Steelers James Harrison Thinks Kids Participation Trophies Are Worthless, Sets Off National Debate
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Source: The Washington Post August 16 at 4:12 PM EST
Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison has never been shy about delivering big hits, whether he’s zeroing in on opponents or on NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for fining him. His target this weekend? Those trophies that children get simply for showing up and playing, to whatever degree of success. While he supports America’s trophy-manufacturing industries, they’re empty awards and Harrison went ham on the whole idea that someone would receive an award for not being the best, for not earning it.
Harrison wrote on Instagram:
“I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies! While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I’m sorry I’m not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I’m not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best…cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better…not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut up and keep you happy.” However you feel about this, Harrison’s message could not be clearer: “#harrisonfamilyvalues.”
Hilary Levey Friedman, a sociologist and author of “Playing to Win: Raising Children in a Competitive Culture,” told the Daily Beast last year that kids are even smarter than parents about the essential worthlessness of giving everyone a trophy. “The first trophy means something, even if it’s just a participation trophy. It’s very exciting, and all the kids I studied remembered the circumstances from the first trophy they got. But very quickly, these participation trophies lose their meaning unless it’s for a really big win.”
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/16/james-harrison-wont-let-his-kids-get-participation-trophies/?wprss=rss_sports
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FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Stupid idea by some adults who probably feel bad not rewarding everyone. It might help the silly adults feelings but they underestimate the children's intelligence.
big_dog
(4,144 posts)depends on the age and maturity level, imo
Warpy
(111,241 posts)where kids are recognized for showing up and working hard in practice. Older kids show up because they enjoy working hard in practice and don't need that kind of motivation.
Harrison is only partially right, probably because he's not raising his own kids when they're little. The first couple of years, before they get the point, they really need to be given tangible recognition of their hard work.
Ex Lurker
(3,812 posts)"second place is just the first place loser."
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that takes me back to high school ... I took second place in the 400 meters (440 yd dash, in my day).
I was so proud. I showed my Dad my trophy ... he loked at it and told me, "That makes you the best of the losers." It hurt my feelings; but, I made me work harder the next year ... I stopped smoking weed amd cut down on drinking.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Parents today don’t want their kids to feel any disappointment or sadness or deprivation. You might break the poor kid’s spirit! Oh the horror of the fee-fees!!!!!!
Bullshit.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)people's spirit. And for dogs sake, we should never again say "fee-fees!"
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)sadness, disappointment, and deprivation are all part of life. Better learned when young, don't you think?
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Sorry honey but you are a loser! Even if you thought that you ran your little heart out...life is full of sadness, disappointment and deprivation...that's what the millionaire pro football guy and some others say...too bad, so sad!
Ya...good luck with that explanation.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)When my daughters were 5-6 and running in field day events, they would proudly show me their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place ribbons. The "participation" ribbons were tossed on the floor of the car.
They know it's a bullshit thing, their friends and school mates know it's bullshit. Don't underestimate the intelligence of even young children.
Imajika
(4,072 posts)Kids know the difference. Participation trophies are feel-good nonsense.
Heck, kids figure this stuff out from video games these days real quickly. Sometimes, yes, you are a loser - and that is the incentive to try harder next time.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)that there is always someone smarter, someone richer, someone better connected, someone more beautiful/handsome and someone with more athleticism. It brings humility without a sense of failure .. and one is more likely to grow up not hating Hillary Clinton.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I’m not trying to be unfeeling, nor do I want to break spirits (I was being hyperbolic) but the way one’s spirit stays strong is when they overcome obstacles, tries hard and gets over one’s hurt fee-fees.
Fee-fee, fee-fee, FEE-FEE!!!!!!!
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Whatever you say.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)whatever sport his kids are playing, it's just a game. It doesn't really matter who wins. Participation actually is important.
Same with "life". It's no coincidence that this participation trophy non-troversy is a favorite topic on RW radio. They think the economy is a game, that they themselves have won and that poor people have lost. They think helping poor people is like giving them a participation trophy.
big_dog
(4,144 posts)that said, awarding trophies for actual achivements is most desireable. its probably not hard to come up with a best sportmanship awards etc.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)ended up with a ribbon of some kind. That felt right to me. We wanted to encourage the little ones to compete, but we nixed the trophy idea.
Tikki
(14,556 posts)We have an epidemic of childhood obesity in this Country....
For some children this is an important start.
How is a little trophy different than a pat on the back?
Tikki
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Just losing the weight is reward enough.
greymattermom
(5,754 posts)If you don't ever fail, you didn't reach high enough.
greymattermom
(5,754 posts)They will almost all get rejected from a college or get fired from a job. How will they deal with adult issues if they always got the trophy?
former9thward
(31,974 posts)Another thing they learn from their parents.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I got my ass handed to me on a pine platter replete with splinters. I was emancipated at 16. I had a boyfriend who beat me at 18. And I just kept picking myself up and trying harder and harder and harder.
Now I may not be a bazillionare, but I am a successful businesswoman, exceedingly well-adjusted, and have a wonderful husband.
The younger sister who was raised with the “participation trophy” mentality? Chronically unemployed, has a pretty bad (though in-check at present) drug addiction, has the worst entitlement mentality and breaks down whenever life hands her a “crisis” - - like running out of gas in a town full of gas stations. My friends kids are, for the most part, just the same. They cannot cope with life.
I’d rather have my ass kicked as a young person. NOTHING gets me down - not even my stupid MS! I can overcome or deal with anything thrown in my path because I have known disappointment and deprivation (the real kind - when I was 16 I was so malnourished my toenails fell off).
DinahMoeHum
(21,783 posts). . .and while I'd wholeheartedly support them learning various sports, I'd discourage them from real-stakes play for trophies until they reach their teens.
At the ages of single digits through 12, kids should be learning the fundamentals of their sports and have the opportunity to try out various sports. They should not be a feeder system for "kid's leagues", nor should they be the projection of their parent/s' past glory or frustration in sports.
4lbs
(6,855 posts)
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)When I won real trophies for achievement I displayed them prominently in my room.
Participation trophies were shoved into the back of my closet and forgotten.
swilton
(5,069 posts)Athleticism has its own rewards = physical fitness, trying hard even when you don't win among other features
I agree with him and think trophies should go away - not for the reasons he mentions - because they contribute to consumerism and having junk that ends up in a land fill.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I’d never considered that before but you’re right!
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...have accomplished. I'm happy with that.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)I'll be home posting on DU
SnakeEyes
(1,407 posts)We are talking about kids here. Nothing wrong with giving them a little participation trophy. NBD either way, but those I've seen strongly against them are right wingers typically ranting about how it's the fault of liberals. Which moves me to the pro-side a bit.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)It makes the kids feel entitled. Why do you think these college kids think they need to be making 6 figures and won't accept anything less. We did that to them.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)And adding to your point, why do college students think that by just showing up to class, they deserve an A.
Ahhhh, no. Not in my class. I don't care how special your mommy and daddy think (and told you) you are.
My mother busted my ass my whole life to reach for the stars. And so I worked my ass off to get what I wanted.
Imajika
(4,072 posts)My best teachers, the ones I remember, had your attitude - especially in classes that they knew I could excel in.
I can count on one hand the number of teachers that pushed me to do more, and I have them to thank for a lot of things I've achieved in life. Not that the rest were bad, most of my teachers were fine just not memorable (to me). Not every teacher can reach every kid, but I am thankful for the ones that got more out of me than I had planned to put in.
Thinking back, I really never had any bad teachers but many did kinda let me skate by. They weren't doing anything wrong, I was doing the required work - but not going above and beyond. I rather suspect those teachers may have reached other kids in those classes that needed more attention than me.
Having a flashback moment. Thinking back now, if I'd only listened to more of my teachers. A lot of wisdom wasted on my youth, makes me appreciate them all the more as I type.
Igel
(35,296 posts)I apparently didn't appreciate her wonderful skills on the drill squad and was failing her in science class. High school, where a C is basically a participation grade, however humiliating that is.
My response was simple and said to the entire class: There are 7 billion people on Earth. They are all unique, they are all special. I have no means of identifying those that are extra special, so they all get treated equally special for their uniqueness.
The girl glowed. Until one of the kids who wasn't getting a C (= 1970s F) said, "Doesn't that just mean we're all average?"
I said he was correct and resumed whatever I was trying to get the kids to understand.
The kids above average would be in the corresponding AP. Those who were really sub-average should be in Integrated Chemistry and Physics. I got the level kids, which is pretty much from about 1/2 st dev above the mean to a bit more than a standard dev below the mean.
SnakeEyes
(1,407 posts)I think there is zero cause-effect to a stupid participation trophy/award/ribbon or whatever and later sense of entitlement or anything else. I believe its extremely over exaggerated, and again is often the complaint from the right after liberals, that it has become a point of discussion when it shouldnt because it doesnt matter.
SnakeEyes
(1,407 posts)4lbs
(6,855 posts)Again I don't think it matters a hill of beans what you give a child and means nothing later.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)You don't get it. When you're raising small children it's about giving them experiences that help them bond with a community. When you make everything high stakes competitive, no one leaves happy. It's especially ten times more difficult for boys, since it's hard for geeky, gawky brainiacs to find common ground where too much attention is given to athletic prowess in young athletes because of the money makers they can provide to a high school.
Sometimes, youth programs should just remain vehicles for socializing and opportunities for exercise. All the jocks tend to jump ship to the travel teams early in life anyways.
24601
(3,959 posts)for Soccer, Swimming, T-Ball & Volleyball. They have long since gone out in the recycle because they were not based on accomplishment. What out daughter (now in College) did keep were two ribbons, for 8th & 10th place in the 2010 Junior Olympics. It's true that she didn't make the medal stand, but she did her best and those two ribbons still mean more to her than all the participation trophies combined.
She's not a world-class athlete. Her Senior year in High School, she was an alternate for the relay when her team went to state. Today, she competes within NCAA's Div III. But she does so for love of the sport, not to receive a trophy. More importantly, she doesn't confuse output with outcome and will graduate knowing that activity is not synonymous with accomplishment.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)a tremendous amount of time and money in a vast number of sports-related events, and trophies will pile up. For someone who is truly athletic, I don't think the participation trophies have any meaning to them in the long run because they DO collect so many. But that's something that they should decide on their own, and not a decision that should be made by some professional athlete.
But, whatever trophies are to the athletically inclined, they are critical as inducements to those kids who show no aptitude or desire for team sports.
This includes a higher percentage of children, and for them, sports events are missed opportunities to learn how to socialize with other children. If you don't get it right when they're young, they are bound to have huge social problems when they get older.
Pushing kids to excel at what they do best academically, without rounding them out socially can create problems for children after they graduate from college and enter jobs where it becomes harder to meet people their own age. If they never have the social experiences to develop skills to make friends easily, they can end up with depression and existential problems later in life.
So, if we parents are paying for those coaches and athletic programs, what we want for our lesser athletic kids is an opportunity to expand their social opportunities. Give them the trophies and let them decide for themselves when they're ready to trash them.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)" they are critical as inducements to those kids who show no aptitude or desire for team sports. "
From what I observed the kids tossed those things to the ground as soon as the parents weren't looking. The children are smarter than the adults give them credit for. They knew the participation ribbons were bullshit, their friends knew they were bullshit, their classmates knew they were bullshit.
The ribbons are more for the parents IMHO.
I've yet to see anything that proves your assumption that participation ribbons encourage lesser gifted kids, but if I'm willing to be educated. I'm only going by my experiences and observations as a parent and watching the kids.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)trophies is having friends who rub their trophies in their faces to remind them how inept and clumsy they are athletically.
Which of the two alternatives do you think will produce more participation in athletic activities?
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Nevermind, I thought you might have something scientific or a study.
If you really think kids can't see through participation trophies, I hope you never have children.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)What a horrible assumption you have made just because you can't accept another pov. We are talking about the development of children and I would rather see a dusty shelf full of participation trophies and a child who recognizes sports is just for recreational fun; than a kid who gives up by the age of twelve because overzealous coaches want the most competitive children on their teams.
What we need is to give our kids a healthy perspective about sports. And that isn't happening because competition is the prevailing purpose of sports in America. Our smart and perceptive children figure out that if you're not athletically capable by the age of twelve, you might as well do something else.
That's not what we should be teaching children. We should be fighting to keep them engaged in sports for as long as possible. Hopefully, until it becomes a lifetime routine.
Look, this goes both ways. I have seen very smart jocks walk away from gifted programs because they were afraid they would be ridiculed by their friends. And the sad truth is, they WILL be ridiculed by their friends.
So, even if a kid is perceptive enough to see what's going on, it doesn't mean that we should take the experience away from him.
Let's see if you can come up with something substantive instead of resorting to insulting statements.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I'm just looking for something that would make me change my point of view based on personal experience.
You are assuming these participation awards encourage children. I'm saying that isn't what I saw. In fact the kids are smart enough to know that when they get them, they considered them embarrassment trophies.
Go to any elementary school field day and the ground is littered with participant ribbons. The kids know they are BS awards. They aren't put on a shelf or worn with pride. I never talk down to children or try to play simple mind games with them like some adults because they are smarter and more perceptive than most adults realize.
I agree we should be encouraging children to be active, I personally believe participation ribbons/trophies don't do a thing and may be detrimental to that goal.
However, it's my opinion base on experience and I'm open to reading some studies on it.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)I think most sports programs are aware that there are two different sports tracks. One, competitive, and the other recreational. I don't think a professional athlete should be making decisions for children who are on the recreational track. His mindset is completely on a different wave length.
And, we are talking about inducements for young children. I doubt that a participation trophy will have any meaning to someone who is fourteen years of age. But, by that age, if he is still participating in recreational sports, I would call it a success.
And, btw, throwing this out to respond to another comment I read up thread: I have no personal experience with people who grew up with participation trophies going into college and expecting "A"s just for showing up. I doubt that such a correlation exists. Afterall, this would be counter to the argument that children are perceptive enough to understand that participation awards are bullshit. The two arguments contradict each other.
ripcord
(5,330 posts)Just a hint if you don't want the kids to know the score don't teach them to count.
lostnfound
(16,171 posts)Like Boy Scouts get.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Sports culture is just so toxic.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Sorry but your kids awards in local leagues are pretty much worthless, Harrison.
And so are you, Harrison. Seriously, what do add to the betterment of the human race? You don't solve world hunger or climate change by giving other people CTE.
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)as if it's dirty liberal socialism or something. Is that why you posted this story, which has no national importance whatsoever?
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)The most conservative, republican, religious parents didn't want their children's feelings to be hurt and demanded the participation ribbons.
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)He blames liberals of course.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)But from my experience, the liberal parents were the ones who were most accepting of the fact not everyone gets a trophy.
The conservative moms were the ones who acted like "don't you dare hand out trophies without including my child".
Rush doesn't live in reality.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Getting rewards or trophies just for "participation" is straight up bullcrap. IMO, you have to teach kids that failure or losing isn't the "end of the world", it should be encouragement to do better in the future and earn your win.
24601
(3,959 posts)Junior Varsity teams that developed skills for kids who would eventually play in High School. If you were a first team kind of player you earned a letter. The majority of us received a certificate for participation. In three years of Jr. High, I got six certificates.
I didn't letter until my junior year in High School. I had been wrestling since 8th grade and finally was Varsity. At the end of HS, I had three letters overall and was just average.
Our daughter worked a lot harder than I had. She earned seven letters in two sports and was a co-captain for her swim team, where she was a solid performer but not a real superstar. As an alternate on the relay team when they went to state, she didn't get to swim in the finals. She swims for her college, in Div III, where there are no athletic scholarships. It's because they love it and nobody there is going pro or to the Olympics. The sport she continued into College, swimming, was the one where she didn't letter as a Freshman.
The harder she has to work at it to succeed, the more meaningful it is.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I had a whole row of those little trophies I got for doing the Cancer Society bike-a-thon, can't remember if they bothered to put on your mileage, or you just got one as long as you rode.
Or what about all those cub scout badges? They were for 'participation'. You did something, you got a badge. You didn't do it, you didn't get a badge. You didn't compete to be 'the best' cub scout at making a fire or whatever, it was for learning a skill. You were 'competing' against your own ignorance, not against anyone else.
Teaching your children to 'compete' against other people is saying 'There are winners and losers, haves and have nots, and you want to be a 'have'. ' There's a better lesson to teach your kid - cooperation. When you work together, you achieve more than when you go solo.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)When you voluntarily play, and have played, on the same team as Big Ben the Rapist, I don't give a flying fuck what you think.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)They were around when my oldest (8 or 9 years old) started playing soccer and I was not in favor of them. When I went to sign him up they asked me which coach my son had played for before.
Told them this was his first time. Apparently, most kids went back to their previous coach while the new kids were put on a different team unless recruited by a particular coach. So, he went on the new kids' team which I ended up coaching because no adults had signed up to be the new kids' coach.
Our first practice I saw we were going to have a rough season. Of the 13 children present, none had experience, 2 had talent the rest were very un-gifted athletically and several were mentally challenged. Oh, and it was a mixed gender league with a minimum number of girls required on the field at all times. I had no problem with that because I'm not a d*ck and I needed every child on that team to participate, we had so few.
Anyway, we worked real hard at practice. Those kids and their parents gave it their all. I was so proud of the work these children put in and the way their parents supported them. Never any hollering or belittling or cajoling. Just good positive reinforcement and fun.
We tied one game and lost 9. Everyone got a trophy. Even me! The parents bought it for me. I handed out the trophies at our little party and made up a category for each one so they felt like they earned it. It was pretty obvious to them they didn't deserve one for coming in last place but if ever there was a group of children that earned a trophy despite never winning a game, it was these kids. Especially the young lady I presented a trophy to for Best Dandelion Necklace.
All trophies/awards should be earned and they can be earned in ways besides a victory.
