Sun May 13, 2012, 07:24 PM
Judi Lynn (77,618 posts)
Billionaire Facebook founder 'de-friends' United States to keep more of his fortune
Source: Independent
Billionaire Facebook founder 'de-friends' United States to keep more of his fortune As Obama plans taxes on super-rich, Eduardo Saverin applies to give up citizenship Guy Adams Los Angeles Monday 14 May 2012 In the argot of social networking, America has been "de-friended". Days shy of Facebook's stratospherically hyped stock market listing, one of the firm's bright young founders has sparked outrage after deciding to renounce his US citizenship. Eduardo Saverin, a 30-year-old entrepreneur who helped Mark Zuckerberg launch the site from a Harvard dormitory just eight years ago, appears on a list of 1,780 once-proud citizens who last year told Uncle Sam that they would like to give up their passports. The move, which emerged over the weekend, is widely regarded as a tax dodge. Mr Saverin's 4 per cent stake in Facebook will put his net worth in the region of $4bn (£2.5bn) when the company floats on Thursday. Though liable for back taxes, he will be exempt from future demands on his cash pile, including Barack Obama's mooted levy on high-earners. A spokesman confirmed Mr Saverin decided to change nationality in September, which means his previous capital gains will be calculated based on Facebook's perceived value at that time. Had he waited until the float, the firm would have been more easily valued, leaving less leeway for creative accounting. "Eduardo recently found it more practical to become a resident of Singapore since he plans to live there for an indefinite period of time," said the spokesman in a statement, which ignored the tax implications of the move, stating that it "made sense" as he plans to devote the coming years to investing in Asian markets. The decision has sparked criticism because of the perceived debt he owes the country where he made his fortune. Born in Brazil, he immigrated to Florida in 1992 after his wealthy parents appeared on a list of kidnap targets held by criminal gangs in their native Sao Paolo. Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/billionaire-facebook-founder-defriends-united-states-to-keep-more-of-his-fortune-7743506.html
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79 replies, 9523 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| Judi Lynn | May 2012 | OP | |
| Bennyboy | May 2012 | #1 | |
| Roland99 | May 2012 | #57 | |
| keroro gunsou | May 2012 | #2 | |
| JHB | May 2012 | #7 | |
| provis99 | May 2012 | #8 | |
| xchrom | May 2012 | #3 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #4 | |
| xchrom | May 2012 | #6 | |
| tinrobot | May 2012 | #19 | |
| KamaAina | May 2012 | #10 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #12 | |
| Flatulo | May 2012 | #15 | |
| MADem | May 2012 | #26 | |
| DBoon | May 2012 | #33 | |
| MADem | May 2012 | #34 | |
| AverageJoe90 | May 2012 | #24 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #50 | |
| allan01 | May 2012 | #5 | |
| KamaAina | May 2012 | #9 | |
| TheDebbieDee | May 2012 | #11 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #13 | |
| Hassin Bin Sober | May 2012 | #44 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #53 | |
| mainer | May 2012 | #77 | |
| former9thward | May 2012 | #78 | |
| naaman fletcher | May 2012 | #25 | |
| mainer | May 2012 | #65 | |
| proud2BlibKansan | May 2012 | #14 | |
| happerbolic | May 2012 | #18 | |
| SomeGuyInEagan | May 2012 | #52 | |
| truthisfreedom | May 2012 | #16 | |
| happerbolic | May 2012 | #20 | |
| christx30 | May 2012 | #76 | |
| cosmicone | May 2012 | #22 | |
| iamthebandfanman | May 2012 | #38 | |
| Starry Messenger | May 2012 | #31 | |
| iamthebandfanman | May 2012 | #39 | |
| bluedigger | May 2012 | #46 | |
| Fastcars | May 2012 | #17 | |
| harmonicon | May 2012 | #35 | |
| treestar | May 2012 | #74 | |
| jwirr | May 2012 | #21 | |
| onenote | May 2012 | #43 | |
| jwirr | May 2012 | #51 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #23 | |
| patrice | May 2012 | #27 | |
| Sarah Ibarruri | May 2012 | #28 | |
| harmonicon | May 2012 | #36 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #37 | |
| bluedigger | May 2012 | #48 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #49 | |
| bluedigger | May 2012 | #54 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #55 | |
| Sarah Ibarruri | May 2012 | #41 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #47 | |
| Sarah Ibarruri | May 2012 | #61 | |
| harmonicon | May 2012 | #56 | |
| MindMover | May 2012 | #58 | |
| harmonicon | May 2012 | #59 | |
| Sarah Ibarruri | May 2012 | #60 | |
| harmonicon | May 2012 | #62 | |
| lonestarnot | May 2012 | #29 | |
| Kolesar | May 2012 | #40 | |
| lonestarnot | May 2012 | #63 | |
| Lasher | May 2012 | #30 | |
| truthisfreedom | May 2012 | #32 | |
| sofa king | May 2012 | #42 | |
| mainer | May 2012 | #64 | |
| sofa king | May 2012 | #67 | |
| Blue_Tires | May 2012 | #70 | |
| Thrill | May 2012 | #45 | |
| jmowreader | May 2012 | #66 | |
| SoCalDemGrrl | May 2012 | #68 | |
| Prometheus Bound | May 2012 | #69 | |
| Blue_Tires | May 2012 | #71 | |
| SoCalDemGrrl | May 2012 | #72 | |
| Prometheus Bound | May 2012 | #73 | |
| Prometheus Bound | May 2012 | #79 | |
| treestar | May 2012 | #75 |
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:27 PM
Bennyboy (9,046 posts)
1. Un American asshole.
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Fucking traitor if you ask me.
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Response to Bennyboy (Reply #1)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:02 PM
Roland99 (36,501 posts)
57. Born in Brazil. Resides in Singapore.
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hmmmm
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:33 PM
keroro gunsou (1,928 posts)
2. on the plus side...
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now that he's no longer a citizen, he can't vote in elections. he strikes me as a typical "i've got mine, so FU," type of person. probably a republican too... but don't quote me on that....
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Response to keroro gunsou (Reply #2)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:13 PM
JHB (17,808 posts)
7. Oh, he can still vote with his dollars...
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...until we can change that.
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Response to keroro gunsou (Reply #2)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:14 PM
provis99 (13,062 posts)
8. but he can still give millions to SuperPACS.
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and that counts more for an election than a single vote.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:38 PM
xchrom (90,597 posts)
3. Shrug.. That's up to him.
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I'm guessing he's got a or several residences here that he pays taxes on.
And you know what? Singapore ain't California or NY. |
Response to xchrom (Reply #3)
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:54 PM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
4. Not being a citizen does not stop him from traveling here.
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Or even owning residences here if he wants. But the story is that he has not been in the U.S. for some time now. I am not sure if you were slamming Singapore or not. I have been there several times and it is nicer than most of CA or NY.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #4)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:11 PM
xchrom (90,597 posts)
6. My point is that in a global world of monied influence
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Very little beats California or NY.
If you want consistent contact w/ the global players - you're here. |
Response to xchrom (Reply #6)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:41 PM
tinrobot (5,609 posts)
19. Not exactly... London and Tokyo come to mind.
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Regardless, I doubt that he's interested in hanging with the global players.
He's already made his billions. Time to go play. |
Response to former9thward (Reply #4)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:35 PM
KamaAina (45,243 posts)
10. Singapore is "nicer" than CA or NY?
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As in, less chewing gum on the sidewalks? That's punishable there BY LAW! Srsly. Chewing gum! (Don't even get me started on the smelly durian fruit.
Or, fewer messy protests clogging up the streets? Again, punishable BY LAW! No First Amendment there. |
Response to KamaAina (Reply #10)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:54 PM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
12. I am not aware of any country that has a First Amendment.
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At least none that I have been to and I have been to 41 so far. It is for that reason I prefer living in the U.S. to anyplace else. Maybe if I was not interested in politics it would not be a priority. I think most people like living in a society which is clean. Most people do. Don't you? They have a different culture than we do so it might be hard to live there full time I don't know.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #10)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:23 PM
Flatulo (3,962 posts)
15. Singapore is an odd place
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The citizens are extremely well educated and civil, but the punishments for even the mildest infractions are quite severe. That seems to be an Asian thing - trading civil liberties for order and full employment. It would not work well here at all, IMO.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #10)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:59 PM
MADem (86,068 posts)
26. Awww, what's the occasional caning between friends?
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I think he's pretty shallow, actually.
He had an idea and his idea made him some money. He hasn't done anything to actually EARN the money he is making now--he's just living off the interest. It would serve him right if the place got even more Draconian after he settled in there...! |
Response to MADem (Reply #26)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:50 AM
DBoon (12,253 posts)
33. I believe caning for graffiti is because it is a *political* crime
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The media is tightly controlled for "acceptable" expression of views.
Opinions not suitable for the controlled media tend to be expressed via spray-painted slogans. graffiti is punished severely not because it is vandalism but because it is an unauthorized and uncontrolled method of expressing political opinion |
Response to DBoon (Reply #33)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:59 AM
MADem (86,068 posts)
34. I thought they caned for chewing gum, too!
Response to former9thward (Reply #4)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:30 PM
AverageJoe90 (5,357 posts)
24. Singapore may look nice in spots......
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But sadly, in all reality, what the tourists usually don't get to see is that it's a highly corrupt hellhole mostly run by fascist dickheads and unscrupulous CEOs looking to punch their way to the top no matter who gets hurt. Oh, and did you know that old school British-style corporal punishment is still perfectly acceptable for minor infractions over there? It's kinda like Mainland China but without the faux-Marxist cover story.
I just have a feeling that he's going to regret moving there.......and I betcha within a few years he'll be running back to the U.S. begging to get his citizenship back. The other poster may not be slamming Singapore, but I am, and for a damn good reason(I do hope you realize, though, that this is directed at the elite and the government of that nation, and not its citizens). |
Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #24)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
50. But a billionaire is not going to be concerned with the points you raise in the post.
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He was born in Singapore and has lived there for many years. If he does want to come back to the U.S. he does not need citizenship to do so. Plenty of foreign wealthy people live in the U.S. without citizenship.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:07 PM
allan01 (628 posts)
5. re:Billionaire Facebook founder 'de-friends' United States to keep more of his fortune
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Last edited Sun May 13, 2012, 08:09 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) so long, theres the door . dont let it hit u in the rear as you exit.taxes are the price of civilization.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:31 PM
KamaAina (45,243 posts)
9. Why does he hate America so much?
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More to the point, why does he hate California so much? We just dug ourselves an extra $7 billion, with a B, of budget hole, and this worthless shitball dodges our taxes along with his federal ones?? After all, all we did was provide the business and intellectual climate where, unlike anywhere else on the planet, he could make those billions in the first place.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 08:45 PM
TheDebbieDee (8,377 posts)
11. No matter which developed country he decides to grace with his citizenship.......
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Mr. Severin will wind up paying more in taxes there than he would to the US. The US has the lowest tax rate for wealthy people than any other developed/civilized(?) country in the world, right?
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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #11)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:02 PM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
13. It depends on your definition of 'developed/civilized'. The U.S. rate is fairly high.
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This individual lives in Singapore where the highest rate is 20%. Ours is about 39% not counting state or local income taxes.
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Response to former9thward (Reply #13)
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:44 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (8,617 posts)
44. Our top rate is 35% and no super wealthy person pays anywhere near that. Especially ...
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.... someone, like Saverin, who earns based on cap gains and/or dividends (15%).
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #44)
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:07 AM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
53. You are somewhat outdated.
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Next year's top rate will be 43.4%. When you factor in state income taxes it will be over 50%. I suspect Saverin's tax advisers know more about his situation than you do. The poster I was replying to raised the question whether the U.S. had a low rate. There are a lot of countries with lower top rates. http://www.gfc.com/pdf/GFFA/2011-12-21_Insights_on_Income_Tax_Rates_to_Soar_by_2013.pdf
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Response to former9thward (Reply #53)
Sun May 20, 2012, 11:23 AM
mainer (6,663 posts)
77. I was not aware of this.
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So in 2013, we're back to Clinton-era rates for the highest earners.
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Response to mainer (Reply #77)
Sun May 20, 2012, 03:41 PM
former9thward (6,404 posts)
78. Actually a bit more than that.
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The Health care law added a 3.6% (I may be off one or two tenths of a percent) medicare tax on high end incomes (I think above 250k). So it will be that much higher. This of course assumes two things. One that Obama and congress actually let the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire and two that the Supreme Court does not strike down the entire health care law.
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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #11)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:58 PM
naaman fletcher (6,839 posts)
25. Not at all
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Most other countries don't tax you on your offshore income. So, for example, if you are an Itaiian resident you have massive taxes... unless you made that money in another country, and you pay zero on it.
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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #11)
Wed May 16, 2012, 06:36 PM
mainer (6,663 posts)
65. But the US won't give him health care.
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He's probably better off abroad. Where he won't have to foot the bill for any stupid wars.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:09 PM
proud2BlibKansan (96,376 posts)
14. Scumbag
Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:41 PM
happerbolic (140 posts)
18. May the future pat-downs of a 1000...
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...TSA Security measures be placed on this miserable soul everytime he lays foot on this soil! Ethical terrorist to all that is Decent
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Response to happerbolic (Reply #18)
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:04 AM
SomeGuyInEagan (1,137 posts)
52. The TSA is for the common people ... not the "Job Creator" class ...
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... or whatever euphemism those douche bags are using for the ultra-wealthy these days.
(P.S. - I love that two variations for "douche bag" appears in the DU online spell check) |
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:36 PM
truthisfreedom (17,677 posts)
16. More power to him. I'm sure his tax people told him his options and he went with the one that makes
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the most logical sense.
Despite the protestations I see in this thread, I know that every single one of you makes sure you pay the absolute minimum tax. Don't pretend you're any better than he is. If you want to dump a bunch of extra money into the federal coffers just to watch it be used to burn little children to death or blow up their innocent parents, be my guest. |
Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #16)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:54 PM
happerbolic (140 posts)
20. Because it's always just too easy...
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... to pitch away something which is broken rather than taking a more ethical path toward fixing it.
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Response to happerbolic (Reply #20)
Sun May 20, 2012, 11:05 AM
christx30 (1,171 posts)
76. If you felt
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things got bad enough, you'd bolt too. We all would. He just has the means to do it. Our government can't even come up with a budget. How long has it been? A year? More? Besides. He's one man, in business, not government. He can't change a damn thing. I'm sure a part of him is like, "Call me when you get your shit together."
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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #16)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:26 PM
cosmicone (3,381 posts)
22. +1,000,000
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We will all do the same thing if we were in his shoes, knowing that others would hate us for it. The instinct to feather one's own nest is far stronger than any polyannish thoughts. We just envy that he is in a position to be able to do such a despicable thing.
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Response to cosmicone (Reply #22)
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:41 AM
iamthebandfanman (6,744 posts)
38. unfortunately
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some of us around here practice what we preach..
so maybe not use such broad brushes in the future when speaking for 'all' of us jealous folks. |
Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #16)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:16 AM
Starry Messenger (21,463 posts)
31. Oh please.
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Every dime he has was from people who worked *for* him and the company that brought him wealth. Every dime he takes away from US coffers will mean more people who get less support when companies like Facebook start slashing the workforce.
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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #16)
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:46 AM
iamthebandfanman (6,744 posts)
39. Youre right.
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Last edited Mon May 14, 2012, 05:47 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) We arent billionaires. We dont have 'extra' cash that we dont use to LIVE on daily to give up so freely. So yes, most of us do probably attempt to pay the least we can get away with.
Whats his excuse? Id gladly pay more in taxes if I had his wealth. Id still be rich, regardless. Unfortunately, some of us around here do practice what we preach (especially when given the ability to do so) .. Sorry, some of us ARE better than him. Maybe you need to do some soul searching, maybe youre speaking for yourself.. but 'dont pretend' to speak for all of us. |
Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #16)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:32 AM
bluedigger (10,579 posts)
46. You know wrong.
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And that is the truth.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 09:37 PM
Fastcars (163 posts)
17. It Seems His U.S. Citizenship Was More A Convenience
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"Born in Brazil, he immigrated to Florida in 1992..." The move to the U.S. appears to have been because the Brazilian government couldn't ensure his parent's safety. Why would you expect him to have any deep loyalty to the U.S.?
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Response to Fastcars (Reply #17)
Mon May 14, 2012, 01:19 AM
harmonicon (11,937 posts)
35. shhhh!!! (you're making sense!! don't do that!! they'll hear you!!)
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Threads like this come up from time to time and people always foam at the mouth and rant and rave for no good reason. I'm just glad to say that, having never used facebook, this guy's not made a dime off of me.
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Response to Fastcars (Reply #17)
Sun May 20, 2012, 08:30 AM
treestar (40,489 posts)
74. Maybe we should make it more difficult to obtain
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And there are people who want to come and be citizens of the US - why did we grant it to someone who just thought of it as a convenience?
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:15 PM
jwirr (20,912 posts)
21. Are those of us who are on FB able to distance ourselves from the site? In other words can we quit?
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He is obviously not a patriotic American.
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Response to jwirr (Reply #21)
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:29 AM
onenote (22,015 posts)
43. He also isn't involved with FB anymore, other than as a minority shareholder
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I'm not defending him or, for that matter, FB. But there seems to be a lot of confusion here about Saverin's role in FB. He was involved at the beginning, but he got squeezed out. Litigation between Saverin and FB resulted in his getting to maintain the title "co-founder" and, while he owns around 5 percent of the company, he is not an officer, director, or otherwise involved in the company's operations at this point (from what I've been able to determine).
So, while there may be reasons to quit FB, I'm not sure that this guy's actions are a particularly compelling reason. |
Response to onenote (Reply #43)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:59 AM
jwirr (20,912 posts)
51. Thank you. My whole family is on it so we can communicate and send photos. I would have hated
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to quit.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:30 PM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
23. Inequality, corruption, social inequities abound in Singapore....
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Last edited Sun May 13, 2012, 10:30 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) It is a lovely place for the likes of this greedy bastard......good riddance....
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/12/23/singapores-inequality-battle/ |
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 11:27 PM
patrice (47,384 posts)
27. What do you want to bet he'd sure as fucking hell use his billions to get our troops into WAR if
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it suited his and his allies' financial interests.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 11:29 PM
Sarah Ibarruri (18,667 posts)
28. The rich have no country, no allegiance, and don't like being citizens
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They're just trash.
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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #28)
Mon May 14, 2012, 01:25 AM
harmonicon (11,937 posts)
36. And what about the poor with no country and no allegiance? Are they trash too?
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I should be loyal to the US because I'm a US citizen by accident of birth? Fuck that. I think everyone should be able to live where ever they want if it's in their means and power to do so. I care deeply about the US because it is where I was born, it is where I'm a citizen, and so it's where I vote. I care about my vote in the US because I have it. I care about the government in the US because that's the one that's been entrusted to me to have a small bit of responsibility for. I do not care about it for the sake of allegiance. In fact, the idea of having loyalty or allegiance to a country sickens me. I'm loyal to what I feel is just, true, and right in the world.
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Response to harmonicon (Reply #36)
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:33 AM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
37. Ok, lets take FB and its being worth a 100 Billion +.....why....
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because of its subscribers, that is why.....and each of its subscribers should be a shareholder and we should have a say in who gets paid and how much and have all the rights that shareholders have of any other corporation....
and when one of the people who admittedly put this together and should get some compensation for that work say 10-20 %, but instead takes billions to another country, and you say that is just, true and right in this world....I say you are wrong..... |
Response to MindMover (Reply #37)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:44 AM
bluedigger (10,579 posts)
48. I'm not sure why subscribers should have the rights of shareholders.
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The only thing I have contributed is some personal content, for which I have received some social contact with friends and associates that I find a fair trade. I have contributed nothing of monetary value, and bear no financial risk in the enterprise's success or failure.
By those standards, as a proud member of Red Sox Nation I should be able to influence Red Sox management to place Beckett on waivers right _______ now, but I cannot. |
Response to bluedigger (Reply #48)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:49 AM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
49. If you and I and all 800-900 million FB subscribers were to cancel our accounts....
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what value would FB have....?
and yes, all professional sports teams should and will be owned by the public in the new paradigm.... |
Response to MindMover (Reply #49)
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:08 AM
bluedigger (10,579 posts)
54. That's a good argument for the power of the consumer in the marketplace.
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As the makers of pink slime have discovered. But it still doesn't allow me to participate in management of the enterprise. I have more skin in the game here at DU, with it's pay to play scheme. When is our board meeting?
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Response to bluedigger (Reply #54)
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:29 AM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
55. Every time you vote in the jury, you participate in management of the enterprise....
Response to harmonicon (Reply #36)
Mon May 14, 2012, 08:58 AM
Sarah Ibarruri (18,667 posts)
41. I'm not entirely sure you understood what I meant, or that I explained myself thoroughly
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Last edited Mon May 14, 2012, 08:59 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) What I meant was that THE RICH do not have citizenship, do not feel any sort of bond toward the people of their country, and don't care a RAT's ASS what happens to the people of the country.
What I meant was that they will suck the life blood out of the country they do business in, they will steal from the people of that country, and will move their headquarters wherever they frikkin' want. They'll also move wherever they feel like, and never look back. In other words, the mega-rich and corporations have no country, and are not citizens of any country because they're greedy shitheads who live for absorbing wealth from wherever they can do so. |
Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #41)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:43 AM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
47. So true and very well said....thank you....
Response to MindMover (Reply #47)
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:08 PM
Sarah Ibarruri (18,667 posts)
61. You're welcome. nt
Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #41)
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:36 AM
harmonicon (11,937 posts)
56. Well, you'll find no argument with me there, but I don't think blaming the rich will solve things.
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It's capitalism that's at fault. It's the economic systems supported and managed by governments which are nominally put in place by people like you and I that make their accumulation of wealth possible. The wealthy aren't the problem - they're just a symptom of it.
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Response to harmonicon (Reply #56)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:09 PM
MindMover (2,798 posts)
58. True, so the problem is not wealth per se......or its accumulation...
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it is the economic system ....
So the ginormous question being asked today....... More regulation or Less regulation....? Democrat or Republican...? Or is there a much larger question dealing with the human greed factor..... |
Response to MindMover (Reply #58)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:46 PM
harmonicon (11,937 posts)
59. It's not about more or less regulation, but what regulation.
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Same for taxes and wages - not necessarily more or less, but what, and why?
We have the power in the world to see to it that no one lives in poverty, everyone has access to quality healthcare, everyone could eat nutritious meals, etc. but we don't do it. More regulation won't help if they're the wrong regulations. Some of the regulations in place now are hurting more than helping, but that doesn't mean that less regulation as a rule is better. I just know that basing things on greed and selfishness won't help. |
Response to harmonicon (Reply #56)
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:07 PM
Sarah Ibarruri (18,667 posts)
60. Why wouldn't it? Ignoring the problem and not mentioning it, will continue to leave the problem in
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place.
And yes, I agree that capitalism is at fault. The selling of capitalism is the biggest propaganda campaign I know of. Capitalism is an economic ideal that allows the stronger and richer to control the rest. That's all it is. |
Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #60)
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:25 PM
harmonicon (11,937 posts)
62. So complain about capitalism, not the wealthy.
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If every rich person today died in a freak accident, they'd be replaced soon enough. That's how capitalism operates - it's part of the system. I get bothered when people are upset for the rich not "giving back" or something when they aren't being taxed equally already. We can't legislate greed, but we can legislate fair taxes. There are some rich folks with a sense of equity who liked to be taxed more, but they're outweighed by those who would pay less and have the finances to make that happen.
Instead of slagging off the rich, how about we work to have publicly funded elections, instant runoff voting, universal healthcare, etc. All of those things would significantly limit the influence of wealth, and likely, the equitable distribution of wealth. It's fine and dandy to point out the outlandish behaviour of the rich, but it's not going to fix things - they're a product of the same system as those doing the pointing. Now, who's going to fix it? |
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Sun May 13, 2012, 11:43 PM
lonestarnot (71,135 posts)
29. Let the swing'n dick get the fuck out to Singapore. Have a nice life fuckwad, but freeze what he
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Last edited Sun May 13, 2012, 11:44 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) owes the country that made him a Richie Rich. Oh and on edit, never come the fuck back! Not ever!
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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #29)
Mon May 14, 2012, 06:07 AM
Kolesar (29,329 posts)
40. And the USA will send aircraft carriers to protect his little one-party state ... eom
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:15 AM
Lasher (20,476 posts)
30. Just one more reason I'm glad I never signed up to Facebook.
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:35 AM
truthisfreedom (17,677 posts)
32. THe question begs... why have loyalty to a country whose government ceases to have loyalty to you?
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Unless the US gets its shit together, we'll see this accelerate at an exponential rate.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:22 AM
sofa king (8,704 posts)
42. That. Is. AWESOME!
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I've argued for years that the most important thing a tax hike on the rich will do is to remove hundreds or thousands of the greedy rich people who fucked this country up. They don't give a damn about this country and, being the good vulture capitalists they are, will descend upon some other place that charges them less, and fuck up that place instead.
This guy still has to pay people to oversee his possessions and properties here, but he can't vote and can't donate to political campaigns. The nearly useless "trickle-down" his vampiric existence produced never stops while the person's powerful potential political influence is (potentially) reduced. |
Response to sofa king (Reply #42)
Wed May 16, 2012, 06:34 PM
mainer (6,663 posts)
64. I don't think he has any possession or properties in the US
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He got out of Facebook (or rather, was forced out) and will merely profit when it goes IPO.
A guy who's born in Brazil, who doesn't live in the US -- and hasn't lived in the US for a long time, from what I gather -- doesn't really feel he owes the US anything. And as for voting? Sheesh, when so many Americans don't even vote, that's how valuable most Americans think their vote is. |
Response to mainer (Reply #64)
Thu May 17, 2012, 03:01 PM
sofa king (8,704 posts)
67. Then it seems he has every reason to take his toys and leave.
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He's the one that gets reported. Behind him are a hundred other people just like him who have already seen the writing on the wall: they're not going to buy this election, and paying a fair share is going to cost them dearly.
And that is the full extent of their patriotism: they're Americans while they can feed on us. When they have to give back, they leave. It is long since time for them to go steal the future of some other hardworking nation. |
Response to mainer (Reply #64)
Fri May 18, 2012, 08:40 AM
Blue_Tires (31,731 posts)
70. Well then he should have ditched citizenship awhile ago...
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To do it right before the billions come in just looks bad and he deserves to be run through the ringer for it
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:24 AM
Thrill (16,951 posts)
45. Good enough to take American money
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Last edited Mon May 14, 2012, 10:25 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) But too good to pay American Taxes. This is the worst kind of Rich person
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Thu May 17, 2012, 02:20 AM
jmowreader (23,935 posts)
66. I don't really believe this guy is going to be worth $4b for long
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We are currently talking about the ultimate paper billionaire: he owns four percent of a currently-privately-held corporation. When the company DOES go public, he will retain his wealth as long as Facebook's market cap remains high.
Now, this Facebook: this is the website that makes money by selling its users' private information to advertisers. This means when the Internet-using public finally decides it's had enough of Mark Zuckerberg's shit, Saverin will NOT be a paper billionaire. He will probably be a paper thousandaire. |
Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Fri May 18, 2012, 02:43 AM
SoCalDemGrrl (835 posts)
68. What a sleezebag! I like what Schumer proposed today for people like this...
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Go ahead and renounce your citizenship. but you still pay US taxes on ALL income earned here and you cannot ENTER THE U.S. again.
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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)
Fri May 18, 2012, 03:27 AM
Prometheus Bound (3,489 posts)
69. Singapore is ranked the best place in the world to do business. The US is 15th.
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Since he wants to invest in Asian markets, Singapore or Hong Kong (usually ranked 2nd) is the place to be.
http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11671839 |
Response to Prometheus Bound (Reply #69)
Fri May 18, 2012, 08:48 AM
Blue_Tires (31,731 posts)
71. He's already wealthy, and gonna be worth $4 billion more
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He doesn't have to work another day in his life...What "business" does he need to conduct other than living large?
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Response to Prometheus Bound (Reply #69)
Sun May 20, 2012, 03:05 AM
SoCalDemGrrl (835 posts)
72. OK Prometheus- so Singapore is the best place to invest-but HE MADE HIS $$$$$$ in the U.S. & wants
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Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 03:06 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) to avoid U.S. taxes - that is FU**ed up!!!! He needs to the pay piper that PAYED HIM!!!!
The U.S. economic system allowed him to prosper beyond the norm and it is IMMORAL to duck U.S. taxes. By being a resident of the United States he was able to be a participant of FACEBOOK. If he had been a resident of Singapore during Facebook's formative years - HE'D BE SHIT OUT OF LUCK LIKE THE REST OF US!!!! His U.S. residency was MATERIAL TO HIS SUCCESS AND HE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO AVOID THAT. |
Response to SoCalDemGrrl (Reply #72)
Sun May 20, 2012, 04:46 AM
Prometheus Bound (3,489 posts)
73. Don't worry, he can't avoid paying his taxes.
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As I understand it he has to pay tax on his Facebook shares. So I don't see what the problem is.
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Response to SoCalDemGrrl (Reply #72)
Sun May 20, 2012, 09:17 PM
Prometheus Bound (3,489 posts)
79. Facebook has a lot more Asian users than American, and Asian users are growing while US is flat.
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232 million European users
195 million Asian 173 million North American, about 18 million of which are Canadian. http://www.internetworldstats.com/facebook.htm |
Response to Prometheus Bound (Reply #69)
Sun May 20, 2012, 08:32 AM
treestar (40,489 posts)
75. One never knows that the governments in a country like that will do
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So it is a bit of a gamble. They could decide they're going to take all of his property. In that country, at least.
So here we have the rule of law, and that's a good thing for someone like him. On some level, he's dumb. |

