillary supporters come up with. I cant stop Bush but we can stop Hillary because she is one of ours representing US and we have a duty to police and maintain integrity within our own party. And the MAIN POINT of my comment was that just because Tony Blair was a liberal it MEANT NOTHING. He was a traitor...a war criminal...using the liberal party to mask his crimes and collaborate with the enemy...the enemy being the war mongering conservatives. Certain liars were installed by Big Money in the liberal parties to have all bases covered. How can you be so blind? We all wonder how Republicans can be so blind and obtuse but this is a perfect example to understand how that mindset works as it happens in our own ranks. Lemmings.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
20. You're The Knucklehead
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:33 PM
Oct 2015

I never said anything about 911. But maybe you should hold Bush responsible for that and while youre at it ask Hillary why she has the rare honorary title of Bush Family Member. The woman voted for the Iraq war and that support meant a lot to those chearleading the effort. The point is we have to clean up our own house because thats who we can affect. Your comment is a joke.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
85. Ahh...You Don't Like Facts
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 03:24 AM
Oct 2015

There are many who think like you. Many of them republicans. You probably can't admit that Hillary takes money from the private prison industry.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
35. Because This Is Anout Blair
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 01:53 AM
Oct 2015

He resembles our DNC leadership. Collaborators. This needs to be addressed. Wassermann-Schultz is a lot like Hillary too. A bunch of rotten apples.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
36. you're not discussing Tony Blair, you are trying to bring a discussion that belongs in the primary
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:05 AM
Oct 2015

general discussion forum to create flame bait in LBN, and distract from the OP of this thread, so it can turn into a bashing thread against a candidate you don't support.

and your response to me only confirms that I am correct, by now bringing in the DNC and DWS into an OP about Blair.







FarPoint

(12,209 posts)
37. Please stop the trash talking....
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:06 AM
Oct 2015

Hillary is and will be our Democratic Nominee.... This thread is not about her...it's a reminder of how devastating a GOP President was to American...

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
65. Please stop the psychic nonsense. Hillary is our Democratic Nominee???
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 04:12 PM
Oct 2015

The primaries are over? Man, I slept a lot longer than I thought I did.

FarPoint

(12,209 posts)
68. Bernie won't win....I have a tremendous respect for him and his platform.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 05:07 PM
Oct 2015

Realistically, the game at hand is not about idealistic goals. For that to happen, we Democrats would have to regain control of the House and Senate to even consider his agenda....Hillary had already done her background work...secured a strong grassroots organization, key endorsements essential for the Democratic Nomination. Biden would be her only threat making Bernie in third place verses second.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
69. I understand your conviction, but you stated that Hillary "is" the Democratic Nominee.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 05:10 PM
Oct 2015

There has been no primary yet.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
55. I consider her our Margaret Thatcher -
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:05 PM
Oct 2015

hoping of course she doesn't get elected.

Austerity, a hawk....etc., etc.

gvstn

(2,805 posts)
78. Her goal is to be the first woman President.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 08:26 PM
Oct 2015

She'll say and do anything to achieve that goal.

Her stance on gay marriage proves that. She may have always thought gays should have the right to be married but she wouldn't say it until the polls said at least 50% of Americans agreed. I just don't trust her to stand up for progressive or even basic humanistic ideals.

gvstn

(2,805 posts)
83. Yes, but Bill always seemed more affable.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:40 PM
Oct 2015

Hillary would start a war to prove that a woman can be strong. Something I just don't trust about her. Brand be damned.

I'll have a hard time pulling the lever for her if she is our candidate.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
58. Oh It's A Real Analogy
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:18 PM
Oct 2015

The point is war mongers so can be democrats too. Especially if they are corrupt and beholden to Bush Sr like Tony and Hillary. Can you read?

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
84. from the article
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 02:06 AM
Oct 2015

The documents, obtained by The Mail on Sunday, are part of a batch of secret emails held on the private server of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton which U.S. courts have forced her to reveal.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
3. International War Criminals, all of them
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:57 PM
Oct 2015

This Nation has no claim to being anything more than a tyrannical empire until such time as these criminals are handed over to The Hague.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
4. Of course Blair didn't want peace
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:04 PM
Oct 2015

His instructions were to, in fact, request a U.S.-led invasion to recover, for BP and Shell, the massive oil reserves Iraq nationalized in 1972.

Indeed, contrary to common belief most Iraqi oil output since then has been controlled not by U.S. firms; but by BP, Shell, and China National Petroleum (they did finance the war, after all). They do not technically own the oil; but extract it through concessions from the BP-controlled Iraq Petroleum Company.

The "Iraq Petroleum Company" was the very name of the Anglo-Dutch concern that controlled Iraqi oil from its establishment during the Lawrence of Arabia era, until its nationalization by the Baath Party in 1972.

Mission Accomplished.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
26. Ah! This is very clear. You have answered a question I have had for a long time.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:31 AM
Oct 2015

Which oil companies got the oil.

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
32. Please make this an OP. This info needs to be known by all.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:52 AM
Oct 2015

I'd also like to send it out but need some links.

THANK YOU!

starroute

(12,977 posts)
8. Much of this was known at the time
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:26 PM
Oct 2015

I found this link to a Guardian article in my files.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,649917,00.html

14 February 2002

The Pentagon and the CIA have begun preparations for an assault on Iraq involving up to 200,000 US troops that is likely to be launched later this year with the aim of removing Saddam Hussein from power, US and diplomatic sources told the Guardian yesterday.

President George Bush's war cabinet, known as the "principals committee", agreed at a pivotal meeting in late January that the policy of containment has failed and that active steps should be taken to topple the Iraqi leader. . . .

France, Germany and others in the European Union have been queuing up to make clear to Mr Bush that they will not support him in military action against Iraq. The German foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, this week joined the French foreign minister, Hubert Védrine, in expressing publicly his concern about US policy towards Iraq.

But Tony Blair and the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, have refused to join the public outcry. A Foreign Office official said yesterday that military action was not imminent, but would be "a question of months".

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
10. I thought for a nanosecond...
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:36 PM
Oct 2015

that the Brits would nail Blair's ass to the wall...only a brain blip on my part...

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
21. Memo was included in Mrs. Clinton's 30,000 emails.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:11 AM
Oct 2015

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

On her private server!
Wow! The implications there!

So, she knew?!

This get juicer and juicer. But NOTHING will come of it. However, wouldn't it be lovely if this was brought up in the rethugian hearings regarding her emails. Of course, it would be in the closed door talks.


Edited to add--- What will we hear from the American press on this?
Dead silence.


cprise

(8,445 posts)
27. Wow - I wonder if they rubber off on her
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:35 AM
Oct 2015

Bush neoconservatives forming bipartisan alliance: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141236463#post23

Maybe she didn't have the email back when she voted on IWR?

Does anyone know?

.

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
25. And Dr. Kelly didn't commit suicide.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:28 AM
Oct 2015

I hope I live long enough to see these criminals convicted of half the crimes they committed.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
31. Republicans Just Ignore - Ignore - Ignore
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:48 AM
Oct 2015

If it was Al Gore that ignored all those warnings, and looked the other way so 9/11 could happen, the Republicans would have hung him on the White House lawn.

Republicans don't care how evil or scummy and action is, if it a Republican doing it.

Denying climate change.

Cutting food stamps.

Trying to gut Social Security.

Lying about WMD's and everything else.

The list goes on for miles......

GOD I HATE REPUBLICANS

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
43. This is a jumbled excerp from a book I'm browsing, it explains much.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:59 AM
Oct 2015

Children who have suffered
developmentally destructive experiences in their early years may be more
predisposed to react violen
tly when provoked, because
such experiences
prevent
the development of
healthy notions of reciprocal behavior
, and can
contribute to psychopathological behavior and destructive relationships. The
experiences affect the way these children (and
,
later
,
adult
s) deal with
shame,
empathy, rage and aggression.
In particular, people who have been subjected to
rigid, autocratic, and unfair standards of child rearing, or to childhood abuse,
seem to be more likely to seek to exact revenge for past injuries and injust
ices.
S
hame seems to play a vital role

the more individual
s
feel shame, the more
likely they are to become angry, hold malevolent intentions, and incline towards
revenge


The Art Of Forgiveness: Differentiating Transformational Leaders

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
44. WTF?
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
Oct 2015

Anyone who loves America hates everything having to do with the Republican Party.

Analyze that......

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
46. Haha. I can see how you misinterpreted that.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 11:50 AM
Oct 2015

I should have explained what I was talking about.

In general, I see the republican party as one comprised of damaged children; Vengeance, lack of empathy, authoritarianism, selfishness, and pretty much everything that makes a human bad.


 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
47. I Know My Anger Is Justified
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:35 PM
Oct 2015

Republicans are destroying my country to stay in power.

I am beyond angry.

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
60. Gregorian was only trying to explain WHY
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:29 PM
Oct 2015

Most all republicans are such non-caring @ssholes. Most all of them had and are authoritarian parents, handing down the sickness generation after generation.

This doesn't mean that we need to overlook them, nor even forgive them. Indeed, they have and are destroying everything. Fuck them. (a bit of a catch 22.)

Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
50. Interesting theory
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:11 PM
Oct 2015

Gandhi said that he had seen children "overcome an evil inheritance," and he attributed that to purity being a natural attribute of human beings.

It's interesting how things like homophobia and sexism get passed down through families, and how ardently supportive of "family values" those twisted CONs are.

No doubt many of them have deeply wounded inner children. The question that remains unanswered: is there enough purity in the world to teach them to love themselves and others? What will it take to replace their hatred with understanding and compassion?

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
54. It's natural to forgive.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:35 PM
Oct 2015

That's what I see in nature. There are no longstanding ruminations. The adrenaline pumps, and then it's over.

That is my experience, at least. I saved a crow which now lives near me. He found a "wife", and they had a child. While watching the child grow up, it suddenly disappeared. Crows don't chase their young away. They weren't mourning. However, crows do possess keen memory. And they send messages down through generations. Like "beware of humans, they launch stuff at us". Sure enough, I killed a wild turkey one day, that was full of vermin, to relieve it of it's misery, and the one time my crows went crazy was then. If I hold anything, they are uncomfortable.

My belief is that experiences change our DNA. That then gets passed through to the future generations. My grandmother was a wealthy child who had to leave Turkey during the genocide. She left riches to live a life of poverty, among other horrors. My dad had that as his platform in life, gazing in at his mother having an operation on the kitchen table shortly after his dad had died. I got some real shit to deal with. This is why the crows do so well. They're living in the present moment. The past is remembered for important things, and next year they'll build a nest and have another baby. The future doesn't exist except in some instinctual way, for them. Our genes play a role in how big a hill we have to climb in order to become present, without the judgement and baggage.

I call it "balanced". I said it here before, and didn't get much response. Jimmy Carter is balanced. George Bush is not balanced. Jimmy has empathy. It's not all about him. George was a mess in college, wrecking at least one apartment, and splitting, and numerous blunders afterward, including wars that cost the world dearly.

I don't know, I feel strongly about this because not only have I gone through it, but it seems like the one thing that can easily change the world. I know there are many out there who share this, Gandhi being one.

This is also why I believe we should have potential representatives take tests that effectively measure their levels of empathy, and balance. These tests exist, and are used. As it stands, we've got a majority of people in office who shouldn't even be there.

I used to question these thoughts, but the longer I live the more reinforcement they seem to get. Healthy people, and a healthy society. That should be the bottom line.

Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
62. Balance, my friend, is always a matter of perspective.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:43 PM
Oct 2015

Everything is relative to everything else. We measure our own responses by what our society and culture determine to be acceptable, for example.

Your crow story is interesting. I have read, BTW, that crows are very perceptive, and that they remember the faces of humans who have helped or hurt them.

Bringing real, meaningful balance to America will require a shift towards the left that will present nothing less than a revolution . . . Real balance. Now THERE is an American Dream!

But mostly I agree with you. There are many successful sociopaths who are gainfully employed as CEO's of well-known corporations, BTW. Exxon's, for example, knew of global warming in the 1970's but decided not to "alarm" the public. And we have too many CEO's/Business-People/Professional Sociopaths in Congress.

Some might argue that Mother Nature is not forgiving at all: that Her homeostasis maintains the law of physics requiring for every action, an equal, opposite reaction. Some would call that karma. But forgiveness is always for the self, as none of us are truly fit to sit in judgment of another person: only in judgment of someone's actions.

Releasing those inner, wounded children can be a matter of forgiving ourselves for not being able to be what our own parents wanted us to be. I know this, as I was a child of emotional abuse and neglect, myself. And I've been liberal since I was old enough to know the meaning of the word.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
79. We forgive ourselves for not being present. We forgive ourselves for believing we are separate.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 08:41 PM
Oct 2015

We forgive ourselves for not staying in our hearts. We forgive ourselves for not seeing ourselves and others as divine.

Thank you Utopian Leftist and Gregorian for bringing us back to what is real.

I too had abusive conservative parents and have connected with liberal since I can remember.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
66. "What will it take to replace their hatred with understanding and compassion?"
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 04:14 PM
Oct 2015

When it shows on a balance sheet.

 

Lychee2

(405 posts)
39. Another secret document relating to national security on her insecure server.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 03:43 AM
Oct 2015

I wonder how many more of these they will have to find before someone arrests her.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense,

(1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or

(2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

4139

(1,893 posts)
52. Yep; what is everyone cheering about?! This document is bad news...
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:29 PM
Oct 2015

Who sent it to Hillary and did Hillary send it to anyone? The article doesn't say...but will likely be the news some time soon.


Duppers

(28,094 posts)
70. "someone arrests her"?
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 05:16 PM
Oct 2015

Then the American press would have to cover these documents damaging BushJr. Will that happen?


Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
41. Jeb Bush was 'in the bushcheneny loop'. bush lied to 'the people' &everyone outside 'the loop'
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:00 AM
Oct 2015

People always bring up Mrs.Clintons 'vote', she was lied to as well!

Look at the "investments" back in those times. Cheney leading the charge for billions in federal funds for war 'for profits'. Jeb Bush leading the real estate charge to build a real estate/mortgage bubble using more Federal money.

And their entire 'empire' raping OUR PUBLIC LANDS with 'almost free leases' for our resources.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
45. FFS, it was all laid out in the PNAC papers YEARS before the invasion.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 11:41 AM
Oct 2015

It was going to happen, and SCOTUS made it happen.

Bubzer

(4,211 posts)
48. I realy realy want to accept this as news, but I just can't.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 01:04 PM
Oct 2015

Dailymail is a tabloid source. Do you happen to have any other more legitimate sources?
Please tell me you do.

 

Miigwech

(3,741 posts)
67. Surprise!!!!!
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 04:30 PM
Oct 2015

Despicable, vileness .... Bush Cheney lied and should be in prison along with Blair. It ain't ever going to happen but the truth needs to be yelled out form every place, for the sake of history.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
71. Too bad she didn't tell the world about this when she first got the email.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 07:38 PM
Oct 2015

Instead, she's just been saying her vote to give them that war was a vague "mistake", and continued playing along with their lie.

We're being played. Still.

rockfordfile

(8,682 posts)
74. If she is the Democratic nominee
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 08:05 PM
Oct 2015

If she is the Democratic nominee, then I will voted for Clinton. If it's Sanders, then I would vote for him.

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